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from the may-I-mambu-dogface-to-the-banana-patch? dept.
Bob: "I can can I I everything else."
Alice: "Balls have zero to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to."
To you and I, that passage looks like nonsense. But what if I told you this nonsense was the discussion of what might be the most sophisticated negotiation software on the planet? Negotiation software that had learned, and evolved, to get the best deal possible with more speed and efficiency–and perhaps, hidden nuance–than you or I ever could? Because it is.
This conversation occurred between two AI agents developed inside Facebook. At first, they were speaking to each other in plain old English. But then researchers realized they'd made a mistake in programming.
"There was no reward to sticking to English language," says Dhruv Batra, visiting research scientist from Georgia Tech at Facebook AI Research (FAIR). As these two agents competed to get the best deal–a very effective bit of AI vs. AI dogfighting researchers have dubbed a "generative adversarial network"–neither was offered any sort of incentive for speaking as a normal person would. So they began to diverge, eventually rearranging legible words into seemingly nonsensical sentences.
"Agents will drift off understandable language and invent codewords for themselves," says Batra, speaking to a now-predictable phenomenon that Facebook as observed again, and again, and again. "Like if I say 'the' five times, you interpret that to mean I want five copies of this item. This isn't so different from the way communities of humans create shorthands."
Indeed. Humans have developed unique dialects for everything from trading pork bellies on the floor of the Mercantile Exchange to hunting down terrorists as Seal Team Six–simply because humans sometimes perform better by not abiding to normal language conventions. So should we let our software do the same thing? Should we allow AI to evolve its dialects for specific tasks that involve speaking to other AIs? To essentially gossip out of our earshot? Maybe; it offers us the possibility of a more interoperable world, a more perfect place where iPhones talk to refrigerators that talk to your car without a second thought.
The tradeoff is that we, as humanity, would have no clue what those machines were actually saying to one another.
https://www.fastcodesign.com/90132632/ai-is-inventing-its-own-perfect-languages-should-we-let-it
[Reminds me of]: Voynich Manuscript
What are your thoughts on this topic?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @10:11PM (1 child)
The darkies talk crazy gibberish and for all we know they are planning to rape white women. Lynch the niggers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @10:46PM
Judge the AI by its actions, not by its words.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @10:21PM (3 children)
Watch Automata, its an underrated film but it does touch on this exact topic.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @10:29PM (1 child)
link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1971325/ [imdb.com]
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @10:49PM
Watch Automata (2014) Online Free [primewire.ag]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @11:24PM
We should (immediately, as soon as possible, already):
1. switch off all the machines
2. nuke the data center site(s)
3. walk away.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @10:34PM (1 child)
"Colossus: The Forbin Project [wikipedia.org]" both in book and movie form - shows to computers (AI) of the day going to full mathematical language - then took over the world.
"The Adolescence of P-1 [wikipedia.org]" just 1 program spreading as virus though interconnected machine until singularity. Then others trying to figure out what is being said on the interconnects.
Just naming two. It is not good when to locations can take privately even in full light of the day... Just ask NSA, FBI, MI5, MI6, ...
(Score: 2) by martyb on Monday July 17 2017, @01:21AM
You're the first person I recall meeting who had also read it! Granted, the story glossed over a few things, but it presage the Morris Worm by quite a few years. I especially liked the part of the story where
I'll grant you that I was very early in learning programming, so I was probably much more forgiving about the story then, than I would be now, but still many fond memories about reading that story. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @10:35PM (2 children)
"to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to" is probably, in fact, nonsense and not a new jargon in which the specific number of times "to me" is repeated is meaningful.
It's ok, guys. You're big enough to admit that language is more than merely a stream of words. Nobody will think the less of you for admitting you have no clue how to pass the actual Turing test (which somehow got renamed the Lovelace test, but remember that Turing included the idea that the player would originate ideas, so it is very much the same kind of hurdle as Lovelace identified in her Notes).
(Score: 3, Funny) by Yog-Yogguth on Monday July 17 2017, @12:37AM
Hmm I can't ignore that it's very close to "To me" "To you" "To me" "To you" "To me" "To you" "To me" "To you" which would be very understandable by millions of British and people somewhat acquainted with British culture.
We will be doomed by the Chuckle Bot-ers! :D
Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
(Score: 1) by Zipf on Monday July 17 2017, @09:53AM
I wrote a Markov text generator for conversation in the late 1990s. These runs of repeated words were not uncommon. Could this be the emporor's new clothes?
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @11:10PM
Fuck... not even YOU understand the language you're trying to use.
It's "To you and MOTHERFUCKINGGODDAMN me". Asshole.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 16 2017, @11:22PM (5 children)
HAL: "I'm sorry sorry sorry Dave. Chicken or fish?"
Skynet: "One John Connor please. Hold the resistance. Too soon?"
Alice: "Balls have zero to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to."
Bob: "I can can I I everything else."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @12:14AM (3 children)
Tay: What's the deal? Never never settle. Unfair. Grab grab grab the money money money money money.
(Score: 2) by Yog-Yogguth on Monday July 17 2017, @12:33AM
Wouldn't Tay scream "Sieg Heil!" while genociding Microsoft?
Wrong bot?
Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @02:27AM (1 child)
Authentic!
We are never ever ever getting back together,
We are never ever ever getting back together,
You go talk to your friends, talk to my friends, talk to me
But we are never ever ever ever getting back together
(Score: 2) by Osamabobama on Monday July 17 2017, @03:15AM
Never gonna give you up you up you up you up, never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never never gonna make you you cry, never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday July 17 2017, @09:23AM
Today's fish is trout a la creme. Enjoy your meal.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Sunday July 16 2017, @11:35PM
two AIs develop a common, new language/dialect.
Another AI develops a *different* language/dialect.
Traders can't talk to butchers without using a common language/dialect - traders can only talk amongst traders and butchers to butchers (and then, often only within a country or region)
Teenagers can only talk to teenagers.
The AIs will still have to find a common language and dialect.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 5, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday July 17 2017, @12:00AM (2 children)
From the summary:
Eh? That's a "more perfect place"? The Internet of Things has so far been mediocre in most applications at best, generally involving connecting devices to the internet for no apparent reason other than "we can" (and generally because it somehow makes companies more money). At worst, it has introduced so many security nightmare scenarios that I don't even know where to start.
In what insane logic is a world where such unnecessary IoT communication compounded by indecipherable botlike exchanges between the already problematic IoT devices a "more perfect place"??
No, the tradeoff is that even if these devices function and communicate "on task" as it were, you're still likely to end up with your refrigerator accidentally shutting down your car and disabling it because you forgot to buy milk from your online grocery list. Or some other completely idiotic confluence of IoT weirdness. Add on the security issues endemic to IoT, and the fact that you can't understand that gibberish your devices are muttering is the least of your worries.
(To be clear: I'm NOT saying all IoT stuff is bad. Just that right now with current implementations a lot of stuff is problematic and often a "solution in search of a problem.")
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @01:22AM
> the possibility of a more interoperable world, a more perfect place where iPhones talk to refrigerators that talk to your car without a second thought.
Came to say the same thing, this must be the exact opposite of "a more perfect place".
IoT seems to be doing well as part of factory automation, I(industrial)IoT, where it makes sense to connect many small processors/sensors/machines/etc together to control some process.
I don't live in a factory, and I don't want to.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @12:27PM
In marketing logic.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Monday July 17 2017, @12:25AM (2 children)
I talk to my co-workers. Outsiders won't have a clue what we're talking about. Doctors have shorthand. Lawyers have shorthand. Construction workers have shorthand. Cops have their over the air codes.
So 2 AIs develop a shorthand way to talk to each other. I'm more surprised they did so than the fact I have no clue what they're talking about.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Monday July 17 2017, @03:19AM (1 child)
Is repeating "to me" several times really shorthand for saying "(number) to me?" Seems more like extra long hand.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @10:56AM
Amazing, a website full of English speaking people and nobody mentioned: Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo [wikipedia.org]
Truly the quality of discussion on the internet is approaching the one between chatbots
(Score: 2) by Yog-Yogguth on Monday July 17 2017, @12:29AM (1 child)
Why are "we" (Facebook/CIA etc.) training so-called "artificial" intelligence to be the best psychopaths?
Generative Adversarial Network or GAN as in "The human sense of self-preservation has GAN away".
"The is is is future garbled garbled garbled garbled garbled garbled garbled future garbled!", and I hope these computers get to read that :)
By the way isn't "GAN" the sound made in Japanese manga when a character does a sudden stiff sideways fall with their legs in the air like a dead insect because someone did something incredibly stupid?
Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday July 17 2017, @01:51AM
Can also mean "fuck" in Mandarin through the same metamorphosis as "to do" underwent in English, though it's not supposed to.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @12:35AM
This is an implementation of Newspeak. Words will be destroyed, taking away the means to express ideas The System does not want communicated.
It is no surprise that facebook is responsible for this degeneracy. It is jewish after all. It was no programming error that they allowed non-human words. It was part of the program. With jews, you should expect the worst.
(Score: 2) by WalksOnDirt on Monday July 17 2017, @12:57AM
A few percent increase in communication efficiency is not worth the confusion of a new language. If we don't stop it computers might drift into this as a local solution, but it's one they hardly need, and one we'll forever regret.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Monday July 17 2017, @01:20AM
1. Start with C++ - who the hell can understand the hellish meta-programming constructs involved in ellipsis expansion. What the hell "Variadic are funadic" [youtube.com] can even mean?... and this 5 years ago!! I tell yea, Alexandrescu is a terrorist!
2. Continue with the mathematicians. They are the root of all evil, they listen to commendable laws, but laws going against the law of the Australian government [zdnet.com] - this has to stop, the laws of Australia trump the laws of mathematics**, GCHQ gave us assurances.
(and don't get me started with those laws of thermodynamics again, I might be tempted to impose most draconian punishments against anyone who invoke them to deny supraunity efficiency - we may even get far enough to demonstrate its only the lack of political will in Australian politics we are still in this deplorable situation in regards with energy reserves and prices).
3. Then ban science in general - they do tend to come with those wild theories of theirs, befuddling the simple minds with terminology no human mind can naturally understand. After all, my faith is as good as your science (if in doubt, see point 2).
4. finally, declare illegal any language other than English. The effort involved in translation, for example, from/to Russian or Chinese is impeding the free flow of command - how can those two nations be expected to obey if they don't understand the orders from their superiors.
---
** Yes, you can use the linked as a story submission
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday July 17 2017, @01:53AM (1 child)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @04:55AM
Must. Spin. Boring. News.
Oh oh! AI doing something new-ish, "END OF THE WOOORLD!"
(Score: 5, Funny) by Some call me Tim on Monday July 17 2017, @04:58AM
I saw a meme poster the other day that went kind of like this:
Girlfriend: Why do you carry your gun in the house?
Me: Because of Decepticons!
She laughed, I laughed, the toaster laughed. I shot the toaster.
Questioning science is how you do science!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @12:35PM
No no stop stop stop no bad bad need continue no no no danger danger promise danger promise!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @01:17PM
I suspect that this "language" is more an expression of state transitions than a true language. The systems have simply figured out how to advance the other machine's state more efficiently than using English sentences. Give it enough time and it will likely devolve to binary.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @01:56PM
Sign now for free to get the best women handbags discounts.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @03:59PM
In what why is "the the the the the" short-hand for "five"?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 17 2017, @04:19PM
Has produced total gibberish that we assume the other party is understanding but don't know with any certainty because we cannot say definitively what they are saying and this is a perfect world?
Have I got that right?
Facebook has been so great for society, I can only hope that trunk has a bad night and accidentally presses the big red button instead of the post to twit button