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Many Americans agree and are stocking up on weapons after the country's worst mass shooting in three years. Gun retailers are reporting surging sales, with customers saying they want to keep handguns and rifles at hand for self-defense in the event of another attack.
"Everyone is reporting up, every store, every salesman, every distributor," said Ray Peters, manager of Range, Guns & Safes, a company that sells firearms and safes in Atlanta with an indoor firing range. "People are more aware of the need to protect themselves."
[...] Gun sales were already on the rise this year. On Black Friday, the popular shopping day on Nov. 27 after the U.S. Thanksgiving Day holiday, a total of 185,345 applicants were processed through the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System, a 5.5 percent increase from the year before.
The Pew Research Center found last December that 57 percent of Americans say they believe owning a gun helps protect people from crime, up from 48 percent in 2012. The rest said owning a gun would put personal safety at risk.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:39AM
Boo! You cowardly Americans. You ought to be more ashamed than afraid. Behind you! Terrorist! Ted Cruz! OMG!!!
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:47AM
There's a lot of words I'd use for what's happening, and a lot of them are derogatory, but I don't know if cowardly is really one of them in this instance.
I just found out that my grandparents are leaving me the antique family firearms. A lot of that is centered around the fact that I'm the only one who lives in a state that won't make this a big deal and I'm the least likely to immediately go fence them for drug money. I don't honestly know how I feel about it. Most of them can't fire modern ammo, so they're not very useful from a practical point of view and I don't really have a strong opinion about personally owning weapons myself. Tell me internet, how should I feel?
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:00AM
Ashamed! How dare you harbor weapons of death, even if they have no effective ammo! But really, feel honored to be given a set of treasured items. The whole "big deal" is just another way to keep people afraid, THE TERRORISTS ARE RIGHT NEXT TO YOU! Which in some sense they are, but freaking out about it does little good. All the people buying weapons, how much good will it do them at the grocery store or coffee shop where they are not allowed to carry them? At least I don't think Cali has concealed carry... and even if it did what % would apply for it and actually carry their weapon daily?
Stupid.
The better solution is for everyone to grow a backbone like people have done on airlines and just mob the asshole shooting a place up. People will get shot, probably some die, but it will send a message to anyone trying that shit out. They will get hammered down, there will be no escape, and the jerkoff will be lucky to stay alive while being disarmed. Suddenly the idea of being some vessel of vengeance will be less appealing when they know that everyone around them will lay the smack down. Shoot a few people, then its curtains which may be opened to a long long LONG public shaming.
Wanna be a real protester? Go the buddhist monk route.... People take you more seriously when you calmly light YOURSELF on fire...
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:06AM
Well, I'm pretty sure I could hand load rounds for it. I have zero problems with it really, but it is strange to me that France, of all the places, basically announces they're going to war over this, and we Chamberlain it and the internet gets edgy over the fact that people have a different opinion.
For what it's worth, I was genuinely impressed with how France handled their situation. I've never really subscribed to the strong sense of fear that appears to be a thing in this country, but this bullshit does need to be put down hard when it actually happens.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @01:12PM
Of course you meant continued being at war - France was bombing ISIS already. The terrorist attack was a response. Or maybe they just hate us for our freedoms?
French planes have carried out air strikes on Islamic State (Isis) targets in Iraq.
Less than 24 hours after President François Hollande announced he had approved a request from the government in Baghdad for air support, at least two French Rafale planes attacked the insurgents' positions.
A statement from Hollande's office read: "This morning, at 9.40am, our Rafale aircraft carried out a first attack against a logistics centre of the terrorist organisation Daesh [Isis] in the north-east of Iraq. The target was hit and entirely destroyed. Other operations will be carried out in the days to come."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/19/france-bombs-isis-depot-iraq-islamic-state [theguardian.com]
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Sunday December 13 2015, @03:38AM
For what it's worth, I was genuinely impressed with how France handled their situation. I've never really subscribed to the strong sense of fear that appears to be a thing in this country, but this bullshit does need to be put down hard when it actually happens.
The difference is that the attack in France was apparently planned and carried out by members connected to ISIS, while the San Bernardino attack was carried out by a couple of unaffiliated deluded idiots.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:05AM
Be afraid! Be very afraid! Avoid smokeless powder in "damascus welded" shotgun barrels. Other than that, they should function just fine. The point is, you are not acquiring weapons because you are peeing your pants that ISIS might attack you next. And they probably will. Happened with me. I was worried about Tiger attacks, so this guy sold me a magic stone that prevents Tiger attacks. Ever since I started carrying "snuggums" every day as part of my everyday tactical carry, I have not once been attacked by a Tiger. So I suggest you go get an anti-Tiger attack rock. The Assault Anti-Tiger Attack Rocks are better, since they are painted non-reflective black, which helps keep off the Tigers, and they have the capability to take extended Anti-Tiger Magazines, which is more effective in the event of a multiple Tiger incident. And of course, the "Tactical" model comes with bayonet lugs, for when Tiger attacks get real.
The price of freedom is eternal paranoia.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:17AM
Well, there were a couple I think, but the one I'm aware of was a hammerless... I want to say, .38 revolver that came from some 100-125 years ago. A relative worked as a railway agent and left that along with a pocketwatch that also came with the job. The watch is broken, and I have it now. Been meaning to get it repaired, but I'm an unreliable asshole and I don't want it to go any further away from me than some place I can show up in person and get in someone's face about it, and there's not many REAL watch repair places in St. Louis, which is a little surprising.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Francis on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:29AM
I'd definitely call it cowardly. It's one thing to start packing a sidearm in response to a specific threat and quite another to start packing because there's a possibility that somebody else will have one and use it for violent purposes.
A large part of why these sorts of crimes have become so common is because the country is awash with weapons that have no legitimate peaceful use. Most of these weapons are not ones that are used for hunting, they're ones that are designed and intended to be used on other people. People bring them into their own homes where they may or may not be adequately secured and a sufficient number of them wind up in the hands of people that shouldn't have them.
If you've been paying any attention at all, the argument against fixing the gun violence problem is mostly based upon unjustifiable fear. There's a ton of fear about rare events like the CA terrorist mass murder. Whereas the more justified fear of the much more common gun related deaths gets largely ignored. Suicide and just regular murder are much more common problems than terrorism and mass murder are, but that's not where the focus is.
When it comes down to it, most of the people running around armed shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a firearm as they're already paranoid and easily frightened. Apart from an actual terrorist or mentally ill person, it's hard for me to come up with anybody that I'd be less comfortable have armed as they're already running low on judgment and critical reasoning skills.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @11:21AM
I know three people who have used handguns to protect themselves from attackers (muggers, possibly rapist in one case). None of them had to actually fire their weapons; just showing that they were able to defend themselves caused their attackers to flee.
None of the three reported the incidents to the police, since they lived in urban areas that ignore the Constitutional Right to keep and bear arms. I suspect that most such incidents never make it in to the statistics.
The anti-gun lobby would have, if they had been able, forced all three to just put up with being mugged, raped and possibly murdered.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday December 12 2015, @05:48PM
Oh, but obviously they were cowards to be prepared to defend themselves. /s
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @06:07PM
If you have time to show of a gun you have time to stab the with a knife.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:23PM
There you go, demonstrating your ageist, ableist, male privilege. The great thing about the modern firearm is it the single greatest contributor to equality ever invented. I'd even go so far as to say there would have never even been a general movement to civil rights and equality for all without it. Without the gun you have the strong who do as they will and the weak who must obey. At best you have codes of chivalry to encourage the strong to protect the weak but that doesn't lead to equality.
(Score: 2) by Fnord666 on Sunday December 13 2015, @03:57AM
God made men, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Saturday December 12 2015, @02:29PM
the argument against fixing the gun violence problem is mostly based upon unjustifiable fear
The problem is that if there is any entity to which we all have to justify ourselves, then we are all in extreme danger. The danger posed by such a situation is far, far worse than the danger posed by gun violence.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:24PM
I take it you don't think much of the courts or the rule of law.
Says you.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday December 12 2015, @06:28PM
Look -
People don't buy guns because they are afraid of terrorist threats.
They buy them before hysterical gun-grabbers and Democrat fools in government make guns and ammo more expensive and difficult to get.
This is why gun-grabbing sissy Whites and fifth-columnist Whites within the Democrat party are indirectly making more and more people gun-owners.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:38PM
I might agree with you except that gun and ammo sales always seem to spike immediately after some sort of mass shooting or terrorist incident. That suggests to me that this is largely driven by hysteria over terrorism.
And this assertion is in direct contradiction to the facts. Despite calls by the President on down for more gun control there is really no meaningful legislation on the horizon. And, if I recall correctly, the last time lawmakers in Colorado even tried for modest reform, they were thanked for their efforts by recall elections which removed them from office.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday December 13 2015, @12:27AM
" That suggests to me that this is largely driven by hysteria over terrorism. "
It happens after every mass-shooting, like Sandy Hook, which wasn't considered "terrorism." There may be a small percentage of people who buy out of terrorism or social unrest fears but the real reason most people buy is because everytime there's a mass-shooting the likelihood of increasing the difficulty of buying weapons and ammo increases, legislated or not, one reason of which is because there's a lot of panic-buying with ammo which of course drives up its cost.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2015, @07:45PM
You don't just "fix" people. People are afraid, you don't "fix" the fear. That's why I work in the physical world, and not the psycho-babble world. I can measure, cut, weld, nail, bolt, or otherwise "fix" things. Nothing gets measurably "fixed" in the psycho world. And, if anyone were to try to "fix" me, I would get very belligerent about it.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:47PM
We've been wishing Jews a "Merry Christmas" for about 2000 years. They don't shoot, bomb, or behead us in response.
Apparently you've never heard of the Jewish Defense League (JDL), an american domestic terror group that's killed 7 people among many attacks and were stopped from bombing california congressman Darrel Issa. [latimes.com]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:12PM
So, I read your article, expecting to find that one or more Jews had attacked Christians. That's not what I find, at all. I find that a couple Jews plotted to blow up a mosque, and to kill a couple other fellow Jews, in a bid for political supremacy.
My quote states that Jews don't kill Christians for such inoffensive bullshit as wishing them a 'Merry Christmas'.
"killed 7 people among many attacks"
Muslims kill dozens of people with every attaack. Well, except those two incompetent boobs who came to Texas to stage an attack. They didn't kill anyone at all, if I recall correctly. Damn - sounds like a good reason for people to be armed. Those two jihadists met an armed man, and they died.
EVERYONE!! GET A WEAPON!! GET 'EM QUICK BEFORE THEY'RE ALL CONFISCATED BY THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT!
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:20PM
My quote states that Jews don't kill Christians for such inoffensive bullshit as wishing them a 'Merry Christmas'.
And neither have any muslims. But consistently applied logic is not your forte so you go ahead and take a gimme on that! Hole in one for you!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:55PM
Muslims will kill you for being gay.
http://www.cp24.com/world/islamic-state-executes-gays-in-syria-to-demonstrate-ideological-purity-1.2682899 [cp24.com]
Muslims will kill you for going to church.
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/muslim.militants.burning.of.churches.persecution.of.christians.in.indonesia.spurred.by.imams.jihad.order/70601.htm [christiantoday.com]
Muslims will kill you for going to school.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/04/asia/afghanistan-schoolgirls-acid-attack/ [cnn.com]
Muslims will kill you for worshipping the wrong god.
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/12/11/yazidis-face-genocide-at-hands-of-islamic-state [torontosun.com]
Muslims will kill you for not worshipping any god.
https://news.vice.com/article/trapped-between-murder-and-repression-life-as-an-atheist-blogger-in-bangladesh [vice.com]
Muslims will kill you for celebrating Christmas.
http://www.todayonline.com/world/asia/1500-police-officers-guard-indonesian-churches-during-holidays [todayonline.com]
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @12:17AM
And Christians will do all those things too. [wikipedia.org]
Right? If one christian did it, then all christians will do it because they are christian right? That is how it works, isn't it?
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @02:17AM
Christians will kill you for being gay.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-23331832 [bbc.com]
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/21/ugandan-paper-gay-people-hanged [theguardian.com]
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/27/ugandan-gay-rights-activist-murdered [theguardian.com]
Christians will kill you for going to mosque.
http://www.ibtimes.com/nigerian-christians-attack-mosque-can-country-divided-stand-393688 [ibtimes.com]
http://www.globalpost.com/article/6618021/2015/07/17/violent-christian-mob-attack-muslims-doing-eid-prayer-indonesias-papua [globalpost.com]
Christians will kill you for going to school.
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-06-29/news/mn-5071_1_injures-bombing-bus [latimes.com]
http://english.cri.cn/6966/2009/04/30/1361s480281.htm [english.cri.cn]
Christians will kill you for going to a night club and the olympics
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/06/us/eric-robert-rudolph---fast-facts/ [cnn.com]
Christians will kill you for worshiping the wrong god.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html [washingtonpost.com]
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/mayweb-only/5-3-32.0.html [christianitytoday.com]
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/a-preventable-massacre.html [nytimes.com]
http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/may/17/delhi-sleeps-while-manipur-burns.htm [rediff.com]
Christians will kill you for not worshipping any god.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140714230115/http://www.humanite.fr/node/4317 [archive.org]
Christians will kill you for celebrating Christmas.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2009/01/17/dr-congo-lra-slaughters-620-christmas-massacres [hrw.org]
What's the point of all this?
Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people.
(Score: 2) by Ezber Bozmak on Sunday December 13 2015, @02:48AM
Christians torture and kill thousands of pre-teens for money
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.theobserver [theguardian.com]
It doesn't get any more despicable than that.
Game Over Man. Game Fucking Over.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 13 2015, @07:02AM
Nigeria, man. Nigeria. Most of those people are less Christian than the Mexicans, who worship two different sets of saints. They keep the Christian saints in the front room, and they keep the old Azteca death cult idols in the back room. Some Mexicans don't even keep their death cult idols in the back room, they show their idols openly. But, Nigeria. EVERYONE worships their little idols in the open.
No, Nigeria isn't Christian. Nor are those "evangelical preachers" Christian.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @02:34PM
Bad christians are not real christians, but bad muslims are real muslims.
No true scotsman to the rescue!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 13 2015, @02:44PM
Nigeria. Much of Africa is composed of superstitious tribals. Nothing in Christianity suggests that children are evil, possessed, or demonic. That kind of crap comes straight out of tribal animist religions. You're confusing Christianity with other religions. Could that be, perhaps, because you are ignorant of religion? Is religion just some bogeyman, on which you can blame all the world's ills?
I've tried to make it clear, even IF all religions are wrong, all religions are not created the same. You should really take a class on comparative religion.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @03:11PM
> That kind of crap comes straight out of tribal animist religions.
What? You think Christianity doesn't have a long history with witchcraft? Never heard of the salem witch trials?
You should take a course in logic. You keep pounding that scotsman fallacy.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 13 2015, @03:19PM
Christianity is ANTI-witchcraft. Sacrificing babies for whatever purpose is more akin to paganism and witch craft than it is to Christianity. The more you say, the more obvious that you really know nothing about religion. You are incapable of determining where various ritualistic practices came from, making you incapable of holding an intelligent discussion on the subject.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @03:34PM
> Christianity is ANTI-witchcraft.
Wow, the denial in you is strong. I'm curious what happened in your brain when you read the words "Salem witch trials" did you temporarily black out?
Here is some more black-out drugs for you:
Exodus 22:18 - Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Leviticus 20:27 - A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them
It is even funnier that you keep accusing me of knowing nothing about religion. You don't even know your own scripture. Which is actually not surprising, fundies of all religions are the ones with the least knowledge about their own religion.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 13 2015, @03:42PM
Salem witch trial - a group of rural fools who allowed their superstitions to get the better of them, and they took their frustrations out on members of the community. The "witch trials" were investigated, and condemned, by the church. The country bumpkins ASSumed authorities which weren't theirs to exercise.
No church endorsed that witch hunt.
Run along and play now, you're growing tiresome.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @03:48PM
> The "witch trials" were investigated, and condemned, by the church
You seriously think the salem witch trials were an isolated event?
That shit happened all over europe and the new world. [wikipedia.org]
> Run along and play now, you're growing tiresome.
That cognitive dissonance really takes the energy out of you doesn't it?
It is so hard having to deny what's right in front of you -- your religion is just as shitty as all the others.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 13 2015, @03:52PM
ROFLMAO - I'll give you a taste of that "cognitive dissonance". Remember the last time I locked you in that round room, and told you to pee in the corner? You would still be walking in circles looking for the corner if Mom hadn't told me to let you out.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @03:56PM
Let the record show, runaway is running away from the debate because the facts are overwhelmingly against him.
Fucking coward.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 13 2015, @04:23PM
Debate? What debate? First, you have to acquire some knowledge with which to debate.
Don't go into the old testament and dredge up the "Law". You dig right into the new testament, and find someplace where human sacrfice is condoned. Find where Christ commanded that witches be put to death. Try to find where Christ or his apostles informed us that AIDS could be cured by having sex with a virgin. Find where Christ commanded that adultresses should be put to death. You can't find any of that stuff. If you make the effort, you can find some of that in the OLD TESTAMENT. You can certainly find it in the Quran. And, you'll find a bunch of that, and even crazier shit in animist religions, which proliferate in Africa.
If you want to debate Christianity's merits side-by-side with other religions, you've got to get into the book, and debate Christianity. No Easter holiday, no Christmas holiday, no animal sacrifice, no human sacrifice - if you wish to debate anything, pick the subject, then STAY on subject.
Otherwise, I'm locking you in that round room again.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @04:28PM
> Don't go into the old testament and dredge up the "Law".
Dodge and weave man. You claimed the origins were in animism, clearly not true, the origins are in the old testament.
You show where Jesus said "suffer a witch to live." He didn't.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 15 2015, @04:49PM
If you're a believer, and you believe that Adam and Eve came first, then yes, Judaism preceded animism.
If, however, you're more into science, I believe the case has been made that animism, among other religions, preceded Judaism. Baal, among others, is referenced by some of the oldest of the old testament prophets and judges.
As for Christianity, we didn't inherit any "occult" teachings from the Jews. Instead, we borrowed stupid things like easter bunnies and Christmas trees and All Hallowed's Night from pagan religions.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 2) by etherscythe on Tuesday December 15 2015, @04:36PM
Really? I think I see what you're getting at, but on its face I think that "Original Sin" doctrine does say that children are evil by default, possessed by the sin of Adam and Eve. They have to be baptized and brainwashed in a belief they most likely have no compelling evidence for (which they have witnessed personally) to become worthy of first-class citizen status.
Of course, not all Christian sects believe this the same way, but it's an extremely popular religious theory. Religion is not the base cause of the world's problems, but I would say that it is an enabler for the avoidance of critical and progressive thinking. I like freedom of religion, but it needs to be removed as an excuse for failure to face reality.
"Fake News: anything reported outside of my own personally chosen echo chamber"
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday December 15 2015, @04:53PM
"for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"
Yes, there is the original sin, but there is also the "age of accountability". That age is hard to pin down - some put it as young as 8, others put it after puberty. Children sin, but they aren't held accountable until they reach that hard-to-define magical age. Thus, all children are innocent.
We could just agree that the first time the little bastid gets a woody, we hold him accountable. ;^)
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday December 12 2015, @05:45PM
I just found out that my grandparents are leaving me the antique family firearms.......Tell me internet, how should I feel?
You should feel like you are going to get your hands on a chunk of history. Some people like to collect old computers and keep them running just to see the old gear still alive and to spend some time on a hobby. Guns that old are neat machines and a part of history. That's how I'd feel about getting a load them handed to me.
Sounds like will not be useful for anything aside from looking at, learning about, cleaning, and maybe shooting for pure enjoyment.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Sunday December 13 2015, @02:59AM
Yeah, that's kinda where I'm at right now I think. The pistol is a legitimate work of art. I haven't laid eyes on the others, but I know there's at least two of them. Maybe three. Loading them is interesting because from what I understand, and I'm not a gun buff, but I don't think they can use modern ammo, so any firing would probably need to be with hand loaded rounds. I think I'm up for that, and would love to give it a shot, but it'll require tools that I don't think any of us have at the present.
I dunno. My dad might actually get them first, though that wasn't what I was told. Mom isn't exactly the most mentally stable, so if he gets them first I'm probably going to buy them a nice safe with the recommendation that the combination is kept from her.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:49AM
Ask not whether Obama Cares for you, ask how you and your gun can serve your Obama. You love Our Troops, now be one of Our Troops. Don't just Thank A Veteran, enlist today, so you can become a Veteran tomorrow.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:54AM
So nobody blinks twice when Christian terrorists murder a bunch of innocent people at Planned Parenthood because some people dare to exert their fundamental human right of self-sovereignty to do things they disagree with, but some non-Christians murder a few people and everybody flips their lids? Fucking bigots. How about you treat everybody the same and react to each act of terrorism the same instead of blowing one way out of proportion because their religion is different than yours and ignoring the other because their religion is the same as yours?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:29AM
How dare you be intolerant of intolerance, you fucking bigot.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Sir Finkus on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:59AM
Lots of people are flipping their lids about the Planned Parenthood shooting. Arguably not as many as those upset about Islamic terrorism, but it's hardly a fringe opinion.
Frankly, I don't believe being "bigoted" against any religion is a problem. When it comes down to it, religion is a choice and it should be treated the same way any political opinion is. Fair game for ridicule and criticism.
Join our Folding@Home team! [stanford.edu]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @02:10PM
Lots of people are flipping their lids about the Planned Parenthood shooting.
Hardly. Name one politician calling for the registration and profiling of christians. Meanwhile 25% of the US supports that for muslims. [nbcnews.com]
Frankly, I don't believe being "bigoted" against any religion is a problem. When it comes down to it, religion is a choice and it should be treated the same way any political opinion is. Fair game for ridicule and criticism.
That's a cop out. Bigotry is by definition inaccurate criticism. An opinion is not just a right, it is a responsibility. When someone chooses to ignore their responsibility in order to indulge their inner asshole that is absolutely a problem because when enough people do that it corrodes our society.
Definition of bigot: [merriam-webster.com]
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2015, @07:53PM
"Name one politician calling for the registration and profiling of christians."
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6860/indonesian-christian-churches [gatestoneinstitute.org]
Here, in your sheltered life in the United States, Christian churches aren't registered.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:30PM
It says a lot that you had to go to the other side of the planet in order to come up with that.
Looks like you were desperate to runaway from the question.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:40PM
Says a lot? It says a lot that you are incapable of understanding events in this world today. Christians around the world are persecuted, along with Hindus, Jews, Paganists, atheists, and so many more - and progressives refuse to hear about it. Instead, they side with the religion which is responsible for most of that persecution.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:58PM
In a discussion about Americans stocking up on weapons and american political rhetoric you have nothing to say about american policies.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:26PM
San Bernardino says enough. Despite being located in a socialist fascist state, San Bernardino is very American, and very political today. Islam is not American.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:33PM
> San Bernardino says enough.
And there we have it - as far as runaway is concerned a sample size of one is definitive proof. Bookmarked because that logic is fucking gold.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:47PM
Can't even count when the numbers are extremely simple. There were TWO terrorists workng on that massacre, not one. What - you discounted one of them because she was female? Now who's the bigot?
Or, is it your contention that there has only been one jihadist attack in America? That wouldn't even be an inability to count - that would be outright dishonesty.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:57PM
> There were TWO terrorists workng on that massacre, not one.
That's it? Your best argument is that two people working together on one attack counts as two attacks.
Ok bucko, I'll give it to you, a sample size of two. That changes everything! EVERYTHING!!!!!
Have you been drinking again?
(Score: 5, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:19PM
And, apparently, you've been living under a rock for the past few years.
Date Country City/State Killed Injured Description
4/14/1972 USA New York, NY 1 3 Ten members of a local mosque phone in a false alarm and then ambush responding officers, killing one.
1/19/1973 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 1 Muslim extremists rob a sporting goods store for weapons, gunning down a police officer who responds to the alarm.
7/1/1973 USA Bethesda, MD 1 0 An Israeli diplomat is gunned down in his driveway by Palestinian terrorists.
7/18/1973 USA Washington, DC 8 2 Nation of Islam members shoot seven members of a family to death in cold blood, including four children. A defendant in the case is later murdered in prison on orders from Elijah Muhammad.
10/19/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 Nation of Islam terrorists kidnap a couple and nearly decapitate the man, while raping and leaving the woman for dead.
10/29/1973 USA Berkeley, CA 1 0 A woman is shot repeatedly in the face by Nation of Islam terrorists.
11/25/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A grocer is killed in his store by Nation of Islam terrorists.
12/11/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is killed by Nation of Islam terrorists while using a phone booth.
12/13/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A woman is shot to death on the sidewalk by Nation of Islam terrorists.
12/20/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 Nation of Islam terrorists gun down an 81-year-old janitor.
12/22/1973 USA Oakland, CA 2 0 Nation of Islam terrorist kills two people in separate attacks on the same day.
12/24/1973 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is kidnapped, tortured and decapitated by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1/24/1974 USA Oakland, CA 4 1 Five vicious shooting attacks by Nation of Islam terrorists leave three people dead and one paralyzed for life. Three of the victims were women.
4/1/1974 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 A Nation of Islam terrorist shoots at two Salvation Army members, killing a man and injuring a woman.
4/16/1974 USA Ingleside, CA 1 0 A man is killed while helping a friend move by Nation of Islam terrorists.
3/9/1977 USA Washington, DC 1 1 Hanifi Muslims storm three buildings including a B'nai B'rith to hold 134 people hostage. At least two innocents were shot and one died.
7/22/1980 USA Bethesda, MD 1 0 A political dissident is shot and killed in front of his home by an Iranian agent who was an American convert to Islam.
8/31/1980 USA Savou, IL 2 0 An Iranian student guns down his next-door neighbors, a husband and wife.
11/6/1989 USA St. Louis, MO 1 0 A 17-year-old girl is stabbed to death by her parents for bringing 'dishonor' to their family by dating an 'infidel' African-American.
1/31/1990 USA Tuscon, AZ 1 0 A Sunni cleric is assassinated in front of a Tuscon mosque after declaring that two verses of the Qur'an were invalid.
11/5/1990 USA New York City, NY 1 0 An Israeli rabbi is shot to death by a Muslim attacker at a hotel.
1/25/1993 USA Langley, VA 2 3 A Pakistani with Mujahideen ties guns down two CIA agents outside of the headquarters.
2/26/1993 USA New York, NY 6 1040 Islamic terrorists detonate a massive truck bomb under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring over 1,000 in an effort to collapse the towers.
3/1/1994 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 0 A Muslim gunman targets a van packed with Jewish boys, killing a 16-year-old.
3/23/1997 USA New York, NY 1 6 A Palestinian leaves an anti-Jewish suicide note behind and travels to the top of the Empire State building where he shoot seven people in a Fedayeen attack.
4/3/1997 USA Lompoc, CA 1 0 A prison guard is stabbed to death by a radical Muslim.
3/17/2000 USA Atlanta, GA 1 1 A local imam and Muslim spiritual leader guns down a deputy sheriff and injures his partner.
9/11/2001 USA Shanksville, PA 40 0 Forty passengers are killed after Islamic radicals hijack the plane in an attempt to steer it into the U.S. Capitol building.
9/11/2001 USA Washington, DC 184 53 Nearly 200 people are killed when Islamic hijackers steer a plane full of people into the Pentagon.
9/11/2001 USA New York, NY 2752 251 Islamic hijackers steer two planes packed with fuel and passengers into the World Trade Center, killing hundreds on impact and eventually killing thousands when the towers collapsed. At least 200 are seriously injured.
3/19/2002 USA Tuscon, AZ 1 0 A 60-year-old man is gunned down by Muslim snipers on a golf course.
5/27/2002 USA Denton, TX 1 0 Muslim snipers kill a man as he works in his yard.
7/4/2002 USA Los Angeles, CA 2 0 Muslim man pulls out a gun at the counter of an Israeli airline and kills two people.
9/5/2002 USA Clinton, MD 1 0 A 55-year-old pizzaria owner is shot six times in the back by Muslims at close range.
9/21/2002 USA Montgomery, AL 1 1 Muslim snipers shoot two women, killing one.
9/23/2002 USA Baton Rouge, LA 1 0 A Korean mother is shot in the back by Muslim snipers.
10/2/2002 USA Wheaton, MD 1 0 Muslim snipers gun down a program analyst in a store parking lot.
10/3/2002 USA Montgomery County, MD 5 0 Muslim snipers kill three men and two women in separate attacks over a 15-hour period.
10/9/2002 USA Manassas, VA 1 1 A man is killed by Muslim snipers while pumping gas two days after a 13-year-old is wounded by the same team.
10/11/2002 USA Fredericksburg, VA 1 0 Another man is killed by Muslim snipers while pumping gas.
10/14/2002 USA Arlington, VA 1 0 A woman is killed by Muslim snipers in a Home Depot parking lot.
10/22/2002 USA Aspen Hill, MD 1 0 A bus driver is killed by Muslim snipers.
8/6/2003 USA Houston, TX 1 0 After undergoing a 'religious revival', a Saudi college student slashes the throat of a Jewish student with a 4" butterfly knife, nearly decapitating the young man.
4/15/2004 USA Scottsville, NY 1 2 In an honor killing, a Muslim father kills his wife and attacks his two daughters with a knife and hammer because he feared that they had been sexually molested.
6/16/2006 USA Baltimore, MD 1 0 A 62-year-old Jewish moviegoer is shot to death by a Muslim medical student in an unprovoked terror attack.
6/25/2006 USA Denver, CO 1 5 Saying that it was 'Allah's choice', a Muslim shoots four of his co-workers and a police officer.
7/28/2006 USA Seattle, WA 1 5 An 'angry' Muslim-American uses a young girl as hostage to enter a local Jewish center, where he shoots six women, one of whom dies.
1/1/2008 USA Irving, TX 2 0 A Muslim immigrant shoots his two daughters to death on concerns about their 'Western' lifestyle.
7/6/2008 USA Jonesboro, GA 1 0 A devout Muslim strangles his 25-year-old daughter in an honor killing.
2/12/2009 USA Buffalo, NY 1 0 The founder of a Muslim TV station beheads his wife in the hallway for seeking a divorce.
4/12/2009 USA Phoenix, AZ 2 0 A man shoots his brother-in-law and another man to death after finding out that they visited a strip club, in contradiction to Islamic values.
6/1/2009 USA Little Rock, AR 1 1 A Muslim shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center explicitly in the name of Allah.
11/2/2009 USA Glendale, AZ 1 1 A woman dies from injuries suffered when her father runs her down with a car for being too 'Westernized.' (10-20-09)
11/5/2009 USA Ft. Hood, TX 13 31 A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers while yelling praises to Allah.
12/4/2009 USA Binghamton, NY 1 0 A non-Muslim Islamic studies professor is stabbed to death by a Muslim grad student in revenge for 'persecuted' Muslims.
4/14/2010 USA Marquette Park, IL 5 2 After quarrelling with his wife over Islamic dress, a Muslim convert shoots his family members to 'take them back to Allah' and out of the 'world of sinners'.
4/30/2011 USA Warren, MI 1 0 A 20-year-old woman is shot in the head by her stepfather for not adhering to Islamic practices.
9/11/2011 USA Waltham, MA 3 0 Three Jewish men have their throats slashed by Muslim terrorists.
1/15/2012 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 30-year-old Christian convert is shot to death by a devout Muslim for helping to convert his daughter.
11/12/2012 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 28-year-old American man is shot to death by a conservative Muslim over an alleged role in converting a woman to Christianity.
2/7/2013 USA Buena Vista, NJ 2 0 A Muslim targets and beheads two Christian Coptic immigrants.
3/24/2013 USA Ashtabula, OH 1 0 A Muslim convert walks into a church service with a Quran and guns down his Christian father while praising Allah.
4/15/2013 USA Boston, MA 3 264 Foreign-born Muslims describing themselves as 'very religious' detonate two bombs packed with ball bearings at the Boston Marathon, killing three people and causing several more to lose limbs.
4/19/2013 USA Boston, MA 1 1 Jihadists gun down a university police officer sitting in his car.
8/4/2013 USA Richmond, CA 1 0 A convert "on a mission from Allah" stabs a store clerk to death.
3/6/2014 USA Port Bolivar, TX 2 0 A Muslim man shoots his lesbian daughter and her lover to death and leaves a copy of the Quran open to a page condemning homosexuality.
4/27/2014 USA Skyway, WA 1 0 A 30-year-old man is murdered by a Muslim fanatic.
6/1/2014 USA Seattle, WA 2 0 Two homosexuals are murdered by an Islamic extremist.
6/25/2014 USA West Orange, NJ 1 0 A 19-year-old college student is shot to death 'in revenge' for Muslim deaths overseas.
9/25/2014 USA Moore, OK 1 1 A Sharia advocate beheads a woman after calling for Islamic terror and posting an Islamist beheading photo.
7/16/2015 USA Chattanooga 5 2 A 'devout Muslim' stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center which leaves five dead.
12/2/2015 USA San Bernardino, CA 14 17 A 'very religious' Muslim shoots up a Christmas party with his wife, leaving fourteen dead.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:53PM
Oh please, a cut-n-paste job without any verifiable citations? That site you copied it from just skimmed the internet for any murders involving muslims and then relied on your lack of context to assume the worst. Especially when it comes to "honor killings" which happen in all faiths like the 8000 hindu bride burnings each year in India [telegraph.co.uk] and christians defending it in Australia [theaustralian.com.au]
You bigots are so credulous.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:57PM
That's your best? I demonstrate that Islam has been killing Americans for at least forty years, and all you can offer is, "Hindus do honor killings"??????
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @12:11AM
> I demonstrate that Islam has been killing Americans for at least forty years
You demonstrated that some people who happen to be muslim have probably killed a couple of people a year for various reasons unknown and known, reasons that killers of all other faiths have claimed too. But that's how bigot logic works, its all about exclusively applying negative stereotypes to the group you wish to persecute.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Sunday December 13 2015, @03:28AM
How many years (centuries? millennia?) have America and other Western nations been interfering with and killing those in Islamic nations?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 13 2015, @06:55AM
That's a fair question, Joe - but it is also a question which exposes the hole in your knowledge of history. Off the top of my head, I'll say it's been just a wee bit more than 1000 years. But, I have to look to get an accurate answer. Why don't I just do that, and fill you in at the same time:
The Rashidun had conquered Spain by the year 750 - so that's 1250 years ago that the Muslims were slaughtering "western" Europeans. By that time they had established their power all the way up into the Caucusus, which meant they were also slaughtering eastern Europeans.
Islamic incursions into southern and central Italy came a little later - between 830 and 902.
To be fair, I'm not a history scholar, and I'm not qualified to judge the accuracy of the wikipedia article - but it matches well enough with my knowledge of Islamic conquest of Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests [wikipedia.org]
So, the answer to your question is, Muslims have been fucking around in the "western world" for about 1200 years.
We might say that it's payback time, Baby!
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Sunday December 13 2015, @06:39PM
Islam arose out of people who had been invaded and conquered by western nations (and others, like Persia) long before Mohammed showed up. The Greeks and Romans, to name a couple prominent ones off the top of my head, but they had been kicked around by just about everyone at some point, including each other. It is no wonder they turned towards conquest and empire when their strength was consolidated. Islam arose in the power vacuum amid polytheistic religions after the decline of Rome. As soon as they gained enough strength the various factions began their own quests as powers, but you can bet they still remembered the Romans. The invasion of Spain could be viewed as a re-establishment of connections lost when Rome destroyed Carthage, the peoples of the region were allies of Carthage and constantly at war with Rome, and Moorish Spain matched those boundaries almost exactly.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 13 2015, @07:16PM
I suppose that point of view isn't really invalid. But, it's one that I can't agree with. As you mention, the people of the mideast/Arabia/Persia/North Africa had been feuding for ages, before during and after Greek and Roman times.
Islam was a late comer to this whole thing. It was hundreds of years after Christ that Mohammed came along.
Bearing in mind that Mohammed rejected philosophy, along with all previous religions, as well as all previous governments, I can't really accept that Islam has some heritage to claim in Europe. Islam kept Jehovah, and a few trappings from the Moon god. It claimed no connection to Persia, or to any of the civilizations of the Tigirs and Euphrates, to Egypt, or to any other civilization or culture. Islam was the new kid on the block, without a heritage.
True to their master's word, they went conquering. I never saw that they were seeking vengeance on the Romans, or anyone else. They went conquering, and any who refused to worship the One God, according to the edicts of the imams, was to be put to death, or enslaved.
It's just a bit hard for me to credit the Muslims with re-establishing any eastern influence in the west. The old nations were less than ghosts, and Islam rejected the ghosts. I just can't see it.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Monday December 14 2015, @05:51PM
I'm not saying that most of it was entirely a conscious effort, but that Islam arose from that environment, although with nearly a thousand years of Carthage in Spain there were blood ties established. All those petty tribal feuds among the Arabs, their continually suffering invasions from more powerful neighboring nations, all led to their doing the same once Islam allowed their own power to be consolidated to the point they were powerful enough to do it themselves. Had some other force been able to unite them, the same sort of events would likely have followed. After all, there are biblical precedents for much of what Islam did in conquering neighbors, look up the Book of Numbers, Chapter 31.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @06:22PM
You could also argue that the religion is in fact somewhat orthogonal. Different empires became powerful. The religion their leaders and people adhered to became powerful as a consequence. E.g. Christianity become powerful in the Mediterranean not because the cult was particularly different than many others throughout the region, but just because it happened to be chosen by enough Roman leaders. It is likely some religion would be chosen. A particular one being chosen may just be the random chance of social interaction and the luck of powerful people picking it. Another example is Latin America. Conquered by Spain, they became heavily Catholic because Spain was Catholic. The same argument holds for Islam. It may not be popular because of anything particular interesting about the religion (not that much different really than Christian or even Jewish Religions), but because it was The Religion of successful empires.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Tuesday December 15 2015, @05:59PM
While that is true, there are factors which help "choose" one religion over another.
Christianity become powerful in the Mediterranean not because the cult was particularly different than many others throughout the region, but just because it happened to be chosen by enough Roman leaders.
I think it was probably chosen by Roman leaders because they realized it was a perfect religion for helping control masses of poor people who were probably not enjoying their current life very much. Combine a doctrine that promises eternal reward for the "good" (obedient?) and much propagandizing of the virtues of being poor and suffering with at the same time a worship of feudal/monarchical/hierarchical authority and it is no surprise Roman leaders grabbed onto it in the declining days of the empire.
The same argument holds for Islam. It may not be popular because of anything particular interesting about the religion (not that much different really than Christian or even Jewish Religions), but because it was The Religion of successful empires.
I spent a good part of an evening years ago reading part of the history of Islam on the Albawaba website (over a 56k modem). I lost interest when it changed from a spiritual doctrine to Allah "commanding" Mohammed to attack and conquer various entities to gain their wealth and power. I think Islam succeeded so well because it is a perfect religion for allowing relatively well off leaders to encourage those underneath them to sacrifice themselves for the gain of the leader, promising them an eternal reward much greater than they were going to see in their actual lives.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2015, @05:07PM
I demonstrate that Islam has been killing Americans for at least forty years, and all you can offer is,
Different AC here, but I think you could argue that people claiming Muslim faith have been killing, and even enslaving, Americans for much longer than 40 years. The Barbary War is the first thing that pops to my mind which really indicates Muslims killing Americans since the beginnings of the US. But by the same token, you could also that people claiming the Christian faith have been killing, and even enslaving, Americans for the life of the Republic. In fact, I think it's a pretty safe bet that many, many more Americans have been killed and enslaved by self described Christians than by self described Muslims.
So if we follow the logic that since some Muslims have killed Americans therefore we should be afraid and protect ourselves from Muslims in general, then we should also be even more afraid and even quicker to protect ourselves from Christians in general. Personally, I think this points out the ridiculousness of the original argument. But if you are arguing for protecting ourselves from Muslims and Christians and heck, lets just make it all religions (register the churches?, kick them out of the country?, disarm theme?, arm ourselves and keep a wary eye on them?, whatever), then at least the argument would be consistent.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 14 2015, @06:48PM
I had to look back and make sure where we are here.
"Americans stock up on weapons after California shooting" Got it. Bottom line is, looney toons are running around killing us, and it doesn't make a huge difference who is doing the killing. We have a right to stock up on weapons, so that if a Syrian, a Russian, a Briton, or a North or South or Central American attacks us, we can kill back.
That goes equally for any race, religion, ethnicity, or political affiliation. As Americans, we have the right to defend ourselves.
Now, as for Islam, I wish everyone would stop thinking of it as a religion. Islam is a complete political, religious, judicial, and philosophical system. Islam has gone back into history about 6 thousand years, and reincarnated something like the original prophets, kings, and judges of the Old Testament. Nice, self contained culture, independent of any outside influence. THAT is far more dangerous than a simple religion.
And, yes, I'm perfectly willing to just tell them they can't come here any more. And, I'm willing to defend that decision with weapons.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 2) by Entropy on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:33PM
Maybe because 95% of terrorists are guess what..muslim.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:56PM
> Maybe because 95% of terrorists are guess what..muslim.
I'm sure nothing will change your mind because its about the feels not the facts for guys like you. But anyone else reading along should know that both the FBI's terrorism reprots and Europol's terrorism reports say you've got that number reversed.
FBI: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t [loonwatch.com]
Europol: Less Than 1% of Terrorist Attacks by Muslims [loonwatch.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:01PM
You are gonna have to come up with something better than whatever the hell a "blogzine run by the hate-allergic" who calls anyone that disagrees with them "a worthless lazy fellow".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:15PM
You are encouraged to go through the FBI and Europol numbers yourself and prove him wrong.
Of course you can't because resorting to the ad hominem fallacy is what people do when they know they don't have the facts on their side.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @11:12PM
Exactly why that loon site is not trustworthy and thus the burden of proof is still on the argument supported by it.
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by jmorris on Saturday December 12 2015, @06:46PM
So nobody blinks twice when Christian terrorists..
STFU, it is obvious why you troll as an AC because you know you would be ashamed to say such stupid things in public where the shame would follow you.
Muslims are 1% of America and account for a full half of all deaths due to terror incidents. When you can show me a Christian sect with a similar propensity to mindless violence I shall join you in political action to take stern measures to make sure they understand that if they can't learn to police their own better that they should expect FBI agents and hidden cameras in their churches and other extraordinary measures. There is precedent, the FBI did infiltrate churches back when the Democrats were getting a little too murderey with their Terror Wing (The KKK). Islam currently wants to have it both ways, to declare that any monitoring of their activities is wrong and at the same time that they can't be expected to deal with their violent fringe. I say fuck you, pick one of three choices and do it before we pick for you: clean your own problem up, let the FBI do it for you or begin out migration with a vengeance.
I have no intention of being forced into living in a police state because 1% can't/won't coexist. If throwing every one of them out of the country is what it ends up requiring to allow the other 99% to live in peace then so be it. Like most serious issues, approaching it with a clear mind, clearly stating one's position and making all understand the will to act exists brings peace. If they understand their dream of the black flag of jihad flying over our lands is simply NOT happening, most will settle down and assimilate or leave. Either is acceptable.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @07:02PM
> Muslims are 1% of America and account for a full half of all deaths due to terror incidents
STFU, it is obvious you are just using bad statistics to justify your bigotry. The number of "terror incidents" in the US is so goddamn small - 28 in the last 14 years of which only 8 were by muslims - that anyone who claims to find meaning in it is just trying to justify their own bigotry. This is soylent we do understand math here, don't try to bullshit us with your innumeracy. 8 people out of a million-plus is 0.0008% The other 99.9992% is a hell of a lot more meaningful.
Meanwhile there were ~400,000 deaths by gun in that same time period. If you want to get worked up over a cultural problem, focus on the culture that's killing many orders of magnitude more people.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2015, @07:57PM
Mr. Morris was talking out his ass a little bit, but you're an absolute fucking idiot. 8 out of 28 incidents is a very significant percentagle of terrorist acts that have to be attributed to a very small part of the population. Yes, Islam is a problem, ya idiot.
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:35PM
Runaway joins the innumeracy brigade! We all suspected you never graduated from high school.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:06PM
And in the same period 1.23 million people in the US died due to alcohol. Over 4 million people died due to alcohol in the EU in that same time period. Europe wide that number is two million higher still. Yet I am sure you are going to kick back with some two buck chuck and rant about how dangerous guns are and how wonderful the world would be if we had a prohibition against them.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:16PM
I don't get the morning talking points email, maybe I'm just behind the curve. But I thought the NYT was considered a reliable news source. I'm basing my reasoning on a chart they printed showing "Deaths from extremist attacks since 9/11" that puts Islam in a tie with everything else. Of course they were lying by omission by neglecting to point out the 99% of the population contributing to the "other than Islam" count vs the 1% for Islam but that doesn't change their numbers as shown.
Meanwhile there were ~400,000 deaths by gun in that...
Most of whom are people who do not matter shooting other people who do not matter. Your side generally gets to decide what matters and has decided poor inner city youths of color shooting others of the same description is not newsworthy. For example you probably do not even know about the mass shooting recently in New Orleans at Bunny Friend Playground. Local coverage,a few quiet mentions in the greater media but no national OUTRAGE. Because they don't matter to the people who decide what matters. Bluntly, they do not matter to NBC, the NYT, etc. Black Lives do not Matter unless the corpses provides a good platform to stand on and demagogue. This is self evidently true, it is true because of the conscious decisions of Progressive "thought leaders" and yet you will refuse to step up and own it. You will in fact, if you bother to reply, display all three Laws of SJW in that you will lie, double down and project your own racism yet again.
So after a detour to administer a beatdown, those shootings will not cause a stampede into a police state. Islamic terror against middle class government workers in CA will if it becomes regular enough people demand that "something be done."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:22PM
> But I thought the NYT was considered a reliable news source.
It totally is. In fact, just yesterday I saw a chart they printed that said jmorris was personally responsible for half of those deaths.
::rolleyes::
(Score: -1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2015, @07:47PM
Planned parenthood murders 300,000 babies a year - how in HELL can they object to violence?
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 2) by art guerrilla on Sunday December 13 2015, @12:34PM
so-oooo, was that a 'baby' immediately upon conception, or what, runningoffatthepiehole ? ? ?
do i own my own body, or what, runningonempty ? ? ?
here is an ABSOLUTE (made up) FACT that anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows is true:
if MEN got pregnant, we would have drive-thru abortion clinics/liquor stores, without a doubt ! ! !
and NO ONE would squawk about zygotes getting 'murdered'...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 13 2015, @12:40PM
Just how childish and petty can you get?
I'll tell you precisely what the difference is between infanticide and late term abortion: the infant will scream when you stick the needle into his brain, but you've denied the fetus the breath necessary to scream.
Of course, Planned Parenthood has no problem with infanticide either.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/29/planned-parenthood-president-cecile-richards-well-okay-no-we-dont-perform-mammograms/ [dailycaller.com]
ICE is having a Pretti Good season.
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Saturday December 12 2015, @07:51PM
The "Christian Terrorist" only targeted Planned Parenthood, and that tends to be the only place Christian extremists tend to target, so most people don't give a shit about it.
The San Bernadino shootings happened at a Holiday office party, the same kind of event that many businesses have in one form or another this time of year, by people who have stated clearly that everyone is a target and they will strike anywhere and everywhere to kill as many people as possible. . That is why people are scared and buying a means to protect themselves.
Not to say that their isn't a lot of bigotry in the USA, just look at Trump's rhetoric and the number of his supporters. All Trump needs is a toothbrush mustache.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:12PM
The thing about bigotry is that bigots always have a carefully curated excuse to justify their bigotry. Christians only target planned parenthood so that's OK. Which is ridiculous on the face of it. All those other killings like Jared and Amanda Miller, Dylan Roof and McVeigh - those don't even count as terrorism.
Maybe there is some other common feature besides the religion of the perps. But choosing not to see it, that's bigotry.
(Score: 2) by Entropy on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:29PM
Actually that was a bank robbery that kind of got caught up in an abortion clinic.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:40PM
is that whackjob christians usually attack specific places or people who conflict with their ideology. This makes it pretty straightforward to either avoid those places, or decide you're willing to take the risk for the reward (in the case of abortion/government work opportunities.)
Whackjob Muslims on the other hand go after *EVERYBODY*. It doesn't matter if you're pro/anti abortion, Jew, Christian, or Muslim (unless they know you're 'one of them' due to funding, personnel, or material support, and of the proper sect and rabid ideology.)
THAT is why people are loading up in response to this and similiar attacks. The two popular methods of terrorist attack are bombs and shootings. Both of which can be limited in scope or stopped by sufficiently armed and perceptive populace. Now on the other hand lack of perception combined with a glut of firearms is going to see a few people injured or killed, but at this point I'd rather a few of those deaths and the capability to handle any future terrorism over the old nannystate defense against it.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:35AM
Congress won't permit the National Institutes of Health to answer that question but that doesn't mean someone else couldn't.
I'm a former suicide hotline counselor. I will tell you that of attempted suicides, those that use a gun are more likely to be completed.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1) by J_Darnley on Saturday December 12 2015, @04:49PM
Good. People should be using a very effective means of killing themselves. No half hearted overdose attempt leaving you in need of expensive medical treatment. If I lived in the US I know I would have taken that route already. Instead I must work up the courage to use some slower method. I'm too much of a coward to cut myself so I'll probably go with hanging. After all jumping in front of a bus is a dick move.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:08PM
I agree. Why force people to suffer? Why force those that do not want to live to keep on living or risk maiming themselves, making their lives even worse? Let those that want to die do so. Let them do so with dignity. Anything else is barbarism worse than supporting slavery. At least slaves only loathe their conditions and not their existence.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday December 13 2015, @03:42AM
It's just as delusional as thinking you are the Emperor of France.
I've attempted several times. Each time, after I recovered from the depression I concluded that I had no compelling reason to die. The last time I crashed my car into a concrete highway overpass post at 100 MPH. I was not injured in any way but my car as totalled. Now I have to get around on the bus.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:20PM
If spontaneous suicides weren't a symptom of mental illness you'd have a point.
The people who kevorkian themselves don't use guns or hang themselves or anything else that would traumatize their family. The people who leave their body to surprise the people who love them are, by definition, not thinking clearly. And unfortunately that's 99% of suicides.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @11:17PM
If you say you want to die, you lose your freedom and have to pay for that privilege if you ever do get better. That is why suicidal people don't talk about it and that is why suicides seem "spontaneous". Ask for help and risk getting handcuffed, led off and tied to a bed, unable to even scratch your own nose. If they ever let you out, then they throw a 5k a day medical bill at you. Asking for help generally makes things worse.
Have you ever thought those people deserved that sight? Until the recent drug craze, psychologists thought of depression as the fault of loved ones not giving support or adding to the victim's suffering.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @12:06AM
Dying from dehydration is best (there are faster, pain-free methods but they risk the person who finds you if you screw something up). Just keep your mouth wet and it fools your body into thinking it's hydrated. I've heard hospitals let elderly people go like this but I've never confirmed that. You'll be hungry for the first 12 hours or so (don't eat anything too), then you'll be fine until around 2.5 days when you'll start passing out. Then just stay in a position where you're constantly losing conscious and you won't be awake to feel anything.
As a bonus or a drawback, it takes some time so it gives people a chance to notice (cry for help?) and you'll have time to change your mind. You can't undo jumping off a building but you can start drinking some re-hydration fluid (salt water and some other things, look it up) and abort your suicide. You'd need to do that before you're constantly passing out. At that stage, it'd be better to get emergency medical treatment. I've done it, obviously failed (lasted 2.6 days), but I don't have any lingering side effects or scars. No one even noticed.
For people who say it's cowardly to kill yourself, go try it sometime. It takes a lot of will power and courage to do it. I bet you couldn't give yourself harmless paper cuts along the length of your arm. Someone killing them-self has to cut a lot deeper. You can be too depressed to kill yourself. Think about the people we'd leave behind? We are. Correct or not, we think the world would be better off without us. Why should we live for them when every day is hell and they do nothing to help us?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @02:40AM
What you want, is an "Exit Bag"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bag [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @11:05AM
I'll just leave this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0 [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4 [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday December 12 2015, @05:51PM
The Jim Jefferies gun control skit is outstanding hands down. I'm a gun enthusiast and I laugh non-stop at that thing. It really is a joke with nice grains of truth in it. I saw Jefferies live recently and he talked about his gun control skit. Mostly he was concerned that his gun control skit was being cited in a discussion at a major University. His concern was rooted in the fact that he is a comedian and everything in his skit he made up! Since he is a comedian he says what he wants and what he wants is to be funny. He doesn't look up statistics - that is something a learning institution should do.
Seriously if you are a gun nut and you don't wind up laughing at this skit you need to check your assumptions about the device that goes bang and you are entirely too much in love with.
(Score: 2) by richtopia on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:02PM
Awesome laugh. Here is a link:
http://www.break.com/video/jim-jefferies-on-gun-control-2755989 [break.com]
(Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Saturday December 12 2015, @11:35AM
timbim writes in with a Reuters story on a gun surge:
Many Americans agree...
Agree with what?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @02:13PM
> Agree with what?
That you should see a psychiatrist about your compulsion to make inane posts.
(Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:55PM
Pardon me for expecting summaries on a news website to make sense.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:15PM
Pardon me for expecting people to masturbate in private.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @11:48PM
With each other, dum dum!
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @12:08PM
Barbarians at the gate, who do not understand or respect the right of the individual, are foaming at the mouth to impose restrictions on the Constitutional right to self defense. When you import the third world, you import third-world problems and mentalities. In my mind, theres no difference between people trying to ban guns and those trying to ban encryption, and any argument you can make against gun ownership can also be applied to encryption controls (and voting restrictions, and freedom of speech, and so on, you double-thinking hypocrites).
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @02:30PM
That certainly is an age old remedy... And effective as fucking for virginity!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @02:43PM
Stocking up on guns to defend you and your family. but all the mass shootings seem to be in public places where there are no guns allowed!
Shall we arm all students in schools? Should mom sport her designer holster while taking baby for a stroll through the mall?
I don't get it, if buying guns was the answer, why are there still mass shootings?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @08:50PM
> all the mass shootings seem to be in public places where there are no guns allowed!
That's incorrect. Only about half of the mass shootings in public areas are no-gun zones. For example, the recent shooting at the Oregon university which killed 9 people. Oregon forces colleges to allow guns. [theguardian.com]
Despite that, only about 3% of mass shootings are stopped by a civilian using a gun while about 14% are stopped by unarmed civilians. And just to put that in perspective, nearly 30% are stopped by the shooter committing suicide before the police even arrive. That's according to an FBI analysis [fbi.gov] of active shooting incidents from 2000 to 2012.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:19PM
Considering 3% is roughly the same percentage of Americans that have ccws*, you have made an impressively sound argument that more guns is the answer. I never believed that and consider gun ownership a good thing for the same reason that the writers of the constitution did: it's the only freedom that helps protect the rest when all else fails. Yet when you give a statistic that the percentage of mass shootings stopped parallels the license-holder rate, much higher than the actual carry rate, guns do seem to be the answer.
*http://www.ammoland.com/2014/07/new-report-shows-11-1-million-americans-hold-concealed-carry-permits/
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @09:29PM
You've got that exactly backwards. These are not one-to-one engagements. These are cases of one shooter threatening tens if not hundreds of potential victims. If your theory held, with all of those CCW holders among the targets practically every incident would be ended by a CCW holder, instead its only 3%.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @11:22PM
Not all CCW holders carry 100% of the time and most shooting events happen in gun-free zones. Please think before you post.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2015, @05:44AM
Oh please, read the damn thread before you post.
Its already been shown that at least half of them happen in gun-allowed zones.
Even if CCWs don't carry 100% of the time, a 3% stop rate is miniscule given the number of potential CCWs. Even if CCWs only carried 10% of the time for an effective rate of 0.3% - if you assume that mass shootings have at least 100 possible bystanders then that would be 30% of the time, cut that in half for "gun free" zones and that's still an expected 15% stop rate.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @03:17PM
... the gun manufacturers.
They're probably happy when these incidents occur, they know they'll get more customers and their profits will go up. Today they use Obama as their bogeyman, but after he leaves office they'll just use any other prominent politician or media outlet that advocates gun control.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by cellocgw on Saturday December 12 2015, @05:38PM
'nuff said.
Physicist, cellist, former OTTer (1190) resume: https://app.box.com/witthoftresume
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @10:22PM
"Americans are stupid. Ha ha, look at those dumb Americans, having conservative opinions, wanting to protect themselves and their family from harm. Don't they know that reality has a liberal bias? Everyone who doesn't think like me must be an utter retard!" -- cellocgw
(Score: 2) by timbim on Wednesday December 23 2015, @04:14AM
By every measure, statistic and metric, it is stupid for you to purchase weapons to protect yourself. Usually the reverse happens.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2015, @06:40PM
The gun companies will gladly fan the flames to get people to buy guns. I can't wait until more people start shooting themselves, or their children, the next time they get drunk. Natural Selection in action.