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NPR is reporting on this tale of direct action:
A self-styled militia in eastern Oregon grabbed national headlines Saturday when they broke into the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. There the armed group remains Sunday, occupying the federal building in protest of what it sees as government overreach on rangelands throughout the western United States.
"We stand in defense," Ammon Bundy, the group's apparent leader and spokesperson, told Oregon Public Broadcasting. "And when the time is right we will begin to defend the people of Harney County, [Ore.,] in using the land and the resources."
Ammon's brother, Ryan, has reportedly used harsher rhetoric, saying members of the militia are willing to kill or be killed.
Their last name may ring a bell. Ammon and Ryan Bundy are sons of rancher Cliven Bundy, who notably took part in an armed standoff with the federal Bureau of Land Management, or BLM, in Nevada in 2014.
Ammon Bundy now is part of a group of 15 to 150 people — depending on which source you believe — who are protesting the arson convictions of two Oregon ranchers, Dwight Hammond Jr. and his son, Steven.
Also at Oregon Live, NYT, and the Associated Press.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by canopic jug on Monday January 04 2016, @04:27PM
"The first was reportedly set in 2001 to cover up their illegal poaching of a deer on government property. [rollingstone.com]". So they are poachers, too, on top of everything else and that is directly related to the first fire. They're just common criminals.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 5, Informative) by snick on Monday January 04 2016, @04:36PM
The ranchers/poachers/arsonists weren't thrilled to be re-sentenced, but were/are cooperating with the process and are expected to report to prison south of LA some time today. They have no association with the armed yahoos who stormed the bird sanctuary, and have explicitly condemned them.
The ranchers may be common criminals, (they were convicted as such) but the "militia" action to protect the citizenry from the federally supervised watching of birds is its own crazy train.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by ikanreed on Monday January 04 2016, @05:08PM
The armed yahoos are a side effect of right wing media bubbles, not a genuine reaction to the quite normal background levels of private misuse of federal lands and prosecution thereof. They're an easily radicalized subset of the population actively being told that every federal conflict, no matter the scale, is a threat to their freedom.
Much like the Planned Parenthood shooter was radicalized by a fabricated video, these guys there was just too many people trying to make Bundy into the most oppressive thing ever as part of unrelated culture war, and they got drawn in. It's exactly the same process* that radicalizes people for ISIS or Al Qaeda, only those go through back-channels, and this through at least a few major news outlets.
*That process is really simple.
1. See that things are fucked up.
2. Have a source you trust give a narrative blaming [Insert Cultural Conflict Here]
3. Have a personality that favors extreme solutions to problems
4. Go down the rabbit hole of crazier, more violent, and more paranoid sources on [Cultural Conflict]
5. Take action or join a group that organizes action.
Most of the US plan on preventing Islamic radicalization involves bombing those at the center of #4. My personal feeling is that once someone is at #3 they're going to find all the #4 they could want no matter what you do.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Monday January 04 2016, @05:21PM
It also definitely helps them that now it's very easy for those at stage 2 to avoid any source of information that challenges the narrative. And there's a couple of reasons for that:
1. The demise of the Fairness Doctrine [wikipedia.org], which required that TV and radio stations include coverage of public interest in a way that included contrasting views. When that went away in 1987, that allowed nutjobs like Rush Limbaugh (there are some smart and articulate people out there advocating conservative viewpoints, but Limbaugh is definitely not one of them) to really take over the radio and later TV airwaves.
2. The Internet makes it really easy for like-minded folks to find each other, but also to avoid all discussion with folks with differing views. This creates an echo chamber where nutty ideas (e.g. 9/11 conspiracy theories, moon landing hoax theories) to be reinforced rather than challenged.
In the case of these folks, some of the blame should land squarely on Fox News, who has continued to treat Cliven Bundy as something other than a criminal engaged in armed rebellion against the lawful authority of the federal government.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Monday January 04 2016, @05:38PM
The natural problem with the fairness doctrine is that there aren't 2 perspectives on everything.
Sometimes there's just 1. Global warming is real and man-made, evolution is real, people saying otherwise are just very loud about their wrongness. Neutrality about these subjects is just, well, wrong. Wikipedia, as an example had to tack a "Fringe science isn't science" rider to their own neutral point of view policy because of rampant abuse.
Sometimes there's millions. If I say the top marginal tax rate ought to be 57% starting at 2MM a year, and my cohost says it ought be 15% starting at 100k, have we adequately represented contrasting views?
The solution to this particular problem has to be journalists holding themselves to a minimal standard of not deceiving the public.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Monday January 04 2016, @05:48PM
My experience is that in situations where people are responsible for holding themselves to a minimal standard, they don't. It requires some sort of external pressure to hold people to a minimal standard, like a threat of a lawsuit or public shaming.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @05:57PM
The natural problem with the fairness doctrine is that there aren't 2 perspectives on everything.
Sometimes there's just 1. Peptic ulcers are caused by stress or spicy food, people saying otherwise are just very loud about their wrongness. Especially those pesky Warren and Marshall. I mean, there's scientific consensus that ulcers aren't caused by H. pylori. Obviously, they're just deniers.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Vanderhoth on Monday January 04 2016, @06:24PM
This is actually not entirely true. I think you arrive at the right conclusion that journalists are the issue here, but the concept of "2 perspectives" is overly simplified. It's not always black and white, right and wrong. It's a distraction from the fact that there are multiple views or uncertainty of how bad/good things actually are. Yes, global warming is happening and it's man made, but journalists in the *left* media aren't anymore qualified to interrupter the data than journalists in the *right* media.
FYI, I work with climate data. The left paints it as a doomsday scenario, but are ultimately just slightly less wrong than the *right* media, which still insists on having it's head in the sand. I support doing something about climate because ultimately the worst that can happen is we end up with more efficient energy solutions, less pollution and a healthier planet, but I don't think we need to lie about what's going on to achieve that. Journalists from either side paint things based on their personal bias for people that happen to agree with their bias and click on their articles. Objective journalism is dead, it's all about click bait these days, the more sensationalized and/or controversial and/or ridiculous, the more clicks they get.
Just because the media is telling you one thing doesn't automatically mean there's only two positions and you're either right or wrong. There's a plethora of information you're likely not even seeing because it doesn't fit the story the journalist wants to tell, or even directly contradicts it. Aside from a lot of articles are actually just parrots of parrots. It's like a perverted game of telephone with each journalists inserting their own personal spin on what some other journalist has spun, which when you follow the links back to the source will be an opinion piece in itself with little to no supporting citations. That doesn't mean they're always wrong, rather they're likely pushing an extremist view for extremists that will read their articles for the confirmation bias. You'd be surprised how easy it is for a journalists to tie in unrelated events and issues to push a narrative and paint any and all opposition as bad guys so no one will question them. Most "news" these days isn't really fact based, it's opinions retweeted, blogged about, shared and parroted.
Wikipedia is just as bad. All it takes to make a "factual" wikipedia article is to write a joke/fake article, get a journalist to print something based on the fake information, then rewrite the article citing that article to make it fact. It's a lot more common than you think. Just go read some of the talk pages for "controversial" topics. Wikipedians clearly push personal agendas and will argue over what sources to include/exclude (sometimes from the same publications) in order to make an article say what they want. As well and use and abuse cliques and admin privileges to make sure their topics are covered the way they want them covered. Once Wiki states something if a journalist wants to be quoted in the wiki article they better agree with what the article says. If they don't they'll just be ignored anyway, so might as well cash in on those citation bucks, which might not be a lot, but it's likely more than zero.
"Now we know", "And knowing is half the battle". -G.I. Joooooe
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @06:54PM
> FYI, I work with climate data.
Are you now claiming to be a climatologist?
(Score: 2) by Vanderhoth on Monday January 04 2016, @07:03PM
No, I am not.
"Now we know", "And knowing is half the battle". -G.I. Joooooe
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @07:29PM
You'd better not. Only climatologists are allowed to interpret climate data. If anyone else does it, we burn them at the stake.
(Score: 2) by Vanderhoth on Monday January 04 2016, @07:59PM
I'd settle for someone with a reasonable understanding of math, basic statistics and how models actually work.
"Now we know", "And knowing is half the battle". -G.I. Joooooe
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @11:56PM
So just an utterly irrelevant detail you threw in to give your claims false legitimacy.
I am not surprised.
(Score: 2) by Vanderhoth on Tuesday January 05 2016, @01:55AM
The point is, I've seen the data first hand which is why I know the claims journalist are making are mostly sensationalized bullshit.
That's the real kicker though. I have a background that's heavily math based and I know I can't make inferences on data journalist pass off as an inevitable doomsday, and yet no one questions them because, "a new study shows..."
"Now we know", "And knowing is half the battle". -G.I. Joooooe
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 05 2016, @07:39AM
. I have a background that's heavily math based and I know I can't make inferences
Wow, just Wow! This level of self-awareness is so rare here on SoylentNews! Now, if you could just stop making inferences about journalism, a discipline about which it is obvious you know nothing?
(Score: 2) by Vanderhoth on Tuesday January 05 2016, @11:32AM
Journalist are suppose to report the facts, not insert their personal bias and misinformation to sway public opinion. I can't even count the number of times I've read, "A new study shows...", then gone and read the study only to find out it says the opposite of what was being reported, or the study is bumpkiss based on a sample size of ten people, or was a firggn twitter poll. What's worse is when you catch a journalist making false claims or getting the information wrong other journalists and their hippy dippy followers will step in to protect them rather than just tell the truth and admit they were wrong.
It seems all that's required to be a "journalist" these days is to have a blog with a following, if you're mad take it out on the "professional bloggers" and "journalists" who are ruining the profession, not some rando on the internet telling it like it is.
"Now we know", "And knowing is half the battle". -G.I. Joooooe
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 05 2016, @12:10PM
Wow, just wow. It's 2016, I can't even.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by bradley13 on Monday January 04 2016, @08:45PM
You talk about it using the example of climate data, and you're right: all sides have an ax to grind. Essentially no one even tries to present you with the objective truth.
If you read the history of this case, which includes something like 20 years of backstory, the federal government's hands are anything but clean. The people at the center of the story own a ranch that is nearly surrounded by a wildlife refuge. The refuge has grown by taking over neighboring ranches, and the federal bureaucrats are irritated by these people who don't want to sell. So the feds have done all sorts of unpleasant things, to try to drive them into capitulation. Just one example: barricading the roads they use to access their own land, even though the roads exist, and have been used for decades. Another example: prosecuting them for setting wildfires, using terrorism laws. Whatever the law around wildfires (and this is a huge gray zone), prosecuting them as terrorist is idiocy. And "re-sentencing" after someone has served their sentence and been released? In what kind of justice system does that make sense?
I'm not saying that occupying the wildlife refuge headquarters makes any sense - it doesn't. But I totally understand why certain groups of people are totally fed up with the feds. The federal government is a power-hungry monstrousity, and its bureaucrats demand your obeisance. If you're in a position where that doesn't matter, then you don't understand how utterly unjust this can become.
Just another random example: I have an acquaintance who blew off filing his taxes - out of sheer laziness - for ten years. Finally got caught, fair enough. Worked out a payment plan with the IRS, including plenty of penalties, fair enough. But the IRS has him where it wants him. Regularly, two or three times a year, he finds that the IRS has emptied his bank account, even though he hasn't missed a payment. Of course, this causes his mortgage payment to be late, check to bounce, etc.. He complains, they put the money back - but no apology, and certainly no compensation for the very real costs that this incurs. Why do they do it? Because they can, and because no one holds the federal bureaucrats responsible for abusing their power.
If you get on the wrong side of power-loving, panty-waisted federal bureaucrats, they can and will make your life hell. If you haven't witnessed this, you have no idea just how bad it can get. I totally understand how people can say "enough", even if the actions they take may seem a bit strange to people who haven't been in their situation.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @06:35PM
My God! It will be SystemD all over again!
These people must be stopped!
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @07:32PM
"...by a fabricated video"
I don't think that word means what you think it does, but please do keep repeating it for the cause.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @07:35PM
The video was Photoshopped, I tells you! I could tell by some of the pixels!
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Monday January 04 2016, @07:57PM
Falsified? misleadingly edited? stupid-as-fuck-and-purely-intended-to-be-provocation?
Whatever.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Monday January 04 2016, @05:10PM
Also, there was a significant-sized peaceful protest march about it, and most of those in the protest march didn't want anything to do with the plan to engage in armed rebellion.
But this is nothing new for the Bundy folks. Cliven Bundy has all but stated that he's in armed rebellion against the United States. And his reasons are described perfectly in the following pair of quotations:
- "The one I get the grazing fee bill from is the United States government. I don’t recognize them having any jurisdiction or authority over this land."
- "I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro. ... They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom."
All available evidence suggests that the Bundy family completely stopped recognizing the federal government's authority on January 20, 2009, the day that "the Negro" became the duly elected president of the United States.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Monday January 04 2016, @05:25PM
And Bundy and friends are stirring these people up without putting their own necks on the line.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 4, Informative) by Hawkwind on Monday January 04 2016, @09:16PM
Interesting article from Oregon Public Broadcasting. Goes in to how extreme Mormonism is the driving force behind this. First time I've stumbled across this angle.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Monday January 04 2016, @09:37PM
I didn't know they were Mormons. I just figured they typoed the 'n'.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Monday January 04 2016, @09:45PM
Err, typoed the "m" in "typoed the 'n'". Damnit!
Okay, so I have some serious ass typoing the typoing problems. But see how easy it is?! Typos are really easy, with the adding letters and the putting letters where they don't belong!
Yeah, I'll get my things.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 05 2016, @12:13PM
Sounds like you are the mormo here, my friend.
No wait, it was the 'm' I needed to remove. You big ormon.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday January 04 2016, @10:47PM
Cliven appeared on television with a pamphlet by W. Cleon Skousen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Cleon_Skousen [wikipedia.org] on almost every occasion. Ol' Cleon pretty much defines wacko right-wing Mormonism, but guess who else considers himself a follower? Yes, Ben Carson, and he's a neuro-surgeon, so there can't be any craziness here, right? Can we divide the non-orthodox Mormons into the pedophile polygamists ( Warren Jeffs), and the Moroni Successionists? Of course, the lines are faint. Skousen was born in Canada, spent time at a Mormon community in Mexico, and as you may recall, Romney's father was born in Mexico. Many Mormons left the US when the church was "encouraged" to have a "revelation" renouncing polygamy, as a condition of Utah statehood. I guess many (or at least 15) Latter Day Saints are still upset about that.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @11:03PM
Hate to interrupt but... BEN CARSON IS A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST. Ok, go on with your mormon bashing there...
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday January 04 2016, @11:21PM
. BEN CARSON IS A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST.
Yes, I know, you don't have to shout. Do you have to be a mormon to be a follower of a mormon right-wing nutjob? Besides, Mormonism is actually just 19th Century Scientology, complete with magic "seer stones" and a Xenu named "God", so it is not that far away from other fundie pretenders to true, universal, established by Jesus his own self, Christianity. Or maybe Carson just doesn't know. He seems to be a bit, um, conservative, when it comes to knowing stuff.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 05 2016, @04:04AM
First, these chumps are just a bunch of terrorists with guns.
Definitely NOT a militia.
-THIS- is a militia. Fayetteville Independent Light Infantry [google.com]
Has actually fought in wars.
In continuous existence since 1793.
Has an actual chain of command--not just a ragtag band of idiots.
there was a significant-sized peaceful protest march
Related:
Oregon Considers Wall to Keep Out Angry White Men [newyorker.com]
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Informative) by VLM on Monday January 04 2016, @05:22PM
The ranchers may be common criminals, (they were convicted as such)
Oh I wouldn't say that, based on the facts.
They were sentenced to more than half a murder conviction and almost half a million bucks because the government doesn't like them. Not exactly "common criminals".
They may or may not have poached a deer, and they definitely did a controlled burn of invasive species without filling out all the permits. That's all they did.
If they were being treated as common criminals, here's a stereotypical state land enforcement action:
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/field-notes/wisconsin-pair-convicted-of-poaching-40-deer [fieldandstream.com]
So killing a deer means one day in the slammer per deer, two hours of community service per deer, a hundred bucks per deer, and no legal hunting for half a decade, if the state prosecutes you.
On the other hand, if the feds prosecute you, and you've been declared an enemy of the state, its a half a million bucks and half a decade in prison.
That seems juuuuust a little unfair.
Its hard to get a straight answer on fire code violation enforcement. I suppose if you treat what they did as a rather severe violation of OSHA rules by a major business, then $50K violation fee might not have been out of line. Of course if they didn't remove the invasive species, they'd get cited just as bad, so they'd have to hire $50K worth of illegal immigrants to hand pick the invasive weeds. Either way they'd be out tens of thousands of dollars.
Nope they're definitely not being treated like common criminals. They are getting the enemy of the state treatment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 04 2016, @06:34PM
They were sentenced to more than half a murder conviction and almost half a million bucks because the government doesn't like them. Not exactly "common criminals".
They were given the minimum sentence based on being convicted of their crime. They poached, they started a fire to cover up the crime and burned hundreds of hectares of public land, they were duly convicted beyond a reasonable doubt of these activities, and were given the minimum sentence.
Perhaps you're right. Had they been "common" criminals they would have gotten a heavier sentence ... something in the mid-range maybe ... instead of the minimum reserved for the privileged.
(Score: 3, Informative) by M. Baranczak on Monday January 04 2016, @08:08PM
They may or may not have poached a deer, and they definitely did a controlled burn of invasive species without filling out all the permits. That's all they did.
That's not what the federal prosecutors are saying. I'm certainly not assuming that the prosecutors are telling the truth, but it seems that a jury agreed with them, so at the very least you should read their side of the story: http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison [justice.gov]