SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
from the I-thought-the-name-was-bacconmuffinnews dept.
After several early attempts, we have settled on a process for deciding on the final name for this site currently known as SoylentNews.org. You'll need to log in and go to: userprefs/homepage and check the box marked "Willing to Vote" if you'd like to participate (do this now, the submission round will go out soon). The vote will occur using an email-based solution loosely based on the Debian/Condercet method that we cooked up. Note: checking this box will indicate that we are scraping your email address from the database for participation (this is completely opt-in). If you wish not to participate, just make sure this box is unchecked (this is the default).
We are opening the floor to name suggestions. If you have suggested a name earlier, you'll need to re-submit it through this email voting system. Though we prefer available domains, if you have pre-purchased a domain (eg: to prevent squatters), by submitting the name you are stating that you are the owner of the domain(s) and will give it without strings attached to this project if it were to be chosen.
The criteria for an acceptable name:
- Unique and free of obvious trademarks
- Ideally be a bit technological/geeky and signal the site is "news"
- Domain should be available in all permutations: .com/.net/.org
- Easy to pronounce
- Easy to type
- Easy to 'market' or has a "hook" (imagine a mug with the name, a logo, slogans, plays on words, etc.)
- Passes the girlfriend / wife / significant other / random person at work - test
This is how it will work:
- The first round will go out asking for name submissions
- Submissions will remain open for 7 days
- The community will vote to yield 5 names
- Staff will vote and produce 5 names
- A final vote on all 10 names will be held
- At this point, the staff will have a second full vote on the same ten items the community voted on
- The result of this vote, and the community vote, including its runoff, will then be published
- The staff vote is the final decision. We have to live with this. But the community will have a powerful influence on the final staff vote.
If you're interested:
NCommander adds: So its finally here, and I wanted to apologize for the long delay before this actually happened. To the editoral team, please bump this to the top of the index for the next 24 hours so everyone gets a chance to see it (click 'fastforward' then save to autoupdate the timestamp). I promise a Featured Story option is coming in the next major update so we don't have to deal with this!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by prospectacle on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:04AM
Congratulations! I know it seems like it's taken a long time to the staff who have been working on it, but a few weeks to refine a voting system is really quite fast. The time spent is nothing compared to how valuable it will be to have a good system worked out.
This is especially true since this first vote will lay the groundwork for future, important votes.
The core of any organisation is how the votes are cast and counted. You could spend years refining it and it would still be worth it.
Thanks to everyone, and especially audioguy.
If a plan isn't flexible it isn't realistic
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by timbim on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:48AM
Settle down, spaz.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by LeadFreeSucks on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:27AM
RollTheDice.org
Long time lurker at the other place, f*ck dice and beta.
Too many trolls there, more good info here.
Not a coder, I just repair the stuff your code runs on. Somebody has to fix that crap!
(Score: 2) by buswolley on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:55PM
soylentnews.org
alphadot.org
reddot.org he he he the red slashdot sounds like reddit
subicular junctures
(Score: 5, Insightful) by zizban on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:23AM
I like the current name actually. Simple and easy to remember.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by iroll on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:34AM
Second.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by buswolley on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:02AM
Why kill your brandname?
subicular junctures
(Score: 5, Informative) by mrcoolbp on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:33AM
A formal vote on a new name was promised before we even launched the site you are currently using. We are trying to keep that promise.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 5, Funny) by davester666 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:43AM
What the hell am I going to do with 500 Soylent News Is People t-shirts if the name changes?
(Score: 2, Funny) by LeadFreeSucks on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:32AM
You could always push for a re-run of Soylent Green on Hulu. /what do I know, i'm just a solder monkey ;-)
(Score: 2) by Blackmoore on Wednesday April 09 2014, @01:42PM
Pft. i have 200 AltSlash and another 300 BuckFeta..
(Score: 2) by buswolley on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:59PM
Sell them for double the original price. Collector item now (for those in the know)
subicular junctures
(Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:25PM
I'd raise an error 500.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:21PM
Take a laundry pen and cross out "Is" and write in "Was" instead. :-)
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by dilbert on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:34AM
(Score: 3, Funny) by Tork on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:38AM
As for the girlfriend test... what are you worried about, them mistaking it for a porn site? I mean they'd have to imag... eww.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by TK on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:00PM
It's Soylent News not Soylent Nudes.
The fleas have smaller fleas, upon their backs to bite them, and those fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum
(Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:31PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 1) by iroll on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:52PM
Well, you get a gold for mental gymnastics :p
(Score: 2, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:26PM
Only the Germans and the Japanese would consider that "porn."
(Score: 1) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 09 2014, @09:25PM
If they would change the color scheme to green, it would line up a lot better with the tagline "...is people."
If you don't get it, you need to brush up on your old, bad, SciFi movie literacy.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Geotti on Thursday April 10 2014, @03:24AM
Because brands are insignificant? Are you a marketing major?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 11 2014, @04:18PM
Because your dick is insignificant? Are you an ass?
(Score: 1) by soylentsandor on Thursday April 17 2014, @03:16PM
Thirded (for obvious reasons).
(Score: 3, Informative) by prospectacle on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:43AM
I believe it will be one of the candidates
If a plan isn't flexible it isn't realistic
(Score: 5, Informative) by mrcoolbp on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:45AM
This is correct, soylentnews.org will be one of the options.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 5, Funny) by iroll on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:01AM
And if it doesn't win, we'll just fork and start all over!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Reziac on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:44AM
Good! besides, SoylentNews already has my vote. :)
As someone else says, why kill an existing brand? Obviously it's easy to remember, or we wouldn't be here. :)
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:36AM
It's a terrible name. Nothing to do with the original, not nerdy at all and it sounds like some nature-friendly pregnant women blog.
pipedot.org got it right, close to the original, catchy and understood by nerds. We need something in that direction
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:40AM
...and Pipedot has a cool logo.
Can we buy Pipebot out too?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by M. Baranczak on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:42PM
"Close to the original" is just another way of saying "unoriginal".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:53PM
I prefer unoriginal over of the utter unrelated and misleading name "soylentnews"
(Score: 2) by buswolley on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:50PM
I am not a fan of pipe dot name.
subicular junctures
(Score: 1) by rival on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:04PM
Agreed; while we geeks get the reference, there's a good chance that others (think stupid filters) may think pipedot is some sort of drug-related site, and hence NSFW.
(Score: 2) by buswolley on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:21PM
I've never |. in bash before. What would it do?
subicular junctures
(Score: 2) by hybristic on Wednesday April 09 2014, @09:20PM
go do it and report back!
(Score: 2) by stderr on Wednesday April 09 2014, @11:47PM
Have you /.'ed in bash?
Neither of them makes sense on their own in bash, but maybe |. is part of a longer command, like foo|./bar or awk '/foo|.bar/ { print }'.
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 2) by buswolley on Thursday April 10 2014, @12:46AM
well yes. Of course..If I were to direct it to a file in the current directory...but just |. ?
subicular junctures
(Score: 2) by stderr on Thursday April 10 2014, @01:41AM
Then you would have used "./", not "/.", but even in that case, you didn't use "just /." (or "just ./"), did you?
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 1) by J053 on Thursday April 10 2014, @01:19AM
"Yes, just browse to aitch tee tee pee slash slash slash dot dot com"
How about "httpslash.com"?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by q.kontinuum on Wednesday April 09 2014, @11:25PM
How long do you want this site to be a slashdot-wannebe? This is already history, let the site stand on their own merits, for gods sake... I definitely prefer Soylentnews
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 2) by xlefay on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:20PM
This is a terrible idea!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:41PM
w00t w00t
(Score: 2) by xlefay on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:46PM
oops, replied to the wrong comment. lol
(Score: 2) by crutchy on Thursday April 24 2014, @07:52AM
haha you dingbat :-P
(Score: 1) by barnhd1 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:53AM
In all due respect, I love the site, but wouldn't mind a name change
(Score: 3, Informative) by mrcoolbp on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:56AM
A proper vote on the name change was promised from the very beginning, we are now (finally) delivering on that promise.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 4, Interesting) by FuckBeta on Wednesday April 09 2014, @09:11PM
Yeah, for people who use email. .gov issued picture ID to vote?
Only people with email can vote?
Isn't that like only allowing folks who can afford to buy a
Anyone who has been paying attention isn't using email.
Maybe we don't want our online comments tied to our real world identities forever.
Bad choice. Put some sort of poll where only registered users can vote.
Quit Slashdot...because Fuck Beta!
(Score: 3, Funny) by VLM on Wednesday April 16 2014, @03:38PM
Yeah and we need an option for people who don't use the internet
(Score: 2, Informative) by Buck Feta on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:35AM
"Butts" is simpler and easier to remember (not that I'm advocating that particular moniker).
- fractious political commentary goes here -
(Score: 2) by egcagrac0 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:19AM
Yeah, but the domains are probably expensive.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @10:10AM
Brilliant! Let's alienate the entire female segment of the market, and attract every lonely H.I.V. donor on the internet.
(Score: 3, Informative) by egcagrac0 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:56PM
Most of the women I know like butts.
(Score: 1) by francois.barbier on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:54PM
The breast news for the nerds?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @10:30AM
"bigbutts" is easier to remember and... ...
you other brothers can't deny
that when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist
and a round thing in your face
But(t) anyway, where was I? .com, .net nor .org is available for that name.
Neither
(Score: 4, Insightful) by zocalo on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:12AM
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @01:31PM
Psh, casual.
I never close the tab.
(Score: 2) by buswolley on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:39PM
Pffhh, amateur. Accruing 1 tab per story, since the beginning of soylentnews.
subicular junctures
(Score: 1) by meisterister on Wednesday April 09 2014, @10:44PM
Pffffffffffft, newbie. Opening one tab per comment AND per story, since the beginning of soylentnews.
(May or may not have been) Posted from my K6-2, Athlon XP, or Pentium I/II/III.
(Score: 1) by strattitarius on Tuesday April 29 2014, @02:17AM
Soylenites. It is also not great, but better than something with lentils in it. Really? Soy - lentils? That's too rich.
Slashdot Beta Sucks. Soylent Alpha Rules. News at 11.
(Score: 1) by zigbigadoorlue on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:21AM
I really like the current name but has anyone addressed the fact the soylent green is copyrighted? Or is this covered under parody? I don't think SN could defend itself if MGM came knocking.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:45AM
You can't copyright a movie title, but you can trademark it. But as I recall, "Soylent Green" came out before that trend began. I suspect that it's safe, and a rather funny parody as well.
(Score: 2) by stderr on Thursday April 10 2014, @01:05AM
More importantly, trademarks are divided into classes. "Apple" can be a trademark of both a computer company (class 9) and a record label (class 41) because those are different classes.
As far as I can tell, movies (i.e. "Cinema presentations") is covered by class 41, "Education; providing of training; entertainment; sporting and cultural activities.", while this site (if it's "News agencies". Is it?) probably would be covered by class 38, "Telecommunications".
But then again, IANAL...
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 2) by egcagrac0 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:56AM
The color that jumps out at me is a red (not a green), so I think we're safe.
(Score: 1) by bookreader on Wednesday April 09 2014, @09:27AM
True, easy and simple to remember.
On the other hand, my first association about 'soylent' is the food substitute [wikipedia.org]. Unless someone knows the history about /. and so on, how he is expected to think this site is for nerd news and not about the food?
Still, how we are going to avoid the Open Office trap? For many years people were told 'use Open Office instead of MS Office'. Than the split came and the new motto is 'use Libre Office'. Wait, what, you used to say to use Open Office ...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @01:39PM
Well, my first association is something which could also be considered to be a food substitute ... but is green and made of people.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by ArhcAngel on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:34PM
So if I were to extrapolate on that premise I would come to the conclusion this site is in fact a news substitute.
(Score: 1) by q.kontinuum on Wednesday April 09 2014, @11:32PM
I don't think people getting confused that easily is the target audience here ;-)
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Nerdanel on Wednesday April 09 2014, @09:53AM
In the Soylent group of products, only Soylent Green is secretly made of people. The older Soylent Red and Soylent Yellow are not. When you think about it, you can't feed a non-collapsing population with only its dead.
But really, all the Soylents are mass produced "food" product and distributed to the masses who can't afford real food in a dystopian future. Soylent is corporate, homogenized, lowest-common-denominator, made of the cheapest available ingredients, and the very essence of closed-source. I think that's not what this site is supposed to stand for.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Wednesday April 09 2014, @01:59PM
But really, all the Soylents are mass produced "food" product and distributed to the masses who can't afford real food in a dystopian future. Soylent is corporate, homogenized, lowest-common-denominator, made of the cheapest available ingredients, and the very essence of closed-source. I think that's not what this site is supposed to stand for.
No, but that's exactly the future we have to look forward to, so we might as well enjoy parodies like this.
(Score: 2) by dmc on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:20PM
Maybe you can help me better understand that Matrix movie?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:30PM
(Score: 3, Funny) by Reziac on Thursday April 10 2014, @04:46AM
Heh, good one, AC -- yep, SoylentNews is all the news I need for my brain to be properly nourished. Works for me!
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 1) by meisterister on Thursday April 10 2014, @12:33AM
[sprouts neckbeard and fedora] But then it would be so ironic.
(May or may not have been) Posted from my K6-2, Athlon XP, or Pentium I/II/III.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @03:30PM
It's an all in one food that can overcome disturbances in the natural food supply, allowing you to enjoy traditional food occasionally rather than depending on it for survival. // /. = traditional food here
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:43PM
I dislike it.
- It refers to a cheesy 1970s pop sci fi book
- It refers to cannibalism, ffs
- It doesn't roll off the tongue
- It refers to cannibalism
- It's gross
- Its grosseness and lame / disgusting references will turn people off
- We can do better
(Score: 2) by FuckBeta on Wednesday April 09 2014, @09:15PM
I agree. It disturbs me.
I don't want to think of cannibalism and Edward G. Robinson dying of cancer every time I want to read the news.
Also - "it's people" refers to the 'Charlton Heston and the statue of liberty moment' when the protagonist realises that corpses from state sponsored euthanasia were being boiled, rendered, and processed into foodstuffs.
Quit Slashdot...because Fuck Beta!
(Score: 1) by Joe Desertrat on Thursday April 10 2014, @01:25AM
"I like the current name actually. Simple and easy to remember."
And I already have it in my bookmarks as "Soylent News".
(Score: 1) by Hell_Rok on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:30AM
I've ticked the box to say I'm willing to vote.
Just out of curiosity, will we be getting the actual numbers from the votes or only the list of the 5 survivors?
(Score: 3, Informative) by mrcoolbp on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:43AM
We will publish the results from the final votes. When you receive the final 5, they will be ranked according to their popularity (audioguy will correct me if I'm wrong here).
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 1) by Murdoc on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:46PM
Final 5!?! Last time I was promised that they'd reveal the "Final Five", I had to wait forever to find out, and even then they only revealed four of them... I had to wait even longer to learn who was the final one!
(Score: 3, Funny) by unitron on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:35AM
...doesn't seem to be taken.
something something Slashcott something something Beta something something
(Score: 4, Funny) by sgleysti on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:54AM
yes, but finalname2.org is slightly better
(Score: 2) by Marand on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:44AM
Screw that, let's just go straight to finalname11.org. Can't get any better than that.
(Score: 1) by Hawkwind on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:49AM
It doesn't go up to 11, or have you been messing with the amp again?
(Score: 2) by egcagrac0 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:41PM
UltimateMoniker0x0b.org it is.
(Score: 2) by oodaloop on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:20PM
I was always partial to someonestolemydomainname2734652.com
Many Bothans died to bring you this comment.
(Score: 4, Funny) by buswolley on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:18AM
how about finalbeta.org ?
subicular junctures
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:20AM
I'm voting for myfinalform.org.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:35AM
I'd expect a high probability of overlap between the 5 names selected by the community and the 5 names selected by the staff. In which case, together they would not be 10 names total. So how do you plan to handle this?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:32PM
We may also find domains aren't available, trademarked, etc. The results are ranked so we can always just grab the next one lower down from the list.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:44PM
The difference is that for unavailable domains, you have only one list, and thus an unique ordering. But for the ten final candidates you've got two lists, and thus have to decide which list you draw the additional name(s) from. Since both lists are affected in the very same way by shared names, you cannot simply say you choose from the list less names were taken from.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by moo kuh on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:30AM
In the spirit of our origins, I suggest www.newsdotorg.net.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:04PM
I like the concept, but I get the impression that http://news.org/ [news.org] are the kind of domain parking / squatting outfit that might try to extract money out of us if we went for www.newsdotorg.net
Also it's not geeky enough
(Score: 2) by egcagrac0 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:16PM
I'd worry more about News Corp [wikipedia.org] than news.org.
(Score: 2) by WizardFusion on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:41AM
While I do appreciate the commitment to keep your promises on the site name, I think that it's been too long now and it's ingrained in the browser history/favourites/bookmarks.
I say keep it as is.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by mrcoolbp on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:34PM
It's now or never, and luckily we can setup a redirect.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 1) by q.kontinuum on Thursday April 10 2014, @12:07AM
Fair enough. Participate in the vote and make your opinion count there. (I agree and will vote for it as well)
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:43AM
quick... we need to establish organisations to sink their claws into as many staff members as possible, including bribery and threats... otherwise it won't be true democracy
(Score: 2, Interesting) by crutchy on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:59AM
4e455753.org is available
NEWS in hex ascii:
4e = N
45 = E
57 = W
53 = S
78698783.org is available
NEWS in decimal ascii:
78 = N
69 = E
87 = W
83 = S
if you forget the address, you just need to know how to construct it
http://www.stringfunction.com/string-hex.html [stringfunction.com]
http://www.stringfunction.com/ascii-decimal.html [stringfunction.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @01:33PM
In that case, I'd prefer 4e656773.org. It's less like shouting.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @01:35PM
This is clever, and definitely passes the nerdy site, but it would mean absolutely nothing to anyone currently outside of the community. Even nerds. If I saw a string of hex.org, I would not bother to translate it, I would just assume it is a virus deployment website, and move on.
(Score: 2) by TK on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:14PM
Hear Hear!
If I saw "Soylent News" on a t-shirt, coffee mug or billboard, I could remember that for later. If I saw a random string of numbers and letters, if I even mentally parsed it as hexadecimal, I sure as hell wouldn't remember enough of the url to even $SearchEngineNameUsedAsAVerb it later that day.
The fleas have smaller fleas, upon their backs to bite them, and those fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum
(Score: 3, Informative) by sgleysti on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:58PM
This is perhaps the most appropriate place to mention that 8675309 is a prime number.
Thank you, that is all.
(Score: 2) by oodaloop on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:03PM
mind==blown [aprimenumber.com]
Many Bothans died to bring you this comment.
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:07PM
Mind == blown
If it wasn't just such a hard to remember name >.;;;;
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by Adrian Harvey on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:36PM
I guess you could just license the music from Tommy Tutone and auto-play it to everyone who visits. Everyone would remember it, all right! Maybe no one would come back, but you would have the satisfaction of leaving the tune going round in everyone's heads for days.
For those who missed the 80's, or those who miss the 80's, here's the oblig. YouTube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axLRUszuu9I [youtube.com]
And, I had no it was prime, either... I wonder if Tommy knew
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:29PM
Well, it's just the 582161th prime. Is 582161th-prime.org already taken? :-)
Oh wait, 582161 itself is also prime. It's the 47752th prime.
Now 47752 unfortunately is not a prime, but it is 0xba88, which is easy to remember. Also you might read "ba" as shortened "beta". I'm not sure what to make of the 88, though.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by stderr on Wednesday April 09 2014, @10:17AM
Why?
For some of the good suggestions, the name only makes sense, if it's a ".net". For other suggestions, the name might only make sense, if it's a ".org" domain.
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 5, Informative) by paulej72 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @12:06PM
If all three are available then there is less chance that there will be a IP issue with the name.
Team Leader for SN Development
(Score: 3, Insightful) by stderr on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:27PM
Not really... Let's say foobar.com, foobar.net and foobar.org were all available, but foobar."everything else" were all taken by "the foobar group". Does foobar.{com,net,org} still sound like a good choice, if we only look at IP issues?
Besides, isn't IP issues already covered by the first criteria, "Unique and free of obvious trademarks"?
Suggestion: Change the first criteria to "... obvious IP issues" and drop the third criteria.
As long as you keep the third criteria, you're saying no to some really good suggestions.
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:37PM
I presume you mean a trademark issue with the name.. I'm fairly sure the DNS system can handle different IPs for different domain names :)
(Score: 2) by stderr on Thursday April 10 2014, @01:19AM
DNS is WAY cooler than that.
Not only can it handle different IPs for different domain names, it can also handle different IPs for the same domain name AND!!! the same IP for different domain names.
Now, how cool is that?!
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday April 10 2014, @04:49AM
Not to mention the inevitable domain squatters if you don't also own the .COM -- and since browsers default to .COM, you lose that traffic (some of which will never figure out the problem) and help enrich a squatter.
So, yeah -- all three unencumbered makes sense.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 1) by Buck Feta on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:17PM
dolphins.net is already taken. Dammit!
- fractious political commentary goes here -
(Score: 2) by RobotMonster on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:19PM
sneaker.net [sneaker.net] is taken too, and all it does is redirect to google :-/
(Score: 5, Interesting) by kevinl on Wednesday April 09 2014, @10:27AM
I don't care what the final name is, but please don't plan to officially support a "share on" button. Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, StumbleUpon, Slashdot, Digg, etc. all have those buttons all over the net, and it frankly creeps me the fuck out now. Even though this is technically a social news site, can we avoid the rest of the garbage that comes with that ecosystem?
(Score: 3, Funny) by WizardFusion on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:33PM
I agree, I block all of these on all the sites I visit. If I wanted to be sociable, I would go outside.
(Score: 2) by skullz on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:45PM
Above++
All I need is for FB && Google to start reading my SN crap and every page I visit is going to be plastered with crispy, succulent, salty bacon ads.
Mmmmmm, bacon...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:52PM
I can sympathize that we don't want the clutter of "share on" buttons.
But I don't think we should necessarily rule out 'social media' altogether. Once there's a permanent name and things are fairly stable, we might want to start actively trying to recruit new users. Some of the kind of users we would want do use social media.
For example, I bet a large protion of Brian Krebs [twitter.com]'s 57800 Twitter followers would be quite at home here. Example 2: Linus Torvalds uses Google Plus [google.com].
So I would actually suggest that "share on" buttons should ideally be an optional feature that can be enabled in the user settings.
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:05PM
Recruit? I'm more of the thinking that if you build it, they will find it and come.
The Musk/Trump interview appears to have been hacked, but not a DDOS hack...more like A Distributed Denial of Reality.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:05PM
No one we want here uses Facebook.
(Score: 2) by egcagrac0 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:21PM
Not true. I will, however, stipulate that no one we want here uses "Share this on Facebook!" buttons.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:28PM
Fair enough. I have to admit I do use Facebook, but only when my (non-techie) wife sends me something there. I never actually post anything there, and don't really have any friends there.
(Score: 2) by hatta on Wednesday April 09 2014, @09:56PM
If you weren't married, you might find Facebook a little more useful.
(Score: 2) by hatta on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:30PM
Facebook is a tool. We want people here who are experts at the use of any tool.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:02PM
You want MySpace experts? Or AOL experts?
No thanks.
(Score: 2) by hatta on Wednesday April 09 2014, @09:49PM
Yes. If some hacker has found a practical use for those sites, I want to hear about it. The apparent uselessness of those sites would make that story all the more interesting.
(Score: 1) by q.kontinuum on Thursday April 10 2014, @12:04AM
Speak for yourself only ;-) I have a Facebook account and use it once in a while. (From a separate user account on my Fedora machine, explicitly set up for only this purpose - the account, not the whole computer.)
nevertheless I'd prefer to have no google analytics, Facebook ike, Twitter or whatever 3rd party crap as well.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 1) by VitalMoss on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:55PM
I don't know, why not? I mean, until facebook finally keels over and dies (Someone, get on making a decent social site please), it's how I communicate with a lot of my friends and family.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:20PM
There already is a better social networking "site"; it's called "Diaspora". The only kind of social networking anyone should be using is decentralized, so some shitty company like Facebook can't mine the data or pervert it some other way.
(Score: 1) by VitalMoss on Thursday April 10 2014, @03:42PM
It's not really a site, first off, on top of that most contacts are still on facebook or google+.
It's only good to have an alternative if people use it.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday April 10 2014, @04:27PM
Yep, the old chicken-and-egg problem.
But if people are going to continue to use Facebook (and G+), they really have no right to complain about Facebook's anti-privacy practices or any other practices. If you want to take control of what you share with others, and with whom, you need to use decentralized social networking.
(Score: 4, Informative) by WildWombat on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:10PM
Just an FYI but AdBlock Plus has a setting that hides all these buttons. I'd actually forgotten about them until you mentioned them.
Cheers,
--WW
(Score: 1) by dpp on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:20PM
Really glad you made this point. Happy to know I'm not the only one creeped-out by this phenomenon.
Besides "sharing", posting has become next to impossible nowadays, unless you "submit" to FB/Google+/Twitter/etc.
Firstly, I feel like those sites are "watching" everyone everywhere. "All your data belong to us".
Secondly, it disgusts me that when I come across an article somewhere and read a comment that I'd like to respond to - it's impossible as I'd be forced to create a Facebook/Google+/etc account.
As a worse-case scenario, where anonymous posting isn't allowed, I wouldn't mind as much if I had to create an account for a given site to post to it, however with the "Top 3/4" social-media sites forcing me join their club as the only means of publicly conversing on the WWW just seems very wrong and "closed".
It's like we've gone backwards - "now you can enter public discourse on the web, as long as you have an AOL or MSN account!"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by BradTheGeek on Wednesday April 09 2014, @10:57AM
I bought one the day beta was forced upon me. I only own the .org (.net is available and .com is parked and available for who knows what price, but owned since 2007 it appears). I would post it here, but I will wait for submission time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @12:45PM
as long as it has BACON in it, we're golden.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:25PM
Is this the last story about the name change? So from now on, everything will be done by email?
I actually think there should a front page story & discussion, a few days prior to each community vote, so that the options can be subject to some 'peer review'. This would allow people to make an informed decision about how to vote.
It's quite common in slashcode site polls to see comments like "I voted X, but having seen the above insightful comments I now think Y". Having a discussion in advance should eliminate that.
So based on the plan above, there would be a front page story & discussion at both step 3 and step 5.
(Posting AC to avoid undoing moderations. I don't think the moderate^post change announced here [soylentnews.org] is in place yet, is it?)
(Score: 5, Informative) by NCommander on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:29PM
We'll be posting to the main page, but the actual suggestion submission + vote is by email. And moderate^post isn't here yet, but I'm working on it :-/
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by skullz on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:39PM
SquintFeed.org!
Squint because I have poor eyesight.
Feed because of the news feed.
You could even make a squid the logo.
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:45PM
...and now you've practically guaranteed it to win.
The terribleness with Barrabas and now the long delay for a "voting system" and NOW the practical requirement that any proposed name already be reserved in 3 domains... you're officially WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME because you damn well know that SoylentNews is now a shoo-in.
You've stacked the deck. You've made it nearly impossible for any better name to succeed.
That sucks. It's the opposite of fair and transparent and community driven.
"Soylent News" is an awful, awful name for a tech news web site. It means nothing if you haven't heard of Soylent Green, and if you have heard of Soylent Green it means EATING GROUND HUMAN FLESH SMOOTHIES. It has a general public ick factor that is off the charts.
What a stupid name, and how vain of you to guarantee that it stays the name of this site.
You've done a disservice to the "community" you keep touting, in my opinion at least.
(Score: 2, Troll) by skullz on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:49PM
Someone's skinny jeans are a little too tight today.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Woods on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:06PM
He had a little too much Soylent Green.
(Score: 1, Troll) by mrcoolbp on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:19PM
Oh fiddlesticks, clearly you've found us out. The delay in holding the vote was entirely artificial and had nothing to do with trying to come up with a good plan, researching reliable online voting systems due to our mission never to hand over any user info to 3rd parties, coding and testing a solution, and then implementing it; instead, it was all a big ploy to "stack the deck" cementing us with a name there is clear distaste for so we can alienate as many as possible. /sarcasm
The "should be available in all permutations .com / .net / org" might be easy to satisfy if the name is actually unique. That being said, I don't think it's a deal breaker. Think of it as an ideal case, please. Use your best judgement. Also just to clarify you are not required to "reserve" a domain, just check if it's available for registration (please no for-sale-by-owner).
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:28PM
The effect is the exactly the same -- witness all the people above encouraging you to keep the name because everyone is so used to it. It's a foregone conclusion that this is the permanent site name. And that stinks. (In part because the name is bad and in part because we're now going through the pretense and wasted effort of a "vote".)
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Thursday April 10 2014, @03:56AM
There is sentiment to keep the name, and sentiment that it's "bad." You can't expect to please everyone. We apologize for the delay in getting the vote going, believe me, it took a lot of hard work. We didn't want to rush out a solution, we wanted to do this right. Unfortunately, that meant it took longer, but we are still going through with it.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 1, Troll) by maxwell demon on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:04PM
You should improve your reading skills.
The requirement is that if you have reserved a domain name you suggest, that you agree to give it without any strings attached (that is, you cannot buy a domain, suggest it, and then say "oh, that's my domain, but you can have that domain name ... for a thousand dollars."
The other requirement is that otherwise, the domain must be free on all three top-level domains (that is, if foo.com is already held by some unrelated person, you cannot suggest foo.org).
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:22PM
You should improve your understanding of the word "practical".
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:12PM
I cannot find a meaning of the word "practical" that would make the claim true.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by egcagrac0 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:00PM
My understanding is that they're more like crackers.
(Score: 1) by urza9814 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:54PM
Based on the rest of the comments here, it seems to me like the community is more in favor of keeping SoylentNews than the site admins...the only person I see consistently pushing for a new name is NCommander!
So...you want fair and transparent and community-driven AND INSTANT? As the saying goes...Cheap, fast, good: pick two. Frankly, as a web developer, I've been kinda shocked with how *quickly* this site has been making progress. I sure as hell couldn't work that fast.
So what's your suggestion?
No, only the green variety is human flesh. This site is apparently Soylent Red, which is just generic mass-produced nutrient crackers of some sort. ;)
(Score: 4, Interesting) by everdred on Wednesday April 09 2014, @02:56PM
li694-22.org for life!
(Score: 1) by Aiwendil on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:00PM
Why is the voting done via email? I would have guessed it would have made more sense with having it as another "preferences"-page and then just have a box/header (or maybe sent as an internal soylent-message) with "vote running"
Anyhow, I sadly enough won't participate since my email-adress given ends up at a /dev/null except for the few minutes when I actually expect an email to that account - good luck and publish the raw numbers afterwards, and do keep a forward from this domain if something else is chosen.
(Score: 4, Informative) by mrcoolbp on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:24PM
We finally chose this system for this vote as we think it has the least potential for ballot stuffing (no online voting system is perfect), and was the simplest to implement while meeting other requirements. It will likely be refined for future votes.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 1) by Aiwendil on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:02PM
Ahh, thanks for the quick reply.
However, I'm curious, what did stop you from using the soylent-messages? Or even better - both sending out the vote-related stuff as email and as soylent-mail [or to a user-selectable option] and then require input from either (or one specific)?
(I'm curious since I can't for the life of me figure out an instance where an email-address scraped from an account is less tamper-prone than a notification sent to the same account as was being scraped)
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Thursday April 10 2014, @03:48AM
The slash messaging system is kinda borked, and messing with slashcode for the vote only would have further delayed it. After a lot of research and discussion, this is what we came up with for better or worse.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 1) by fadrian on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:09PM
... after all, a rose by any other name, etc., etc.
What I'd really like to see is the stories' summary posted as part of the RSS feed. We all know that this decreases the amount of clicks for the main site (as one might realize that they're not interested in the article while browsing the RSS feed rather than clicking through to the site to read the summary), but it is a hell of a lot more convenient. All of the other RSS feeds I subscribe to do this. Your #1 competitor [slashdot.org] does this.
Lack of this capability is annoying enough that I am often tempted to take your RSS feed out of my Tech News section. Frankly, adding that feature would have been a better use of time than dicking about with a voting system so you can pick a name. Voting systems can be manipulated via the ground rules, which issues get voted on, etc. - actual features are much more useful.
That is all.
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:30PM
The RSS feed including the summary is a high priority issue on our issue tracker on GitHub [github.com], we will get to it. Changing the name sooner rather then later was also deemed important.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 1) by fadrian on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:42PM
Thanks for the first, but as for the latter, I still don't really get it. Yes, Soylent News is a pretty stupid name, but what web site these days doesn't have a stupid name? Oh well... Maybe someday I'll understand the world.
That is all.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:09PM
but what web site these days doesn't have a stupid name?
Exactly. Being "non-stupid" really isn't that useful; what's useful is having something catchy and easy to remember, which isn't already taken (the domains are available), which doesn't have any IP (trademark mainly) issues, and won't earn you a C&D letter from some not-really-related company saying your name conflicts with their trademarks somehow.
As long as it's unique and memorable, and comes up #1 on a Google (or DDG or Bing) search, that's all that matters.
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:10PM
A contest to rename the site was promised to the community from before we even had slash going; if we can't keep our promises to the community, how are we ask you guys to trust us and support us? I wanted this vote to happen ages ago, but circumstances make fools of us all :-/
Still always moving
(Score: 1) by GlennC on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:28PM
But I wouldn't spend too much time on it. Make a decision and move on.
I'm not going to vote. If the site is good, I'll stay, and if not I'll go.
The name doesn't matter to me.
Sorry folks...the world is bigger and more varied than you want it to be. Deal with it.
(Score: 2) by omoc on Wednesday April 09 2014, @03:59PM
I share this opinion. Although I think we should move away from "SoylentNews" and find something more in the pipedot.org direction, in the end the name doesn't matter too much. We only care about the core /. community and a significant amount of users is using this website already. You only need a catchy when you want other people talk about you ;)
(Score: 2) by RobotMonster on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:41PM
CatchyName.org, .net & .com all appear to be available ;-)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:48PM
Let's see ... both are compsed of two words, so that doesn't need any movement. But Soylent is 7 characters, while pip is only 4. So to move in the direction of pipedot, we have to remove characters, Let's just go the full way here (because it will make further steps easier) and drop three letters. The last three, because they are clearly the least significant.
Also "News" has one more letter than "dot", so we have to drop a letter, too (there's not much choice in the number of letters to drop here). For consistency, let's also drop the last.
So we arrive at SoylNew.org. But we still have to do something about the characters.
P is a bit before S, so we have to go backwards here. Same for o vs. i, y vs. p and l vs. e. Of course we have to be careful to not go beyond pipe, and to get a readable word. Let's use "Plug", that fulfils all the requirement
Now about the New vs. dot. D is before N, but O comes after E. T again is before W. So the directions are clear, we just have to find a word which fits the conditions. Gnu fulfills all the conditions.
So I think "PlugGnu,org" would fully fit your wish to go away from SoylentNews into the pipedit direction.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:30PM
are you drunk?
(Score: 1) by codemachine on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:06PM
Might it not make sense to put up a poll, and see if there is already an overwhelming consensus, before going to a more complicated setup?
I've seen professional sports teams choose their name in a simpler manner than we're going to be naming this site.
(Score: 2) by RobotMonster on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:39PM
Why lot let each member of the community choose one letter each? :)
How long can domain names be?
(Score: 1) by francois.barbier on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:04PM
Check this one out:r netaussilongue.com/ [fautvraime...longue.com]
http://fautvraimentetreconpouravoiruneadresseinte
It translates to something like:t ernet-address"
"you-must-really-be-stupid-to-have-such-a-long-in
(Score: 2) by stderr on Thursday April 10 2014, @02:19AM
Each part ("label") can be up to 63 characters long and the total length of a hostname must be 253 characters or less.
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 2) by RobotMonster on Thursday April 10 2014, @03:55AM
Damn that's not long enough for everybody to get a character each. We'll have to move to half-bits. :-)
I propose that each user gets to decide half a bit of the name, ordered by UID
(Score: 2) by skullz on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:41PM
Yeah but those are jocks. We're nerds.
What would a solution be if it wasn't over engineered?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @04:57PM
- boardkey.org : " the key when you're board. Board at your keyboard? Use the key! 'Yeah, I was on boardki last night..."
- twonews.org : Named after the version of slash that we're using; a oblique reference to the fact we aren't using Beta
- equaltilda.org: play on regex =~
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:05PM
(Score: 2) by metamonkey on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:02PM
http://httpcolonslash.org/ [httpcolonslash.org]
Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:58PM
age-tea-tea-pee-colon-slash-slash.org ;-)
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 3, Funny) by skullz on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:06PM
It should be http://age-tea-tea-pee-es-colon-slash-slash.org/ [age-tea-te...-slash.org] to show we take security seriously.
(Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Wednesday April 09 2014, @11:53PM
Oh, the irony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by stderr on Thursday April 10 2014, @02:23AM
Didn't you forget double-you-double-you-double-you somewhere?
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday April 10 2014, @05:51AM
No. Decidedly not. Look at the URLs both of this site and of Slashdot. Do you see a "www." there?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by stderr on Thursday April 10 2014, @06:45AM
Oops, sorry, this isn't the "make a long domain name"-thread.
My bad...
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @05:41PM
Bucking trends since 2014!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by rival on Wednesday April 09 2014, @06:22PM
LostDash.org: News and Nerdy Stuff, but it's the People that Matter
If you didn't catch it, lostdash.org is an anagram of slashdot.org. :-)
The .com, .net and .org domains are all available. I really wish I had the cash, but I'm completely strapped right now. If someone wants to secure them, hop on it!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:06PM
Here are some suggestions from an AC who never bothers registering for anything (although I did check the domain names)..
tailall
pipebrain
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @07:42PM
what's wrong with soylentnews? nothing.
at least you don't have a shitty name like pipedot.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by gishzida on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:37PM
Soylent [vegan lent? who Knew?] is less than appealing. The movie starred one of my least favorite actors [they should have gotten Shatner]... and it was sadly the last movie of Edward G. Robinson.
So if you insist I'll live but to give you a few ideas
apt-get-news.org [debian does news!]
sudonews.org [or .com] [a bit of a pun-ish name!]
or other plays upon this theme.
I do have a couple of domains I am not using: coolculture.net and dvusweb.com... no obligation, no strings. I'm offering to transfer them for community use gratis. I also have market-street.net but I don't think you are planning to open a stock / business news site any time soon so you probably don't need that one.
(Score: 1) by gishzida on Wednesday April 09 2014, @08:51PM
To clarify: I do not own apt-get... nor sudo... domains
I do own the other three domains.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 09 2014, @09:38PM
How about aptnews.org?
Who doesn't want news that's apt? If you want apt news, get aptnews!
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Wednesday April 16 2014, @08:54PM
I'll make sure these get in the running
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 1) by linuxrocks123 on Wednesday April 09 2014, @11:14PM
If you want to suggest a name, BUY THE NAME. If you don't buy the name, someone else who doesn't like the name can steal the name and keep it out of the running. Most of us wouldn't do something like that. A few assholes probably would.
This is on Page 2 ... too many people have commented here ... but maybe it'll be seen by NCommander ... or maybe I'll spam the next discussion on this issue with this.
---linuxrocks123
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Thursday April 10 2014, @03:09PM
You don't have to buy the name. Just submit it through the email voting system when you get the first round. That way your suggestion won't be viewable until it is alongside many others. Registering all those names would be expensive and time consuming of course, but still possible technically.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Friday April 11 2014, @07:17PM
Of course the first issue is that if your email bounces, you will never see the voting stuff at all - so make sure that address is actually valid.
Use plain text email only. And make sure any line wrapping is set to 70 characters or above - or off.
There are several thousands email programs and variants out there, -your refrigerator can probably send email-.
There is no practical way to write a program to decode all variants of html and other email in a week or two. Even large companies have trouble will all the variations and bugs.
So we have fallen back to the basic mode that is simple to parse and was the original format of email.
What is a plain text email?
Here is, in raw form, what a real plain text email looks like:
-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-
Return-Path:
X-Original-To: staffvote@staff.soylentnews.org
Delivered-To: staffvote@staff.soylentnews.org
Received: by boron.soylentnews.org (Postfix, from userid 1001)
id 2CEBD27A69; Mon, 31 Mar 2014 06:50:23 +0000 (UTC)
To: staffvote@staff.soylentnews.org
From: "Soylent Staff Vote"
Subject: [Soylent Staff Vote](FirstStaffP) Submissions for vote requested
Message-Id:
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 06:50:23 +0000 (UTC)
The actual poll question is:
What KIND of name should we use for the new Soylentnews name? (not
looking at names, but simply types of names)
What this is really about, however, is testing this new system. ...
-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-
.
Just 7 bit ascii characters, line wrapped at about 70 characters.
What is NOT a plain text email?
Any kind of html, mime, special encoding, etc.
Here is an example of an email that is NOT plain text (despite it claimimg to be):
.
-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-
Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="_025bb878-695c-4212-bf15-ef78a3f8630e_"
From: Sixpack
To: Soylent Staff Vote
Subject: RE: [Soylent Staff Vote](FirstStaffP) Submissions for vote requested
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:31:33 +1100
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To:
References:
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2014 08:31:33.0719 (UTC) FILETIME=[9F985670:01CF4CBB]
--_025bb878-695c-4212-bf15-ef78a3f8630e_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> To: staffvote@staff.soylentnews.org ...
> From: staffvote@staff.soylentnews.org
> Subject: [Soylent Staff Vote](FirstStaffP) Submissions for vote requested
> Date: Mon=2C 31 Mar 2014 06:50:23 +0000
>=20
> The actual poll question is:
>=20
> What KIND of name should we use for the new Soylentnews=20
> name? (not looking at names=2C but simply types of names)
>=20
> What this is really about=2C however=2C is testing this new=20
> system. Specifically I want to make sure that:
>=20
--_025bb878-695c-4212-bf15-ef78a3f8630e_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>=3B To: staffvot= ...
e@staff.soylentnews.org
>=3B From: staffvote@staff.soylentnews.org
=
>=3B Subject: [Soylent Staff Vote](FirstStaffP) Submissions for vote requ=
ested
>=3B Date: Mon=2C 31 Mar 2014 06:50:23 +0000
>=3B
>=
=3B The actual poll question is:
>=3B
>=3B What KIND of name sho=
-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-
That is mime encoded, further 'quoted-printable' encoded, and the second part contains html. That is NOT what we need to see.
You can email yourself and look at your own mail as a check, most email readers have some sort of 'raw' mode so you can see what is really there.
What if you have no way to send plain text?
We anticipated a few people might be in this situation. So we have made a good faith effort to TRY to decode this stuff, if possible.
If your mail is in -standard- mime format with a plain text and an html section, we may be able to decode it. No guarantees, but we have done some tests, at least.
On the other hand if you are using an old version of Outlook that ONLY sends non-standard 'x-html' mail with no plain text section and too long lines, it will most likely NOT be decoded. The same is true for all the really ghastly progams such as 'IncrediMail'
Sorry, but that is the best we can do for the moment.
(Score: 2) by mojo chan on Wednesday April 23 2014, @05:17PM
Will there at least be a warning if your reply was impossible to decode?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Wednesday April 23 2014, @08:16PM
Anything not decoded properly will be kicked out and hand checked.
If a -human- can't decode it, no promises. :-)
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Friday April 11 2014, @08:35PM
Expect three emails.
The first is asking for name submissions. It will have a section that looks something like this:
--- BEGIN VOTE ---
VOTE IDENTIFER: comvote
VOTING MODE: COLLECTION
VOTERID=nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
[my ranking] Proposed Poll Item
[9] soylentnews.org
--- END VOTE ---
Hit reply, and add your name suggestions like this:
> --- BEGIN VOTE ---
> VOTE IDENTIFER: comvote
> VOTING MODE: COLLECTION
> VOTERID=nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
>
> [my ranking] Proposed Poll Item
>
> [9] soylentnews.org
[9] coolestevah.com
[9] frumstat.com
[9] myname.org
>
> --- END VOTE ---
And then just hit SEND with no other changes.
Please do not discuss either your submissions or your votes publicly until we have reserved the top ones for the runoff vote. If one of yours is a top choice, we will contact you about this just prior to the runoff vote.
THE SECOND EMAIL is used to rank all the names collected. You can rank them using the numbers 1-9, and generally should rank according to your own feelings. Don't use a number more than once. You can use them all, or if you feel some are well under your favote, you can use lower numbers only. You do not have to use them in order.
That email will have a section in it that looks something like this:
--- BEGIN VOTE ---
VOTE IDENTIFER: comvote
VOTING MODE: FIRSTVOTE
VOTERID=nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
[my ranking] Proposed Poll Item
[](1) soylentnews.org
[](2) red.com
[](3) blue.org
[](4) green.us
[](5) purple.com
[](6) chartreuse.org
[](7) lightmauve.com
[](8) bluish.org
[](9) tan.tv
[](10) brown.net
[](11) pink.org
[](12) ltblue.se
[](13) gradient.net
--- END VOTE ---
Though with hundreds of people adding names, that could be a VERY much longer list. But you only need to rank at most nine, not all of them. Just your top nine favorites.
Hit reply, and rank like this:
> --- BEGIN VOTE ---
> VOTE IDENTIFER: comvote
> VOTING MODE: FIRSTVOTE
> VOTERID=nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
>
> [my ranking] Proposed Poll Item>
>
> [3](1) soylentnews.org
> [](2) red.com
> [2](3) blue.org
> [1](4) green.us
> [](5) purple.com
> [8](6) chartreuse.org
> [](7) lightmauve.com
> [4](8) bluish.org
> [](9) tan.tv
> [](10) brown.net
> [](11) pink.org
> [](12) ltblue.se
> [9](13) gradient.net
>
> --- END VOTE ---
Don't try to clean up the text, just insert your single numbers in the brackets. And hit send.
THE THIRD EMAIL is the runoff vote.
This works exactly like the vote above, except there will be fewer choices (just 10) to worry about.
Your best strategy for this vote is to vote only for your top choice, and perhaps your second with a lower number. So you might give your top choice a 9 and your second choice a 5. You might even only vote for one, since in a close race your second number could actually break a tie - and not in your favor.
(Score: 2) by lhsi on Saturday April 12 2014, @12:54PM
When ranking, are we ordering them so your favourite gets the number 1 rank, or is it a number of "points" to give out, so your favorite should be given a higher number with more points?
Early on in the comment I thought it was the first (ranking), but at the end it looks like the latter
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Monday April 14 2014, @03:18PM
When you receive the vote email: "9" is the top choice, 1 is the least favorite. Think about it as how many points you are giving each. No need to vote for every name, you could simply add "9" in the brackets to your favorite option and hit "reply."
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Monday April 14 2014, @03:20PM
Or think about it like you are moderating the entries, what "score" do they get?
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 1) by KritonK on Saturday April 12 2014, @04:26PM
For the name suggestion phase:
The instructions I got in the mail say that I should hit "reply", add my suggestions to the bottom of the list, and hit send. Hitting "reply" will prefix every line of the original message with "> ". Is this OK, or should I remove these characters? If I should leave them, should I prefix the lines that I add with "> "?
The list in the mail consists of the single entry "[9] soylentnews.com". Should I erase that "9", as soylentnews.com is not an item that I've added myself, or should I leave it there?
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Saturday April 12 2014, @06:31PM
What your mail program does to the reply is fine, including prefixing the '>' mark. Do not try to remove those, the program expects them.
You do not need to prefix yours with '>' either, the program expects that.
You do not need to erase anything, the program is expecting that. Really. :-)
It really IS just, hit reply, add your item as shown, hit send.
By the way, I have seen some of these come in now:
There is absolutely no need to add 'soylentsnews.com' to this list, and adding it more than once will have no effect. This first email is just for collecting new names, and I guarantee soylentnews.org WILL be on the list (ONCE) when the actual vote happens, so if that is what you favor don't worry about it.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday April 16 2014, @02:47PM
Shoulda just used Debian's "devotee" which has all the bugs worked out of the weirder formatting problems and peculiar ideas of ranking (like multiple selections at the same level, refusal to even comment on certain options, etc)
https://vote.debian.org/~secretary/devotee.git/ [debian.org]
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Friday April 18 2014, @04:23PM
...and requires PGP signed emails.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2) by VLM on Monday April 21 2014, @01:14PM
True but I was getting at the idea that its easier to patch out a test such that it always passes, than to re-implement all the parsing code.
Or to really be a jerk it would be a great excuse to set up keyserver.sn.org for semi-ACs and link to the real keyservers for non-ACs, to enforce encrypted email.
(Score: 2) by stderr on Tuesday April 22 2014, @02:28PM
No, it doesn't.
Devotee is a collection of multiply smaller programs, each taking care of their own part of the voting process. If you don't want to deal with all the PGP stuff, you can simply skip the program that checks the PGP signature.
I have actually said so multiple times already, e.g. a month ago, when I was still on #staff:
(Those timestamps are CET. It would be Mar 21 13:28:34/13:29:02 UTC.)
I know NCommander ignored a lot of the stuff I wrote on IRC (after all, that is why I left staff), but maybe he wasn't the only one ignoring me? You were on #staff at the time.
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Tuesday April 22 2014, @05:51PM
I missed that, I was at work at the time and talking to colleagues. For what it's worth, I was really hoping that you did look into Devotee, it seemed like the best option. I had no intention to offend you by looking into another solution. I was waiting to hear about your efforts, and was pursuing another avenue, and along the way I couldn't keep track of every effort. Unfortunately, you left the staff and at that point, it didn't seem like I could do more. Again, I apologize.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2) by stderr on Tuesday April 22 2014, @07:37PM
I did look into Devotee, but when I left staff, I didn't think there was any reason for me to keep working on something related to SoylentNews (or whatever the name will be). I did continue to look into Devotee for other reasons. :-)
As I think I have told you before, I wasn't offended that you or anyone else were looking into other solutions. People should do that.
As I also think I have told you already, I didn't leave because of you. If you look closely at the comment you replied to, it may contain a small hint (ok, a big hint) about why I left.
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday April 20 2014, @02:56AM
I accidentally sent my vote reply back from a different email account (all my primary email gets carboned to another account, and since I use them interchangeably I don't always notice right off which one I've got selected in SM when I'm reading/replying). Since I see it has this Voter ID number thingee, that shouldn't make any difference, right?
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Tuesday April 22 2014, @07:40PM
'Since I see it has this Voter ID number thingee, that shouldn't make any difference, right?'
Correct. Only the ID counts, you are welcome to send from earth orbit, if you can get there. :-)
(Score: 2) by hankwang on Sunday April 20 2014, @11:54AM
Just sent in my vote. I hope it registers as I intended; it all appears to me rather fragile and error-prone. So many "DO NOT"s in the instructions makes me worry that my mail client will confuse the parser.
Because of the huge number (90) of options, I felt it necessary to make a shortlist, assign numbers on the shortlist, triple-check that there were no double numbers in the shortlist, then manually copy my numbers to the quoted email, meanwhile being distracted severely by the fact that every item in the email was prefixed by a number. It's like putting #define FOUR 3 in a program and then only using the macro everytime you use the number "3". (Try it, it will drive you crazy)
It would have been better if the mail simply asked: put up to nine domain names in your order of preference, the most preferred one first. Only the first nine domain names will be counted. It does not matter whether they are on a single line or not and anything that is not a domain name or VOTERID will be ignored. Don't worry; our parser will handle HTML,BASE64-encoding, and quotation characters just fine; please leave the VOTERID somewhere in your email.
Avantslash: SoylentNews for mobile [avantslash.org]
(Score: 1) by Maddog on Monday April 21 2014, @12:33AM
Like you I also did an external offline sorting, deleting my obvious dislikes and whittling away down to 9 items. I then put my numbers back into the email and almost clicked send. BUT, I reviewed the instructions again and the numerical ordering note caught my eye, "A higher number means you like this choice better."
I had committed they lay-persons approach to list making by having number 1 my highest preferred choice, my bad (goes back and does corrections).
This process does seem somewhat error prone...I wonder how many others might skim over that instruction point.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Tuesday April 22 2014, @07:50PM
So many "DO NOT"s in the instructions makes me worry that my mail client will confuse the parser.
This is our way of trying to give it the best chance possible.
This is something which is brand new and has never been used for this before, so there is always the possibility of problems. It was written knowing full well that would be the case, so it saves all intermediate steps and anything that gets kicked out for any reason will be checked by hand.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Saturday April 12 2014, @07:46AM
I will put some information about any email bounces for the emails here as comments to this post. Some of us have rather strong email defenses. :-)
Just a couple so far:
-
1469 nwf ""i p=173.255.194.21 [barracudanetworks.com] (in
host smtp.bethzur.com[198.163.92.103] said: 554 Service
unavailable; Client host [boron.soylentnews.org] blocked using Barracuda
Reputation;
http://www.barracudanetworks.com/reputation/?r=1&
reply to RCPT TO command)
-
3016 Chaos
host mx7.webfaction.com[75.126.113.165] said: 554
5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [173.255.194.21] blocked using
b.barracudacentral.org (in reply to RCPT TO command)
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Saturday April 12 2014, @09:18PM
One more which may be a bounce:
1240 slackcity :
(host remote.slackcity.com[81.187.240.55] said: 452 4.3.1 Insufficient system resources (in reply to MAIL FROM command))
-- Be sure to check spam folders as well, people --
(Score: 1) by slackcity on Wednesday April 16 2014, @11:42AM
Actually, my mail server went mad, moved the swap file and then stopped co-operating. Fixed now, mail received.
Thanks for the post.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Monday April 14 2014, @11:19PM
user 302 zocalo :
one more which is deferring, could turn into a bounce.
59CDE27923 2166 Sat Apr 12 06:57:00 vote@boron.soylentnews.org
(connect to mail.zocalo.uk.com[82.70.225.81]:25: Connection timed out)
soylent@zocalo.uk.net
Apr 14 19:14:03 boron postfix/smtp[9753]: 59CDE27923: to=, relay=none, delay=217023, delays=216963/0.73/60/0, dsn=4.4.1, status=deferred (connect to mail.zocalo.uk.com[82.70.225.81]:25: Connection timed out)
This looke like a possible firewall block rather than a simple spam block.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Sunday April 20 2014, @07:50AM
More bounces for the actual first vote:
-
User: 3957 'bikepete'
173.255.194.21 is in a black list at
truncate.gbudb.net 550 http://www.gbudb.com/truncate/ [gbudb.com] [173.255.194.21] (in
reply to RCPT TO command)
-
User: 3016 'Chaos'
host mx7.webfaction.com[75.126.113.165] said: 554
5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [173.255.194.21] blocked using
b.barracudacentral.org (in reply to RCPT TO command)
-
User: 1469 'nwf'
host smtp.bethzur.com[198.163.92.103] said: 554 Service
unavailable; Client host [boron.soylentnews.org] blocked using Barracuda
Reputation;
Best option in most cases is to just whitelist us.
(Score: 2) by RobotMonster on Sunday April 20 2014, @03:44PM
Damn. It's looking like my please-vote email got eaten somewhere along the way :-( :-(
I received the call-for-submissions email just fine, didn't even have to go digging through the spam.
It's possible it went into the spam folder and I missed it when emptying the trash, but if that's what happened its gone now
Is there any way I can get mine resent?
(Score: 2) by RobotMonster on Sunday April 20 2014, @03:59PM
Yep, I did miss them in amongst the tonne of spam. Rescued them via TimeMachine, woo!
Here's the SpamAssassin points breakdown:
Content analysis details: (5.2 points, 5.0 required)
1.4 RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT RBL: RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT
[173.255.194.21 listed in bb.barracudacentral.org]
3.0 BAYES_95 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 95 to 99%
[score: 0.9744]
0.8 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Sunday April 20 2014, @07:15PM
Glad you were able to find the email.
There is a reason I suggest people just whitelist us. :-)
'3.0 BAYES_95 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 95 to 99%'
We are sending emails that have a list of almost 100 domains, and -that- looks REMARKABLY similar to link farm spam. Hopefully any other votes will not have this particular problem.
'1.4 RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT RBL: RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT
[173.255.194.21 listed in bb.barracudacentral.org]'
Barracuda lists no reason for the block, unlike most legitimate block lists, and no, we are NOT going to pay them $20 to get off their list. Note that SpamAssassin rightly gives this a rather low point count.
'0.8 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS'
I believe this is referring to another machine than one of ours, perhaps your mail host.
This email is sent by boron.soylentnews.org. It seems to have a proper reverse:
# dig boron.soylentnews.org ;; ANSWER SECTION:
boron.soylentnews.org. 300 IN A 173.255.194.21
# dig -x 173.255.194.21 ;; ANSWER SECTION:
21.194.255.173.in-addr.arpa. 85435 IN PTR boron.soylentnews.org.
You should be able to tell which machine by looking at the headers of the email.
(Score: 2) by RobotMonster on Monday April 21 2014, @06:40AM
Thanks for the analysis.
I've whitelisted soylent, increased the SpamAssassin threshold, and I'm trying out SpamHammer.
Spam is such a blight.
I can't believe enough people respond for the spammers to retain interest...
(Score: 1) by bikepete on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:33AM
Ooh, that's me! But it must be my ISP doing the blocking. Will see what they say...
(Score: 1) by bikepete on Wednesday April 23 2014, @06:10PM
Not had much joy. Have now changed to a different email address - don't suppose some kind admin could resend the ballot? TIA!
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Wednesday April 23 2014, @07:48PM
Seem to be having better luck with the new address:
relay=mx1.freedom2surf.net[85.119.248.7]:25, delay=2.6, delays=0.02/0.01/1.3/1.4, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 ok 1398282417 qp 19774)
(Score: 1) by bikepete on Wednesday April 23 2014, @08:16PM
Thanks, got it now! Many thanks :-)
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Wednesday April 23 2014, @04:46PM
Another bounce for the first voting phase:
User: 315 quadrox
status=deferred (host cornergraf.net[178.63.20.21] said: 450 4.2.0 : Recipient address rejected: Greylisted, see http://postgrey.schweikert.ch/help/cornergraf.net. html [schweikert.ch] (in reply to RCPT TO command))
Fastest solution is to whitelist us. This will cause the email to get through.
(Score: 2) by WizardFusion on Saturday April 12 2014, @07:49AM
It's not explicitly said, so I am guessing the vote numbers (1-9) are in reverse order.
.
9 - Highest vote (your bestest name ever)
8
7
6
5 - Middle of the road
4
3
2
1 - Lowest vote (only if I really have to have this one)
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Saturday April 12 2014, @06:41PM
Yes, this is a ranking system where higher numbers are used for the items you favor more.
This is indicated in the instructions for the actual votes - this first one is just for collecting names.
In a sense, it's more like moderating than voting.
(Score: 1) by islisis on Sunday April 20 2014, @05:18AM
Why should we need to moderate the candidates, when the result calls for a single name? A vote determines what we prefer, not what we scored. If it is a moderated event, the implementation makes no sense. What is the reason for barring multiple "9" ratings? The quasi-ranked input is completely arbitrary.
If it is based on a voting algorithm instead, do you have information about the one you employed? For instance what how it might result in the outcome commented above:
"You might even only vote for one, since in a close race your second number could actually break a tie - and not in your favor."
(Score: 2) by Covalent on Monday April 14 2014, @02:04AM
Soylent News is...a perfectly sufficient name.
It's a name. Who would have thought Google or Yahoo or McDonald's or Nike would be good names. But they worked out.
You can't rationally argue somebody out of a position they didn't rationally get into.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Sunday April 20 2014, @07:55PM
'According to the front page, there are 91 suggests for the name poll, but the email only lists 90 names. What's missing?'
Our evil corporate overlords made us do this!
OK, not really. The number on the front page is/was just a very rough running estimate done by a very simple minded script. The fact that it was just one off is purely coincidental. The final script that does this is much more thorough and both finds more names and removes more duplicates.
'You messed with my name'
Yes, we may have in some cases.
We are really only interested in the name itself at this point in the process, since our intent is to register whatever is selected in com/net/org anyway.
In order to make the list more uniform and give every name an equal chance, all names were lowercased, and most names were ended in '.com' The exceptions were some cases where it was thought the name might be intended to be a play on the old slashdot name, so a few were left as .org so as not to interfere with that.
'Why is the old deadline message on the front page still up?'
We made some changes to our back end which pretty seriously changed the way such updates are done, and are currently tracking down a problem with this. It will change soon.
'Why did some people get emails with a mention of name submissions?'
Normally I do a test send just to myself to check for errors in the text. In this case, I forgot to switch over, and started sending to the list before I was ready. I quickly realized this and quit, however, with the benefits of modern technology I found I am now able to make about 100 dumb mistakes per two seconds. Progress! Sorry about that.
(Score: 1) by q.kontinuum on Monday April 21 2014, @06:54AM
I was sure I set the checkbox "Willing to Vote" about three weeks ago. Just checked, because I was missing the vote mail, and saw it was not checked :-/ Any way to still participate?
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 2) by cosurgi on Monday April 21 2014, @12:35PM
yes, mrcoolbp will contact you shortly.
#
#\ @ ? [adom.de] Colonize Mars [kozicki.pl]
#
(Score: 2) by tynin on Monday April 21 2014, @12:58PM
It looks like the 2nd email, the one for the ballot, went out. But I've not seen it show up in my email, and I've checked the spam filter. Can I get it re-sent? Thanks.
---3 920 [soylentnews.org]3 927 [soylentnews.org]
As a side topic, I had some issues getting these posted, as the "Reply" button at the bottom of the page posts into the main article, where I thought it would fall under this post, which it didn't. In effect it made my posts disappear as it wasn't obvious where they went. "Reply to This" is the button I had to use to get my comment to stick to this post. Thanks to +Bytram in IRC getting this figured out for me. Here are the duplicate posts I made before I realized what was going on:
http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=1177&cid=3
http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=1177&cid=3
(Score: 2) by tynin on Monday April 21 2014, @08:33PM
The email showed up 24 minutes ago, thanks either way :)
(Score: 2) by stderr on Tuesday April 22 2014, @01:53PM
From the email:
Isn't "this email" (i.e. the email from you) ALWAYS received at "the time you receive this email"?
You probably meant that our reply should be received by the voting system before 7 days from the time your email was sent (not received, since you have no way of knowing how long it was delayed by various mail-servers).
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" #
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Tuesday April 22 2014, @07:14PM
Yes, from the time sent. Actually, the exact times are now on the sidebar.
(Score: 1) by lrmo on Tuesday April 22 2014, @09:47PM
When the first post went up to participate in the vote I immediately checked the box "Willing to Vote". Yesterday, I saw it was unchecked. Is there a way to still vote on the name?
(Score: 2) by bucc5062 on Wednesday April 23 2014, @06:08PM
I had gotten the first email from y'all
Soylent Community Vote
regarding the name request. I recently did a search on a generic 'soylentnews' in my gmail account and did not see any other posting. Checking my account I do see I'm "willing to vote" and checking spam in gmail I did not see you listed so....
Did I get taken off the list? Can I still vote?
The more things change, the more they look the same
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Wednesday April 23 2014, @07:21PM
The mail log shows this was sent and accepted by google:
Apr 20 02:42:33 boron postfix/smtp[6647]: DDDF027918: to=XXX relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[173.194.64.26]:25 , conn_use=3, delay=0.21, delays=0.01/0/0.01/0.19, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK 1397961753 i2si26122851oeu.66 - gsmtp)
It also shows other mails from our site accepted (such as the daily updates) - are you getting those?
Perhap you missed it among the others.
I will resend in a few moments just to be sure.
(Score: 2) by bucc5062 on Wednesday April 23 2014, @08:03PM
This time I did receive it. I ran a couple of searches against my mail and never found one from 4/20. I do get the daily stories update and the replies to posts. I guess we cal chaulk it up to a program glitch. Thank you.
(just received)
[Soylent Community Vote](DomainChoice) Initial Vote Requested
Inbox
x
Soylent Community Vote
3:26 PM (35 minutes ago)
The more things change, the more they look the same
(Score: 1) by NowhereMan on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:06AM
I haven't received either of the vote emails, although I do receive the email with stories every day.
I have checked my spam folder and there is nothing in there, I also check the bounces that were posted and I am not in there either. I also checked my Preferences to make sure "Willing to Vote" was checked.
(Score: 1) by NowhereMan on Thursday April 24 2014, @06:44AM
Okay this time the email came through, thanks.
(Score: 2) by Kell on Thursday April 24 2014, @08:22AM
I also did not get a vote ballot. I regret not feeling the momentary thrill of power over the destiny of the site.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 1) by Nerdanel on Saturday April 26 2014, @03:25PM
I haven't gotten the ballot. I know I was late checking that box, but I checked it yesterday and it's still checked. No email, nothing in the spam folder, just nothing. I logged out and back in and turned back on the daily newsletter in case it was that, but I still don't have the ballot.
I don't know what's the problem.
(Score: 1) by Erde on Friday May 16 2014, @09:20PM
I don't see a tickbox anywhere where you can opt-in to votes (thus I have not gotten an email). What to do? I guess I am too new to internets. I guess my account is not old enough (can't remember the exact creation date, but it is close)?
(Score: 1) by technohat on Wednesday May 21 2014, @03:52PM
I haven't received the vote email either. I received the earlier one, but not this one. I even checked my spam folder, but no dice.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 25 2014, @05:20PM
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(Score: 2) by Appalbarry on Friday May 30 2014, @07:12AM
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(Score: 2) by tynin on Monday April 21 2014, @12:22PM
I've not gotten the 2nd email, which I think is the ballot portion. I did get the 1st email, but not seeing the 2nd email anywhere in my email. I've confirmed that the "Willing to Vote" box has been checked. Any chance you can get it re-sent?
(Score: 2) by tynin on Monday April 21 2014, @12:41PM
It looks like the 2nd email, the one for the ballot, went out. But I've not seen it show up in my email, and I've checked the spam filter. Can I get it re-sent? Thanks.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Tuesday April 22 2014, @09:56PM
Apparently Yahoo thinks our long list of domains is spam, and is actually blocking people sending to the voting address.
Solution: Copy the entire email and send from another address or system. Make sure you send -to- the From: address listed on the email.
If you have a way to whitelist us, use that, and whitelist the entire soylentnews.org domain. I do not know if that will help with sends on Yahoo's system, but it does on some, so it might.
Let Yahoo know this is wrong, if you have a way.
If you have NO OTHER OPTION but to send from Yahoo - let me know here by a post replying to this one. I will see if I can set up a forwarder on a domain not blocked by them. If you cannot send, and would be willing to help me test that, indicate that in your post as well.
(Score: 2) by WizardFusion on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:58AM
I use Yahoo and I have not seen a bounce back message.
If you want to check you have my reply, look for the senders address beginning with "soylentnews@m"...
(Score: 2) by WizardFusion on Wednesday April 23 2014, @12:02PM
sorry, it's "soylent@m"...
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Wednesday April 23 2014, @03:45PM
Thank you, that is very helpful. Your email is there, so apparently this is not affecting ALL users of Yahoo. I note you are in the UK.
(Score: 1) by yellowantphil on Thursday April 24 2014, @07:36AM
It seems like it worked fine for me. Yahoo just asked me to fill out a captcha after I clicked "send."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @07:05PM
Yahoo! regularly blocks emails to eff.org, so it may not be soylent-specific.
(Score: 1) by NowhereMan on Thursday April 24 2014, @12:53AM
I haven't received either of the vote emails, although I do receive the email with stories every day. I have checked my spam folder and there is nothing in there, I also check the bounces that were posted and I am not in there either. I also checked my Preferences to make sure "Willing to Vote" was checked.
(Score: 1) by jackb_guppy on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:30AM
Ripped down the email to be begin and end and my choice 1 of vote. Dumped everything else.
I voted for current name, I do not want to change the name again.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Thursday April 24 2014, @04:36AM
'I thought 1 was the best instead of 9 and voted wrong'
'I changed my mind'
Solution: Fix the problem, and send in your vote again. Only the last submitted will count.
(Score: 2) by umafuckitt on Thursday April 24 2014, @12:05PM
Cheers!
(Score: 3, Informative) by AudioGuy on Thursday April 24 2014, @10:32PM
Ok, I admit it. I am just as curious about the outcome of this as the next person. And, THIS time, I am the Keeper of the Keys! Cool. So, while I cannot run the final totals yet, - hey - "I know Unix!" I have the RAW POWAH of grep, regex, sed ... at my disposal! I should be able to take a peek, figure this out, and then *I*, and *I* alone, will know the likely winner, *I* will have the secret knowledge, the Inside Information, the Knowing Smile! [cue dememnted cackle, stroke cat]
So now, *you* can know just what I found out, if you are one of the insiders reading this post: I now know, with 100% certainty, that:
. ... I don't have a clue. I tried, I really did. This kind of ranking system defies any short form of check like that. Can't look at just the 9's, because 8's could easily overrule that, use both, different results. 7s,6s,combinations, they all look different.
.
.
The only thing I can say with some confidence, is that there are AT LEAST 10 top contenders, any one of which could easily beat the others in the final.
So anyone who thinks this is in any way pre-ordained for soylent, or any other name, well, it just isn't. Even all the 1's can knock ANY contender off its perch in the right circumstances.
The only way to find out, is at the end, and if you are holding back from voting because you think this is a shoo-in, you are seriously mistaken.
You are going to have to vote, and wait, just like me.
Dammit.
(Score: 2) by GlennC on Tuesday April 29 2014, @01:39PM
That's not the only thing we could do.
Personally, I'm just not going to give a shit about the name and just contribute.
Sorry folks...the world is bigger and more varied than you want it to be. Deal with it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 06 2014, @09:34AM
Any insider information about when we can expect the results of the vote?
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Thursday April 24 2014, @11:04PM
There have been a lot of questions about how this works and why we did certain things. I will try to answer them togther, in the next two posts.
Most of the questions that start with this have one of two possible answers.
1. 'Because we don't have a clue how to do that.'
This is mostly the questions about why we didn't just do a poll in slash code. Covered in the next post.
OR
2. 'Because there was not enough time to do that.'
These are in reference to a lot of great ideas, that we just did not have time to implement.
Covered in the post after.
Unless you are interested in a lot of really boring details you can just stop reading here. :-)
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Thursday April 24 2014, @11:31PM
'Because we don't have a clue how to do that.'
This site was started by a small group of volunteers who used open source Slash code to start a site as an alternative to some corporate actions we felt were unacceptable.
The code we are using, slash code was written years ago, by a pretty good perl programmer who was very knowlegeable about all the various perl libraries and fairly sophisticated techniques. But a young programmer, who by his own admission (I am slamming no one here) made a few mistakes. In addition, the code has been hacked on by others at a later date by others, perhaps with a slightly different vision. The net effect of this is code that is very confusing to understand and work with.
There is NO ONE on staff here who had anything to do with the writing of this code. It is completely new to everyone. In addition, our perl programming expertise is pretty limited, there are just one or two people who might be called accomplished, and I do not believe any that have written an application the scale of slash code. (Maybe one, not sure). It doesn't really matter, as even a really sharp perl expert is going to take a while to get up to speed on THIS code.
It might be descibed as that famous 'maze of twisty little passages'. Or at times, it reminds me of those old 'home improvement' comedy sketches Red Skelton used to do - you know, where you turn on the water and the radio starts playing, to turn on the closet light, you must flush the toilet.
There are a lot of interactions, sometimes the simplest of things is REALLY difficult, and occasionally the reverse is true.
To answer one question, and provide an example: 'Why didn't you have the sidebar status up from the start?'.
Answer - because we had never done that before, and it took a while to figure out how to do it at all. And when we did, initially, the only way to update that little text box was: to do a complete re-install of slash code.
That's right, read that again: 'To update text box, do complete re-install of slash code.'
We have a better way now, but that REALLY was the case initially. We are learning the code, it just takes a while.
So, 'Why didn't you just use the slash poll, and limit it to registered users, and modify it to handle more names' etc.
Because it would have taken a long time to sort all that code out, write new code, and make sure we weren't causing the toilet to flush every time someone voted. :-)
We just didn't feel we had the time to do that properly.
We are learning the code, and making improvements, but at this stage, every one is very hard won.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Friday April 25 2014, @03:08AM
Or, 'how the shit actually came down'.
I apologise for the length of this, I have not had time to write a shorter one.
The code being used was not originally written to handle the name vote.
Originally, it was written to solve a staff problem:
We have people all over the world, and what was happening is that a group in a similar time zone would get together, identify some issue, solve it, and vote on the best solution. The problem was that 12 hours later another group, or person, would then say, 'wait a minute, we didn't get to vote on that, and by the way, would have suggested a different solution, 'Z', because we know about X and you did not take that into consideration. And this was not just grousing, often they were absolutely correct.
So we needed to come up with a solution to this, some kind of voting system that could spread the vote over a day or more, and, incidentally, it would be nice if it could also have a way for people to ADD OPTIONS to solve -that- problem.
We set up a group to look into possible solutions, which they were doing thoroughly. But that takes some time, so it was decided to write a quick, temporary solution, until that work came to fruition. I got the job.
Email was chosen because of its flexibility, and in general, I tried to take as flexible approach as possible. Who knew what this might be used for? Parsing emails is hard, because of dozens of different email programs, each with its own quirks, and in some cases, bugs, but this was for a very small group, mostly having sane email programs.
Knowing that, I figured I could get away with fairly simple tagging, because while something like having start and end tags such as html uses is much easier for a program to parse, it is very painful to look at.
So the simple '[n](nn) item' was chosen.
Why [1-9] ? Well, the original idea was really to have NO rigidly enforced system. Using just one number helps make the lines a bit easier to parse, and allows for multiple uses, for example, 1-9 could be used for ranking, but in other cases a binary option like 0/1 could be used, or other variants.
The (nn) was just because some way is needed to keep track of the items reliably, with less worry about a small change in the text of the item itself causing it to be missed. Something that happens a LOT in emails. Even plain text emails are not completely safe.
Provisions against cheating? Dupes? Etc.? None. This was staff, not worried about that at all.
Plans to adapt this to the name vote? None, originally. At best, I thought we might learn some useful things that might help with whatever we used for that later.
But the code was designed to allow each vote to have three phases, 'item contributions', 'initial ranking or voting', and a 'runoff vote' if needed. So it would solve our problem.
The code was written in a day. Then two days were spent creating a web based user interface so any staff member could initiate and run a poll or vote. (user interfaces, the bane of a programmers life)
Done. Not great, but good enough until we got something better.
-then everything changed-
There was a LOT of pressure to have the name vote as soon as possible, for a number of reasons, including keeping a promise, and the fact that this was keeping us from completing our incorporation (you need a name...).
The evaluation of the other programs turned up a lot of potential problems, such as some requiring javascript which many of our community object to, and the simple fact that polling or voting programs are generally not designed to accept a lot of name or item submisssions, or being written in a language no one here had enough experience with to be able to modify quickly. And there were other problems, false starts, people leaving, various things that are not important to detail here.
We needed something fast, and something that one of our own staff could modify, if needed.
And it just so happpened we had something that could, sort of, do what was needed. That could accept submisssions, and handle ranking, and runoff votes. But had no way to interface to a database, and no protections against cheating, and so on.
So some changes would have to be made, and quickly. Those changes were made in about a day and a half. One, single test was then run with about six staff.
The next event that code handled was the real name vote. Which is what we are in now.
-- So: answers... --
-- Why plain text? Why not just the convenience of 'anythng goes'? --
Because I am not a good enough programmer to write code that can handle every one of literally thousands of different mail programs, variations of those, and bugs, and the outright violations of the RFCs some of these programs contain. And even if I had been, there would have not been enough time to test them all, even once.
So I made a 'best effort' to try to decode as many as possible, and then asked people to use plain text, which almost always works. The best effort is for those absolutely stuck, as some are. And in the end, if it really cannot be deciphered, it can be manually counted. (and will be)
The restrictions people complain about are really there just to try to give your vote the best possible chance of being decoded properly.
-- Why is there no feedback email? --
Because of the very short time period, and the high probability of problems in some very untested code, I decided to program VERY defensively, saving all intermediate steps, and NOT trying to decode or tally emails 'on the fly'. I let the mail server, a program written and tested to do that well, deliver the mail. Only later is the mail processed, which means I can't lose any emails, and can repeat the process, if needed, to fix a bug.
A side effect of this is that there is really very little information available while delivery is taking place. If the tallying was being done, I could keep track of that state and send back an error message if something was wrong. But with nothing like that being done, the best an email sent back could say would be 'your email was delivered'. That is information already apparent however - we are not filtering email like an isp might. If your email is NOT deliverable, you WILL get an error back immediately from the mail server (as a few have unfortunately found out from Yahoo.)
There are also certain precautions one must take with autoresponders, it is not quite as simple as you might expect. The long and short of it is that it was something I did not feel I could spend the time on for a very limited utility.
-- Why Email? --
#1 - It was what we had ready, and handy.
Also:
2. We could send people tokens to help prevent cheating fairly easily.
3. It was free form enough to allow for name submissions easily.
4. It should be fairly easy to repurpose.
Mostly, in all honesty, #1. :-)
-- Why are the numbers setup so your first choice gets a nine and your least choice gets a 1? --
Well, there are two ways of thinking about this. One is that you are ranking or scoring items, the other is that you are making choices 'first choice' 'second choice' etc. I did not know which was 'more intuitive', since this was not a one time winner takes all vote like US elections, but rather a scoring system. It was not necessarily clear one was more intuitive than the other. My time for researching this was also limited, but I had to make a choice fairly quickly. Whichever I chose, it seemed lilely some people would feel the other was was more intuitive.
So looked at other things.
What the program actually does is add these. So it seems better to let the user choices also reflect this directly.
Another factor was that (going back to the staff version), this way allowed me to have a zero, if I ever needed one, while still having the easier to parse single numbers in brackets.
For better or for worse, that is how this was decided. In about 2 minutes. :-)
-- Why not vote for just one, like US elections? --
Because this is a little different situtation, where a second choice can be important. What we really want is the best possible choice, not to 'keep the evil guy on the other side out'.
Remember anyone could submit a name, so presumably would vote for their own.
It's too much to go into here, but ranking tends to pick choices that are the best compromises (= less pissed off people). Do a google search on 'voting algorithm' and have fun.
-- What voting algorithm are you using? --
Heh. Very fancy name, that.
What it actually is, is a very loose attempt to come up with a 'Condorcet winner' by ranking, and having two rounds, coupled with the practical requirement here that we may have to drop down to 'next best choices' if for some reason we cannot get control of one or more domains.
In other words, we just add the scores and highest scores win, then have a runoff. And pray we don't have a tie. :-)
The staff vote, and ultimately NCommander, can break a tie.
The whole vote process is on the wiki. http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/ProposedSolutionF orTheCommunityPoll [soylentnews.org]
-- Why can we only use each number once? --
This is an attempt to force people to actually make choices based upon preference ranking, rather then just an easy '9 for all my favorites'.
The hope is that it will provide less chance of a tie as well.
-- So if your second choice was given an '8', does that carry more weight than if you gave it a '5'? --
Yes, that is the whole point. Vote your relative preferences.
-- Why was the list so long? Why not just shorten it? --
Tough question. Who gets to decide? And take the brickbats from those unilaterally removed?
Don't look at me.
The whole issue was tough, because we simply did not know what to expect. You can see my own vaccillation here pretty clearly - At first I was terrified we would get a 4,000 name long list. Then that we would only get a few.
In the end, we had about 90 and I think that was long, but workable. And all names submitted got into the list, as far as I am aware.
-- It could have all been done better --
No doubt about that. It's our first time, and we had a very limited time frame. Nobody was under any illusions there would not be problems.
Thanks for making the best of a difficult situttion.
We hope to do better next time.
(Score: 2) by RobotMonster on Sunday April 27 2014, @06:21PM
Thanks for all your effort on the voting system, and also for your summary of the behind-the-scenes action.
Much appreciated!
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Friday April 25 2014, @08:43PM
The answer to this is purely practical.
Since we were using email to send ballots, we had a problem: you cannot just send emails without peoples permission.
At one point, the checkbox for getting the daily summaries that registered users can get was set by default. A number of people took exception to this, some even claiming we were spamming them. (This was unintentional on our part, slashcode came with that set by default)
So that was fixed, but it made us very aware of the sensitivity of our community on this issue.
Anything that required an email ballot would therefore need peoples explicit permission. We tried several approaches, things like adding special tags in various places, but all were pretty awkward. In the end, NCommander was able to add a checkbox and field to the database specifically for this purpose.
But there is another problem, which is that sending bulk mail, which this certainly would be, can get you into major block lists. All it takes is one or two complaints, in some cases. To get OUT of these blocklists, you must be able to PROVE :
1. That users explicitly signed up.
2. That the signup mechanism did NOT default to on, in other words, they had to actively take an action to sign up.
We used a checkbox with the idea that people could sign up for votes they wanted to participate in, and not for others. So that checkbox is easily changed at any time.
Yet, we needed to be able to prove a user had signed up for a specific vote.
The only way we could do that is to dump that choice out, at a certain point in time, so that we could show that yes, THIS user signed up for THIS specific vote on THIS date.
This is why, for each vote, there is an explicit sign up period (which we call registration, since the term is familiar), and an explicit cutoff date.
(Score: 1) by broken on Friday April 25 2014, @06:59PM
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Friday April 25 2014, @08:54PM
Thanks for letting us know, check your email.
(Score: 1) by broken on Friday April 25 2014, @09:06PM
(Score: 1) by SuggestiveLanguage on Monday May 05 2014, @12:41PM
I did not receive a ballot.
(Score: 2) by melikamp on Saturday April 26 2014, @11:01AM
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Saturday April 26 2014, @11:35AM
We have picked up some latecomers, but at a minimum, you need to have your 'Willing to Vote' box checked before we can send you an email for this purpose. See You/Info/Homepage.
(Score: 1) by jbernardo on Saturday April 26 2014, @07:27PM
I didn't get any vote email. I am receiving all daily digests, though. I also verified my preferences, and I don't have a "willing to vote" checkbox.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Saturday May 10 2014, @11:00PM
It is on your 'Homepage' Right under 'Willing to Moderate'
Check it and I will make sure you get a ballot for the final vote. (along with any others here).
(Score: 2) by Marand on Friday May 16 2014, @08:52PM
Might be too late, but NCommander said to ask about getting in on the final vote referred to here [soylentnews.org]. Tried asking around during various stages and only today got informed about the addition to preferences (which is set now), so I've missed everything so far.
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Saturday May 17 2014, @04:43PM
Yup, we added you. You should have received a ballot.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 1) by Magic Oddball on Wednesday April 30 2014, @07:51AM
I'm using SpamGourmet for my listed address, and it forwards all messages without filtering to a personal Zoho.com account.
I ticked the "vote" box well over a week ago, checked my spam & trash folders along with all of the others, searched the account, and made sure @soylentnews.org is whitelisted.
(Score: 1) by linsane on Thursday May 01 2014, @04:18PM
Due to RTFM fail, I put my choices in backwards and am leaving them as such - even more reason why it's anyones game in final vote :-)
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Wednesday May 14 2014, @05:38PM
The net effect of what you did was that you gave at least a one point boost to your favorite nine choices over the other 81. So your vote still has a positive influence on your favorites over the others, just not in the amounts you intended.
And that vote could well decide whether a name gets into the top five, as any vote can.
(Score: 1) by d4klutz on Thursday May 01 2014, @05:42PM
I have had my willing to vote box checked since I first heard about the ballot vote. I have yet to receive any ballot email. Could you please resend it or let me know how I can get my vote in? Thanks
(Score: 2) by Ken_g6 on Saturday May 17 2014, @11:25PM
I didn't have my voting box checked last time, but this time around it was checked. Still no voting email. Although double-checking my preferences I finally found a way to turn off the daily newsletter.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Sunday May 18 2014, @06:31AM
New, fresh bounces. :-)
User: 133, TheSage
The user(s) account is temporarily over quota.
Please reply to
if you feel this message to be in error.
User: 1469, nwf
host smtp.bethzur.com[198.163.92.103] said: 554 Servicei p=173.255.194.21 [barracudanetworks.com] (in
unavailable; Client host [boron.soylentnews.org] blocked using Barracuda
Reputation;
http://www.barracudanetworks.com/reputation/?r=1&
reply to RCPT TO command)
(You need to whitelist us)
User: 3016, Chaos
5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [173.255.194.21] blocked using
b.barracudacentral.org (in reply to RCPT TO command)
(You need to whitelist us)
User: 1884, xtronics
host smtp.xtronics.com[139.146.185.26] said: 550-rejected
because 173.255.194.21 is in a black list at 550 b.barracudacentral.org (in
reply to RCPT TO command)
(You need to whitelist us)
(Score: 1) by soylentsandor on Tuesday May 20 2014, @10:14AM
While I registered a while ago as willing to vote, to date I have not yet received any voting-related mail. I just double-checked: the 'willing to vote' checkbox is on and there's nothing in my spam box. Incidentally, I never received the ballot either.
(Score: 1) by slackcity on Thursday May 22 2014, @01:11PM
Hey. Any chance of re-sending to slackcity? Had some more mail server issues earlier in the week while I was away...
Thanks in advance.
(Score: 1) by slackcity on Friday May 23 2014, @03:42PM
Hi. Any chance of re-sending the vote email to slackcity (1240) please? Mail server problems earlier in the week while I was away. Thanks in advance.
(Score: 2) by Appalbarry on Friday May 30 2014, @07:16AM
The sidebar says "The Community Final Vote has ended. Totaling and checking in progress.
When? Why didn't I get an e-mail.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Monday June 02 2014, @06:11PM
I will post these as comments to this one, one phase at a time. The Community Votes and the Staff Votes will both be posted, in the order they occurred (there is some overlap though).
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Monday June 02 2014, @06:36PM
People were asked to register for the vote by setting a flag in their user preferences. 507 did so.
In addition, more people were added by hand over the course of the various phases, those totaled 30 by the last vote.
The original email requesting submisssions went out seeded with one choice:
[] soylentnews.com
45 people that were registered sent suggestions email back, plus a few more were added from people added who were not registered, by staff. Three people missed the cutof time for that phase. (voting emails had already gone out).
The final list of submissions we got was this:
[](1) absorbingnews.com
[](2) achetee.com
[](3) alphadot.com
[](4) altdiscuss.com
[](5) apt-get-news.com
[](6) baconnews.com
[](7) bangdot.org
[](8) bayesianews.com
[](9) beardrhetoric.com
[](10) boardkey.com
[](11) chattrnews.com
[](12) crosslog.com
[](13) dailybacon.net
[](14) deltachroma.com
[](15) devnull.com
[](16) dotbang.org
[](17) dotsalt.org
[](18) dupenews.com
[](19) eigentime.com
[](20) epsilonnexus.com
[](21) fetanews.com
[](22) firingsquid.com
[](23) forkbeta.com
[](24) forkdot.org
[](25) freedefy.com
[](26) freedivide.com
[](27) fuckbeta.com
[](28) futurians.com
[](29) gammavortex.com
[](30) geekcard.com
[](31) gitgot.com
[](32) grepcutnews.com
[](33) grepnews.com
[](34) hashsalt.org
[](35) hecknews.com
[](36) ionews.com
[](37) iorevolution.net
[](38) iotanexus.com
[](39) itarium.com
[](40) legitworksite.com
[](41) li694-22.com
[](42) linevertex.com
[](43) lostdash.com
[](44) lowlevelnews.com
[](45) ls-lnews.com
[](46) makemesmart.com
[](47) minddivide.com
[](48) nerdcard.net
[](49) nerdcraft.com
[](50) nerddiscourse.com
[](51) nerdgloss.com
[](52) nerdnewsnet.com
[](53) nerdpost.com
[](54) newschattr.com
[](55) newsconfig.com
[](56) newsdotorg.org
[](57) newsgrep.com
[](58) newsignal.com
[](59) newsisyou.com
[](60) newslash.org
[](61) newsping.com
[](62) newstat.com
[](63) newuucp.com
[](64) nntpping.com
[](65) noncorpnews.com
[](66) noncorporate.com
[](67) nunexus.com
[](68) omnidiscuss.com
[](69) pipebeard.com
[](70) port119.net
[](71) primedelta.com
[](72) pulsedot.net
[](73) reslashed.com
[](74) salientnews.net
[](75) salientnoise.com
[](76) saltdot.org
[](77) salthash.com
[](78) shpxurnq.com
[](79) sigmanexus.com
[](80) sigmavortex.com
[](81) silentmews.com
[](82) soylentnews.com
[](83) squintfeed.com
[](84) stealthnews.com
[](85) sudonews.com
[](86) techmatter.com
[](87) thegarlic.com
[](88) uuengeek.com
[](89) yottatalk.com
[](90) yottatech.com
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Monday June 02 2014, @08:44PM
The list (above) of proposed names was sent out to all registered voters and the late additions.
Voted in the Scoring round: 241 + 10 = 251 (241 registered plus ten of the late additions)
Emails that had to be hand decoded: 1 (non-standard quoted-printable encoding)
Emails that had to be hand counted (people added later): 10
People voting more than once:
Second vote unchanged at all : 2
(no change to vote, probably forgot they had voted)
Order alone : 5
(Order change suggests they misunderstood directions)
Order plus other changes : 3
(indeterminate due to changes in what was voted for)
--
Total: 10
Raw Results with point totals shown:
TOTAL NAME
(total pts)
(0)
1228 soylentnews.com
789 devnull.com
379 sudonews.com
346 grepnews.com
208 apt-get-news.com
(2950) (points used for first 5)
- top 5 above (this could change if some are unavailable) -
204 newsgrep.com
198 port119.net
198 geekcard.com
188 dailybacon.net
174 forkdot.org
164 techmatter.com
159 ionews.com
150 li694-22.com
147 newslash.org
145 salientnews.net
132 legitworksite.com
126 newsdotorg.org
116 bangdot.org
116 dotbang.org
110 baconnews.com
97 altdiscuss.com
93 alphadot.com
89 thegarlic.com
89 nerdcraft.com
87 forkbeta.com
86 nerdpost.com
86 nerdcard.net
85 fuckbeta.com
80 dupenews.com
80 hashsalt.org
77 reslashed.com
77 ls-lnews.com
76 pulsedot.net
79 firingsquid.com
70 eigentime.com
67 bayesianews.com
66 lostdash.com
64 newsping.com
55 lowlevelnews.com
52 newsignal.com
50 crosslog.com
44 salientnoise.com
41 itarium.com
40 uuengeek.com
39 beardrhetoric.com
39 silentmews.com
38 yottatech.com
37 nerddiscourse.com
36 newsisyou.com
36 boardkey.com
35 nerdnewsnet.com
33 freedivide.com
32 fetanews.com
29 omnidiscuss.com
26 makemesmart.com
25 minddivide.com
22 saltdot.org
22 newschattr.com
21 noncorpnews.com
21 gitgot.com
21 absorbingnews.com
20 squintfeed.com
19 sigmanexus.com
19 pipebeard.com
18 futurians.com
17 noncorporate.com
16 salthash.com
15 nerdgloss.com
14 sigmavortex.com
14 yottatalk.com
14 chattrnews.com
13 grepcutnews.com
12 iorevolution.net
12 deltachroma.com
11 shpxurnq.com
9 achetee.com
9 gammavortex.com
9 epsilonnexus.com
9 dotsalt.org
8 stealthnews.com
8 newstat.com
8 nntpping.com
7 primedelta.com
6 nunexus.com
6 linevertex.com
6 hecknews.com
6 freedefy.com
6 newuucp.com
5 iotanexus.com
4 newsconfig.com
-
(7839) (Total Points Used)
The points are shown to illustrate how difficult it is to predict anything from the initial ranking phase. It may look like Soylent was a sure win from this, but in fact, if you look at the points, those used for names OTHER than soylent far outnumber the soylent votes. Since only a few names will make it into the final vote all those points will need to go somewhere...
Now at this point we had to make a few decisions about the rules, some anticipated, some not.
The anticipated one was that all the names would be checked and we would try to get possession of them in .com, .net, and org. Any we could not, would be removed from consideration.
However, as it turned out, almost ALL the top choices would have been eliminated by this requirement. So we decided to relax that a bit to just the domains we ACTUALLY felt we needed, which were .org and .net. .com was less important, it is not like we were going to open a retail store...
Then there were some problems that were not anticipated.
The first one was that if we had to drop a name (and we did), the next name in line was newsgrep.com, which was nearly identical to grepnews.com - in fact they were deliberately submitted to be so, as an example. So a new rule was created: if two names are nearly identical, they get combined into one item, and if that item wins, a runoff is held between them.
The next problem was that two of those names had potentially serious copyright problems. Soylent we expected, but with apt-get-news in the running, that was pretty closely associated with Debian/Ubuntu, and in particular, it could cause a problem with NCommander in his work situation which could be VERY awkward. (Think about it: your company makes a product called the XP100plus, and one of your employees starts a site called 'xp1000plus.com' that has NOTHING to do with your company or product...).
At any moment, two of those names could be knocked out of the running, leaving us with a rather limited list for our runoff, consisting of
sudonews.com
grepnews.com
newsgrep.com
(if it happened after the list went out)
Sort of a limited choice...
So the next new rule was created: If a name has a copyright problem, another name will be added to the list as a backup in case that name gets knocked off the list later.
So, with the new rules in mind, the runoff list from the community vote turned out to be:
soylentnews.com
sudonews.com
grepnews.com (or newsgrep)
apt-get-news.com
dailybacon.net
forkdot.org
techmatter.com
Now we needed to add the results of the staff top five to this, and delete any duplicates, to make up the final list that both staff and community would be voting on in the final round.
So the staff vote was next...
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Monday June 02 2014, @09:41PM
The staff vote worked exactly like the community votes, with an initial submission phase.
The initial email went out with just
[] soylentnews.org
just like the communithy vote..
Six staff submitted names.
-The initial name submissions were:-
alphadot.org
apt-get-news.org
crosslog.org
dailybacon.org
deltachroma.org
eigentime.org
forkdot.org
freedefine.org
futurians.org
grepnews.org
ionews.org
mindefine.org
newsgrep.org
newslash.org
omnidiscuss.org
salientnews.org
salientnoise.org
sigmanexus.org
soylentnews.org
sudonews.org
techmatter.org
(Just like the community vote, only names actually submitted could be voted on)
This initial list went out for ranking.
11 staff members voted.
The raw results were:
-Ranking Results (scores) for all submitted items:-
36 sudonews.org
31 salientnews.org
27 ionews.org
22 newsgrep.org
21 techmatter.org
20 apt-get-news.org
20 salientnoise.org
20 grepnews.org
19 crosslog.org
18 freedefine.org
17 futurians.org
17 deltachroma.org
17 soylentnews.org
16 eigentime.org
16 alphadot.org
15 sigmanexus.org
9 newslash.org
8 omnidiscuss.org
8 mindefine.org
7 forkdot.org
7 dailybacon.org
No duplicates or cheaters were detected. :-)
-Final Top 5 for Staff (derived using the same rules used for the community vote)-
sudonews
salientnews:salientnoise (similar names)
newsgrep:grepnews (similar names)
techmatter
apt-get-news.org
crosslog
Interesting that Soylent did not even make it into the staff top 5.
-Final Combined List To Be Used For the Final Runoff Votes (Staff and Community)-
This list is created by combining the top 5 from the community with the top 5 from the staff vote. The list is then alphabetized, and any duplicates removed. This is the list that will be used by both staff and the community for both final votes.
apt-get-news
crosslog
dailybacon
forkdot
grepnews or newsgrep
salientnews or salientnoise
soylentnews
sudonews
techmatter
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Monday June 02 2014, @09:59PM
This is the big one. :-)
The combined staff and community top fives were sent out to the community.
Registered voters results
1253 7 soylentnews
837 5 grepnews or newsgrep
792 8 sudonews
769 9 techmatter
550 1 apt-get-news
514 6 salientnews or salientnoise
485 4 forkdot
472 3 dailybacon
447 2 crosslog
Add in points from a few manually added (kicked out, could not be decoded) ones:
1253+28 7 soylentnews
837+29 5 grepnews or newsgrep
792+4 8 sudonews
769+15 9 techmatter
550+3 1 apt-get-news
514+5 6 salientnews or salientnoise
485+8 4 forkdot
472+10 3 dailybacon
447+6 2 crosslog
Add in points from voters added after registration:
1253+28+91 7 soylentnews
837+29+107 5 grepnews or newsgrep
792+4+68 8 sudonews
769+15+79 9 techmatter
550+3+54 1 apt-get-news
514+5+52 6 salientnews or salientnoise
485+8+64 4 forkdot
472+10+42 3 dailybacon
447+6+37 2 crosslog
-Grand Final Totals for the community vote final runoff-
Score Name
- -
1372 soylentnews
973 grepnews or newsgrep
864 sudonews
863 techmatter
607 apt-get-news
573 salientnews or salientnoise
557 forkdot
524 dailybacon
490 crosslog
Now to the staff final vote, which by the rules, will prevail.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Monday June 02 2014, @10:31PM
This is where the staff votes upon the exact same list as the community did (the combined list).
10 staff voted.
- All Rankings -
44 grepnews or newsgrep
40 soylentnews
28 techmatter
25 sudonews
24 salientnews or salientnoise
18 crosslog
6 dailybacon
6 forkdot
5 apt-get-news
- First choices only-
27 soylentnews
27 grepnews or newsgrep
9 techmatter
9 salientnews or salientnoise
9 sudonews
- First and Second choices only -
35 grepnews or newsgrep
27 soylentnews
17 salientnews or salientnoise
17 sudonews
9 techmatter
8 crosslog
This is very close. So close, in fact it made a lot of people on staff very uncomfortable with going with such a narrow staff win, against the wishes of the community which had both a much larger voter base and a much more clear choice for its favorite.
A decision was made in irc to have one more staff vote, this time on just one single issue. A new poll was started, with these choices:
[] We should use the community vote results.
[] I disagree
The results were:
63 We should use the community vote results.
9 I disagree.
So there you have it. Pretty much a landslide.
The new name is...drum roll...
soylentsnews.org
With the following next in line (in order) for backups, if that name should become unusable due to copyright conflicts:
grepnews or newsgrep
sudonews
techmatter
apt-get-news
salientnews or salientnoise
forkdot
dailybacon
crosslog
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Monday June 02 2014, @10:36PM
And wouldn't you know it, after all that, I made a typo in the last, final, name that mattered.
Let's make that name: soylentnews.org. :-)
(Score: 2) by CoolHand on Friday June 06 2014, @05:41PM
It probably would have been wise to have had a run-off vote between soylentnews, and newsgrep (or grepnews), so that way all the anti-soylent news people would be splitting votes across all those choices. I mean the votes for everything other than soylentnews way outnumbered soylentnews. It should have been required that the winner achieved a true majority, and since that wasn't the case, reduce the number of choices until one does (or just go for two right away).
I say this as someone who, in fact, did vote for soylentnews as the name. It just doesn't seem fair though, that it was picked with less than majority..
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job-Douglas Adams
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 06 2014, @06:29PM
I think there's something in the US water that makes people incapable of doing a two-candidate run-off. :)