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posted by
janrinok
on Saturday November 12 2016, @05:03PM
from the it-was-pretty-good-then-too dept.
from the it-was-pretty-good-then-too dept.
People who were in the scouts or guides in childhood have better mental health in later life, a study suggests.
Analysis of a study of 10,000 people found ex-members were 15% less likely than other adults to suffer anxiety or mood disorders at the age of 50.
Researchers believe it could be the lessons in resilience and resolve that such organisations offer that has a lasting positive impact.
The researchers were from Edinburgh and Glasgow universities.
They looked at data from a lifelong study of almost 10,000 people from across the UK who were born in November 1958, known as the National Child Development Study.
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Scouts and Guides Provide 'Mental Health Boost for Life'
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You fill a much-needed gap.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday November 12 2016, @05:10PM
That's because scouts come from Christian families from backgrounds ranging from middle-class suburban to wealthy. Of course they're gonna have good mental health, they don't have to worry about how much longer their family can afford that apartment or being beaten up at school or on the streets for being "too nerdy" or a "goodie-goodie two-shoes."
Those lessons in "resilience and resolve" are good only because those scouts know that they will never have to use any of them, except for maybe tying knots.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @06:26PM
Did the study include the Hitler Youth?
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday November 12 2016, @07:10PM
Hey, leave the Texas A & M marching band out of this!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 13 2016, @01:21AM
Scouting was banned under the Nazis. [blogspot.com]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday November 12 2016, @06:39PM
Be nice or I'll start sending all the fat-assed women in southern Cali instructions on how to tie knots you can't get loose from in the bedroom.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday November 12 2016, @06:50PM
Bring them on. I shall slay them one-by-one with my mighty extender. [amazon.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 13 2016, @02:28PM
So you admit to having small hands.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 13 2016, @07:05AM
And they don't have to worry about the bleak dark realities of the universe because they are told it is all run by a magic sky fairy with happy bunnies and rainbows. And since scouting is usually religious based, they reinforce that BS. And for some bizarre reason they are still considered to be in "good mental health".
(Score: 4, Interesting) by janrinok on Sunday November 13 2016, @08:54AM
EF - if you look closely, you'll see that the study was conducted in the UK.
Scouting has been far more ethnically/racially diverse in the UK than it appears, according to your statements, to have been in the US. So your claim that it is because of a 'Christian' background is bullshit in this particular case. Christianity has been on the wane in the UK for many decades now. We don't have a Bible Belt. In fact, in many places just finding a church that is still in use can be quite difficult.
I also don't believe that the kids came from more wealthy families - certainly not the case in the Cub pack or Scout group that I belonged to in the 1960s. A very deprived area where scouting was encouraged because it made the kids far more independent and gave them an opportunity to take part in activities that they would not have otherwise been able to do.
Later, when I joined the military, I found that many of the attributes that I had developed whilst being in Scouting were most useful. Knot tying - sure, but so many other skills too. The ability to look at problems and to find original and innovative ways to solve them. Feeling comfortable when living outdoors, and capable of coping with the conditions that one finds there. Understanding that other people rely upon you to do your bit, just as you rely on others to do theirs. And the list could go on ...
Other youth organisations also turned out well balanced and capable lads, it wasn't just the Scouts. But most of the other organisations were tied to a religious background - the Church Lads' Brigade etc. Scouting, at least in my experience, was just as often entirely unconnected with any religious body or belief system.
Today, many parents are afraid to let their children play outside, let alone go camping in the big outdoors or to join in adventurous training. And the children themselves appear almost lost without a computer to play games on, or a smart phone that they can keep using throughout the day. Perhaps if more joined the various youth organisations that exist today they would become better adults in later life.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday November 13 2016, @01:09PM
gave them an opportunity to take part in activities that they would not have otherwise been able to do
I'd extend your remarks with a kid who's messed up is likely to become an adult who's messed up so a kid already suffering from mood disorders or whatever is both not likely to be interested in scouts AND likely to end up messed up as an adult.
Another factor probably not accounted for is you're pretty much forced to learn how to make friends and socialized in scouts, not really an introvert org.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday November 13 2016, @03:14PM
Very true, I certainly don't think that youth organisations can fix all of the problems. Equally, we haven't got solutions for many of the problems that exist among adults today, in which case it is unlikely that we can do much to address them in earlier years.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @05:48PM
Sigh....correlation is not causation...
I hate that term when snidely posted on forums inappropriately but in this case it fits the bill...
I could come up with a dozen reasons off the top of my head that they could not have controlled for. Unlike another poster who talked about back backgrounds and wealth which of course they will have controlled for. DUH)
Nothing to see here...
(Score: 4, Funny) by aristarchus on Saturday November 12 2016, @06:02PM
Maybe there is no causal link, but the correlation is good enough to provide some guidance on how to live your life! As for myself, I am right now going to try to have better mental health so that I could have been a Scout or a Guide earlier in my life. You see, causation only goes one way, but correlation is a two-way street!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @09:01PM
No, you are wrong.
I wont bother explaining because this is the internet and its pointless...
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday November 12 2016, @09:22PM
There is a 99.947% record of AC's being wrong when they assert a non-AC is wrong, so I can only infer that this statistic that you are wrong in your assertion that I are wrong. Do not blame the internets when it is you being AC that is causing your wrongness. Besides, Prof. Hawking agrees.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @07:27PM
correlation is not causation
So exactly when isn't this the case, especially in human endeavors?
Go to a shrink because you're feeling depressed?
correlation is not causation
Having a dog reduces blood pressure.
correlation is not causation
Midget clown porn makes for some weird feels.
correlation is not causation
It's not so hard to grok that essentially life training among a supportive peer group might yield some benefits in mental health and coping. Sometimes it isn't the correlation, but the lack of a fine enough instrument to measure.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @09:03PM
BLAH BLAH BLAH. Irrelevant.
You cannot draw causative conclusions from this study. ESPECIALLY this sort study.
Certainly not the one claimed.
If you don't understand why, there is not point explaining this further because you are a moron.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @10:04PM
That's great Jim, but that doesn't answer my charges.
There's inductive and deductive reasoning, not to mention reductionist fallacy which the mental midgets (god damn midgets are on the brain today) who cluck correlation is not causation fall prey to even as they are making the charge of questionable cause (improperly I might add, as your bountiful counter-arguments as to the flaws are no where to be found).
I mean hell, can you even describe the mechanism for depression? Then it must not exist.
This is what the learned would call weak evidence, but not the absence of evidence, which should merit further study so the causation(s) (if it exists) can be identified.
But many an internet expert who think that something as complex as the brain can be surmised in C!=C do adore how cogent and incisive they are even when staring down 10,000 years of human institutions that follow essentially the same pattern as the scouts while people in isolation tend to go mad.
there is not point explaining this further because you are a moron
More likely you lack the capacity to explain it because you don't understand it yourself.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Saturday November 12 2016, @10:15PM
The correlation between correlation and causation historically does not imply causation ;)
There's a correlation between every event that actually happened, by definition, but very few of those involve causation, for interesting definitions of causation.
When you base your system of beliefs around correlation = causation, you get religion (I prayed to God for a month, and my wish was granted!). When you base your system of beliefs around correlation != causation, you get science. One of these has brought more social advance in a thousand years than the other has in ten thousand.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by darkfeline on Saturday November 12 2016, @10:10PM
Pretty much all the time, since humans are inherently irrational and we justify our actions after we have already acted.
>correlation between eating at McDonalds and low income
Eating at McDonalds does not make you poor
>dog owners have lower blood pressure
People who are more active (and thus have lower blood pressure) are more likely to own dogs. Getting a dog if you have a sedentary lifestyle does not (necessarily) lower your blood pressure.
>Go to a shrink because you're feeling depressed
You might become depressed because of the psychologist. You believe what the professional tells you.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 13 2016, @01:49PM
Looks like you're not wary enough about the social sciences. For one thing, this is but one study; it hasn't been significantly replicated and there's no real scientific consensus about this matter. Secondly, studying subjective things like "mental health" is extremely prone to error and bias, and this is what makes the social sciences less reliable. This doesn't mean this particular study is wrong, but I will remain skeptical.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @09:20PM
Akela, we obey you!
Didn't like the scouts. Stayed only 1 day.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @09:41PM
I was in the cub scouts for a few weeks, was looking forward to camping and lighting fires and shooting archery and shit. Nope. It was all tying knots and prayer.
I said fuck it and quit to do real outdoor activities like jumping my bike, shooting cans (mexi-CANS, afri-CANS, and puerto ri-CANS) with BB guns, and making forts out of mud and tree branches.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @11:15PM
I learned how to dig slit trenches while participating in Scouts.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Sunday November 13 2016, @04:06PM
It varies widely depending on who your scoutmaster is. The first i had took us camping and taught us those outdoor skills i retain to this day. The second was a woman who wanted us to do arts & crafts and bake. I lasted four weeks with her before i walked away.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @09:40PM
Is good, if you do it on at least an occasional basis (kayaking 10 years ago doesn't count).
That's one good use for scouting, to give kids a push in the right direction. All the merit badge stuff wasn't so useful.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 12 2016, @11:23PM
This. Outdoor activities on your own or with a small group of family/friends.
Around here, the scouts (or more correctly the scout leaders) were known for cutting down lots of trees for no reason other than someone thought the forest needed clearing. No forester in sight to provide actual guidance. Bunch of jerks as far as I was concerned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 13 2016, @02:34PM
Will a canoeing merit badge count in my favor when I emigrate to Canada?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Bot on Saturday November 12 2016, @09:53PM
When you have marched around with those uniforms, hats and short pants, and endured the stares, OF COURSE 30 years later you are less likely to be anxious if you accidentally get ketchup on your shirt.
The mood also is going to be good because, you see, YOU ARE NOT IN THE SCOUTS ANYMORE.
DUH
JK, I have seen scouts doing some pretty good work.
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