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Google is designing a new operating system (also at Github) based on its own new kernel (Magenta), which may be intended to unify/replace Android and ChromeOS. It is also expected to run on a wide range of ARM and x64 devices, such as Chromecast, Raspberry Pi 3, smartphones, laptops, and desktops.
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Google's New Non-Linux OS: Fuchsia
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Stone's Law:
One man's "simple" is another man's "huh?"
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Hyperturtle on Sunday August 14 2016, @09:23PM
looks like windows 10 with universal apps to me. I'll pass, but I am sure it will make for as valuable of a free OS as the last windows 10 giveaway with universal apps downloadable only from a company controlled store was. Windows 10 never quite made the splash with their phone tie-in, but the OS has phoned home and we can see what it has had to say. It looks quite a bit like what this google product is speculated to look like--considering the phone tie-in was supposed to work.
On the other side of the looking glass, I guess google needed a desktop space so they could show personalized ads in their start menu too, having missed out on that revenue? it isn't often they are behind the curve. Now that they can see what is tolerated, they can put this up for free and people will willingly download it and embrace their required login to google rather than resist having it forced on them by microsoft and logged into microsoft all the same. Google never really let you do much locally without that tether, though; MS couldn't break that chain of legacy expectations, but they are doing a good job of making the cloud chains just as strong of a tether as legacy support has been.
A strange lot us IT geeks can be, when choosing our masters. They at least used to look differently; now they both are trying to do much of the same things.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Sunday August 14 2016, @11:15PM
This OS, and Android is quite different in that it's actually frikkin' open source. Phone home? Show ads? Fork it. Android does neither of those. It's hard enough for Android (and Linux) to compete against the monopoly Microsoft has and all the free drooling advertising Apple gets without people spreading bullshit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @10:14PM
Android does indeed show ads and phones home. Or maybe you were referring to the completely unusable anywhere but virtual machines OSS version of Android which has nearly zero support for any device because all important drivers are closed source.
Regarding Fuchsia, being Open Source is not enough to make the product trustworthy; the OS must also not rely on closed source modules (device drivers, binary blobs etc) to work. Just look at how disgraceful Android has become: they keep telling it's open but all the important parts are closed, so that the number of phones/tablets where you can install a native Linux distro in 2016 is essentially zero.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday August 15 2016, @10:21PM
Yeah, good luck loading your fork on your device when the bootloader only loads signed images. You think they're going to make it easy to load alternative firmware on their devices?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Monday August 15 2016, @11:35PM
Well, they do now. In fact, they actually make it easier than anyone else I know of.
If you want to pick on Google, pick on them for something real, like supporting the TPP.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday August 16 2016, @12:57AM
Google is not "they", there's something like a dozen Android phone makers, and then you also need to count all the other device manufacturers too (TFS says that this new OS is not just for phones, but for all kinds of other devices including desktops).
(Score: 2) by everdred on Wednesday August 17 2016, @08:09PM
Sure they are. Google is effectively the manufacturer of Nexus devices, where bootloader unlocking is a standard feature.
(Score: 2) by Hyperturtle on Thursday August 18 2016, @02:56PM
All of my android tablets seem to make connection attempts to 8.8.8.8 or 8.8.4.4 despite manual IP address configuration for DNS; or DHCP assignment of numerous other DNS addresses. Note that none of these are 'new' tablets. All are on 4.x something or other.
Do you know why android devices report to google in this regard? I had to block 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 on the network firewall; for some of my local-only tablets, I had to enter an invalid gateway prior to taking the drop packet actions at the network edge. (like for the pipboy app that needed wifi but not internet access; even without going to the internet via my direction, the tablet sure tried to. the application was installed via an SD card and running the apk)
These connection attempts are most easily observable with a packet capture; even t-shark right on the tablet can demonstrate this, if you don't have a means of monitoring the traffic on the wire prior to hitting a firewall (or checking on the firewall itself).
The Google DNS is really convenient to remember, its free to use and many people tell their friends to use it, but I don't feel like it seems necessary for my devices to go there anyway. My local DNS seems to be much faster since it's already cached the results of most of what I go to...
I am not sure what lengths I would need to do to ensure an actual android phone didn't continue to make those 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 connections on a cell network. Recall that Windows firewall ignores various blocks to MS IPs and domains, and that for that traffic to get blocked, host files and windows firewalls are not going to work; you need to do it externally.
That isn't possible on the phone network; once it leaves the phone via the cell service it's gone, and my firewalls can't really do anything about that.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Thursday August 18 2016, @04:58PM
Thanks, I'll have to check this out. I've never noticed before. What names were being looked up? My guess would be that this would be something related to being logged into a Google account rather than being in raw Android, but I could be wrong. Still wrong ignoring DNS settings in pretty much all cases regardless.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 14 2016, @09:31PM
Perhaps they want to get away from the entire thing, start fresh, 100% their code. Will be sad for all of us in the Android/Google ecosystem as i would expect that to be depreciated, rendering millions of devices crippled.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by julian on Sunday August 14 2016, @09:53PM
Most Android users replace perfectly good hardware every 12-18 months. Android already depreciates itself every year, and devices older than 2 years aren't even considered in decisions like this. The security paradigm for Android is "buy a new phone". While it's possible to safely use certain Android devices for reasonable lengths of time (3-4 years) you practically have to be a skilled Linux sysadmin to get that kind of performance and lifespan. Handing one of these devices to an unsophisticated user quickly turns it into a malware infested brick.
The weirdest thing is that your average person accepts this as normal and willingly pays $400 every year or two for a new device believing that to be the proper solution. This turnover rate makes it easy for Google to quickly pivot to a new OS. They know that in just a couple years the majority of their users will have replaced their devices anyway. Who needs legacy support?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Celestial on Sunday August 14 2016, @10:17PM
Indeed. The two good sides to this are that it's open source, and maybe... just maybe... having learned from the debacle that is Android security, Google will make it easier to update. Doubtful, but hey, I can wish.
(Score: 4, Informative) by MostCynical on Sunday August 14 2016, @10:48PM
Google already knows how to do security updates.
So do the handset manufacturers.
That they don't bother (in some casss, they don't bother updating the phone's OS *ever*) tells you all you kneed to know about the manufacturers. They *love you*, so long as you buy a new phone every year or two.
Otherwise, you are a loser, and no one likes a loser.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 5, Informative) by Nerdfest on Sunday August 14 2016, @11:16PM
I have a 3 year old Nexus and still get OS and security updates. Yeah, I don't think Google is the problem in this case.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @03:31AM
Here's half of the reason why: http://www.htc.com/us/go/htc-software-updates-process/ [htc.com]
It costs money and time. And for what benefit to them and to their users?
The fact is there are plenty of people with unpatched phones that don't get pwned. What you need to prioritize is patch/secure their default browsers. Nowadays not as people install random apps anymore. For those who do, not having updates matters little since they're the sort who'd allow random apps max permissions anyway.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday August 15 2016, @10:01PM
> It costs money and time. And for what benefit to them and to their users?
My BB Priv updates about monthly. Makes me want to buy a new device from a company providing regular security updates next time, which narrows the field very quickly and benefits the people doing it.
It's like buying cars, but people do it more often. Give people a good experience and reliability, and they'll come back to you even if you don't have the best specs on paper.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Tuesday August 16 2016, @09:39PM
But a lot of users don't consider frequent updates to be a good experience. To the average user, if there's no update and the phone works as expected, then there's no problem. If they get infected and it starts slowing down, it's just getting old. If the company releases frequent updates, they must not know what they're doing since they couldn't get it right the first time. If the update doesn't change anything in the UI, then it was a waste of their time and bandwidth. If it DOES change something in the UI, then it's an annoyance making them relearn things.
WE know why frequent updates may be beneficial, and we understand that security is not static...but the average cellphone user doesn't always have that same understanding.
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Monday August 15 2016, @09:58AM
Deprecates, not depreciates.
(Score: 3, Touché) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Sunday August 14 2016, @09:58PM
Will be sad for all of us in the Android/Google ecosystem
Why sad? Two crippled systems will be replaced by one crippled system - isn't that an improvement?.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Sunday August 14 2016, @09:34PM
Like "fucks ya"? What new and innovative ways of invading the user's privacy will Google implement in it?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 14 2016, @09:45PM
Fyew-zha.
It's the name of a plant with pinkish-purple flowers. [google.com]
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Funny) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday August 14 2016, @09:47PM
filter error: comment too short.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday August 14 2016, @10:13PM
It should be "fook seeya", which incidentally was also my first reaction to the news item.
Google doing to the OS what it did to web development with chrome, I can't wait.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Sunday August 14 2016, @10:53PM
I thought the exact same thing :)
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @01:41AM
They want a new bitch (look up "furcia"), previous one is too robotic.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by opinionated_science on Sunday August 14 2016, @10:25PM
Well unless this new work is GPL, sod them. We might as well go and get meego, with libhybris (assuming it continues to work) and tell google where to shove it.
Human society needs to come up with a system where corporations carry out tasks for the good of society, with resources more efficiently for the benefit of all.
Not, artificially lock up resources by leveraging tax breaks, and then dribbling out advances to maximise profit and supress competition.
Oh dear, my tin foil seems to have slipped..../sarc
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @12:07AM
Linus' insistence on a constantly moving driver API means that it is impossible to upgrade the kernel on most Android devices. Which means that the tremendously wasteful security model of "just buy a new phone" every 1.5-2 years is partially his fault.
Linus Torvalds is responsible for much of the technical waste we have created over the past 10 years.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @12:22AM
If you really feel that he is the cause, then call Linus out on it on a public list he will see. He won't hold back his comments, so I would not hold back your comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @02:23AM
Why? He knows where the fuck I stand on this issue.
(Score: 5, Informative) by FatPhil on Monday August 15 2016, @06:52AM
Answer - every time.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @07:23PM
Random companies in the world aren't always going to (or be able to) recompile/change their drivers just because the kernel decides to be incompatible. For one, they might no longer be around to do so.
In comparison Windows XP managed to retain compatibility with most drivers (and malware ;) ) through nearly 15 years of kernel updates.
So even if some random manufacturer in Taiwan goes out of business the same Win XP drivers would still work the same way when you bought the hardware- they might work like crap but if you accepted that crap 15 years ago and the hardware hasn't died it'll still be at the same level of crappiness. You might even have an ISO procedure for tolerating it...
Whereas you can't say the same for Linux. Random idiots may claim that there's a whole bunch of Linux kernel developers queuing up to write drivers for hardware, but that's just bullshit - since in practice most of them will want documentation or source code which isn't going to be available from no longer existing manufacturers.
And random idiots can also say the manufacturer should have provided the source in the first place. Yeah they should and I should also have ten million dollars. Heck, in some cases manufacturers might actually have provided source, but the source doesn't work with the actual hardware you bought. Sure, I'm making stuff up. But whose bullshit is closer to reality?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday August 16 2016, @07:28AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday August 16 2016, @07:43AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @06:48PM
I used to run Linux on my personal computer, but I got fed up with throwing out perfectly good hardware every too years.
(Score: 2) by Geotti on Monday August 15 2016, @04:54PM
Human society needs to come up with a system where corporations carry out tasks for the good of society, with resources more efficiently for the benefit of all.
Sure thing, here you go [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Interesting) by darkfeline on Sunday August 14 2016, @10:34PM
I think they might be open sourcing it because it's dead. ChromeOS is getting the ability to run Android apps natively, after all.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by takyon on Sunday August 14 2016, @10:44PM
Any time I've heard about ChromeOS devices, it was about how the category was growing well amid the decline of the PC market.
The app/game selection on ChromeOS definitely sucks. I'm also not convinced that my feeble device will be able to run the more useful Android apps very well. But letting ChromeOS devices run Android apps is an easy way to make them much more useful since there are so many of them.
It will be interesting to see how the permissions system is handled.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Gravis on Monday August 15 2016, @03:34AM
it's way too active to be dead. https://fuchsia-review.googlesource.com/#/q/project:magenta [googlesource.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 16 2016, @09:19AM
Could be zombie or misc undead.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Monday August 15 2016, @01:16AM
The good news: It's a proof of concept for a garbage collected ukernel with musl & golang.
Sad observation: Someone let Leonard Pottering write an OS to go with systemd. And it looks like there's enough of LOC there for them to just keep pushing it for a decade on sheer momentum.
compiling...
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Monday August 15 2016, @02:11AM
Someone let Leonard Pottering write an OS to go with systemd.
I'm unsure whether you mean that literally, or if it's a joke, sarcasm, or a metaphor. Looking at https://fuchsia.googlesource.com/ [googlesource.com] I don't see systemd listed as a component of Fuchsia. Nor did I see a mention of Lennaert Pottering's name in the OS News or PC World articles. As far as I know, he doesn't work for Google but for Red Hat.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @03:51AM
It's written in C.
(Score: 3, Informative) by RamiK on Monday August 15 2016, @07:31AM
I'm unsure whether you mean that literally
Yes it was sarcasm... But that you had to check proves my point: It smells object oriented in a very bad way.
It's written in C.
https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/magenta/blob/master/kernel/lib/magenta/magenta.cpp [github.com]
https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/magenta/blob/master/kernel/lib/magenta/thread_dispatcher.cpp [github.com]
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @01:53AM
Pick any two
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @04:04AM
I get to pick two? Fuchsyeah!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 15 2016, @10:22AM
If it's like android in terms of application rights, security and updates, then hell no.