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Written in a New York Times article and summarily paraphrased here,
Elissa Shevinsky can pinpoint the moment when she felt that she no longer belonged. She was at a friend's house watching the live stream of the TechCrunch Disrupt hackathon, when she saw that it opened with two men who developed an app called Titstare. After some banter, one of Titstare's developers proudly proclaimed, "This is the breast hack ever."
Ms. Shevinsky felt pushed to the edge. Women who enter fields dominated by men often feel this way. "It's a thousand tiny paper cuts," is how Ashe Dryden, a programmer who now consults on increasing diversity in technology, described working in tech. Women in tech like Shevinsky and Dryden advocate working to change the tech culture from inside-out, but other women like Lea Verou write that,
' women-only conferences and hackathons cultivate the notion that women are these weak beings who find their male colleagues too intimidating...As a woman, I find it insulting and patronizing to be viewed that way.'
This all being hot on the heels of engineer Julie Ann Horvath's departure from Github as a result of similar concern.
Any of you care to address your own personal experiences or opinions regarding the subject matter; as well as the accuracy of the articles' stories compared to the industry-at-large?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by kevinl on Monday April 07 2014, @01:17PM
In the same universe that the pregnant fathers exist.
I wasn't specific enough about the purpose of this room. It isn't for feeding an infant, because infants aren't allowed in the manufacturing area, only qualified and trained operations people are. It's for pumping breast milk. I haven't heard of any men at our facility using a breast pump for their children, but I'm pretty sure if they did there would be no problems with them using the room.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Vanderhoth on Monday April 07 2014, @02:18PM
Not that I don't agree with you that the AC was being intentionally moronic, but "nursing room" implies feeding. I'd frame the AC's post as saying
As you said, I'm sure a man would be allowed in the nursing room under the expressed intent it was to nurse his child, from his own breast or otherwise.
On a side note, I wish nursing rooms were more readily available in public spaces. I know it's not a very PC thing to say, but I do wish some women were a little more discrete/considerate about feeding in public. I'm all for breast feeding and don't think it's something a women should be ashamed of, but I was once accused of ogling when a women whipped her breast out at a table sitting behind my wife at a restaurant. The action caught my eye and I quickly looked away, but I guess turning my head out of respect for her privacy was the wrong thing to do. After feeding her kid she came over and told my wife she should be ashamed of me as her husband because I don't support breast feeding, which isn't the case at all. My wife used a privacy blanket when feeding in public and was very good at covering up while feeding. When done right it's very discrete and you don't have to worry about Johnny rubber necks gocking at you, intentionally or otherwise.
It's actually a little funny to me because my wife, along with many other women I know, spends more time looking at and being critical of other women breast and what they do with them than I have for my entire life, including my awkward teen years. It's clear to me women can be their own worst enemies and are often more critical of other women than men are.
"Now we know", "And knowing is half the battle". -G.I. Joooooe
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 07 2014, @02:27PM
I would have to agree with you on this and while I fully expect to be flamed for this comment in my mind a woman whipping out her breast to breastfeed in public is no different to a man whipping out his penis and publicly urinating. There are some people that will be offended by their actions and consideration for those people should be shown.
There are established social and legal rules that say that public nudity is not ok and if breastfeeding in public is to be considered ok we should revise the rules for all kinds of nudity.
(Score: 2) by Vanderhoth on Monday April 07 2014, @02:58PM
The worst part here was I wasn't offended by her actions, she was offended by me trying to respect her privacy and not stare at her while she sitting directly behind my wife facing me.
I don't equate whipping out a breast to publicly feed a child to whipping out a penis to publicly urinate. It's a little disconcerting to think the only appropriate place to feed a child in public is while sitting on a toilet in a public restroom. Women should be allowed to nurse in public, but I agree there has to be some compromise here. Either you do it openly and accept some people are going to see and maybe even stare or use a privacy blanket and accept it's your responsibility to protect your own privacy.
Maybe marriage has jaded me, but I don't even know why breasts are still considered something that need to be covered up. I'm certainly not opposed to women going topless on a hot day (or otherwise), I see men all the time with larger breasts than most of the women I know who go topless and with the internet these days it's not like women's breast aren't already plastered all over the place. Breast just aren't that special, especially when you consider their just sacks of fatty tissue hanging off someones chest. The biggest reason I can see that we, as males, desire to look at them is because we're told we're not suppose to look at them.
"Now we know", "And knowing is half the battle". -G.I. Joooooe
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Monday April 07 2014, @03:19PM
> in my mind a woman whipping out her breast to breastfeed in public is no different to a man whipping out his penis and publicly urinating.
I don't want to be the flame you anticipated but what you wrote is just... wierd.
Urination is, by it's nature, offensive. Urine is a waste product, it smells bad, it is unsanitary if not disposed of properly. That's why we have discrete little rooms where people can do it and (hopefully) wash their hands afterwards.
Breastfeeding is none of those things. It's not stinky or icky or dirty or gross. It's just a baby drinking milk.
I really don't see any equivalence between the two, except that in both cases a body part which western society normally insists on covering up gets exposed. BFD. The sight of a boob (or a penis, for that matter) is not going to hurt me or anybody else.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 07 2014, @03:32PM
Blah, as long as we have a society where both dogs and cats urinate publicly I find your arguments about the ick factor of urine to be largely irrelevant, there are plenty of places where the urine would cause no issues that are considered public, I'm not suggesting that you take a piss indoors or on the street right where people are walking. And what if you really, really, really have to pee and can't find a bathroom.
If you take a piss in an alley behind a dumpster you will still be marked a sex offender for life if the cops catch you in some states.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Monday April 07 2014, @03:43PM
Sooooo... what you're saying is that whipping it out and pissing in public is not offensive.
Are you the same AC that just now equated pissing and breastfeeding? If so I'm really not sure where your argument is going.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 07 2014, @04:17PM
Exactly the same place where I was going with my original post, either we change the rules for what is acceptable in terms of nudity or we refrain from offending other people that find it disturbing, wether it's public urinating or public breastfeeding.
The reason I went with whipping out the dong to urinate was for two reasons, first, like breastfeeding both acts are driven by biological functions, second, I vaguely remember reading some article with women calling out for more peni in movies and tv to make things equal with all the boobs that are shown and from that, like any good random internet weirdo I jumped to the totally reasonable conclusion that women equate showing penis to showing breasts. Personally I'm not offended by nudity at all and would prefer that laws that prohibit nudity be removed and if it became legal, the social norm would also change over time. But things being as they are, I respect that some people are offended by public urination and refrain from doing so, likewise I think that breastfeeding women should be sensitive to the fact that public breastfeeding makes some people uncomfortable. If we all go off and do whatever we personally think is reasonable, regardless of other peoples opinions we can't have a civilized society.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 07 2014, @02:40PM
Okay, I'll spell it out in small words.
First, I assume that the "expectant mothers" parking spots are separate from and in addition to the usual handicapped parking spots.
If there are specific parking spots set aside for women with a transient physical condition that makes parking close to the building a bit easier for them, are there also spots set aside for men with transient physical conditions -- say, a broken leg -- where parking there would help a man out?
Can a guy with a broken leg park in the "expectant mothers" spots if there don't happen to be any expectant mothers to use them (and the usual handicapped spots are full, or if he doesn't have a handicap plate/placard yet)?
The point is, since you seem to require it to be spelled out very concretely -- why is it okay to set a resource aside for use by women only, and it's seen as fine and normal to do so, while if a resource is set aside for use by men only, it's the end of damn world and evidence of the evil patriarchy?
(Score: 1) by kevinl on Monday April 07 2014, @04:33PM
For these particular slots, no. Because someone with a broken leg would not be allowed in the manufacturing area anyway without authorization from a doctor, which would also give them time for a temporary handicap placard. They would also likely be temporarily reassigned to a non-production area until they were deemed fit for their old role again. Depending on how the injury occured, they might instead be placed on short-term disability, or an incident investigation might be undertaken that would lead to other changes.
This isn't a shopping mall, it's a manufacturing site where trespassing is an automatic felony.
Perhaps you could agitate for your employer to provide resources for relief to a biological issue that a large fraction of men of professional working age (and only men) will experience. I have no idea what that could be, but maybe you can think of something.
Or you could just give up this tired "what about the menz" argument. Seriously, somewhere in the USA an employer is providing courtesy parking spots to pregnant employees, and you have a problem with it? What are you, a ghost writer for Fox and Friends?
(Score: 1) by urza9814 on Monday April 07 2014, @05:36PM
If there are specific parking spots set aside for women with a transient physical condition that makes parking close to the building a bit easier for them, are there also spots set aside for men with transient physical conditions -- say, a broken leg -- where parking there would help a man out?
The concept of needing closer parking for expectant mothers is fairly new, as in the past the assumption was that they would just stay home, and that they therefore didn't have a right to be able to access workplaces and certain public buildings.
This culture is starting to change, but the laws haven't caught up yet. I'm sure the companies would much prefer to have a combined handicapped/expectant mother/whatever parking spots. But the law says they must have a certain number of handicapped spots reserved only for people with one of a certain specified set of disabilities. Expectant mothers aren't on that list, so the companies choose to add those spots separately. Perhaps in a few years that will get included in the legal requirements instead.
I mean it's just like writing software. If you've got two massive software systems being upgraded at a different rate, every once in a while you're gonna need some crappy dirty hacks to hold things together temporarily!