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from the "All-lives-matter."-President-Obama dept.
Snipers in Dallas: [5] Cops Dead; [6] More Cops Wounded
The Atlantic reports:
Two gunmen shot eleven police officers in Dallas, Texas [at 8:58 PM July 7], killing at least four of them.
[...] At a Thursday night press conference, Dallas Police Department Chief David Brown said [...] officers had one of the suspects "cornered", but did not offer further details.
"Tonight, it appears that two snipers shot ten police officers from elevated positions during the protest/rally", Brown said in an initial statement. "Three officers are deceased, two are in surgery, and three are in critical condition. An intensive search for suspect is currently underway." The police department later said an eleventh officer had also been injured and a fourth officer had been killed.
[...] The shootings occurred during a protest against police killings earlier this week in Louisiana and Minnesota. Hundreds rallied in downtown Dallas, near the corner of Main Street and Lamar Street. Local news footage captured what sounds like several gunshots being fired, and the crowd scattering.
[...] No motive has yet been established and it's unclear whether the shooting was related to the protest.
The New York Times just broke the story about the latest in the police killings of black men. It seems the tide has been turned. [Five] Dallas police officers were killed tonight at a protest in that city over these shootings.
I am not surprised, nor am I particularly shocked. No doubt there will be more to come on this topic as the evening progresses. Hopefully something good comes out of this, but I am inclined to doubt it.
takyon: Some more details: One suspect was killed by an explosion intentionally caused by a police robot. He reportedly told a negotiator that he was upset about Black Lives Matter, the recent police shootings, and wanted to kill white people, especially police officers. He said he was not affiliated with any groups and acted alone. Other suspects have been arrested, and a "person of interest" (often identified as a suspect by the news media) was arrested early in the night after he was photographed with his unloaded AR-15. He handed his weapon to an officer shortly after the shootings, and later turned himself into the police for questioning.
President Obama spoke about the shootings shortly after arriving in Poland for a NATO conference. In part, he mentioned that, "When people say 'black lives matter,' that doesn't mean blue lives don't matter, it just means all lives matter — but right now the big concern is the fact that the data shows black folks are more vulnerable to these kinds of incidents [...] This isn't a matter of us comparing the value of lives. This is recognizing that there is a particular burden that is being placed on a group of our fellow citizens. And we should care about that. And we can't dismiss it. We can't dismiss it."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by jdavidb on Friday July 08 2016, @05:34PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Friday July 08 2016, @09:40PM
Nice lefty sentiment, but it is not rational in the least if actually implemented.
If you allow someone you are 90% certain is a killer to escape justice, it is highly probable they will kill again, probability varies some with the specifics of the individual case but it is always easier to kill the second time. You should also weigh the future innocent life that will be lost into the balance. There would be a difference in not convicting a person with an otherwise clean record who you are pretty certain killed in a situation likely to be a one off, i.e. who wouldn't present much of a future risk if they escaped punishment because there was some uncertainty. Compare with a gang banger with a long list of violent felonies up on a murder charge where the evidence for this particular murder is strong but not airtight, the winning move is probably to send him to prison because the alternative is unleashing him only to wait until he kills again.
There are always going to be innocent people in prison, not just the guilty who are lying, but actual innocent people. We should always strive to minimize that number, work to free those falsely imprisoned as new evidence is developed and harshly punish those in positions of authority who withhold exculpatory evidence. But our legal system is designed and operated by mortal, fallible humans, evidence is often incomplete and we will make mistakes. If our standard of evidence requires absolute certainty of guilt instead of beyond a reasonable doubt we will have chaos.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday July 08 2016, @09:52PM
Nice lefty sentiment, but it is not rational in the least if actually implemented.
That's a bedrock principle of English common law and came from Sir William Blackstone. It was in the lawbooks Abraham Lincoln studied from. It's not leftist in the slightest. Neither am I.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday July 08 2016, @09:56PM
If you allow someone you are 90% certain is a killer to escape justice, it is highly probable they will kill again, probability varies some with the specifics of the individual case but it is always easier to kill the second time.
Which is why I support the right of people to arm themselves as well as all other rights of self-determination.
If our standard of evidence requires absolute certainty of guilt instead of beyond a reasonable doubt we will have chaos.
I'm not sure how you took my post to mean anything other than "beyond a reasonable doubt". Both that phrase and the one I posted have coexisted in the same legal system for many years.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday July 08 2016, @09:58PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday July 08 2016, @10:00PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 09 2016, @06:15PM
If you haven't noticed, we're moving to the right.
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Friday July 08 2016, @11:18PM
Holy dig shit!
There are always going to be innocent people in prison
That's because
It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer
Nice lefty sentiment, but it is not rational in the least if actually implemented…. We will make mistakes. If our standard of evidence requires absolute certainty of guilt instead of beyond a reasonable doubt we will have chaos.
Let me elucidate.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
—Some guy who liked porking French chicks
(Score: 2) by nitehawk214 on Saturday July 09 2016, @01:47AM
Lefty sentiment? What the actual fuck?
So, what, you would rather round up an imprision or execute random people as a deterrent?
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 09 2016, @02:47AM
I am sure he would.
Jmorris is one of those creeps who has absolutely no empathy.
He is literally unable to conceive of the possibility that he might be falsely accused one day.
Except by an SJW, those guys falsely accuse him every day.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday July 10 2016, @05:45AM
"Empathy" is a dirty word around these parts, it seems :(
So let's use something else: "basic fucking human decency." There is something *broken* in this man's brain. I don't know if he's a clinical sociopath or what, but just trying to imagine the state of mind someone has to be in to say the shit he does is nightmarish. It's like some kind of black hole with a viewport.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 09 2016, @02:27PM
So, it is your position that a man on trial for murder should be convicted if you are only 90% sure that he is guilty? You've heard all the evidence, you've heard the alibi, you've heard all the circumstantial nonsense, and you are only 9/10 sure of guilt. So - you vote guilty.
Then I would say that you share in the guilt when the REAL killer kills again. You "solved" this crime by locking away an innocent man, and the cops stopped looking for the real killer. Case closed.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 09 2016, @07:33PM
If you allow someone you are 90% certain is a killer to escape justice, it is highly probable they will kill again
jmorris!! In da house!! Pushing the Pre-crime!! WhooHoo! Yes, we definitely should convict and incarcerate people based on crimes they might commit in the future. In fact, the stats show that certain characteristics are associated with future crime, like belonging to conservative, racist political groups; posting batshit crazy opinions to news aggregation internet sites; being opposed to gun control: do we know anyone who fits this profile?