I must admit I don't actually understand the instructions of the mail.
OK, I shall reply in text mode.
My mail reader then automatically quotes the mail starting with "> ". Am I supposed to leave that in?
Then there's this "--- BEGIN VOTE ---" block; I guess that part is somehow automatically evaluated (or else, why the strict format requirements), so it's crucial that this is formatted correctly. But as I said, the mail will be quoted (unless I'm supposed to delete that quote, but then, the text asks me to *add* my suggestions to the list, so I guess not). So am I supposed to remove the quote marks ("> ") from that part? Or am I supposed to add the quote marks in front of my suggestion? Or am I supposed to leave the quote marks in the list, but add my suggestions without quote marks? Or am I supposed to copy the whole block unquoted to the end, and then add my suggestions to the "list" (which just contains "soylentnews.org" at the moment)? Should "soylentnews.org" remain there, or should I replace it with my suggestion?
Or maybe I misunderstood, and I should just add my suggestions in the form "[9] suggestion.com" to the very end of the mail, ignoring the form completely?
Please clarify.
-- The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Starting Score:
1
point
Karma-Bonus Modifier
+1
Total Score:
2
(Score: 2, Insightful) by http on Monday April 14 2014, @07:53AM
The instructions were long, we were trying to avoid confusion, apologies if that made it more complex. The software is pretty smart and will easily ignore the quote marks if present, just ignore those. All you have to do is add your suggestion in the format presented just below "soylentnews.org" (or anywhere within that block).
To be blunt, you guys did a shit job on this. The entire process has been a convoluted mess. First there are issues in getting the message about what is going to happen when. Then there are the issues in people knowing to go to a page to change a setting so they can get an email with more instructions to submit an idea in plain text or heaven forbid the servers or admins freak out and melt. Then who the hell knows what comes next.
This level of overly engineered/complex crap is bad.
You created an overly convoluted solution when you already had the freakin tools to reach a solution.
First you just had to have a thread calling for submissions with a clear cut off date. A good 2-3 week window should have done the trick. Bumping or pinning the thread if need be. Then lock tread when submissions closed and edit summary to reflect that. Next have admins narrow it down to top choices that are available and not something horribly offensive or trademarked. Open new thread to let people vote. Here you have plenty of options to explore in collecting a vote: People could vote by commenting in the thread and only count votes of logged in users. People could be given a link to a poll only logged in users can see that only lets one vote per user. You could have set up a survey like with survey monkey and ask for people to vote there (maybe also ask for their uid).
The point is: there are simpler and easier ways to do this. And by simpler and easier I mean for the users. This really seems like you guys were trying to automate this and create less work for yourselves and instead created this mess.
The point is: there are simpler and easier ways to do this. And by simpler and easier I mean for the users>
Simpler would not necessarily be better. This is not as easy as you think. Most votes require simply choosing between a few options. This one requires submitting suggestions from users, paring down a long list, and making a final decision. We explored all of the options you've outlined actually. Let me explain:
We wanted to keep submissions private to avoid domain-squatting, so leaving domain suggestions as comments was out. We avoided a slash poll as they are unreliable (read the text below the results of every poll) and this is important, we'd have been criticised if we used that. 3rd-party solutions would have required handing thousands of user's email addresses to a third party, something we are not comfortable with (yes, that's how survey monkey works, we looked into it).
I admit we have communicated poorly and handled some details poorly. Still 512 people managed to sign up, we've contacted those who've claimed they were unable and we are including them too. We've been working night and day to make this happen, we all have real jobs and are not getting paid for this. Sorry if it's not up to your standards but I ensure you it's not out of laziness.
Thank you for taking hte time to respond and explain.
just and FYI I've used survey monkey in the past and know others that have. It doesn't require you hand over a bunch of emails. (you can if you want, but don't have to). You make a simple survey. It gies you the link or the option to embed it in your site. Who ever looked into it didn't look hard enough. The only email required is the suvery creator's when they first set up an account. To ID people in the survey just make a required question that asked for their soylent UN/UID or mail out the survey link yourselves.
I'm looking through the docs and a solution that would work in our situation is not obvious or simple, though I don't deny it's possible. Thanks for the explanation, it could be something to look into in the future. In this case though we'd still have had to email users ourselves (non-trivial with thousands of UIDs), and need some way for users to indicate that they'd like to opt-in (and might still be in a similar predicament with people frustrated that they did not do so in time). Furthermore, this solution would have required hundreds of dollars and use of a third-party, both of which we were trying to avoid.
I must admit I don't actually understand the instructions of the mail.
OK, I shall reply in text mode.
My mail reader then automatically quotes the mail starting with "> ". Am I supposed to leave that in?
yes.
Then there's this "--- BEGIN VOTE ---" block; I guess that part is somehow automatically evaluated (or else, why the strict format requirements), so it's crucial that this is formatted correctly. But as I said, the mail will be quoted (unless I'm supposed to delete that quote, but then, the text asks me to *add* my suggestions to the list, so I guess not). So am I supposed to remove the quote marks ("> ") from that part? Or am I supposed to add the quote marks in front of my suggestion?
just type in your suggestion. Stop bothering about ">", it will be parsed correctly as long as you are inside that "--- BEGIN VOTE ---" block. It doesn't matter if you add ">" or not.
Or am I supposed to leave the quote marks in the list, but add my suggestions without quote marks? Or am I supposed to copy the whole block unquoted to the end, and then add my suggestions to the "list" (which just contains "soylentnews.org" at the moment)?
Do not overcomplicate. Do not do any extra edits. Minimize your work. Just type the letters with your suggestion and that [9] before it, don't change anything else. For example like this:
[9] superus.com
[9] evenbetternews.com
Should "soylentnews.org" remain there, or should I replace it with my suggestion?
Leave it there. Just add yours.
Or maybe I misunderstood, and I should just add my suggestions in the form "[9] suggestion.com" to the very end of the mail, ignoring the form completely?
You got it almost right. You do that inside the "--- BEGIN VOTE ---" block, not at the end of email.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Monday April 14 2014, @07:19AM
I must admit I don't actually understand the instructions of the mail.
OK, I shall reply in text mode.
My mail reader then automatically quotes the mail starting with "> ". Am I supposed to leave that in?
Then there's this "--- BEGIN VOTE ---" block; I guess that part is somehow automatically evaluated (or else, why the strict format requirements), so it's crucial that this is formatted correctly. But as I said, the mail will be quoted (unless I'm supposed to delete that quote, but then, the text asks me to *add* my suggestions to the list, so I guess not). So am I supposed to remove the quote marks ("> ") from that part? Or am I supposed to add the quote marks in front of my suggestion? Or am I supposed to leave the quote marks in the list, but add my suggestions without quote marks? Or am I supposed to copy the whole block unquoted to the end, and then add my suggestions to the "list" (which just contains "soylentnews.org" at the moment)? Should "soylentnews.org" remain there, or should I replace it with my suggestion?
Or maybe I misunderstood, and I should just add my suggestions in the form "[9] suggestion.com" to the very end of the mail, ignoring the form completely?
Please clarify.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by http on Monday April 14 2014, @07:53AM
Seconded; the instructions are a deep well of ambiguity with unwarranted assumptions floating to the top.
I browse at -1 when I have mod points. It's unsettling.
(Score: 1) by crutchy on Monday April 14 2014, @08:12AM
i couldn't be bothered reading it. i like coding software, not emails.
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Monday April 14 2014, @03:05PM
The instructions were long, we were trying to avoid confusion, apologies if that made it more complex. The software is pretty smart and will easily ignore the quote marks if present, just ignore those. All you have to do is add your suggestion in the format presented just below "soylentnews.org" (or anywhere within that block).
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2, Insightful) by jmoschner on Thursday April 17 2014, @06:25AM
To be blunt, you guys did a shit job on this. The entire process has been a convoluted mess. First there are issues in getting the message about what is going to happen when. Then there are the issues in people knowing to go to a page to change a setting so they can get an email with more instructions to submit an idea in plain text or heaven forbid the servers or admins freak out and melt. Then who the hell knows what comes next.
This level of overly engineered/complex crap is bad.
You created an overly convoluted solution when you already had the freakin tools to reach a solution.
First you just had to have a thread calling for submissions with a clear cut off date. A good 2-3 week window should have done the trick. Bumping or pinning the thread if need be.
Then lock tread when submissions closed and edit summary to reflect that.
Next have admins narrow it down to top choices that are available and not something horribly offensive or trademarked.
Open new thread to let people vote.
Here you have plenty of options to explore in collecting a vote: People could vote by commenting in the thread and only count votes of logged in users. People could be given a link to a poll only logged in users can see that only lets one vote per user. You could have set up a survey like with survey monkey and ask for people to vote there (maybe also ask for their uid).
The point is: there are simpler and easier ways to do this. And by simpler and easier I mean for the users. This really seems like you guys were trying to automate this and create less work for yourselves and instead created this mess.
(Score: 3, Informative) by mrcoolbp on Thursday April 17 2014, @06:20PM
Simpler would not necessarily be better. This is not as easy as you think. Most votes require simply choosing between a few options. This one requires submitting suggestions from users, paring down a long list, and making a final decision. We explored all of the options you've outlined actually. Let me explain:
We wanted to keep submissions private to avoid domain-squatting, so leaving domain suggestions as comments was out. We avoided a slash poll as they are unreliable (read the text below the results of every poll) and this is important, we'd have been criticised if we used that. 3rd-party solutions would have required handing thousands of user's email addresses to a third party, something we are not comfortable with (yes, that's how survey monkey works, we looked into it).
I admit we have communicated poorly and handled some details poorly. Still 512 people managed to sign up, we've contacted those who've claimed they were unable and we are including them too. We've been working night and day to make this happen, we all have real jobs and are not getting paid for this. Sorry if it's not up to your standards but I ensure you it's not out of laziness.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2) by jmoschner on Friday April 18 2014, @05:03PM
Thank you for taking hte time to respond and explain.
just and FYI I've used survey monkey in the past and know others that have. It doesn't require you hand over a bunch of emails. (you can if you want, but don't have to). You make a simple survey. It gies you the link or the option to embed it in your site. Who ever looked into it didn't look hard enough. The only email required is the suvery creator's when they first set up an account. To ID people in the survey just make a required question that asked for their soylent UN/UID or mail out the survey link yourselves.
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Friday April 18 2014, @05:36PM
I'm looking through the docs and a solution that would work in our situation is not obvious or simple, though I don't deny it's possible. Thanks for the explanation, it could be something to look into in the future. In this case though we'd still have had to email users ourselves (non-trivial with thousands of UIDs), and need some way for users to indicate that they'd like to opt-in (and might still be in a similar predicament with people frustrated that they did not do so in time). Furthermore, this solution would have required hundreds of dollars and use of a third-party, both of which we were trying to avoid.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 3, Informative) by cosurgi on Monday April 14 2014, @03:27PM
yes.
just type in your suggestion. Stop bothering about ">", it will be parsed correctly as long as you are inside that "--- BEGIN VOTE ---" block. It doesn't matter if you add ">" or not.
Do not overcomplicate. Do not do any extra edits. Minimize your work. Just type the letters with your suggestion and that [9] before it, don't change anything else. For example like this:
[9] superus.com
[9] evenbetternews.com
Leave it there. Just add yours.
You got it almost right. You do that inside the "--- BEGIN VOTE ---" block, not at the end of email.
you are welcome.
#
#\ @ ? [adom.de] Colonize Mars [kozicki.pl]
#
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Monday April 14 2014, @07:05PM
Thank you (and also mrcoolbp) for the clarification.
Now I just have to find a name that sounds good, but is not yet taken. Everything I try seems to already exist ...
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by cosurgi on Monday April 14 2014, @09:58PM
I know your pain. Took me about an hour to find something interesting... I used thefreedictionary to find synonyms of words I thought about.
#
#\ @ ? [adom.de] Colonize Mars [kozicki.pl]
#
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday April 26 2014, @05:57PM
Well, I ended up not submitting any because all those I could think of that I considered good were already taken.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @08:33AM
Overcomplicated is exactly the idea of setting up a vote-by-mail system, in 2014, and for a single use.
Why not use URLs with single use tokens giving access to a vote page?
If you have plans of some liquid democracy for SN, that is again predating the main goal (news) and, sorry, not a nice experiment.
I know how majordomo works, but please..just no.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:49AM
Seconded.
The au pirate party would have helped if asked
(Score: 2) by mojo chan on Wednesday April 23 2014, @05:08PM
So can we suggest names or not? The only email I ever had said no. How come?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)