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from the "All-lives-matter."-President-Obama dept.
Snipers in Dallas: [5] Cops Dead; [6] More Cops Wounded
The Atlantic reports:
Two gunmen shot eleven police officers in Dallas, Texas [at 8:58 PM July 7], killing at least four of them.
[...] At a Thursday night press conference, Dallas Police Department Chief David Brown said [...] officers had one of the suspects "cornered", but did not offer further details.
"Tonight, it appears that two snipers shot ten police officers from elevated positions during the protest/rally", Brown said in an initial statement. "Three officers are deceased, two are in surgery, and three are in critical condition. An intensive search for suspect is currently underway." The police department later said an eleventh officer had also been injured and a fourth officer had been killed.
[...] The shootings occurred during a protest against police killings earlier this week in Louisiana and Minnesota. Hundreds rallied in downtown Dallas, near the corner of Main Street and Lamar Street. Local news footage captured what sounds like several gunshots being fired, and the crowd scattering.
[...] No motive has yet been established and it's unclear whether the shooting was related to the protest.
The New York Times just broke the story about the latest in the police killings of black men. It seems the tide has been turned. [Five] Dallas police officers were killed tonight at a protest in that city over these shootings.
I am not surprised, nor am I particularly shocked. No doubt there will be more to come on this topic as the evening progresses. Hopefully something good comes out of this, but I am inclined to doubt it.
takyon: Some more details: One suspect was killed by an explosion intentionally caused by a police robot. He reportedly told a negotiator that he was upset about Black Lives Matter, the recent police shootings, and wanted to kill white people, especially police officers. He said he was not affiliated with any groups and acted alone. Other suspects have been arrested, and a "person of interest" (often identified as a suspect by the news media) was arrested early in the night after he was photographed with his unloaded AR-15. He handed his weapon to an officer shortly after the shootings, and later turned himself into the police for questioning.
President Obama spoke about the shootings shortly after arriving in Poland for a NATO conference. In part, he mentioned that, "When people say 'black lives matter,' that doesn't mean blue lives don't matter, it just means all lives matter — but right now the big concern is the fact that the data shows black folks are more vulnerable to these kinds of incidents [...] This isn't a matter of us comparing the value of lives. This is recognizing that there is a particular burden that is being placed on a group of our fellow citizens. And we should care about that. And we can't dismiss it. We can't dismiss it."
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2016, @04:33PM
Without any interpretation on my part, here are the numbers for violent crimes per capita between black and white people in the US.
US Population - white alone --> 223,553,265
US Population - black alone --> 12,795,675
# of whites arrested for murder --> 3,807
# of blacks arrested for murder --> 4,224
% of whites in US arrested for murder --> 0.0017029 %
% of blacks in US arrested for murder --> 0.0330112 %
These are only arrests not convictions, but you roughly 19 times more likely to be murdered by a black person than a white person.
I could expand this out to look at all violent crimes, but just looking over the FBI's crime stats seems to suggest that this pattern holds.
Police are probably more aggressive toward black suspects as they tend to be more deadly to deal with than other races at the moment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2016, @04:59PM
Woah woah, facts like this are illegal in some countries. e.g. Sweden. Tone it down on the facts, we need to stick to a race baiting narrative. You don't want anyone calling you a bigot, DO YOU? Elections are right around the corner and we need to keep the black population stirred up so they will get out there and vote democrat to "solve" these issues.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2016, @05:08PM
Without any interpretation on my part
The users here are smart enough to recognize the context of the numbers you post mean and you interpret anyway:
you are roughly 19 times more likely to be murdered by a black person
There is a clear race and age bias to those numbers because the vast majority of the offenders and victims are young black men. Your interpretation of those numbers is incomplete.
Here is a post with some relevant citations:
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=14393&cid=371544#commentwrapoughly [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by SecurityGuy on Friday July 08 2016, @05:09PM
Put another way:
% of whites in the US NOT arrested for murder: 99.998%
% of blacks in the US NOT arrested for murder: 99.967%
If you walk up to a random person on the street, they're nearly certain not to be a murderer, regardless of their race. One of the core principles in our criminal justice system is (or should be) that while absolutely, we want to lock away or execute murderers, we really want to not harm the 99.9%+ of innocent people.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by jdavidb on Friday July 08 2016, @05:34PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Friday July 08 2016, @09:40PM
Nice lefty sentiment, but it is not rational in the least if actually implemented.
If you allow someone you are 90% certain is a killer to escape justice, it is highly probable they will kill again, probability varies some with the specifics of the individual case but it is always easier to kill the second time. You should also weigh the future innocent life that will be lost into the balance. There would be a difference in not convicting a person with an otherwise clean record who you are pretty certain killed in a situation likely to be a one off, i.e. who wouldn't present much of a future risk if they escaped punishment because there was some uncertainty. Compare with a gang banger with a long list of violent felonies up on a murder charge where the evidence for this particular murder is strong but not airtight, the winning move is probably to send him to prison because the alternative is unleashing him only to wait until he kills again.
There are always going to be innocent people in prison, not just the guilty who are lying, but actual innocent people. We should always strive to minimize that number, work to free those falsely imprisoned as new evidence is developed and harshly punish those in positions of authority who withhold exculpatory evidence. But our legal system is designed and operated by mortal, fallible humans, evidence is often incomplete and we will make mistakes. If our standard of evidence requires absolute certainty of guilt instead of beyond a reasonable doubt we will have chaos.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday July 08 2016, @09:52PM
Nice lefty sentiment, but it is not rational in the least if actually implemented.
That's a bedrock principle of English common law and came from Sir William Blackstone. It was in the lawbooks Abraham Lincoln studied from. It's not leftist in the slightest. Neither am I.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday July 08 2016, @09:56PM
If you allow someone you are 90% certain is a killer to escape justice, it is highly probable they will kill again, probability varies some with the specifics of the individual case but it is always easier to kill the second time.
Which is why I support the right of people to arm themselves as well as all other rights of self-determination.
If our standard of evidence requires absolute certainty of guilt instead of beyond a reasonable doubt we will have chaos.
I'm not sure how you took my post to mean anything other than "beyond a reasonable doubt". Both that phrase and the one I posted have coexisted in the same legal system for many years.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday July 08 2016, @09:58PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday July 08 2016, @10:00PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 09 2016, @06:15PM
If you haven't noticed, we're moving to the right.
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Friday July 08 2016, @11:18PM
Holy dig shit!
There are always going to be innocent people in prison
That's because
It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer
Nice lefty sentiment, but it is not rational in the least if actually implemented…. We will make mistakes. If our standard of evidence requires absolute certainty of guilt instead of beyond a reasonable doubt we will have chaos.
Let me elucidate.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
—Some guy who liked porking French chicks
(Score: 2) by nitehawk214 on Saturday July 09 2016, @01:47AM
Lefty sentiment? What the actual fuck?
So, what, you would rather round up an imprision or execute random people as a deterrent?
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 09 2016, @02:47AM
I am sure he would.
Jmorris is one of those creeps who has absolutely no empathy.
He is literally unable to conceive of the possibility that he might be falsely accused one day.
Except by an SJW, those guys falsely accuse him every day.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday July 10 2016, @05:45AM
"Empathy" is a dirty word around these parts, it seems :(
So let's use something else: "basic fucking human decency." There is something *broken* in this man's brain. I don't know if he's a clinical sociopath or what, but just trying to imagine the state of mind someone has to be in to say the shit he does is nightmarish. It's like some kind of black hole with a viewport.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 09 2016, @02:27PM
So, it is your position that a man on trial for murder should be convicted if you are only 90% sure that he is guilty? You've heard all the evidence, you've heard the alibi, you've heard all the circumstantial nonsense, and you are only 9/10 sure of guilt. So - you vote guilty.
Then I would say that you share in the guilt when the REAL killer kills again. You "solved" this crime by locking away an innocent man, and the cops stopped looking for the real killer. Case closed.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 09 2016, @07:33PM
If you allow someone you are 90% certain is a killer to escape justice, it is highly probable they will kill again
jmorris!! In da house!! Pushing the Pre-crime!! WhooHoo! Yes, we definitely should convict and incarcerate people based on crimes they might commit in the future. In fact, the stats show that certain characteristics are associated with future crime, like belonging to conservative, racist political groups; posting batshit crazy opinions to news aggregation internet sites; being opposed to gun control: do we know anyone who fits this profile?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2016, @06:01PM
Comments like yours make me wish there was a special +6 insightful score.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday July 08 2016, @05:11PM
These are only arrests not convictions....
Exactly. It could also indicate that you are simply more likely to be arrested if you are black, regardless of whether you have committed a crime.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2016, @05:26PM
So from your numbers about 33 out of 100,000 blacks will be arrested for murder at some point in their lives. How many of those murders occur when cops are present when they may be able to do something about it? Does 1 in 10 sound reasonable? If it does then law enforcement would come across one black murder per 30,300 black people they encounter. Do we really think that those odds are enough for a cop to treat every black person hostilely during every encounter?
For similar odds... should a student at a major University feel scared that they are going to be physically assaulted by every other student on campus because there was one case during that school year?
(Score: 3, Touché) by EvilSS on Friday July 08 2016, @05:54PM
So what I think you want us to take away from this is that 0.031308% of the white population is an uncaught murderer. Kind of scary.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2016, @07:09PM
You'll never take me alive coppers!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 08 2016, @06:41PM
"These are only arrests not convictions, but you roughly 19 times more likely to be murdered by a black person than a white person."
No, this just means you're 19 times more likely to be arrested without proof or reason by a cop if you're black. Show us stats for actual convictions and we'll at least -start- to talk about it.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday July 08 2016, @07:40PM
Now the $64,000 question here is, WHY is this 1900% higher rate the case? This is where the ones looking for some excuse to be racist shitstains go "because nignogs gonna nig." Those of us whose knees still bend while walking (other than to jerk, I mean), though, will start considering the confounders here, things like poverty, lack of societal enagement, lack of opportunity, etc. None of that is to excuse crime of course; murder is murder. But it's worth pointing out that a) there is no specific "murder gene" and b) it's certainly not correlated with melanin genes.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Mr Big in the Pants on Friday July 08 2016, @09:10PM
"there is no specific "murder gene""
Not entirely true. Sociopathic and psychopathic behaviour has been shown to have a hereditary component.
However I am not disagreeing with your overall statement and about the environmental issues. Although they also have a hereditary component in that kids of violent and poor homes/communities have a MUCH higher chance of growing up the same.
Basically what I think I am saying here is you need to break the cycle and identify those at risk early. This requires government money and thus will never happen in the US anytime soon.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 09 2016, @02:48PM
P.S.
I know you still love me!
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 09 2016, @02:46PM
But there really is a murder gene. Most people count sheep to fall asleep. Or listen to soothing music. Or get laid. Unlike any of those people, I put my headphones on, and listen to the sound effects of war. I really want to mist the bedroom with the smell of napalm, but haven't found a safe way to do that. Mortars - I love the sound of mortars. ker-CHUNK - wholesale murder and mayhem.
Fact is, every time I hear IT techs talking about a "firewall" I think of this scene. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k26hmRbDQFw [youtube.com]
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 1, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday July 10 2016, @05:46AM
Yeah, I knew from our first interaction that you're a sicko. You, at least, have the morals and the mental fortitude to (mostly) keep it in check. It puts me in mind of a paedophile who is very, very scrupulous not to harm a child.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday July 10 2016, @06:34AM
Now, THAT is amusing. :^)
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 1, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday July 10 2016, @08:40AM
Keep laughing, Runaway...that kind of reaction is a transparent admission that I've hit a sore point. It fools no one who's versed in even elementary personality analysis. So long as you keep it under control and don't become like a few other people I can and constantly do name there won't be any problems.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by el_oscuro on Friday July 08 2016, @11:48PM
And I keep hearing stories about black people who were convicted of murder who were later exonerated by DNA evidence, usually after serving many years in prison. Most of these convictions tend to be based on eyewitness accounts of white people. And that is convictions, not just arrests. So that 19 to 1 ratio is more a symptom of the system being rigged against black people than any real difference between them and white people.
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