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Germany's Federal Motor Authority recently sent letters to Tesla drivers reminding them that the "Autopilot" function is for driver assistance, not replacement. Now, Tesla is being warned against advertising the feature:
German Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt has asked Tesla to stop advertising its electric vehicles as having an Autopilot function as this might suggest drivers' attention is not needed, his ministry said on Sunday.
A spokeswoman for the ministry, confirming a report in the daily Bild am Sonntag (BamS), said the Federal Motor Transport Authority (KBA) had written to Tesla to make the request. "It can be confirmed that a letter to Tesla exists with the request to no longer use the misleading term Autopilot for the driver assistance system of the car," she said in a written response to a Reuters' query.
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Monday October 17 2016, @04:24PM
where German people have a thing called "the internet", and in 2 seconds flat, they can visit sites from abroad where Tesla cars are listed as having an autopilot feature. Besides, geeky and well-to-do Tesla owners especially, more than any other automobile brand owners, are likely to know all there is to know about their cars.
I'm always amazed that national institutions think banning advertisement of this or that within their national borders makes any difference whatsoever. People know what's going on outside the increasingly artificial boundaries of their countries, and if they can't get to the information they want, they always find a way around the censorship.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @04:38PM
So wanting to prevent companies from making misleading claims is now censorship?
I presume you must be one of those who have a large stake in the dietary supplements business.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday October 17 2016, @04:40PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @04:59PM
> Autopilots in airplanes don't do magic either.
And if Tesla were advertising to pilots that would be relevant.
But they aren't. And thus the definition of "autopilot" as understood by the general population is what matters.
Pointing at a relatively obscure technical definition is a cop-out.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday October 17 2016, @05:26PM
And thus the definition of "autopilot" as understood by the general population is what matters.
Sorry, I don't buy that. And I think a few large tickets for reckless driving "on autopilot" would disabuse the public of that notion too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @05:56PM
So all tesla's should have a giant warning light/sign like a dominos pizza car that says "ASSHOLE USING DANGEROUS AUTOPILOT FEATURE"
Seems fair to me!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @06:05PM
> Sorry, I don't buy that.
And no one is surprised. You regularly demonstrate a failure to understand all the people who do not live in your own head.
This is just the latest example of your callow, "I'm right, everybody else is wrong" logic.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday October 17 2016, @07:45PM
And no one is surprised. You regularly demonstrate a failure to understand all the people who do not live in your own head. This is just the latest example of your callow, "I'm right, everybody else is wrong" logic.
Be right and we'll have something to talk about. I doubt I have any failure to understand you.
Banning stuff because people are stupid opens the floodgates to never ending imposition. If someone can't figure out before they buy a Tesla that autopilot doesn't mean that the driver can just blow off driving, then they have no business driving. Fine them a bunch of money and take their license away. That's how real world law enforcement should work. Sane laws and appropriate punishments when people do things that are insanely reckless.
But some mealy mouthed bureaucrat having the power to decide that you can't do or say something just because people are stupid? That's a blank check for the bureaucrat to ban anything they want.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @08:56PM
Waiting for the crime to occur is actually a problem. No i don't mean pre-crime their asses to jail, rather that sensible prevention such as stopping clearly wrong ads or disvertising to to to masses is perfectly legitimate.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @09:02PM
> stopping clearly wrong ads or disvertising to the masses is perfectly legitimate.
Sorry, I don't buy that.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 18 2016, @08:40PM
disvertising
Even if we were to assume that is a real word, no one has yet to show what Tesla is supposedly "disvertising" about. So yes, I don't buy it once again. They just didn't give me enough gullibility to cover all these baseless claims made in this discussion.
(Score: 2) by weeds on Monday October 17 2016, @07:28PM
You can buy or sell whatever you want. That doesn't change what is actually true.
An aircraft autopilot and a automobile autopilot have just about nothing in common except the name. I wonder how many people have any idea at all what they do let alone how they work? In the (notably small) sample I have checked, the answer was "drive the car" or "fly the plane".
The most commonly used aircraft autopilot uses instrumentation to maintain a flight path by controlling up to all three axis and altitude. In most uses, they are used to maintain attitude and altitude (continue straight and level flight at altitude.) I'm not saying this is all they do, just that it is what they are mostly used for. Landing systems might be described as doing "scene recognition" in the most extreme case, but using radar to determine altitude is not the same as what a car does to recognize a scene. An aircraft autoland system uses a radio signal (advanced ILS) to land the plane (a radio signal, not scene recognition). No aircraft is going to confuse a big truck with sky since it doesn't know or care anything about either. By the way, they are used by pilots, who get a heck of a lot more training than any driver.
What I'm buying is that the understanding by the general public is all that matters.
Get money out of politics! [mayday.us]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday October 17 2016, @08:01PM
What I'm buying is that the understanding by the general public is all that matters.
Here's the obvious rebuttal. Does the general public drive Teslas? Answer: no, they don't. And even a rudimentary education effort (for example, a pamphlet that describes what the Telsa's autopilot feature actually does and how it works) would be sufficient to educate Tesla drivers as to what expectations they should have for the feature.
We shouldn't be compromising our society just because some people are stupid. If someone plunks down a large amount of Euros just because they heard that the Tesla has autopilot without even a little bit of effort to figure out what that autopilot is or does, then fuck them. If they then take it on the road and get caught snoozing while autopiloting, then heavily fine them, take their license, and possibly their Telsa away. If they then, kill other people in an accident, that's multiple cases of the German variation of manslaughter or negligent homicide. Let the wheels of justice grind. All the machinery to discourage people from killing other people with "autopilot" is already in place in Germany and elsewhere.
None of that excuses this abuse of power. There's never a reason to prohibit a business from using a straightforward name just because a clueless bureaucrat thinks stupid people won't get it. Sure, there are functional and implementation differences [soylentnews.org] between what Tesla terms "autopilot" and what is an autopilot in an aircraft. It's still a pretty accurate name for the system and likely to get more accurate as time goes on.
(Score: 2) by weeds on Monday October 17 2016, @08:29PM
"There's never a reason to prohibit a business from using a straightforward name..."
Actually, there is, it's called false advertising. One pilots an aircraft, they drive a car. Calling the car's driver assist system an autopilot is a misnomer to begin with. The car's "autopilot" does not do what an aircraft autopilot does as any pilot can tell you. If it did, it would maintain heading, altitude, and airspeed (forgot that one in previous post.) Not much use in a car.
Sitting back and watching stupid people kill themselves (and others) owing to their stupidity may make for enjoyable theater for some.
Get money out of politics! [mayday.us]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday October 17 2016, @08:41PM
And frankly, there are plenty of misnomers if we look even trivially at any part of society, like a computer. Where are the "keys" of a modern keyboard? All I see are buttons! The mouse isn't a real mouse. I want my money spent on the exercise wheel back. Male and female connectors, think of the children! Computer "memory" that forgets the moment you turn it off. A web browser? What twigs and shoots does it eat and where is its mouth? These strange technological terms frighten and confuse me!
I think it is telling that people keep speaking of Tesla's supposed misleading or false advertising without actually coming up with an example of it.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday October 17 2016, @08:43PM
Sitting back and watching stupid people kill themselves (and others) owing to their stupidity may make for enjoyable theater for some.
Changing the name of the system to something which is perceived as being slightly more innocuous (there really isn't much room for improvement here) isn't going to make stupid people less stupid.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @09:04PM
> The car's "autopilot" does not do what an aircraft autopilot does as any pilot can tell you
Sorry, I don't buy that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2016, @07:28AM
Try it yourself, then. Drive a to the top of a cliff. Set Tesla auto pilot to "maintain altitude". Drive off cliff.
If you survive, you were right.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 18 2016, @08:34PM
Set Tesla auto pilot to "maintain altitude".
You do realize that a Tesla maintains its altitude just fine on a road?
(Score: 2, Touché) by janrinok on Monday October 17 2016, @06:40PM
But they do allow pilots to take their hands away from the controls and concentrate on other tasks for short periods of time. Tesla's 'autopilot' does not.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Monday October 17 2016, @07:13PM
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @09:08PM
But they do allow pilots to take their hands away from the controls and concentrate on other tasks for short periods of time. Tesla's 'autopilot' does not.
What are you talking about?
Have you not seen all the videos of people doing exactly that?
Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqnJRo4FQNo [youtube.com]
There are tons more.
Tesla's autopilot does substantially more than an aircraft autopilot. And that's the root of problem.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday October 18 2016, @07:06AM
Exactly, we know it happens - idiots even show themselves on Youtube doing it - but they should concentrate on driving the car.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Thursday October 20 2016, @08:14PM
Thank you for demonstrating *the exact problem TFA is discussing*.
Because according to Tesla's own website, that ISN'T actually true. Yes, people do it, but the technology *is not designed to be capable of doing that*. What you're saying is equivalent to saying that a Galaxy Note 7 has a built-in cigarette lighter. Sure, you COULD use it for that under certain circumstances, but that's still not a true statement.
- https://www.tesla.com/presskit/autopilot#autopilot [tesla.com] (emphasis added)
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday October 17 2016, @08:08PM
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @09:57PM
Ah, I see. Tesla owners are not only richer than your average person, but clearly more intelligent too.
I'm sure their farts don't stink either.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18 2016, @07:33AM
Go on Youtube, search for Tesla autopilot. See how many of them think the "autopilot" allows you to take your hands off the steering wheel.
The so-called "autopilot" is not approved for that, and Tesla even insists that it is NOT good enough for driving without your hands on the steering wheel. Calling it "autopilot" misleads people into thinking that it will allow them to do that.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 18 2016, @02:22PM
(Score: 4, Insightful) by archfeld on Monday October 17 2016, @06:33PM
This is a refreshing take on TV commercials. It would be really cool if neither printed nor video based ads could show or imply that objects could perform actions they can't. Barbie can't walk or talk, your Nissan can't do a rail slide on a bridge, the image on the phone you are seeing is simulated and the network sequence is shortened, if you jump your Jeep like this the front axle WILL break and the car will be a total. The numbers quoted by phone networks are so slanted and meaningless. Drug commercials are horrible, there is more small print than can actually be shown in a 30 second spot and they literally have to refer you to a printed ad in a magazine, or a web site that contains 9 paragraphs that essentially deny all the claims they just made. I applaud the Germans for standing up in this one instance, but I'd like all vendors to be held to the same standards. All NEW is a claim that is tossed about constantly as well, which is almost always not true either.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @08:19PM
It doesn't matter, the advertising industry will just issue non-claims (shampoo that you say makes your hair feel more healthy). [strikethrough]autopilot[/strikethrough] autodrive. Etc.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @09:13PM
> I applaud the Germans for standing up in this one instance, but I'd like all vendors to be held to the same standards.
They mostly are. Europe (and the UK) have much more strict requirements for ads than the US does.
I'm too lazy dig up stories about other enforcement actions, but here's a EU primer:
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/consumer_rights/unfair-trade/false-advertising/index_en.htm [europa.eu]
(Score: 4, Touché) by butthurt on Tuesday October 18 2016, @04:00AM
I had passed through Washington Street thousands of times before and viewed the ways of those who sold merchandise, but my curiosity concerning them was as if I had never gone by their way before. I took wondering note of the show windows of the stores, filled with goods arranged with a wealth of pains and artistic device to attract the eye. I saw the throngs of ladies looking in, and the proprietors eagerly watching the effect of the bait. I went within and noted the hawk-eyed floor-walker watching for business, overlooking the clerks, keeping them up to their task of inducing the customers to buy, buy, buy, for money if they had it, for credit if they had it not, to buy what they wanted not, more than they wanted, what they could not afford. At times I momentarily lost the clue and was confused by the sight. Why this effort to induce people to buy? Surely that had nothing to do with the legitimate business of distributing products to those who needed them. Surely it was the sheerest waste to force upon people what they did not want, but what might be useful to another. The nation was so much the poorer for every such achievement. What were these clerks thinking of? Then I would remember that they were not acting as distributors like those in the store I had visited in the dream Boston. They were not serving the public interest, but their immediate personal interest, and it was nothing to them what the ultimate effect of their course on the general prosperity might be, if but they increased their own hoard, for these goods were their own, and the more they sold and the more they got for them, the greater their gain. The more wasteful the people were, the more articles they did not want which they could be induced to buy, the better for these sellers. To encourage prodigality was the express aim of the ten thousand stores of Boston.
—Edward Bellamy, Looking Backward
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Monday October 17 2016, @09:22PM
Perhaps they could use words that meant something that looks 'over' systems rather than piloting them -- and something less automation focused, maybe more 'human'?
I suspect a word that joins the two together, maybe in German would improve familiarity. I'd suggest one, but I'm drawing a blank.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @10:40PM
"Der Tesla OberCommandant"?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @11:17PM
Das BigMistaken if nein mittengrabben der steeringzeewheel und ich nich pokenzeebutton und footenzeepetroldeepedal.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 17 2016, @11:48PM
Driver Assist?