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A number of doctors aren't so sure about the benefits of wearables eithers. A recent MIT Technology Review story found doctors from a number of specialities unsure about what to do with the data many of their fitness-tracking patients are bringing them."Clinicians can't do a lot with the number of steps you've taken in a day," Neil Sehgal, a senior research scientist at UCSF Center for Digital Health Innovation said. Andrew Trister, an oncologist and researcher at Sage Bionetworks echoed this sentiment. "[Patients] come in with these very large Excel spreadsheets, with all this information," he said. "I have no idea what to do with that."
One of the short-term problems for trackers is that their [sic] not actually reliable enough to be medically useful. The sorts of measurements that devices cheap enough to be commercial products tend only to focus on vague metrics that could just as easily be inferred from a short interview or basic examination. While certain health trackers have shown promise—such as the small implants that manage insulin for diabetics—they can also produce a hyper-vigilance and paranoia, leading to a degenerative process of over-managing issues that a person's body is already handling.
Are there Soylentils that do use fitness trackers regularly? Do they help you manage your health?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday December 02 2015, @01:21PM
If they can't tell you what chemicals, nutrients, bacteria, and viruses are in your blood (without drawing blood), they are a waste of time.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:42PM
Even if they could, the information would only be useful if there was some way to treat the problem.
Looks like you have the JC, BK, and CMV viruses ... if you feel sick then we can help keep you comfortable and hope you don't die.
(Score: 2) by snick on Wednesday December 02 2015, @03:15PM
I _like_ doctors that practice medicine with stone knives and bearskins.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday December 02 2015, @04:15PM
I think there was even a recent story here which in part repeated the point in a slightly different way but with a US perspective. (Worded as fitness trackers helping "cure" arthritis, as they forced the patient to do the exercise that retards the degradation of the condition, IIRC. 1-2 months ago, I'd guess.)
They may not be particularly useful quantitatively, but qualitatively, they are.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Knowledge Troll on Wednesday December 02 2015, @01:28PM
A fad that isn't actually useful? Professionals are saying consumer selected devices don't actually do what the consumers thought they did? I can't understand how this can be. It uses the cloud doesn't it? Its got WiFi or bluetooth or something right? But I paid $300 for it and the box said it made me more healthy. Am I supposed to do something like just walk and not get a computer involved with it? No one before 2014 could lose weight, well known fact.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by slinches on Wednesday December 02 2015, @01:47PM
Do consumers think that fitness trackers are for medical data collection? I thought they were just a way to remind yourself to exercise. Kinda like a string tied to your finger that blinks when you're slacking on your workout routine.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:10PM
Do consumers think that fitness trackers are for medical data collection?
It would appear that enough do it that that both it is in the news and also you have made a comment on a discussion website about the same topic. I am pretty sure though that fitness trackers are primarily a way to advertise themselves on Facebook under the guise of showing your friends how healthy you are.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:47PM
Just because someone is "reporting" on it does not mean it is not a made up.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02 2015, @05:18PM
True, but it is a pretty good indication. A lot of journalists are really bad about understanding anything at all. That includes grammar and spelling, both of which are supposed to be important parts of their jobs.
(Score: 2) by physicsmajor on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:11PM
This is exactly the truth. Fitness trackers are useful a way to gamify your health, not as a way to rigorously/scientifically collect data. When and how much you exercise/sleep is useful to you; a badly measured heart rate is without value to anyone.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:24PM
> This is exactly the truth. Fitness trackers are useful a way to gamify your health, not as a way to rigorously/scientifically collect data.
More like the truth is somewhere between those two extremes and as the tools improve the medical value of the collected data will improve too.
(Score: 2) by richtopia on Wednesday December 02 2015, @03:03PM
My coworker had a "heart episode" (pains similar to an attack, but no real evidence in the hospital of anything wrong beyond high cholesterol). His doctor actually prescribed him a fit bit. I suspect the doctor doesn't actually look at the data, but it does help my coworker maintain a level of activity every day.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday December 03 2015, @12:03AM
I thought they were just a way to remind yourself to exercise.
That's what I thought too, so I installed an app on my phone which counts steps every day. As I walk about 4 KMs a day during the week it nags me like hell in the weekend when I'm sitting on my arse watching TV and drinking beer.
Makes me feel guilty, which I guess is the point.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02 2015, @01:35PM
I hate doctors, but even I can see how exasperating it would be to have patients come in with gobs of "data" collected with cheap-ass bullshit gizmo, second-guessing the doc's judgement. You have 15-minute visit window, and spend ten of those trying to parse out what the fuck the dope brought in.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:00PM
I am not a fan of personal trackers, but your criticism misses the point.
The problem isn't the data. The problem is a lack of tools to analyze it. The companies selling trackers need to step up and put together tools for doctors. They need to do it consultation with both research and real practicing doctors so that the tools are actually fit for purpose.
If they are really smart about it, they will work together to come up with a set of common, open-source tools that work with the data from all of the different brands of trackers. But that's probably asking too much, data silos look so much more profitable to the typical short term thinker calling the shots in big business.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:34PM
The more likely outcome will be that each and every vendor will try to rope Doctors into having to pay large sums for analytical software that only analyzes data from it's brand of fitness tracker that they will be locked into using via DRM and won't be able to circumvent thanks to the DMCA provisions.
Then the open source community will find a solution that will work some of the time, but won't be adopted by the medical community because there won't be any turn key solutions and not many want to become Guinea pigs for the open source community in that profession, too much "risk"
(Score: 2) by snick on Wednesday December 02 2015, @03:13PM
Nope. The doctors will get the analytical software for free, and be incented to get _all_ their patients to buy the gizmo that goes with the doctor's software.
Open source won't even be considered because open source doesn't have sales reps.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday December 02 2015, @04:09PM
Which data are useful? Does your doctor really need to know you walked 10,000 steps a day?
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(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday December 02 2015, @04:21PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by Nollij on Thursday December 03 2015, @03:35AM
It could be. It isn't necessarily, but there are a number of possibilities.
For instance: You appear to have a condition that only shows up in sedentary people.
Since you have the data to confirm that this isn't the case, he might look into other possibilities.
The problem with this, however, is there is incentive to cheat this system too. My previous employer gave these out free on their wellness plan, with incentives for walking X steps per day.
Most people realize they could just spin it around their fingers. A few hooked them to ceiling fans, etc.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 03 2015, @02:21AM
No, the data is in fact completely worthless. There is no tool that can create signal out of random noise.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02 2015, @01:35PM
Probably not a useful format. Do most doctors know how to explore datasets or even have computers capable of fitting this into memory? In my experiance most clinical researchers barely know how to use excel.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by rob_on_earth on Wednesday December 02 2015, @01:56PM
I would also hope the Doctors are unwilling to insert a random USB key into their machines. Most of the UK doctors I have visited in the last couple of years were running XP
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:23PM
Also, even if doctors know how to, they almost never have time to - they typically get at most about 20 minutes per patient for routine stuff.
Here's basically what a doctor would probably like to know about your exercise habits:
1. Do you have a regular exercise routine?
2. If so, what sorts of exercises does it include (aerobics, team sports, martial arts, running, weight lifting, etc)?
3. Are you experiencing any kind of chronic pain or strain after your exercise routine?
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:51PM
Exactly. A doctor will ask their patient how much exercise and what type they are doing. They can lie to the doctor, but why?
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday December 02 2015, @04:18PM
Because they're human.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by quixote on Thursday December 03 2015, @02:01AM
Tie it to the kitten. Everybody's happy.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday December 03 2015, @10:14AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by engblom on Wednesday December 02 2015, @01:55PM
The only equipment I am using for tracking my fitness is a normal old fashion watch with a rotating bezel for timing myself and the bathroom scale for checking my weight.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fadrian on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:08PM
Do you really want your doctor wasting his time with your noisy, and, in the end, anecdotal data (usually not presented in a form that's clinically useful) as a primary source for his or her analysis of you? It's all going to end up as a single checkbox on a lifestyle form (denoting "Patient exercises regularly") in a chart, anyway. I'd rather they'd spend their time getting a decent verbal patient history and actually examining me any day than spending their time trying to upload data or read a clinically dubious report from a stupid consumer device.
That is all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:08PM
Graph the data on a time series?
Perhaps even attempt some correlation here and there?
I know they are doctors, but they can ask their nurses to help them put something together after they finish their shoelace tying practice.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by snick on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:27PM
Would require years of data to be useful. Even then, the information would be "he seems to be slowing down" or some other vague trend. Any abrupt change could easily be identified without data tracking.
So, evidently the plural of anecdote _is_ data?
A non-statistician with a spreadsheet is scarier than a software engineer with a screwdriver.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:32PM
I was a quant for a decade before transitioning to software development you insensitive clod!
Seriously, doctors are usually attached to a hospital or clinic with analysts who can do something with this stuff. and uniformly collected data points or not anecdotes...they are data.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by snick on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:52PM
Sure the spreadsheet is data. I was referring to the "attempt some correlation here and there"
Worked out an extra 10 minutes on Monday ... had a heart attack on Tuesday. Well, it is obvious from the data that those 10 minutes were what did you in!
The amount of data needed (about everything going on in your life, not just your exercise) to make useful correlations would be enormous.
I suppose if you tracked your sleep, what and how much you ate (and when), your exact liquid intake, weighed and analyzed your ... waste, measured your stress, as well as your exposure to allergens chemicals and irritants ... better keep track of the ambient temperature and pressure in your environment while you are at it... and noise, don't forget the prolonged exposure to noise. With all that information tracked over a long enough baseline, PLUS your fitbit records, there might be something that data analysis can do. But I'm probably forgetting several important indicators that would also need tracking.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by snick on Wednesday December 02 2015, @02:33PM
I used to track my exercise religiously, and had it all automagically going to a spreadsheet in the cloud that I could gloat over.
It wasn't useful for anything other than motivating me. Once I found a form of exercise that I liked to do for its own sake (not because it was good for me) I ditched the tracking and just enjoyed what I was doing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02 2015, @03:01PM
I've used a Wii Fit meter (until it fell in the toilet!). I really enjoyed it. It tracked my steps, it measured altitude changes and related them to steps to tell when you were walking up stairs (and burning more calories) rather than just riding an escalator. Its primary use was as a motivator. You set a weight loss goal, it calculated how many calories per day you'd need to burn to meet that goal, then it tracked it for you. I can't speak to its accuracy, but it was a nice motivator. Plus, in true Nintendo style, they tied various rewards to meeting certain goals which added extra motivation in the same way as one obsessing over an Angry Birds level because they want to get three stars on it.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Wednesday December 02 2015, @03:42PM
One of those wrist bands was last years x-mas gift at a friends office. He showed it to me, it could sync to your phone and it had this little app with graphs and stuff telling you how much more you needed to move in that day and such. From what I know most people stopped using them after a month or so, I guess the entertainment value sort of dropped off. The most amusing thing about it was that a lot of people got minor amounts of "physical exercise" very late in the evenings (minor amounts of movement, increased heart beats ...). All kept track of by your watch. There was some laughing and jokes about that. They stopped sharing information with each other after they found that one out.
That said I really don't know what one would do with that data either. Data from just that one person probably won't be that useful. Sure you can see that they exercise, move about a bit or get enough sleep and I guess that is all good but beyond that it really doesn't provide anything useful. You could just ask them for that information (do you get enough sleep and do you exercise?). Perhaps it could be interesting if you had ALL the data gathered from everyone or a very large sample of people. Then you might be able to do something with it. But at the same time people that use these things are going to be people that are already into training and exercise already. Most couch potatoes or average people sort of give it up fairly soon or don't even bother with it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02 2015, @03:47PM
The data by itself does little.
I personally use it to motivate me.
I can also use it to say 'oh wait if I eat that I go over my goal'.
The graphs are kinda interesting and show me if I need to change anything.
AND once again I am trying to cut sugar out AGAIN. Cola and snacks are just too tempting. Last week was horrible for me. But I am back at it again. Dont break the chain is the biggest part of that. The monitoring helps remind you to not break the chain.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Wednesday December 02 2015, @03:53PM
As noted I think it could work as a motivator for you, or a person that is into fitness and exercise. But from a medical standpoint I don't see what a doctor could use it for in a diagnostic sort of way (he can see you slept for x hours and that you took y steps some day). It just won't tell him that you got the flue, except that you probably start to move less and sleep more - but you could also just be lazy.
(Score: 1) by purpleland on Wednesday December 02 2015, @07:01PM
If you are interested in taking care of yourself, get an annual physical from an internist every year, and scan/keep a record of your blood test results. Even better to slap it into a spreadsheet so you can look at trends. If you see your bad cholesterol go up a little every year, perhaps you should rethink your diet and not wait till it is flagged as unhealthy. Slowly learn about all the different tests and what they mean. Also keep in mind different labs have different criteria about what is good or bad, so it helps to pay some attention to anything borderline.
And if you jog/run for exercise you might want to find another activity that won't result in knee and feet problems when you reach your forties.
(Score: 1) by tftp on Wednesday December 02 2015, @11:46PM
I got the UP24 more than a year ago, and it got upgraded to UP2 a couple months ago. They all do the same thing: they report to me how much exercise I performed every day. Jawbone trackers also record the sleep (phases and duration), and the software tracks the food that one eats. The weight is also recorded, but you have to measure it yourself. All in all, it is a convenient package. The doctor does not need to have any of that data, unless you complain about the diet. The device is useful only to motivate yourself and to keep track of your progress. Without a tracker you could walk to the store and back and say "that's about 10,000 steps, so I'm done for the day." The tracker will honestly tell you that you walked only 3,200 steps and you need to walk a bit more to get to the number that you selected. Every engineer knows that you cannot control a process if you cannot measure it. The fitness band is the measurement tool. The control is still in your head.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Thursday December 03 2015, @01:55AM
Fitness trackers actually provide a benefit in the form of the placebo effect. It's a pretty expensive and time-consuming benefit though, which could be replaced and eclipsed if you have the willpower to push yourself to exercise every day.
A fitness tracker might make you walk an extra few hundred steps every day, but that's still no replacement for a regular half-hour of jogging every day.
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