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The ESA's web report discusses subsidence and (more rarely?) elevation of the earth's surface. It works especially well in cities, “down to millimetres. The technique works well with buildings because they better reflect the radar beam” They're studying the phenomenon worldwide.
The Sentinel-1 satellites have shown that the Millennium Tower skyscraper in the centre of San Francisco is sinking by a few centimetres a year. [...] Completed in 2009, the 58-storey Millennium Tower has recently been showing signs of sinking and tilting. Although the cause has not been pinpointed, it is believed that the movements are connected to the supporting piles not firmly resting on bedrock.
The Register succinctly summarizes the whole situation in this report:
It was expected to sink less than 10 inches during its lifetime. It's already slumped 16 inches, is listing a few inches to the northwest, and it could sink a further 31 inches. The European Space Agency today said its Sentinel-1 satellites, having scanned the city's surface, have found that the building is disappearing into the ground at a rate of a few centimetres a year.
The problem appears to be that it was not built all the way down to the bedrock, and instead is sitting on a concrete slab with piles that go down just 60 to 80-feet into an underlying layer of landfill. Lawsuits against the developers are, as expected, in flight.
It's alleged that the city's building inspectors knew back in 2009 that the tower was sinking but did nothing about it – not even alerting the public nor the apartments' owners. San Francisco magazine's Lauren Smiley and Joe Eskenazi have detailed this ongoing clusterfsck at length here; it's worth the read.
The Register article also provides a copy of the ESA's displacement map for San Francisco with the tower's location marked and provides a link to a higher-res map.
(Score: 4, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday November 28 2016, @04:27PM
Millennials are always slacking off on the job. No reason their tower should be any different.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Monday November 28 2016, @06:13PM
Nah, what figures is that cheating, lying, covering up, and denialism is going on, just like with Global Warming.
Pathetic that some of the residents are in denial that there are foundation problems, and are doing all they can to suppress fact finding and research. Perhaps they're anxious to sell their pig-in-a-poke residences to new suckers before any more damaging findings come out, after which let the disclosures flow. They're also scrambling for ways to blame others. Some are making a contrived argument to place blame on the construction of neighboring buildings.
Seems denial occasionally happens with construction. How about that 2013 building collapse in Bangladesh, in which garment workers were ordered to go to work as usual despite the discovery of huge new cracks in the structure? Or if that's too far away, there's the infamous 1928 St. Francis Dam disaster in California, in which the dam had developed new cracks and leaks over a 2 year period, and each time was inspected and declared safe, with the final inspection done by the top official the day before the catastrophic failure.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @10:02PM
A little context [smithsonianmag.com] would have been nice:
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @06:33PM
Leaning left, no doubt.
(Score: 3, Touché) by janrinok on Monday November 28 2016, @06:48PM
As usual, that would depend on your own position... ;-)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @06:52PM
Relax, there's probably an app to fix it.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Zz9zZ on Monday November 28 2016, @10:33PM
Sweet, TMB ruining shit again.
I really appreciate the freedom of speech focus on this site, and I will never advocate censorship, but I will repeatedly ask that you and other such users stop degrading the quality of discussions here. As one of the founders / maintainers I would think you would have more respect for the site, but instead you seem to treat it like your personal playground.
Spare me the "don't like it go build your own" speech, because that is just another immature reaction to avoid responsibility.
Can you express your response without diving back into ad-hominem attacks using SJW / snowflake / cuck / or whatever other insults I'm sure you'd like to throw my way? I expect something like "It was just a joke, come on 'Millenial tower sinking' was begging for that joke!" I doubt you'd admit that the "millenial" label is a bunch of crap and the characterization of entire generations is deeply flawed.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by LoRdTAW on Monday November 28 2016, @10:57PM
Seriously. I came here for a technical discussion but the first post is a crappy jab at Millennials from buzzard. Really sets the mood when you have a few more twats join in.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 29 2016, @01:48AM
Really, I came here expecting a jab at millennials, and I was not disappointed. Thank the Niggery Buzzard!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday November 29 2016, @03:07AM
You really should acquire a sense of humor. That's entirely too high a level of butthurt for a joke that wasn't a particularly harsh or even realistic dig.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Troll) by https on Tuesday November 29 2016, @09:40AM
First, it's not a joke. Or funny. Second, it is a continuous whining, like that of a mosquito. Maybe with malaria. Just a sound, you say? Ignore it? FUCK YOU. You're the forum equivalent of water torture.
Near as I can tell, you've got nothing but poison in your heart, and it regularly comes out in your posts. If I am wrong, I'm sure others shall forgive my error - given the evidence available.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday November 29 2016, @11:41AM
Oh now I call serious butthurt there. I make a lameass joke, you go absurdly over the top with rage. This is yet another reason why everyone else is disgusted with Millennials.
You need two things to stop this happening in the future:
Get both of those and you will cease being hate-filled little twats. People might even start to enjoy your company.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Wednesday November 30 2016, @09:38PM
The gripes aren't about your millenial joke, if it had come from another user or at least include something like (j/k you millenials are all right) THEN it would be a lame joke people could laugh at. However, you are very vocal about your opinions and they are often very negative about the younger crowd and more liberal crowd. With the election over it seems the more conservative user base feels that it is suddenly ok to be serious jerks and spew nasty shit everywhere just as the new president elect does. It is not OK, and its been recently ramped up to a degree that has been hurting discussions here.
The hallmark of insecure people is they lash out when called out for their own bad behavior and they put on the macho attitude and pretend like everything is OK. Walter from The Big Lebowski is probably the best pop culture reference I can provide, with his "calmer than you are" phrase when the Dude finally unloads his frustrations.
The extreme reactions you get are from people who have tried to be level headed (I think) yet all they get is serious crap back from you that derides them. Now, I will agree that the post you replied to was over the top on the rage aspect but that should clue you in that your behavior has some serious flaws. If that has zero effect on you then you should consider that you may have some sociopath/psychopath (I forget which is the one where people lose all empathy etc.) tendencies or are just repressing a lot of stuff.
I normally wouldn't have commented on your lame joke in the first place, but the constant bashing during the election and more so after has been getting out of hand. Sore winners are the absolute worst, so stop taking every little shot at people younger and more liberal than yourself before the site devolves further into shouting matches.
PS: the last while I've noticed better discussion so that has been a nice change of pace, lets keep it up.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday November 30 2016, @10:19PM
You mean just like every barely old enough to vote douchebag has been doing the past ten years or so? Cry me a river. The little fucktards decided this was the tone they'd prefer to argue in, so it's the tone they're getting.
And, no, you have no seen me explode all over anyone who was trying to have a civil conversation lately. If you think you have, you need to check your definition of civil for severe bias.
And, no yet again, I am not a sore winner. I voted for Johnson. This in no way precludes me from thinking Hillary supporters should take a long walk off a short pier though. The regressive left today is far, far worse than anything the right has going for it. Up to and including the bible thumpers and even the KKK.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Thursday December 01 2016, @06:41PM
I shouldn't say you raged out on people, I don't often see that level but I do see my points validated in your response here. There is plenty to dislike on both sides of the isle, but your approach to discussion is combative and rude. As shown here, being called out only makes you ratchet up. The mature thing to do would have been to call out the rage and address the actual points. I don't think you're about to let go of your stereotyping prejudice, and if you think Hillary supporters should drown themselves then you should equally apply that to Trump supporters. Anything less is hypocrisy pure and simple.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Thursday December 01 2016, @11:24PM
Dude...just foe him, apply a downmod to that, and move on. Soylent has PLENTY of settings to better control which comments you see. It's far easier than feeding the trolls in an attempt to train them ;)
(Score: 3, Touché) by rondon on Tuesday November 29 2016, @01:28PM
It was a joke, and it was kind of funny (not really funny, but I still cracked a bit of a grin).
I agree with TMB's political positions approximately 20% of the time, and I think that some of his positions are really, really wrongheaded - that doesn't mean that he can't crack jokes and be funny on occasion. In fact, for this joke, he might have even been making fun of his own tendency to blame "others" (in this case, millennials) for all of the worlds problems.
Jokes where you are poking fun at yourself are the best jokes! You should laugh!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by AssCork on Tuesday November 29 2016, @02:04PM
First, it's not a joke. Or funny.
I disagree. I found it hilarious, mainly because I was thinking the exact same thing. There's nothing wrong with a bit of levity in a technical discussion.
My god, man. Have you even read some of the Linux/BSD source code? The comments alone are priceless.
Here's a link [c2.com] to some gems (admittedly not Linux or *BSD specific, but still cute).
Just popped-out of a tight spot. Came out mostly clean, too.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DannyB on Monday November 28 2016, @04:37PM
> “They will lose in any court, I believe, if they fight this.”
Ah, but what if the developers can force the apartment owners into binding arbitration to ensure that the developers will win, or at least only suffer a token penalty.
Fighting for Truth, Justice and the Corporate way!
What a fuster cluck.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 4, Funny) by isostatic on Monday November 28 2016, @05:37PM
If these people bought without launching their own satelite based survey that's hardly the developer's fault. Caveat Emptor.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @04:49PM
Its a good thing the Honorable President Trump is going to make NASA point all the satellites away from Earth so we can stop hearing about stuff like this. If we don't know about it, it doesn't exist.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @05:26PM
It's leaning to the right because Cali had more votes for Hellary.
(Score: 2) by DECbot on Monday November 28 2016, @05:29PM
Finally! The search for extraterrestrial life will commence in earnest!
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday November 28 2016, @05:36PM
It's not just extraterrestrial life.
It's all kinds of satellites.
extraterrestrial weather.
extraterrestrial communications networks for things like credit card authorizations at extraterrestrial fuel pumps.
extraterrestrial live television.
extraterrestrial long distance phone calls. (ET take note)
All hail to the trump for saving us from knowledge of impending bad things!
Be happy. Keep shopping. Support your local friendly global mega corporations.
If you think a fertilized egg is a child but an immigrant child is not, please don't pretend your concerns are religious
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @06:27PM
It's ESA [esa.int], not NASA :-)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @06:32PM
See? Its already working!
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @05:02PM
It's a great start, but what about the rest of the city? When will it sink into the ground?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by VLM on Monday November 28 2016, @05:26PM
Its semi-insightful in that during the next earthquake those 58 floors might simply tip over and land on other buildings.
I mean, just because shoddy foundation piles snuck past inspection doesn't prove the rest of the building is not equally shoddily constructed.
Note that it was completed somewhat into the bubble burst, but regardless of exact completion date, its definitely bubble-era construction in general, which is legendary for low quality.
(Score: 2, Informative) by RS3 on Monday November 28 2016, @07:34PM
Reminds me of the oil cans in concrete beams building failure in Taiwan earlier this year: https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=16/02/09/0313229 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Interesting) by segwonk on Tuesday November 29 2016, @07:38AM
Can a (structural) engineer comment on this: they seem to have stanched the tilting of the Pisa Tower – can they do the same for this one?
As I understand it, they used slant drilling to introduce a series of holes in the ground under the "uphill" side of the leaning tower of Pisa, which caused it to stop tilting. The legend I heard is that they could have continued drilling more holes, and decreased the amount of tilt, but they didn't want to lose tourists by "fixing" it. Like I said, that may be a legend. Like they say in journalism, some things are too good to verify.
.......go til ya know.
(Score: 2) by Shimitar on Tuesday November 29 2016, @09:05AM
Well, actually, the Pisa tower started "leaning" during construction back then. To "fix" this, the original builders artificially "tilted" the tower during build, so it is impossible to "untilt" it now, since it would be counter-tilted!
And, yes, i beleive straightening it all the way would not be done even if possible, exactly for turistic concern.
Coding is an art. No, java is not coding. Yes, i am biased, i know, sorry if this bothers you.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday November 29 2016, @12:47PM
I've googled the tipping tower in CA and its pretty ugly, stereotypical, not going to be a tourist magnet. I think they're safe there if the engineers make it plumb again.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by bob_super on Monday November 28 2016, @07:30PM
The waterfront building is sinking because there is less water near the foundation.
Trump is a real estate developer, so he has a solution: Burn more coal, accelerate Global Warming and seas rise.
You may have seawater in the lobby, but the foundation no longer sinks.
(Score: 2) by bradley13 on Monday November 28 2016, @05:20PM
It's all well and good to blame the excavation next door - and it probably is aggravating the situation. However, having skimmed the linked articles, it seems that the building was sinking faster than expected before that excavation began. Moreover, it is sitting on bayside silt, and is built with a concrete frame instead of a steel frame - that saves costs, but makes the building massively heavier.
tl;dr: build a super-heavy building on silt, then look for someone to blame when it starts to sink.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @06:24PM
it is believed that the movements are connected to the supporting piles not firmly resting on bedrock.
That would do it. Especially if the pile is not big enough. Sounds like someone found a way to speed up the project. By not digging another few hundred feet.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday November 29 2016, @12:59AM
Was the massively heavy frame an earthquake endurance feature forced on them?
Also, standard practice in buildings is to drive piles to the point of refusal, which is said to be just as good as bed rock, (and in fact in some places bedrock is not reachable).
Of course in the bay area you always have a liquefaction issue, and point of refusal may be won't remain constant over time.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @05:39PM
Isn't this the water-front tower of condo? If so, fuck the rich bastards, all of them. :)
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday November 28 2016, @07:55PM
No, this is considerably in from the waterfront, and, if I've got the correct building, is build right beside the main freeway leading to the Bay Bridge. Whee! Whenever I've gone past it it has looked as if it were already falling. Guess that wasn't entirely a visual illusion.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Whoever on Monday November 28 2016, @10:28PM
Today's waterfront, yes. This tower is built in a place that was under water before they started reclaiming land by filling in the Bay.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday November 29 2016, @06:49PM
The gp was talking about "waterfront property", so today's waterfront is what was important. (OTOH, the upper floors might well have a "waterfront view", but not a vary aesthetic one from *my* point of view.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 29 2016, @12:27AM
Everyone with a lot of money is evil!
Everyone without any money is good!
Hooray, where's my Certificate For Graduation In Idiotic Platitude School!!!?
(Score: 3, Informative) by BsAtHome on Monday November 28 2016, @06:12PM
I knew they had little Italy there somewhere. I did not see little Pisa. Someone must have copied it.
Maybe the owners can send in the DMCA gurus to get an infringement settlement if direct compensation fails ;-)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @07:13PM
Considering Italy brought criminal charges against their scientists for not predicting an earthquake, I wouldn't put it past them to file DMCA infringement for copying the leaning tower of pizza.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Monday November 28 2016, @08:29PM
I doubt they have legal standing because the Leaning Tower of Pizza is a restaurant in Oakland, CA :)
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @08:28PM
Came here with the same idea. Change the name of the building to Pisa-West, set the area up as a tourist trap and it's all good...
Keep monitoring and when necessary inject suitable material under the slab to control the lean to a manageable amount. The engineers that monitor the original leaning tower should get the consulting job, with kickbacks to the city of Pisa for use of their name.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @08:05PM
If this especially heavy building pushes the ground down,
does this mean it is raising other buildings surrounding it?
If so, then the adjacent property owners may have a claim against these builders as well.
(Score: 2) by Entropy on Tuesday November 29 2016, @08:06AM
They should have built heavier buildings--Really they are to blame for this mess.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Zz9zZ on Monday November 28 2016, @08:11PM
I guess this site is going downhill, all articles with a decent comment volume seem to devolve into us vs. them bullshit. I've been disengaging more and more as it has become clear that there is a certain segment of the user base that brigades every article. This no doubt causes some glee for the more trollish among us, but if the trend continues then this site will just become another echo chamber.
Perhaps that is the point? Subversion of discussion by making the medium intolerable... It is like a twisted marketing strategy.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @08:34PM
This is offtopic. I was going to mod you as such. However, I am going to agree also. My visits here are shorter and shorter. Today is the first time I have been here in 3 days. Not much had changed either. My visits to the green site are also becoming shorter and shorter. The only reason I do not have a lower id number is because I do not always comment. By the time I wanted to it had been a few weeks.
Right now most discussions devolve into little more than shouting matches between two flavors of ice cream.
To anyone who reads this. Politics is easy to have an opinion on. We all have one. Just because someone does not exactly align to your world view is no reason to deride them or subject them to the mental abuse that is being throw around here and on the rest of the net.
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Monday November 28 2016, @08:41PM
I was going to have the subject be "Offtopic" but forgot to change it.
Arguments over politics are fine, hopefully people can avoid the simple ad hominem stuff.
My big gripe is that political opinions are leaking into nearly every story, opinionated garbage (ad hominem type stuff) gets modded insightful or informative, and then a big chunk of the discussion devolves into dealing with such low level stuff.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @09:48PM
This is offtopic. I was going to mod you as such.
You know what? Fuck you.
On the one hand, there is a meta discussion surrounding the topic at hand, but as it is tangential, it is offtopic? Really? I would have thought discussing vitamin C absorption would have been offtopic, but no, apparently how politics shapes views on a story, and why some are disenchanted by it is. I would say piss-poor modding is as much of a problem than any political bent. Have you read the guidelines for modding? What a tenuous claim.
On the other hand, since you agree, it is suddenly on topic, you hypocrite. You're no better than those you criticize really, just you are oblivious to your own political bent.
Fuck you. You are a major reason why discourse has become inflamed, you self-righteous lout. It isn't so much that people argue forcefully, but that they disagree with you.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Monday November 28 2016, @09:05PM
Perhaps your lamentation applies to a lot more than just Soylent news? I myself notice that the divide runs extremely deep, and through families as well. Good luck getting away from it. Up here in Northern California there aren't many Trump supporters brave enough to be one in public, but that doesn't matter. *Everything* now is about us vs. them, everything is colored by the election, and what Trump started (a nasty divide) isn't going to heal itself magically on Jan 20th. Every day goes past up here is one more day of an organizing drive, one more day of protests, one more day with boycotts, etc. Trump was a child that started a fire without even thinking about how to put it out, nor does he give any indication that he cares to unify *anyone* other than his business interests with calls to Argentina and the UK.
I too miss simple discussions about technology and our search for truth, occasionally disrupted by the politics of technology. This site decided to embrace a wider vision of our world, and to our great lamentations, that world is just full of hateful shit that infects everything with its black avaricious touch. If anything we were quite isolated in our tech only world.
Our country has died, and we're now entering the phase where the maggots squirm their way through what is left of the country and its resources. After their king anoints them of course. Nothing in the last 3 weeks has given Democrats and Progressives, and all good people basically, anything but apocalyptic visions of the future administration with a president so immature he needs to still attack people on Twitter. Seriously, he has better things to do and can't put on the big boy pants yet. That's objective, because despite labels, I'm not, nor have ever been, a member of any political party. That fuckwad still can't get off Twitter and he's now the fucking President elect attacking a group of thespians for singling out the VP elect. Unfortunately, we can't call out Trump as the legitimately mentally unbalanced and retarded sociopath that he is, because that can only be political right? None of his stupidity should be reviled on a bipartisan basis even though it in every practical manner destroyed the Republican party? Killing social security and medicare is that side prepping nukes and announcing their gleeful intention to fire them.
I'd say the best we could hope for is a crippling recession while we hang on till the next election. Although considering how corrupt both sides have proved to be, along with Russian involvement in our politics to this extent, fairly proves we have no reason to have hope in the processes that run our society. If anything, Soylent should take a cue from Hell's Kitchen and institute a "no politics unless you want your ass kicked" policy. That would make it easier for me to get along so that I don't have to hear the utterly vile crap spewed out of the mouths of some people here. Even then I doubt it. I'm not going to stay silent when some ignorant fuck attacks the Constitution, and I'm sure that ignorant fuck feels the same about me. How do we discuss things that have left us so profoundly divided as a country? Is everyone here *really* better than that?
Sadly, I don't think there is any way to put us back together again. We're "30 seconds from midnight" on that clock, the one that represents the final shattering of America. It's both sides too. I start things to be sure, but a lot of times I get there "after the party started" with vile comments about liberals tears coming from people too stupid to realize they're in the same boat with those liberals, and the reasons for the tears are shared. It's brigades from both sides. Vile monkeys on one side celebrating a hollow Pyrrhic victory, and a pissed-off demoralized and now militant other side determined to hold the line at all costs.
Our country has gone downhill, and you're noticing the fetid squalor that is our lives now
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Monday November 28 2016, @09:35PM
I agree with your post, and the divide sneaks up on us:
Nothing in the last 3 weeks has given Democrats and Progressives, and all good people basically
I guess its human nature, as you say both sides are worked up and we'll just have to see if it passes. It is up to each person to try and contain their inner troll and it would help if people ask more questions when their post is attacked. I had a heated argument going on and finally just asked the other person what the various points of disagreement are from their perspective. Turned out we didn't disagree as much as we thought.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 29 2016, @04:10AM
Imagine that all this comes from Trump trying to get a better deal for his TV reality, and never accepting to retreat once "running for president" started to roll. That is what Micheal Moore claims http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/trump-self-sabotage_b_11545026.html [huffingtonpost.com] and even with selfsabotaging, he got the job.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 29 2016, @04:23AM
I know it's hard for you to imagine, but there are people from other countries reading this site. I am one of those. Pardon my french, but I will shit over your sacred Constitution any day I please, at least as long as the politicians of your country assert that its protections only apply to your own people and everyone else is fair game to be shit all over anytime. While in extension of the former, asserting that the projection of force into all the rest of the world by means of diplomatic and economic pressure, military intervention, global surveillance and cloak-and-dagger operations including and up to ousting democratically elected leaders of sovereign foreign nations is not only justified, but the moral imperative of the exceptional people of the US of A.
But niceties aside: From where I am standing, Trump winning the US election is the best possible outcome. Why? Hillary's record from her time as a secretary of state shows quite clearly what direction the world would have taken with her in the oval office. Hint: it involves more bombs, drones, cloak and dagger and more surveillance. It involves more playing High Noon with Russia (which in itself convinces me that the lady is a psychopath).
Trump on the other hand, will keep your country busy. Maybe he will be the catalyst that forges a real, believable opposition, outside of your ridiculous fig-leaf two-party system. Regardless, he will keep your country too busy to go start fires everywhere else in the world for your own benefit.
I genuinely wish you all the best for the upcoming four years. If you are upset with Trump so much, go support a party that has neither a Donkey or an Elephant as a mascot. Maybe, finally, we in the rest of the world will see the promised CHANGE, HOPE, etc. Maybe Trump will even be a Nobel Peace Prize laureate (tee hee hee). How do you say? Good luck and godsppeed!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @09:18PM
Will become? For a range of topics, this site has been an echo chamber for quite a while. I stick around for the technical and science stories, and the fact that this place isn't covered in clickbait links. But woe be to those who question Our Lord and Savior Snowden's motives, or portray him in a less-than-saintful air, or those who comment that 99% of the police force are good, decent people, etc., etc., etc. The venom and scorn and downright nasty comments you'll get from the holier-than-thous who will cast aspersions upon your character and moral fiber all because you won't align yourself within their clearly marked black-and-white morality. If you were gay and on your way to the woman's clinic you'd get a friendlier treatment from the bible-thumpers than you get from the vocal friendlies around here.
For anyone whose knee-jerk reaction to a post is to call them a "shill", to you I say you need to emotionally grow up first before you should be allowed to participate in adult discussions.
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Monday November 28 2016, @09:53PM
I've made comments about most police being OK, along with many other liberal-ish users around here and have never been attacked for it. The problem is that we have to address actual problems, not hide or avoid them. When you have a contrary opinion you have to be careful not to ignore valid points. If all you say is Snowden is a traitor that should be in prison then you will get a lot of angry comments. He unveiled serious crimes being committed by the US gov, and you have to address that fact along with any condemnations of the man. If you defend police departments you have to realize that there are many problems that need to be addressed, and glossing over them will get people angry.
For everyone on here: when you get venom and scorn try and take a minute to understand why someone got so mad and think about whether your personal opinion might have some flaws. Are you ignoring legitimate problems? Perhaps the person is only referring to a narrow example and you shouldn't take it as a generalization such as "all police are evil". Make an effort to drop the us vs. them mentality, often the person on the other side of the internet is somewhere in between the polarized sides.
Shills are real and a lot of us worry about such propaganda machines. Sometimes people are shills for free, they've bought some propaganda and they freely defend it. If you're called out as a shill for something, just address it. I was called out as a shill for corporate news media, it made me laugh and I responded appropriately and added that media manipulation/censorship is evil. Apparently my point was similar to your "not all cops are bad" and you just have to realize that people can get worked up on an issue. Don't ramp the argument up with an emotional counter-reaction.
Manage your emotional reactions, otherwise you are easily played and your contributions are easily ignored.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 1) by jasperhw on Monday November 28 2016, @09:51PM
This * 1,000,000. If it's not overly politicized comments that have little or nothing to do with the story, it's dumb millennial bashing (I'm not one) that seemingly derails the discussion on every story.
I had massive hopes for this site when it launched, and IMO, the community has become more repetitive and less insightful than the green site.
The interesting thing with both is most of the garbage is being spewed out by extremely low UIDs.
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Monday November 28 2016, @10:11PM
I think that is an effect from how the site was founded. People were search of a place where they could talk freely, and the most unhappy users were the ones with unpopular opinions. The independent do-it-yourself attitude is often accompanied by a lack of compassion and understanding for folks who are not so easily able to bootstrap themselves.
It is a great example of how an echo chamber gets formed, gather a small group of very vocal like minded people and just spew the same viewpoints 24/7. Turn everything into an ad-hominem attack and generally make people you don't like as uncomfortable as possible. This would be fixed pretty quick if the lurkers would log in and add their support when the garbage is being dumped. I've hopped in to defend statements by some of the worst trolls on this site when they actually made a good point, but I'm having regrets since I have yet to see any of the more conservative base do the same.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Monday November 28 2016, @10:35PM
I suspect much of the problem is down to a single poster, who spews vile vitriol. I suspect that this poster is destroying Soylent News through his frequent rants, which can only serve to put off other posters.
I think that this poster's moderation history should be investigated, since his posts are frequently up-modded. I find it hard to believe that these up-mods are given by real readers of Soylent News. Perhaps he has some other accounts that are used only for the purpose of up-modding his rants?
You all know who I am discussing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28 2016, @10:57PM
Yup! I've wondered about that myself, the trend has been pretty visible recently. It could also simply be a brigade effect from the conservative base. The irony in using such tricks is pretty thick.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 29 2016, @02:01AM
1. Get rid of anonymous posting.
2. Allow only positive moderation.
3. Moderation is not anonymous.
(Score: 3, Touché) by martyb on Tuesday November 29 2016, @02:31AM
Irony: an anonymous comment suggesting the banning of anonymous comments.
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 2) by Username on Tuesday November 29 2016, @08:07AM
Just distribute the weight so it sinks straight down and raise up the doors. Who cares if it’s three feet shorter?