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posted by janrinok on Saturday May 03 2014, @11:58PM   Printer-friendly
from the the-lingering-death dept.

Sebastian Anthony writes that Microsoft is setting an awful precedent by caving and issuing a fix for Windows XP. "Yes, tardy governments and IT administrators can breathe a little easier for a little bit longer," writes Anthony, "and yes, your mom and dad are yet again safe to use their old Windows XP beige box. But to what end? It's just delaying the inevitable." This won't be the only vulnerability found in XP adds Dwight Silverman. "If Microsoft makes an exception now, what about the flaw found after this one? And the next? And the one after that, ad infinitum?" Even though Microsoft has released a patch for the IE flaw, and Windows XP is included, it's time to move on really. "I don't want to hear that tired "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" line. Hey, XP IS broke, and it will just get more so over time. Upgrade to a newer version of Windows, or switch to another modern operating system, such as OS X or Linux."

 
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  • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Monday May 05 2014, @02:00AM

    by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Monday May 05 2014, @02:00AM (#39636) Journal

    Win 7 will run just fine on 1GB and don't even get me started on Linux, look up "The Hairyfeet Challenge" (which just FYI has been issued for over 5 years and not a single person stepping up to take the challenge) to see why Linux is completely unsuitable for anybody but the 1% that have the skill to debug bash scripts...which is why MSFT could put out a version that is as hated as WinME and Linux gains not a single point.

    --
    ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   2  
  • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday May 05 2014, @12:16PM

    by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Monday May 05 2014, @12:16PM (#39741) Homepage Journal

    Win 7 will run just fine on 1GB

    Sure, with a brand-new Windows install. This 5 year old Acer notebook runs W7 just fine with only one or two applications running, but if I go to Google News and open all the stories I want to read in tabs this thing comes to a screeching halt with Flash crashing from all the god damned flash advertising. It often takes minutes for it to recover.

    Meanwhile, I have a ten year o;d Dell tower still running XP. It had no trouble no matter how many tabs I had open. There's no way it would run W7 without being a total pain in the ass, even with a full 1 meg. Meanwhile, I have a similarly aged and speced HP tower running the latest kubuntu and the thing just flies.

    Give me a link to your challenge. I don't expect any non-nerd to be installing any OS whether Windows, Linux, BSD, whatever. But I've installed Linux on normals' computers after they repeatedly get infected and not one had any problem using it.

    --
    mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 05 2014, @01:59PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 05 2014, @01:59PM (#39784)

      The best you'll get out of that faggot is hysterical rambling rather than a simple statement of what the challenge is or why it matters. From [0], the challenge is to remove the command line and use a Linux based system for a year. The rationale is that modern, desktop systems do not use the command line. Because the majority of Linux based systems do use the command line, hairyfeet's logic goes, no Linux based system is a desktop OS and is instead a server OS.

      [0] https://knowtheworldfacts.wordpress.com/2012/11/29 /is-it-time-for-the-linux-command-line-to-sunset/ [wordpress.com]

      • (Score: 1) by jackb_guppy on Monday May 05 2014, @04:53PM

        by jackb_guppy (3560) on Monday May 05 2014, @04:53PM (#39843)

        My daughters (now 15 and 13) have been using Linux for over 2 years, without the command line. Yes, it is still available, but they do not use it let alone know it there. They use Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. I installed it on their netbooks with single core Atom, 1/2GB of memory and 8G of SSD. I wiped XP after the 4th virus mess. Showed them how to pick their own software. Even helped one, who had a Windows Game that must have -- to install wine...

        Since then they: started to use GIMP, figured out to get flash support, Download and installed ray tracing, and generally been have a good time. They are now showing their friends and helping them to cross-over...

      • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday May 05 2014, @05:30PM

        by urza9814 (3954) on Monday May 05 2014, @05:30PM (#39863) Journal

        From [0], the challenge is to remove the command line and use a Linux based system for a year.

        Wait, this is supposed to be comparing Windows to Linux? Shouldn't the challenge then be something that is possible to do in Windows? Going all the way back to Windows 3.1, there was definitely never a stretch as long as a full year in which I didn't use the command-line on a Windows system. Maybe a couple months here and there as the longest stretch. Today I haven't touched Windows at home in years, but I still need to use the command line on my XP laptop at work nearly every day! Even if you're not an advanced user, the first thing the help desk always tells you to do when you call is to open the command-line, so I don't see how there could be anyone in this entire office building who doesn't use the Windows command-line at least once a year, I've even seen people in the freakin' marketing department sitting there with command prompt open...

        • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday May 06 2014, @03:02PM

          by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Tuesday May 06 2014, @03:02PM (#40166) Journal

          That is NOT the complete hairyfeet challenge, that is a teeny tiny piece that frankly should be the most simple and even then? Good luck getting Linux to pass. See above you for the complete challenge, should take about an hour and a half to two hours using ubuntu, but feel free to use the system of your choice. at the end of the day the Linux drivers WILL be shit upon, with just a 5 years lifecycle the system WILL become completely unusable without having to pay someone like me several times what a Windows license is worth.

          Every time you have to go to CLI to fix an issue during the challenge? That is $75 to me, because the typical user doesn't understand bash scripting (which one HAS to understand because 9 times out of 10 the "open up bash and type" shit you are given on your typical forum WILL NOT WORK because it was written for hardware F,rev H and you have hardware F, rev j and Linus made Linux a picky bitch). Every time you boot up from the upgrade and you have no sound, wireless, or video? that will be $75 to me, because the typical user has NO idea how to debug driver issues. Every time you have to Google for fixes? $75...seeing a pattern here?

          Saying "Linux is ready for the masses" is like saying "everyone should make their own silverware" because there are people out there with the ability to make their own silverware. the particular skills required to 1.- debug scripts, 2.- troubleshoot failed drivers, 3.- use search engines to identify and track down the source of driver failures, and 4.- apply the information while being able to tweak on the fly any issues that arise is a set of skills 99.995% of the population does not have and the Linux numbers reflect that. Look at netbooks, they were practically designed around Linux hardware requirements yet what happened when MSFT lowered the price of XP, which just FYI was already a version behind and SEVEN YEARS behind the Linux offering? LINUX DIED, nobody took it, the sales dried up and blew away like a fart in the breeze, even though the Linux system were often cheaper and in some cases had better hardware...but why? the answer is simple and its the same reason why Linux netbooks had four times the returns (link available upon request) and that is because its buggy, its hardware support is terrible, and most folks would rather have plug and pray than plug and Google for fixes.

          So if you have the skills to admin Linux on the desktop? Good for you, so can I (although I have better things to do with my time) but we are in the less than 1% that have enough IT experience to do so, THIS IS NOT THE NORM and never will be, which is why Linux will never ever, not in a million fricking years EVAR go anywhere on the desktop.

          --
          ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
          • (Score: 2) by urza9814 on Tuesday May 06 2014, @06:00PM

            by urza9814 (3954) on Tuesday May 06 2014, @06:00PM (#40248) Journal

            Sounds like you haven't used Linux since around 2005...

            My mother ran Linux for three years on a Dell netbook. She doesn't know what the command-line is. She doesn't even know what Linux is. I did have to help her set it up by configuring Thunderbird -- the same way I had to configure Outlook on her desktop and the mail app on her iPad -- but otherwise I never touched the thing a single time. I was off at college. I didn't remote in, I didn't support her on the phone, I never heard a single complaint in three years. Pay up.

            • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday May 06 2014, @10:32PM

              by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Tuesday May 06 2014, @10:32PM (#40368) Journal

              Are we REALLY gonna play the TM game? I guess so so here enjoy your TMs, you used living in the past TM [tmrepository.com] along with Linux for grandmas [tmrepository.com] and you have just a hint of works for me TM [tmrepository.com] and you know WHY I can recreate your ENTIRE ANSWER in NOTHING but TMs? because it is all anecdotal bullshit and if you want to play that game my systems are all windows and I have never had a virus therefor Windows never have viruses...pay up bitch.

              So instead of wasting my time with more anecdotal bullshit you nut up or shut up and show us your work. the challenge is right there, is 100% free, easy to reproduce, and there are several 100% free places that will host your video. Be sure to show us your device manager and network manager showing you have it working and hooked via WPA V2 at the start (If you are using ubuntu that would be 7.10) and then upgrade using JUST the GUI (as your grandma would have had to do if you wouldn't have disabled updates, which since you claim you didn't admin her box that is EXACTLY what you did) and at each stage of the upgrade process..remember to keep the video rolling so we can see you don't drop into CLI or Google for fixes on another box!

              But you won't do it, instead you'll either throw insults or slink away because YOU KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN, we all know what will happen, Linux WILL shit all over its own drivers and it WILL end up a nasty stinking pile of fecal matter...you know this, I know this, hell the FOSSie faction knows this which is why a challenge that takes less than 3 hours, is 100% free, and takes nothing but a bit of a lazy afternoon has stood for FIVE YEARS without a single taker...not one, is the whole community chicken? Nope they aren't comp-letely pants on head retarded and know as well as i do what happens when you try to get Linux to run without all the Googling and open up bash and type [tmrepository.com] Linux falls down and goes BOOM! Not surprising really considering the maladjusted self centered devs that run the show. How many MAJOR pieces have been tossed out in the 6 years you will be simulating? lets see, ALSA for Pulse, Gnome 2 for GnomeSuck and KDE 3 for KDE "ZOMFG look we got pretty like Vista yo!" and that doesn't even consider all the stupid "hey lets change a pointer because it looks better that way" crap going on in the low level guts.

              so lets see your video or please don't waste our time with any more worthless anecdotes, okay?

              --
              ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
      • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday May 06 2014, @03:08PM

        by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Tuesday May 06 2014, @03:08PM (#40168) Journal

        That is NOT the challenge, please quit posting that old Link from the Linux loony club, okay FOSSIe? That was from an article on CLI and I challenged them to try living without Bash. THAT IS NOT THE HAIRYFEET CHALLENGE but its sad that you should keep bringing that up since NO LINUX WILL PASS THAT as Linux is such a CLI heavy mess that doing a chmod to the shell so it can't run? will leave pretty much every Linux distro unbootable.

        Kinda sad really, like Windows 98 you are completely dependent on some ancient POS underpinning for the entire OS and without it? It all falls down. But why should this be surprising, Linux still uses .INI files and frankly .VXD drivers would be considered high tech to the 1970s UNIX shit that passes for drivers. honestly Linux isn't even up to WinXP level yet, you MIGHT be up to WinNT 4 but no further, after all Win2K could be taken from RTM to final patch without a single driver failure, something Linux can't do in half the time, hence the challenge.

        --
        ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
    • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday May 06 2014, @08:52AM

      by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Tuesday May 06 2014, @08:52AM (#40066) Journal

      No problem, Here ya go! [slashdot.org] Sorry I had to use a link to Slash but I REALLY didn't feel the need to type the whole thing out again. The challenge simulates the "typical" (which is frankly giving a BIG advantage to Linux because when I came up with the challenge the typical lifecycle was 5 years, now its closer to 8) lifecycle of your average PC. To reflect the current landscape there are two changes from the original challenge, I'm sure you'll find both logical and fair...

      1.- No using LTM because Canonical has posted several times that LTM is NOT for home users, its for businesses, and this is to simulate what a HOME user will go through NOT a business, since businesses have IT people so the challenge would make no sense to test business users (not to mention if we were doing a business test I'd have to cook up some complex Excel and Word files,, come up with some tests for SAMBA VS AD, too much work) and 2.- You HAVE to have a wireless installed, be in PCI or USB or in the case of a laptop built in is fine, and have it connect to the system with WPA V2. I have added this because in the past 5 years I don't think I've run 3 lines in a home, they have ALL gone wireless. As to why WPA V2 that should be obvious, with so many living in apts and tract houses not only can not having security get you pwned by if one of your neighbors is a pedo it might even get you the cops on your door, so running without security in this day and age is unacceptable.

      Now there is two ways to do the challenge, if you wanted to take the original challenge (which frankly would better simulate the average lifecycle today) you would take the distro of your choice that was released when Windows Vista [wikipedia.org] was released, which if you were using say Ubuntu (since its supposed to be "user friendly") that would be either 7.04 or 7.10 [wikipedia.org] just depending on whether you'd like to go with the RTM or the public release date for Vista, or if you'd like an easier test you could choose Windows 7 [wikipedia.org] which would make Ubuntu at 9.10 [wikipedia.org].

      After that the test is CRAZY simple. When you first install you are the SYSTEM BUILDER, therefor you can use CLI, Google for fixes, whatever you need to do to get (again if you are using Ubuntu) 7.04 or 9.10 running WITH all the hardware up and running including wireless. Once you have it up and running start the camera roling, show in device manager and network manager you are fully functional with a wireless net connection...and this is key, because if it can't do this then frankly any and ALL arguments about Linux being a Windows replacement are moot...upgrade it using ONLY the GUI tools provided by the OS. Be sure to keep the camera rolling the entire process (so everyone can see you didn't bust out the CLI) and then upload the clip of the first install along with every subsequent reboot, making sure to show us the hardware still works and it still surfs, to Youtube. You can always slap the complete video on dropbox if anybody on youtube has any doubts you were able to pull it off.

      Good luck friend but I can tell you EXACTLY what will happen, Linux will take a big giant shit all over its own drivers and be an nonfunctional mess by the end. Oh and before a Linux fanboy says "That's not fair, you don't upgrade Windows!" show me a SINGLE distro aimed at consumers that gets 10 years of support WITHOUT having to jump on the clusterfuck that is the Linux upgrade deathmarch? then I'll agree 100%, until then the ONLY way a consumer can get the same amount of support is to deal with the upgrade mess. I have tried this challenge with every major consumer Linux, Ubuntu, PCLOS, Mandriva, hell I even did Fedora one year because a FOSSie swore up and down Fedora would pass...it didn't.

      I used to do the challenge every year and post what happened but I got tired of shelling out for all the extra bandwidth only to get told use Distro X [tmrepository.com] which I found the FOSie faction at /. used like a magical "get out of jail free" card. "You tested 7 different distros? Well if you would have used Distro X it would have worked like magic!". Considering that at any one time there are a couple hundred distros on distrowatch? I wasn't gonna play crazy whack a mole.

      So good luck, I'll be interested to see if you pull it off.

      • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday May 11 2014, @04:56PM

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Sunday May 11 2014, @04:56PM (#41849) Homepage Journal

        I've been installing various distros with KDE for over ten years; Suse, Mandrake, Mandriva, kubuntu, and the only time I see the CLI is if I forget my password. I install it in non-nerds' computers and they no longer need my support unless they have a hardware problem. Upgrading KDE requires one click of the mouse and a sudo password. Unless the kernel is being updated there are not even any reboots needed.

        As to drivers, Linux and Windows are opposite in that respect. With Linux, new equipment will often have driver problems, but if your computer is a few years old it won't have those issues. OTOH I had to upgrade to XP when I lost my driver CDs for my video card and sound chip, and they simply weren't available on the internet; I could only find drivers for XP, but you can be almost certain that a new computer will have Windows drivers for any peripheral you throw in it.

        That said, I've run into few driver issues in Linux. Ten years or so ago I bought a fancy Logitech wireless mouse/keyboard combo, and in Linux none of the extra controls worked; they were like stock keyboards. Someone must have ritten drivers because they work fine in kubuntu now. Also, I bought a video card with S-Video out and the S-Video didn't work in Linux. It does now, too.

        Maybe I just got lucky.

        You're right that many and perhaps most distros aren't suited for the home user, Red Hat for example. If I were running a server I'd probably use it, but not as a desktop or on a laptop.

        --
        mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
        • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Sunday May 11 2014, @07:55PM

          by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Sunday May 11 2014, @07:55PM (#41884) Journal

          What you wrote? Nothing but anecdotes and while your anecdotes may or may not be true that doesn't change the fact that anecdotes and data are two different things.

          The challenge is simple, easy to replicate, and won't cost anything but a few hours of your time on a lazy Sunday. But considering that during the period in question we had both the sound and wireless, as well as the two major DEs be totally gutted? I seriously doubt you'll pull it off. The test has been issued since Windows Vista came out, how many years ago was that? Yet we still have yet to see a single person complete the challenge, not one.

          If you want to spend the afternoon writing Linux anecdotes? go right ahead, I can do the same with Windows but it won't actually prove anything, other than we both have anecdotes. I'll be happy to take the next box that walks through the shop, slap Vista or Win 7 RTM and update to current and post the video of it all working although frankly I shouldn't have to as the odds of driver failure are pretty much nil, that is not and as long as Torvalds is in charge never will be the case for Linux. If you are so sure you can do it I will be happy to view the video.

          --
          ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.