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The GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast, also known as the "Mother of All Bombs", has been dropped in Nangarhar Province, Afghanistan. It is the most powerful non-nuclear bomb in the U.S. arsenal.
The US military has dropped an enormous bomb in Afghanistan, according to four US military officials with direct knowledge of the mission. A GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast Bomb, nicknamed MOAB, was dropped at 7 p.m. local time Thursday, the sources said. [...] A MOAB is a 21,600-pound, GPS-guided munition that is America's most powerful non-nuclear bomb.
The bomb was dropped by an MC-130 aircraft, operated by Air Force Special Operations Command, according to the military sources. They said the target was an ISIS tunnel and cave complex as well as personnel in the Achin district of the Nangarhar province.
Gen. John Nicholson, Commander of U.S. Forces in Afghanistan, said in a statement. "This is the right munition to reduce these obstacles and maintain the momentum of our offensive against [ISIS]." The statement said U.S. forces took every precaution to avoid civilian casualties.
Also at Fox News. The bombing came days after the death of a Green Beret in the same province, but a defense official said the bombing was unrelated. Another official had this to say:
The MOAB had to be dropped out of the back of a U.S. Air Force C-130 cargo plane due to its massive size. "We kicked it out the back door," one U.S. official told Fox News.
Update: The Afghan defence ministry says that 36 ISIS fighters were killed by the strike.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @01:09PM (5 children)
From wiki:
Blast yield 11 tons TNT (46 GJ)
Comparable large weapons:
Several news organizations called it the largest conventional bomb ever used in anger,[4] but the 22,000-pound Grand Slam earthquake bombs dropped during World War II may have been even heavier.
The BLU-82B/C-130 weapon system, known under program "Commando Vault" and nicknamed "Daisy Cutter" in Vietnam and in Afghanistan for its ability to flatten a section of forest into a helicopter landing zone, is a 15,000-pound (6,800 kg) conventional bomb, delivered from either a C-130 or an MC-130 transport aircraft. Two hundred and twenty-five were constructed.[2] The BLU-82 was retired in 2008 and replaced with the more powerful MOAB.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by deadstick on Friday April 14 2017, @01:33PM (3 children)
That term has been around since WW1 to describe a bomb with a long detonator extension on the front so it goes off above ground level, for maximum surface devastation. I suppose "people mower" wouldn't have looked very good in the papers...
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anne Nonymous on Friday April 14 2017, @03:08PM (2 children)
"It's a bomb for killing people, not plants" says a guy named deadstick.
(Score: 2) by julian on Friday April 14 2017, @05:56PM (1 child)
It's an aviation term. [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by Anne Nonymous on Friday April 14 2017, @07:53PM
Well thank goodness it's not more personal [viagra.com] than that.
(Score: 1) by butthurt on Friday April 14 2017, @07:55PM
Someone revised that to say:
[...] the 22,000-pound Grand Slam earthquake bombs that were dropped during World War II had around the same weight, but were designed for penetration and carried less explosives.
There's no citation for that bit.
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday April 14 2017, @01:15PM (47 children)
I know it's a platitude, but that money could have helped school quite a few impoverished kids or something...
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @01:20PM
WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!1111
(Score: 4, Insightful) by jdavidb on Friday April 14 2017, @02:09PM
I know it's a platitude, but that money could have helped school quite a few impoverished kids or something...
Yes. I can think of lots of welfare programs I'd rather it go to, and I'm a laissez faire capitalist who doesn't believe in welfare.
In fact I'd rather they throw the money out of a truck or give it to some corrupt third world country's government or simply burn it.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @03:05PM (33 children)
It's easier for the terrorists to recruit you and many others if the US has just bombed your cousin's wedding and followed up by bombing his funeral. Whereas if the US stopped bombing your country 20 years ago, and instead switched to air-dropping local delicacies, smartphones (filled with counter-propaganda), and other gifts etc; you might be too busy eating nice stuff or playing mobile games to attend some stupid "religious talk".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @03:44PM (28 children)
Yeah, well apparently keeping the region screwed up WAS the plan... A lot of people will be going to hell for that.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bob_super on Friday April 14 2017, @04:56PM (27 children)
> A lot of people will be going to hell for that.
Isn't it nice that religion provides a convenient outlet to drain the resentment for those who get away with being horrible people ?
"My kids' school is crumbling and I can't afford to treat their cough, because all my taxes go the CEO of the company making bombs we throw at some random brown guys. Buy hey, when he's so old that even his platinum doctor can't revive him after his heart attack banging top models in his gold pool, he'll go to Hell! So he's the loser!"
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 14 2017, @05:23PM (24 children)
They *will* go to Hell, though. Now, the term "go to Hell" is a little bit of a misnomer, as Hell is more of a state than an actual place, but nevertheless, there they will go. And they will reincarnate, probably dozens or hundreds of times given their karmic load, in bad situations, perhaps on other worlds with intelligent life if this one no longer serves that purpose. All this stuff is being graded. I don't know anywhere near all the details, but I believe I know enough to say that everyone gets, to the precise last attosecond, precisely the amount of suffering they cause.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday April 14 2017, @05:32PM (15 children)
Or, as i believe, they simply cease to exist. There is nothing else.
Sooooo.... we need to TAKE REVENGE NOWWW!!!!
Revenge is a dish best served with the death of a thousand cuts/scraping the skin slowly from their bodies/slowly removing all the oxygen in their locked office (but don't let them die right away: remove oxygen, then put it back, then take away again... such fun!)
......
Does this mean i'm going to hell for thinking like this? Nah, i'll just die--
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 14 2017, @05:52PM (14 children)
I wish to fuck you were right, but my girlfriend's past- and between-life memories and some of the research I've done strongly point to there being...well, "afterlife" is the wrong word, if anything our earthly lives are the interregnum, but it's entirely just. There seems to be some sort of physical, unconscious law like gravity that leads to the emergence of something you could well call karma.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @06:47PM (8 children)
I look at how Science manages to converges on the truth.
I then look at the thousands of religions that have existed (with most of them now being extinct) and I observe how their dogmas DIVERGE in an ever-widening shamble of made-up nonsense.
I had religion figured out as a power-grabbing scam by the time I was 13.
...but it's clear that some folks need fantasies to cling to.
I'm not saying that the notion of karma is not very appealing, but the evidence is severely lacking.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Friday April 14 2017, @07:10PM (2 children)
What gave religion away as a scam?
I guess many other just get dronized.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Saturday April 15 2017, @07:37AM (1 child)
In my case, it was preachers demonstrating disobedience to the Bible, browbeating for tithes.
We were instructed to live by faith, and they of all people should adhere to their own advice.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Saturday April 15 2017, @12:04PM
System inconsistency...
Don't mind the man behind the curtain ;)
Almost like the government and taxes.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 14 2017, @07:15PM (2 children)
Oh, I'm with you on that. NO religion has it correct and the vast majority are somewhere between hilariously and horrifyingly wrong. I look at this as just another branch of science, because it seems to be conforming to a set of natural laws. We humans have a very bad habit of distancing and "othering" ourselves from the rest of nature and reality; it's a kind of ego-sickness.
As near as I can tell "God" isn't the best word to use here, but it's a kind of metaphor not unlike "Mother Nature," when what's being described is a sort of base-concept to matter, energy, and intelligence, the old philosophers' "ground of all being." I don't think it's conscious, certainly not as a personal, egoistic entity. Why couldn't there be a naturalistic "afterlife" anyway?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday April 14 2017, @08:06PM (1 child)
A mother nature given soul?
(I like the Phillipe Jose Farmer thing: (No, i'm not going to google the spelling, no i cant remember the name of the series... i'm old and tired, lol))
I just don't see it: i'll be dust returned to dust and i have no soul to be reborn.
I. got. one. shot.
Also, i think there should be a law that you can kill one person EVERY year, no consequences, so long as you register the fact that YOU (state your name) are going to kill HIM (state his name).
Once per year, no consequences.
Wouldn't the world be a better place without all the dead assholes who piss off EVERYONE!!
:)
Tired... rambling... need vodka.... sleep....
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 14 2017, @08:34PM
"To Your Shattered Bodies, Go." Notable for the fact that some NDE researcher appears to have fabricated or confabulated his own NDE from his memories of the book.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @09:17PM (1 child)
I found a somewhat different result: grew up without religion clubbing me over the head and was amazed to find some very common threads running through most religions. The problem with religion is it is based on belief so there is very little flexibility in updating the concepts. Science suffers the same way, however once you get evidence that your new concepts are better then there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. With religion the power structure keeps the status quo by burning the heretics.
Anyone who has a glimpse into spiritual aspects of life (prophets, etc.) probably have the same problem as someone trying to explain color to a blind person.
Yes religion is used as a massive tool of power and oppression. Ignoring other aspects is like judging the US Constitution by the screwed up crap we have today.
Perhaps there are just a bunch of crazy people who need to believe something, but there is a massive amount of anecdotal information that points to there being "something more". Maybe its a collective telepathic hive-mind which can lead to people getting memories from others, or maybe there is a spiritual dimension not contained in our physical reality. I can't say its all bunk, and I can't say any of it is 100% true, but after a long time of believing only in scientifically proven facts I realized the hubris of science and reason. They are still my guiding principles, but I try and keep a more open mind.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 16 2017, @02:09AM
With Anubi, religion seems to be in no small part a social thing.
He seems to have found a sect/congregation/community that gets it right.
Take away the mumbo-jumbo and you'd still have something worthwhile.
His bunch seems to have avoided/expunged the Sister Bertha Better-Than-You types. [google.com]
(With over 10 million people in Los Angeles County, you'd hope there would be 1 bunch that aren't simply about tribalism.)
Heh. Aaron Sorkin had a field day with this notion.
Dr. Jenna Jacobs [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [memoryhole.net]
...and comedian Emo Philips really kills it WRT the "can't reach consensus" thing. [theguardian.com]
I figure the Bible could be boiled down to 1 thing [google.com] and the rest could be tossed.
I find scripture to be wholly unimpressive. [google.com]
Basically, a book of fairy tales with a really bad editor.
The "slaves, obey your master" crap and the condoning of violence are particularly troubling in a "holy" book.
the Quran has only 532 cruel or violent passages, while the Bible has 1,321 [alternet.org]
In northern Europe, they have lower rates of religiosity and more functional democracies.
I think they have things figured out better.
...and there's some stats that say religious folks just aren't that bright. [google.com]
As for the deity thing, a guy had this figured out a long, long time ago:
.
a collective telepathic hive-mind
You should write books.
Make sure that the publisher understands that those are fiction.
We don't need another L. Ron Hubbard.
a massive amount of anecdotal information that points to there being "something more"
...only if you deny evolution and claim that all other creatures don't possess a "soul".
The notion of an afterlife is just wishful thinking and denial that you won't live forever.
If you don't want the memory of your existence to fade, produce children and raise them in a way that they will want to have children.
...or accomplish something that is really memorable.
Still, it's unlikely that many will know your name 1000 years from now (assuming that there is a sentient species left to even do that).
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15 2017, @12:25AM (2 children)
were there 7.5 billion souls 4000 years ágo?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 15 2017, @01:49AM (1 child)
No idea. I suspect this isn't confined to Earth, and would be very surprised if there weren't intelligent life elsewhere, as well as possibly some "promotion" to our type of soul from other sentients like whales or orangutans. I'm told you don't get "busted down" in that sense, i.e., the Buddhist idea of reincarnating as an animal simply does not happen.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15 2017, @02:00AM
I dunno, I would gladly opt to reincarnate as a whale or bird after the madness of being human...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15 2017, @01:24PM (1 child)
Wasn't it extremely lucky that her past life just so happened to be on the same planet as her current one. Not any of those other worlds with intelligent life you just mentioned.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 15 2017, @03:26PM
Yeah, wasn't it? I don't entirely understand this stuff either, not even close. For all I know, if there are other planets with intelligent life, maybe the beings on them have different sets of life lessons to learn. I'm getting all this secondhand and am not by any means an expert on any of this.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @07:46PM (1 child)
Hell is more of a state than an actual place
Are you talking about New Jersey?
(Score: 2) by rts008 on Friday April 14 2017, @08:07PM
In the past maybe, but for the past 20 years Oklahoma beats New Jersey for the title of Hell.
*disclaimer: And for my sins, I have lived in both.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @08:30PM (4 children)
It's an interesting image, that hell is like an oubliette, a place for souls you can forget about and then be smugly self-assured that they're getting what they "deserve." Or if you think that's too harsh, we can design this oubliette so that it has a time-lock mechanism that lets it vomit up souls once their "sentence" is served. 3 centuries early for good behavior? Paroled out as a starving girl in Africa? lol.
Why choose to be reincarnated at all?
There seems to be this idea that the spirit world is more real than this one. Or that if this world isn't a Just World, then the spirit world must be a Just World, because... or the combination of the two adds up to a Just World, because...
Because it has to? Or... what? Because... why?
What would that mean if even the spirit world weren't a Just World?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 14 2017, @09:26PM (3 children)
As far as I can tell, and this is mostly extrapolation based on what little I *think* I know, the terms "life" and "afterlife" aren't very useful; rather, it's ALL "life" but through a series of different states, *ideally* ever more rarefied until we merge with "God" again. There's a lot of distractions, and most of us seem to be ruled by the ego to the point that we don't learn enough to break free and sometimes need to reincarnate, though I'm told most unlearned lessons can be learned the rest of the way in the "afterlife."
Exceptions are things like most murderers, rapists, etc., or people who've made a conscious decision to place "idols" like money or a given ideology above fellow humans; in many cases, the only way around that is to be forced to endure the logical endpoint of a lifestyle like that the next time around, i.e., hardcore Randroids who hurt people with their actions might come back in the third world as poor farmers. I am told this is voluntary in that most of the time, on reflection, people decide that they *have* to do it this way to "get it" faster, in much the same way reading about building a computer isn't the same thing as having the experience of building one.
The contents of our minds and our beliefs and our past actions are very important, as the "spirit" world seems to be much less physical and much more mental than this one. It's impossible to fool ourselves there the way we can here; we are aware of everything we ever did for better or worse, no excuses. So it's not too surprising that, say, a spree killer getting hit with all the pain he caused other people, when his "body" is largely thought or thought-like itself, would think he was being tortured. "Hell" manifests the way peoples' cultures make them think it does; it's their minds trying to make sense of the pain they're getting returned to them through whatever cultural background they have. This is why my girlfriend "went to one of the Buddhist Hells" last time, for example, as she was some kind of Buddhist in her last life. She even "met Enma Daiou," who does not actually exist; it was a manifestation of her own conscience judging her, and she remembers him sounding like an angry, male, incredibly huge version of her.
Does any of this make sense? It looks like complete batshit insanity even as I type it. All I can boil it down to is there seems to be some kind of "every deed produces an equal and opposite karma" law in effect, entirely naturalistic, and we seem to be here on some kind of journey from, and now back to, the "Source" of it all.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Informative) by TheGratefulNet on Saturday April 15 2017, @12:30AM (2 children)
pure fantasy.
the only reason we think there is more than what we see is that we are so filled with ego, we think we are just THAT important.
we are not.
nothing matters. in the long run. and no one cares, in the long run.
yes, its harsh. but I'd rather have truth than 'comfort' in lies that we tell ourselves.
why WOULD there be any rhyme or reason or even justice to this universe? I see absolutely no evidence of anything 'planned'. no planner, no reasons.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 15 2017, @01:46AM
I wish I could believe that! It sounds counterintuitive, but that would be far more comforting to me than what I do believe. I'm so tired of it all, so existentially tired.
Really, pretty much any idea other than "death is the end of your consciousness" is horrifying. Infinitely horrifying if your consciousness stays more or less as it is forever. I find the idea of annihilation on the death of the physical body comforting, and wish it were true, but think I've seen too much evidence against it.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15 2017, @02:06AM
Heh, show me your proof.
I think you're just being reactionary against the typical theistic view of "God / Allah / Yahweh / Flying Spaghetti Monster". You have no rationale, just a belief. What if your "truth" is a lie you tell yourself so that you can be complacent. Or the "nothing matters" lets the horrors of humanity slide by more easily?
I don't hold to an almighty Planner either, but don't let your reason get ahead of itself.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Friday April 14 2017, @08:55PM
Hell is more of a state than an actual place
Florida?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @05:25PM (1 child)
Religion is the opiate of the masses after all.
Except the occasional time when it is the meth of the masses.
(Score: 4, Touché) by julian on Friday April 14 2017, @05:42PM
For most of rural America, Appalachia, opiates are the opium of the masses.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @07:44PM (2 children)
Whatever happened to all that big talk about "hearts and minds"?
I used to some work for an Iraqi surgeon. Lovely bloke, used to cook the kind of food he made in Iraq and bring it in for the office; no idea about his surgical skills but he worked out his contract so they must have been fine.
AFAIK, his visa/work permit was basically a consolation prize after the coalition killed something like 10 members of his family by dropping a bomb in the wrong place during the campaign in Iraq. How the fuck he could still function as a human being, never mind as a surgeon, after going through that is beyond me. If our places were reversed I don't think I'd have stopped screaming yet.
(Score: 2) by rts008 on Friday April 14 2017, @08:21PM (1 child)
Well, he had the 'opportunity' to build up mental/emotional callouses living under Saddam's rule in preparation for the trauma.
Lucky for us, we too can hope to get similar callouses under the Orange Clown's rule. ;-)
Sarcasm aside, some folks are more resilient than others. I do hope he found some semblance of dealing with that horror and insanity with a little peace and happiness after that. I don't really think I would have 'stopped screaming' yet either, or could deal with it gracefully.(and we wonder where all these 'terrorists' come from!)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15 2017, @07:34AM
Humans are incredibly resilient.
Read any of the very good books on contemporary refugees in that area to understand.
(Score: 2) by ese002 on Saturday April 15 2017, @07:28AM
I dunno about it being a platitude. I've long wondered if the US might have got better results if they had spent the same amount of money and resources on giving education and other goodies to the Afghans instead of bombing them.
While I agree that too much is spent on killing and not enough of education, what you are suggesting is actually more difficult and expensive than you may think. Providing education is very cost effective and just plain effective when the populace is willing and secure. When much of the population is suspicious of Western education and small but active subset is willing to use violence against schools, teachers, and students. it becomes nearly intractable. Have to you heard of Boko Haram? It is a an Islamist terrorist organization in Nigeria founded on the principle of opposing Western education.
You really can't choose between bullets and education. Without bullets, you can't provide security and without security, you can't effectively provide education. Of course, the more killing, the more suspicious the population, which undermines education. Without education, the cycle never ends.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Friday April 14 2017, @03:38PM (1 child)
And if they had invested that money into such projects in Afghanistan, maybe it would even have been more effective against the terrorists than this bomb.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday April 14 2017, @11:32PM
The most effective answer to the Islamic question is extermination.
We have offered them everything including refuge from the very hell they have created, and are now turning that refuge into a hell. Indiscriminate bombing of their homelands is the answer.
Somebody posted above, what if we invested the MOAB money in American schools? Well, it is a more sound investment to drop a MOAB on a Muslim school than to donate to a Western school, because Muslims are an invasive species -- and should be dealt-with accordingly.
Let the culling begin!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DannyB on Friday April 14 2017, @04:10PM
A much better "or something" use of that $16 million would be to fund more than five presidential weekend luxury golf trips.
Young people won't believe you if you say you used to get Netflix by US Postal Mail.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @06:27PM
why buy lunch for a bunch of needy kids when you can wipe their families that didn't immigrate, off the map for just slightly more?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @11:09PM (6 children)
I'm a libertarian and I believe that most of the time the US should leave other countries alone. But I think maybe military action against Daesh (ISIS) is appropriate, since the USA helped create Daesh. The actions of the USA created a power vacuum in Iraq and then we did the worst possible thing: pulled out support troops before Iraq's own military was ready. Heck, we even announced the date upon which Iraq would be unable to defend itself, just to help Daesh make their plans. (I believe that history will record this as the single worst mistake ever made by President Obama.)
Remember, Daesh is the group that slaughters people they don't like (throwing gay people off of buildings, burning people alive, having children train as warriors by cutting the heads off of captives, etc.) If the $16 million spent on degrading ISIS's military might ultimately leads to saving lives (preventing future victims of Daesh from dying), it was a defensible expenditure.
The only way to stop Daesh from killing is to destroy the organization. The organization is made of people and assets, and you destroy it by killing people and destroying the assets. The bomb did both. It would be great if the power of love could convince Daesh to become peaceful, but they don't want our love and they don't want to be peaceful.
I hope in the future the USA can avoid creating messes we will then be obligated to clean up. Nation-building in Iraq was a mistake, pulling out early was another mistake. But I'm not convinced this use of the MOAB was a mistake. It seems like an appropriate way to defang a minefield and collapse a tunnel complex, without any of our soldiers getting killed or having limbs blown off. It's easy for us to criticize and say "well that was $16 million wasted" but we might feel differently if we were facing death or maiming.
P.S. I take no pleasure in contemplating the death inflicted by war. I truly wish everyone would just leave everyone else alone.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15 2017, @12:49AM (1 child)
And it pales in comparison to Coalition Provisional Authority Order 2. That was the moment that ended any hopes for Iraqi stability. Way back in 2003. Announcing the withdrawal date was just a minor convenience for Daesh.
No, President Obama's biggest mistake, in his own words, was the intervention in Libya that left a power vacuum in that country. Clinton was one of the advocates of military action in Libya.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15 2017, @07:37AM
More like Bush and company. The instability they forced into the area is why it's a shitmess now. They literally removed every person with post-secondary education from an official position. How many do you think that left? How many of those were competent?
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Saturday April 15 2017, @12:51AM (3 children)
for as long as the middle eastern muslim leaders use their religion to convince their people to hate the west, we cannot live in peace with them.
bombs won't fix that shit.
and helping them, so to speak, also won't work.
THEY HAVE TO CHANGE THEMSELVES.
and no ruler in that region wants to give up that inertia of hating 'the infidel'. its basically ALL they have to unite them, and even that does not really unite them.
there's no solution, at least none from our side. its hard to take that truth, but its the truth.
we're stuck with this crap until they get over their 'one religion for all the world'. and I don't see that happening in our lifetimes.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15 2017, @02:10AM (1 child)
Oh look, a Westerner who really doesn't know much about the Middle East is making broad sweeping pronouncements. You know there IS a reason why most Muslim violence is against other Muslims right? Specifically because many Muslims don't hold to the "one religion" crap and would prefer social progress instead of the extreme fundamentalist crap that has been foisted on them. Gee, I wonder how the fundamentalists came to power. If only SOME history book explaiiinnnned it.... or do you not care about who is responsible for screwing up the region?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday April 15 2017, @05:38AM
I care but I don't know exactly who.
Maybe... Ethanol-fuelled?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by dry on Saturday April 15 2017, @03:20AM
I think you've got it backwards, it seems that the west, especially America, is using propaganda to convince their people to hate the Muslims. Look at Ethanol Fueled's comments along with various other users comments, pure hatred with no understanding that they're people much like us, or at least how we would be if some foreigners kept bombing us.
The biggest crazy is America expecting to be thanked for bombing them into "freedom" and their inability to put themselves in others place.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @01:24PM (26 children)
Not much bang for the buck, know what I mean? I mean, these are sand people—it just makes the US military look cartoonish.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @01:34PM (2 children)
Not much bang for the buck, know what I mean? I mean, these are sand people—it just makes the US military look cartoonish.
But, But, TERRISTS!, man, TERRISTS!, the US gone bagged itself some TERRISTS!... $16million(+operational costs)'s a small price to pay for baggin' some TERRISTS!!
get with the program.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @01:48PM (1 child)
I'm a Monster Hunter [wikipedia.org] player, so I can understand investing a great deal in equipment and supplies to bag a monster.
What kind of carves do you get off of TERRISTSǃ? (Note: I'm using U+01C3 to indicate a postalveolar click, which I assume is part of this creature's name.) What kind of buffs does TERRISTǃ gear give you?
It must be some pretty epic gear....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @01:55PM
It must be some pretty epic gear....
Must be, if it takes something short of a nuclear weapon to wipe out 36 of the buggers....
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday April 14 2017, @01:34PM (9 children)
S'what I said, then the roomie informed me they were in a tunnel network. Still too expensive for the headcount by my reckoning but at least they had a semi-logical reason.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday April 14 2017, @02:50PM (8 children)
Wouldn't that make an airburst bomb rather ineffective? It is after all designed specifically NOT to direct its energy into the ground, inorder to destroy above-ground structures more effectively.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday April 14 2017, @02:59PM (3 children)
You'd think so, wouldn't you? I dunno, maybe they were going for kills with the sheer power of the shockwave rather than by collapsing the bunker.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by bob_super on Friday April 14 2017, @05:20PM (1 child)
Shockwave, temperature rise, but also asphyxiation from the bomb displacing all the surrounding oxygen and replacing it with anoxic/toxic smoke.
If you survive the physical blast and burn, you just faint and die.
Tunnels are not your friend against this kind of bomb.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday April 15 2017, @12:22PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday April 14 2017, @11:34PM
I think this and the firing of the Tomahawks is for show and/or to practice larger attacks against the next WWIII villian, whatever that may be.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @03:02PM (1 child)
It's the pressure wave that enters the tunnels, blowing apart anything in its way. Like a sonic boom but right next to the ground instead of a mile high. At one of the LDRS rocket launch events, a rocket did a 180 and hit the ground at mach 1+. The sonic boom liquefied the ground for a few minutes before turning solid again. It took a borrowed backhoe to dig it out.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @03:42PM
Large Dangerous Rocket Ships? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripoli_Rocketry_Association [wikipedia.org] ?
(Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Friday April 14 2017, @06:37PM (1 child)
For a thermobaric device this actually is a good - and nasty - use.
Thermobaric devices kill you in one of two ways - either the shockwaves (yes, in confined spaces that is plural) or by drastically lowering the pressure around you.
So, first it will try to pulp you, the it will try to suck the air and liquids out of you (lungs bursting if you're lucky, if you're unluckly you'll end up deaf and blind), and if detonated in a non-open area it will pulse those a few times for 10 to 50ms. And to add insult to injury you'll probably end up breathing in superheated and toxic unburnt fuel.
Then you have to look forward to if something collapses on you or if the ground liquefies.
Oh yeah, and if you are in a tunnel that didn't collapse you also will have to look forward to being hit by scorching debris and superheated air from the direction of the blast, and cool stormspeed gravel and anything you didn't secure from the other side.
If it was less good at killing you fast it would have had a good case for being outlawed due to being too cruel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15 2017, @03:38AM
They're disgusting for using these things, and they're disgusting for giving a reason to use them.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Alphatool on Friday April 14 2017, @01:47PM (3 children)
It's cheaper than bringing them back to the US to execute them, less than half a million per head isn't bad compared with domestic costs [deathpenaltyinfo.org]. You know outsourcing has spiraled out of control when even the executions move overseas to reduce costs!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @06:23PM (2 children)
This new "normal" stinks on ice.
The fact that it is readily accepted by Joe Average is shameful.
That it is happening in a self-described Democratic and Christian nation makes it further deplorable.
You have skipped over a step in the process.
Notice that it does not say "no US citizen".
It does not say "no person within the USA".
It says "NO PERSON".
The US Constitution also says that the Congress alone has the power to declare war.
That last happened on December 8, 1941.
All military engagements by USA.mil since the end of those hostilities on September 2, 1945 have been unconstitutional aggression.
USA has clearly become a rogue nation, not even abiding by its own founding documents.
Look around you at the dilapidated infrastructure and the abused natural environment and the ever-poorer proletariat.
This is what an empire in decline looks like.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by rts008 on Friday April 14 2017, @08:42PM (1 child)
Well, the 'Democratic and Christian' points are debatable[1], but I fully get your point and intent.
Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly.
[1] democracy has almost completely been replaced with oligarchy, and as for the 'christian' aspect....HAHAAHAHAHA/ROFLCopter! The more they proclaim 'christian/christian values', the more heretic they become. Some of them are in a tizzy about 'Sharia Law'...those are the Christian Taliban, wanting to impose their distorted version of christian laws unto us all.
As an offtopic aside, the founding fathers were mostly NOT christian...most were atheists, or deists. The actual christians were a small minority. And the whole concept of a secular gov't., freedom of religian(which implies an equal freedom from religion to keep it from being a theocracy, etc...)
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday April 15 2017, @01:32PM
So arguments should begin "the founding fathers were mostly christians who believed that [stuff you'd expect only very enlightened christians or non-theists to believe]." rather than "the founding fathers were mostly atheists ...".
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 5, Funny) by Oakenshield on Friday April 14 2017, @03:01PM
Sand People are easily startled, but they will soon be back, and in greater numbers.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday April 14 2017, @05:36PM
but it would ALSO make THEM look cartoonish: the heat from the bomb will turn those sand people into glass people, and all the local kids will throw stones at them or use them as candle holders or book ends.
If i was them, just before the bomb hit, i'd go into the 'weeping angel' stance and scare the bejeezuz out of those kids.
DON'T. BLINK! KID!!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Friday April 14 2017, @08:26PM (6 children)
You're looking at this from our point of view, not theirs.
This doesn't send the message "lol the US are such irresponsible spenders xD"
It sends the message, "I don't care who you are, where you are, or how many or few of your friends you have with you; we are going to completely obliterate you all if you keep fucking around."
Or, more simply, "There's a new sheriff in town."
(Score: 2) by rts008 on Friday April 14 2017, @09:06PM (2 children)
Or, more likely, "Why can't those assholes let us decide things on our own? Maybe they need a dose of their own medicine! *sigh* I guess the Cheeto-in-Charge needs another black eye-send the Freedom Fighters to strike terror! We have more fighters than he has money! New recruits come in all the time, after their families have been bombed indiscriminately."
You right-wing types, cowering in fear of 'the others' would be laughably pathetic, if you did not have(for now, but what about the near future?) destructive power available to pick on people with lesser power. Reality(and the world) has a Progressive bias(otherwise we would still sleep in caves and trees, clubbing our food, as right-wing conservatives). Your days(and numbers) are numbered, at least most of us can take some consolation from that.
In the near future, you and your ilk will be a footnote in the history books.
Enjoy your safeplace for now, special snowflake, progress is coming for you all, maybe at glacial speed, but as forceful as that same glacier. :-)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15 2017, @03:41AM
s/t
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Saturday April 15 2017, @09:31AM
"You right-wing types, cowering in fear of 'the others' would be laughably pathetic, if you did not have(for now, but what about the near future?) destructive power available to pick on people with lesser power. "
You're a real funny one. "You'd be so pathetic if you couldn't kick everyone's asses!" I agree! We would be pathetic if we couldn't kick anyones asses.
So let me break it down real simple for you:
Can't kick anyone's asses = pathetic.
And guess what, "In the near future, you and your ilk will be a footnote in the history books."
Saying stuff like this means you can't kick anyone's asses!
"progress is coming for you all, maybe at glacial speed, but as forceful as that same glacier. :-)"
You can't advance faster than we can melt that glacier. I am genuinely entertained at how passive and effeminate this post was. Thank you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @09:22PM
Disgusting. You cowardly ignorant fool.
These are the tactics of a brutish savage empire, not some romanticized town of the old west.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday April 15 2017, @02:00PM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Sunday April 16 2017, @05:42PM
It's a very heavily publicized part of Trump's "deal-making" strategy to go in guns blazing, set an extreme demand, then make it seem like compromise to make a deal split 60/40. If you believe that the business of capitalism is a very friendly endeavor where you are surrounded by nothing but extremely rich friends who want the best for you and your profits, then I'm not sure what to say to you. From my understanding, it is all back-stabbing, market manipulating, brown-nosing, and politicking - it's just that they have to be shrewd about it because it's their own money on the line, not just the taxpayers'. Think street gang vs. private school clique.
So AFAIK, politics, as business, is simply "Dealing with people and money" and if that's case, there could be some advantages to this strategy. I would wager Trump knows "people" better than you give him credit for, but you also must acknowledge that certainly, the US is much more divided than it was when Obama took office, there are many more severe threats to Western Civilization than there were when Obama took office, and so it might not be best to focus on "Making nice with everyone" and continuing to put their interests first, but might actually be best to start carrying the massive fucking stick that we have earned over the past 200 years, and start taking practice swings for everyone to see.
But you're right, maybe if we play nice-nice, everything will work out just fine and everyone will love us. After all, we've spent our whole lives around civilized people - why shouldn't everyone else in the world also be civilized?
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/08/muslim-asylum-seeker-beheads-ikea-shopper-in-sweden/ [thegatewaypundit.com]
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Friday April 14 2017, @02:00PM (26 children)
In all seriousness, why did they not use a large number of smaller bombs? Cost effectiveness? Efficiency?
Also, it sounds like it got the job done? Is this not correct? I'd assume if it had taken out anything unintended the media would be all over that.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday April 14 2017, @02:07PM (5 children)
Word I heard is they were in a tunnel network that smaller bombs wouldn't have necessarily collapsed.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday April 14 2017, @05:21PM (4 children)
But if they were in a tunnel network, why didn't they use a "bunker buster"? Something is seriously wrong here, even if I don't know exactly what.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday April 14 2017, @05:38PM (1 child)
Because: 'small dick, big truck'
Because: 'small hands, big bomb'.
Same idea.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Friday April 14 2017, @05:48PM
I always thought George Carlin had it right a long time ago:
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday April 14 2017, @11:04PM
Dunno. Likely because bunker busters didn't work for shit in Afghanistan.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Saturday April 15 2017, @02:06PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Sulla on Friday April 14 2017, @02:20PM (15 children)
Our bunker busting bombs ended up being a bust in Iraq. If this bomb worked to crush an ISIS tunnel network it might make NK less sure about how save their bunkers are for top brass.
Plus Bush bought 15 and we have been paying to store and maintain since he was president. We have used one, successfully? NK knows the other 14 have their name on it if things get worse.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @02:48PM
Our bunker busting bombs ended up being a bust in Iraq..
Oh, maybe that was because one of your erstwhile allies in that adventure had been helping the Iraqis to develop hardened bunkers in the intervening years betwixt GulfWar I, and GulfWar II..ooopsie!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @03:13PM (1 child)
I hope they don't keep the powder in them while in storage. It's both dangerous and subject to degradation.
(Score: 2) by rts008 on Friday April 14 2017, @11:07PM
"Keep yer powder dry, and shoot 'em in the eye!"
Confess, you are a time traveler from the distant past!
You sirrah, have been hoist with your own petard, by your own words.
Powder...surely you jest.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @03:22PM
..it might make NK less sure about how save their bunkers are for top brass.
I seem to remember something about NK bunkers and hardened Nuclear sites under mountains (think: Cheyenne Mountain), short of lobbing f.tons of Nukes at them, I don't think they'll worry. You've got to remember that they've been expecting a US Nuclear strike for decades, this thing is a toy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @03:53PM (10 children)
Its always amusing when conservative military die-hards make predictions like yours. "They'd better watch out, ol' John 'US' Wayne will drop some MOAB on those rotten scoundrels!"
The US rode on the laurels of WW2 for a long time, but the rich and powerful have neutered their own country and finally the world is seeing the full extent of the lies. All the tough talk, the world policing, everyone now realizes we're full of shit. Even US citizens are waking up to this fact, and god help the politicians when the conservative base finally wakes up... I'm hopeful that a conservative awakening just might rekindle the old desire for freedom and equality.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Friday April 14 2017, @04:51PM (7 children)
Didn't the conservative base just awaken in the last election?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday April 14 2017, @05:25PM
It got agitated, but it sure didn't wake up. If it had it would never have believed the blatant lies. Or the candidate who had publicly admitted that lying to they powerless was what he considered only good business.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @05:30PM (3 children)
Conservatives neutered themselves by devolving into nothing more than arbitrary anti-leftism.
They no longer stand for anything beyond opposition to another tribe.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Thexalon on Friday April 14 2017, @05:50PM (2 children)
Conveniently, the Democrats neutered themselves by devolving into nothing more than arbitrary anti-rightism. They no longer stand for anything beyond opposition to another tribe.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 14 2017, @06:34PM (1 child)
(a) Your parallel construction fails by substituting "democrats" for liberals and/or progressives.
(b) If you think that you haven't been paying attention.
The democratic party supports green power, the right to healthcare and the rights of minorities, just for starters.
They aren't perfect, but they are definitely defined by what they are for.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday April 15 2017, @02:33PM
Not that old chestnut. The democratic party, and the republicans before them - Romney, who was behind most of ObamaCare - supported obliging people to give money to insurance companies such that medical bills would be covered. A *compeletely* different thing.
> The democratic party supports ... the rights of minorities
Nah, the democratic party wants those niggers voting Democratic for 200 years, even if it was never worded exactly that way.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by dry on Saturday April 15 2017, @03:34AM (1 child)
Did you see who they elected last election to clean up Washington?
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Saturday April 15 2017, @03:45AM
Who should they have voted for instead? someone that had a foundation and run foreign and other policies according to a pay-for-play scheme?
The choice in these kind of matters rarely about god vs bad and done choices.
(Score: 2) by Sulla on Friday April 14 2017, @07:55PM (1 child)
I tend to think this was less of a "ha this will show them they will get scared and back down" and more of a "Oh god we need to find something that might make them less bold" grasping at straws.
You can see the desperation in that China is trying to get NK to back down at an accelerated rate.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 15 2017, @02:13AM
NK is good as a foil, but China sure as hell doesn't want their cash cow (US) to start a costly war in the region. They also probably realize NK could very really start WW3 out of petulance, maybe we should support a Chinese takeover of NK? Let the glorious leader go work in a rehabilitation camp raising pigs!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by DannyB on Friday April 14 2017, @04:13PM
In all seriousness, because the president wants to try out all the cool new toys. A single big boom is much more fun that a bunch of small bombs. And he already tried a bunch of smaller booms. Now that he's tried the biggest of the conventional weapons, it is time to move up. Seriously. I kid you not.
I'm sure he got to see any classified footage which might exist of that big explosion.
Young people won't believe you if you say you used to get Netflix by US Postal Mail.
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Friday April 14 2017, @08:30PM
It wasn't because of grenades or firecrackers.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by rts008 on Friday April 14 2017, @10:13PM
Without a BDA(Bomb Damage Assessment), we don't truly know if 'it got the job done' yet. I figure we will hear more in the very near future, but the bottom line is: we have to get someone to investigate the aftereffects at the location, or it's just speculation.
The reason we used this is twofold:
1] We never used it before, only in testing. We want to know what our ROI is, and how it works in 'the real world', and what other uses we can adapt it to. What can it do in actual combat conditions?
*We get to play with the new shiny, after just looking at it, and polishing it for 15 years! And Biggest Cheeto said to bomb the shit out of them anyway!*
1a] Theoretically, this should do the job...see #1 above...
2] For the target, lots of smaller bombs would be ineffective against the tunnel complex and bunkers targeted.
2a] The Cheeto-in-Charge actually wanted a nuke, but cooler heads prevailed, and he gets the next best thing to an actual nuke.(personal speculation, but plausible given his campaign statements regarding nukes)
Seriously, look at GBU-43 on wikipedia for details, and there are lots of youtube vids as well.
I personally am way TOO familiar with the BLU-82 'Daisy Cutter', and could imagine the skidmarks on undershorts this one caused in the 'near'[1] vicinity. Think 'brown noise' on a wide area outside the overpressure mortality zone. "The world is ending! I just filled my underpants! The end is nigh! OMG!!!WTF!!!Earthquake?!?!" All were common reactions when BLU-82's were dropped 'nearby'. It was most unpleasant, at the least. Even knowing it was coming,well, it made little difference. The physics, and physical effects of a serious overpressure wave, are not to be taken lightly, especially on the receiving end.
[1] YMMV with this type of weapon. Thermobaric weapons are known to be variable with effects, with a multitude of affecting factors. Terrain, altitude above sea level, barometric pressure at target location, etc...
I have heard in the reporting of this event by the media, as various blast radius specifications for the MOAB, anywhere from 300m, to one mile.(see note about BDA above, keeping in mind the 'YMMV' note also))
(Score: 2) by dry on Saturday April 15 2017, @03:29AM
America learned the dangers of a free media back in the '60's-'70's and have had them under a firm leash ever since. Compare the coverage of any recent war to Vietnam.