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Devuan just released their LTS stable Jessie system:
Devuan GNU+Linux is a fork of Debian without systemd. The latest 1.0.0 Jessie release (LTS) marks an important milestone towards the sustainability and the continuation of Devuan as a universal base distribution. Since the Exodus declaration in 2014, infrastructure has been put in place to support Devuan's mission to offer users control over their system. Devuan Jessie provides continuity as a safe upgrade path from Debian 7 (Wheezy) and a flawless switch from Debian 8 (Jessie) that ensures the right to Init Freedom and avoids entanglement.
And if getting it has to be a secret, check out http://devuanzuwu3xoqwp.onion
-- hendrik
[See also the Devuan 1.0.0 stable release (LTS) announcement for more information on how to install/upgrade, the support services that are available (bug tracking/reporting, user forums, etc.) --martyb]
(Score: 5, Informative) by FatPhil on Friday May 26 2017, @07:44AM (11 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 26 2017, @08:34AM (6 children)
Hopefully soon we will see ubuntean, mintean, etc as the good user distros based on debian are ported across.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by MadTinfoilHatter on Friday May 26 2017, @09:06AM (4 children)
As nice as that would be, I doubt it will happen any time soon. Those distros (especially Mint) are too focused on Linux on the desktop - and desktop users tend to simply not care about the init system used. Ubuntu has been making inroads into the server market, but IMHO Shuttleworth has never quite been able to grasp what the community actually wants. If he had, he would have noticed the golden opportunity of eating Red Hat's lunch back in 2014 by becoming "Devuan". I.e. by being the single mainstream distribution unpolluted by systemd. He missed the opportunity, because he didn't get it. I'm not sure whether I blame him for that, because it seems most people didn't, and many still don't.
The "VUA"-part of Devuan, comes from "Veteran Unix Admins", and that's not a coincidence. While almost everyone else have either not understood what the fuzz was all about, or just not cared, in my experience system administrators have almost unanimously grabbed their pitchforks and torches when faced with systemd.
TL;DR: The mainstream distros are either too focused on making money, or too focused on (desktop) user experience to care about this*. The closest thing to a mainstream distro sans systemd that you're likely to see for a long time is Devuan. If you're planning to rid yourself of systemd, there is no point in waiting for anyone else.
*) Or if they care, they care in a perverted way - they see the depencency hell created by systemd as a way to stifle freedom, reduce choice, and ultimately squeeze more money out of free software.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Friday May 26 2017, @11:51AM (1 child)
I don't think that there is any *reason* why all the main desktop systems can't work on a Devuan base.
Please, explain the reason, if there is any.
I've heard second-hand (but I could be wrong) that Gnome 3 had an explicit dependency on systemd, because the Gnome developers wanted it that way. There's nothing anyone can do about that (except fork).
At the moment it's only XFCE and LXDE I think because the project is pushed as far into "user-friendly desktop" territory, as is sufficient for the needs of the people running the Devuan project :-)
But if the base system is strong, other people can build their distros on top of it, just like the multitudinous offspring of Debian.
I have not been paying attention, so I don't know which desktops are supported today. There was one distro (but I forgot its name, sorry! maybe EXE or Refracta) that was going for Devuan base + re-animated KDE 3; the Trinity [trinitydesktop.org] project.
Personally, I found KDE 3 fantastically user-friendly; and I regret the upgrade to KDE 4 just to exchange the working KMail for something complicated and arcane involving a cashew nut glued to the upper right corner of the screen.
I once tried to study consolekit and logind, for shits and giggles, but I found it quite difficult to understand how these projects were the minimum dependency-poor solution to the problem of users at a Linux workstation, and the special system access rights a logged-in user needs (such as stick in a DVD or a USB stick, shutdown, etc). Before you know it, dbus and udev are pulled in, and then the avalance starts.
(Score: 3, Informative) by coolgopher on Friday May 26 2017, @12:41PM
Two words: systemd dependencies.
Actually, add a third word: time.
Unravelling and evicting systemd's tendrils takes effort.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 26 2017, @07:22PM (1 child)
> The closest thing to a mainstream distro sans systemd that you're likely to see for a long time is Devuan
Check out AntiX, void, and LMDE...
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Saturday May 27 2017, @06:02PM
I'm sure there has been a lot of code-sharing between these distros. Not to mention that there are now Devuan derivatives, such as Gnuinos, Refracta, heads (a cross between Devuan and tails), and more [devuan.org] (about 40% down the page).
Have fun.
-- hendrik
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday May 26 2017, @11:03AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 26 2017, @03:58PM
Security patches arrive swiftly, because the repository is backed with debian packages.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 27 2017, @07:28AM (2 children)
That means you just continued using Debian after throwing a tantrum?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday May 27 2017, @02:05PM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 29 2017, @08:04AM
So you mean even the sysvinit maintainer (Ian wanted to adopt the package) no longer uses it?