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Beth Mole at ArsTechnica has an article about the levels of belladonna in homeopathic teething products made by Hyland's:
After investigating reports that more than 400 babies were sickened and 10 died in connection with homeopathic teething products, the Food and Drug Administration confirmed Friday that it had indeed found elevated levels of the toxic substance, belladonna, in the products.
Belladonna, also known as deadly nightshade, was the prime suspect of the investigation from the beginning, which Ars reported about last fall. Nevertheless, the products' maker, Hyland's, would not agree to recall the products when it was notified of the FDA's conclusion, the agency reported
In a response to Ars, Hyland's has acknowledged that there are some inconsistencies in the amount of belladonna in its products, but the company said that it has not seen any evidence from the FDA indicating that the elevated levels were toxic or excessive. [...]The FDA said it had found inconsistent amounts of belladonna in Hyland's products. Some of the amounts were "far exceeding" what was intended.
[...] As before, the FDA is urging parents to avoid the homeopathic teething products and toss any already purchased. The FDA does not evaluate or approve the homeopathic products, which have no proven health benefit.
Also: Hylands FAQ about the discontinuation.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Wednesday February 01 2017, @07:32AM
I thought homeopathic medicine was supposed to be essentially, distilled water.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy [wikipedia.org]
That is to say, if there is any active ingredient in the end-product, they probably screwed up somewhere.
(Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Wednesday February 01 2017, @07:49AM
The actual expected concentrations:
Hyland’s Baby Nighttime Teething Tablets -- Belladonna 12X HPUS [hylands.com]
Hyland's Baby Teething Gel -- Belladonna 6X HPUS [hylands.com]
Again from the wiki:
...So it looks like the gel is supposed to have about 1 trillion molecules, while the tablet is supposed to have approximately one.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Wednesday February 01 2017, @07:57AM
oops wrong scale. (I used the C not X scale for my conclusion)
From the website:
Belladonna 6X HPUS (0.0000003% Alkaloids, calculated):
-> 1/3x10e-9 -> 1: 333 million
Belladonna 12X HPUS (0.0000000000003% alkaloids, calculated)
-> 1/3x10e-15 -> 1: 333 trillion
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 01 2017, @01:41PM
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Wednesday February 01 2017, @05:23PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday February 01 2017, @07:45PM
I bet the levels weren't so much inconsistent as the were individually adjusted to the levels of latent lycanthropy in the patients under consideration. That's why it had to be put back on the market -- the master lycanthrope is still on the loose.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 01 2017, @08:50PM
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday February 01 2017, @01:03PM
I'm pretty sure people might think twice about purchasing it if they called Belladonna by its other name, deadly nightshade. From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
And the first sentence under Toxicity:
I'm at a loss for words.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Wednesday February 01 2017, @05:24PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2) by dry on Thursday February 02 2017, @02:59AM
It can't be that bad, otherwise our wonderful governments would have illegalized it as they have other harmful herbs.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Thursday February 02 2017, @05:21AM
The article you linked has seven paragraphs enumerating uses for the plant, or extracts of it, in conventional medicine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropa_belladonna#Medicinal_uses [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 01 2017, @08:39AM
Homeopathy is always worse than placebo, because it is prescribed as a real thing.
I could have died as a kid due to being prescribed homeopathy, when what I actually needed was surgery.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by choose another one on Wednesday February 01 2017, @10:39AM
The whole point of a "placebo", at least in clinical trials, is that you don't actually know whether it is a placebo or the real thing. Homeopathy is therefore exactly the same as a placebo, and just as beneficial, also just as dangerous.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 02 2017, @06:55AM
I think the parent AC meant to say "placebo effect"; maybe something like: "Because homeopathy is prescribed as a real thing you don't get the benefit of placebo effect".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 03 2017, @03:31PM
No it's not the same. With homeopathy, you know you didn't get the real medicine.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by VLM on Wednesday February 01 2017, @02:28PM
they probably screwed up somewhere
When I took quantitative chemical analysis (admittedly a long time ago) if you're trying to make a liquid standard solution accurate to 3, 4, 5, or more figures it turns out that you have to mix stuff WAY the hell longer than people are used to from mere kitchen cooking or else samples of the "standard" taken from the top or bottom of vessel will be measurably different.
The prof had long stories about this but it was all hand waving and "I'm sure in the reactor module for ChemEng you'll learn all about CFD simulations and rules of thumb".
I remember part of the lab work which we were tested on involving heavy weirdness to make a standardized sodium hydroxide solution, which sucks, intentionally, so we'd learn a little something. Being alkaline it slowly dissolves the glass container which shows up in the deeper decimal places over time and also it sucked CO2 right out of the air lowering its concentration over time. What a PITA.
Then we had to analyze everyone elses standards and they did a giant grid both to grade us on how close we got to the 0.10000... Molarity goal and how screwed up our analysis was of everyone elses work. And the TA participated and basically kicked our butts by using more professional equipment (from memory he used a nitrogen bath to keep air away and redistilled his water under nitrogen, or maybe it was argon, whereas we used the distilled H2O tap, and he did something funky I don't remember to the glass, some kind of pre-rinse). From memory I did pretty well.
Anyway back on topic, big vat of pure water, add a drop of icky, don't mix well, separate the big vat into a bazillion little bottles, kitchen chefs or bartenders would be surprised how poorly chemicals mix compared to human scale experiences with food.
Its "easy" to F this up, is what I'm saying.
Of course being a scientific bastard AND a cheap bastard I know enough that I would be shipping pure distilled H2O and not even buying the toxic stuff to mix dilute, but I'm not a devout homeopath so ...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 01 2017, @03:13PM
Yep, that whole "so diluted there can't be anything left" argument you always hear is based on some really wrong and incorrect assumptions. So is the "water memory" explanation. It is amazing how easily pseudoscience takes over both sides of debates like this.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 01 2017, @03:40PM
There is nothing wrong with the argument. You're talking about incompetence in preparation, and that has nothing to do with "pseudoscience". For example, the FDA "arguments" for safety in food canning (time, temperature, and pH) are perfectly fine and sound arguments. They aren't "pseudoscience" if a canning facility can't carry them out to ensure it applies to all cans and batches.
The "so diluted" argument is a very compelling theoretical argument against the whole idea of homeopathy; the case for homeopathy only goes down from there if you're talking about not even being capable of ensuring you are diluting toxins down to the levels you say you need to for it to work.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 01 2017, @03:58PM
No, it is pseudoscience when in practice it is very difficult to perform the dilutions they claim. For decades the "skeptics" failed to actually check this and kept on with the same oversimplified theoretical objection to homeopathy's pseudo-scientific explanation. It is idiots on both sides.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 02 2017, @02:05AM
*cough*
The difficulty of a process doesn't define how scientific the process is. Did you think it was "easy" for the Manhattan project to achieve any of the steps involved in building fission bombs? Come on - anyone who reads this site can do better than that.