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Over at Vice/Motherboard is an article on the expected lifetime of apple phones, based on the proceedings in a class action lawsuit over problems with iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus devices.
When it released its iPhone 7 Environmental Report a year ago, Apple wrote that it "conservatively assumes a three-year period for power use by first owners," which is "based on historical customer use data for similar products."
Greg Joswiak, Apple's VP of iOS, iPad, and iPhone Marketing, told Buzzfeed last month that iPhones are "the highest quality and most durable devices. We do this because it's better for the customer, for the iPhone, and for the planet."
But in court, Apple argues that it is only responsible for ensuring the iPhone lasts one year, the default warranty you get when you buy an iPhone.
The case in question is related to problems with the touch screen, as the soldering connections to the controller IC fail. However this failure only occurs after months of normal usage.
In that court case, currently being litigated in California, the plaintiffs attempted to argue that "consumers reasonably expect that smartphones will remain operable for at least two years when not subject to abuse or neglect because the overwhelming majority of smartphone users are required to sign service contracts with cellular carriers for two year periods."
Apple's motion to dismiss in that case noted that the plaintiffs' phones broke more than a year after they were purchased, which is after the warranty expired. If your phone breaks after the warranty is up, well, you're out of luck, Apple argues.
Arturo González, the lawyer representing Apple in the case, wrote in the motion [...] that it is "not appropriate for courts to rewrite the express terms of a warranty simply because of a consumer's unilateral expectations about a product."
More background on the case from last October in Fortune
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @03:26PM (1 child)
I've got a 15-year-old laptop that works just fine, because I can program it without obstruction.
The one thing holding back the longevity of these mobile computers known as "iPhones" is the proprietary nature of the software.
(Score: 5, Funny) by DannyB on Wednesday September 13 2017, @05:33PM
Let's ask Mr. Owl . . .
Mr. Owl replies . . . an iPhone should last as long as possible, hopefully until Apple sends the device a notification that a newer model is available. Upon notification, the device should gradually develop performance issues and have less and less free storage available, which subtly prompts the user to upgrade.
(please remain on the line for a survey about how well this answer resolved your issue)
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @03:33PM (1 child)
Of course it only will last a year. At this time next year you will have an automatic withdrawl from your bank account of $999 so you can pre-order the all new iPhone X Bobcat.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday September 14 2017, @02:14AM
That won't be enough for me.
Where I live the cheapest iPhone X will cost me 1799 of my local dollars.
Well it won't, but if I had more money than sense it would.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday September 13 2017, @04:03PM (8 children)
Well this should tell you a lot about exactly what kind of company Apple is: one that doesn't stand behind their products, and lies about their quality, promising you one thing and then when you have a problem telling you to fuck off because the warranty is only 1 year, even though they conspired with cellular carriers to convince you to sign up for a 2-year contract on the device.
But the Apple lovers will never learn, and will happily keep buying this crap no matter how much they get screwed. I know someone like this; had an iPhone 6 that didn't last the full 2 years her contract was for, got a broken screen, but she kept using it. I tried to convince her to get an inexpensive or used Android phone, and switch to a much-cheaper MVNO from her high-priced Verizon plan, but she just had to have an apple. One day the phone finally dies, so desperate, she goes to the carrier's store and signs up for a brand-new iPhone 7 (since they didn't have any older models) at full price. Now keep in mind, this is a single mother who seems to be struggling to make ends meet (she's frequently complaining about money issues any time I'm around). $700+ for a phone and $100+ per month for service is a significant part of her budget.
Honestly, it's amazing how this company has gotten to where people will abandon all financial sense so they can have their products, when comparable or better products are available for a fraction of the price, and there's simply no good reason anyone *needs* them. If it was like this in the automobile industry, we'd see lower middle-class people literally starving themselves and not paying rent just so they could have the very latest Jaguar or BMW (complete with regular factory service and monthly dealership check-ups). Somehow, most people are OK with forgoing the BMW if they really can't afford it, and buying a Toyota instead, or even a Ford. But suggest to someone that they should consider a low-priced Samsung or Huawei or whatever (you can get a Samsung a couple generations old for dirt cheap now) on a no-contract service instead of the high-priced full-service carrier plans and they'll act like you're treating them like dirt-poor people.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday September 13 2017, @05:36PM (1 child)
About the subject line . . .
I would observe that the child can beg on the street for food. But good luck begging for an iPhone.
(ducks, hides under desk)
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday September 13 2017, @05:54PM
Why not both? There's good money to made in child pimping.
(Score: 2) by aclarke on Wednesday September 13 2017, @07:01PM (2 children)
Oh for goodness sakes! What in the .. wh sl I can't even.
This is really easy. Apple DESIGNS and MANUFACTURES their phones to last more than a year. They WARRANTY their phones for a year.
Was that hard? No, that wasn't hard.
Find me a company that warranties their product for a year, and designs it to last six months, and I'll show you a company on it's way out of business.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Lester on Wednesday September 13 2017, @09:47PM (1 child)
Are you sure? Do you know what Planned obsolescence [wikipedia.org] is?
(Score: 2) by aclarke on Thursday September 14 2017, @12:57AM
Of course I know what planned obsolescence is. Do you, though? Kinda the whole point of the article is that phones are in general lasting LONGER than the warranty period. Calling something planned obsolescence because the new ones are shiny and ooh I want one is a bit of a stretch. That's out-of-control materialism, not planned obsolescence. The quote from TFS is Apple phones are "the highest quality and most durable devices. We do this because it's better for the customer, for the iPhone, and for the planet." Again, the opposite of planned obsolescence.
Supporting anecdote: I have a first generation iPad, 5.5 years old. It still works more or less as well as it did when new. I just pulled it out tonight so my daughter could read a Kindle book on it. Where's the "planned obsolescence"?
Have you looked at the major mobile phone hardware and OS makers and studied how long each of them generally support a hardware design with software updates? Of all the legitimate arguments one could have against Apple, planned obsolescence is an odd one to choose.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by davester666 on Thursday September 14 2017, @06:28AM (2 children)
Perhaps you could start listing the Android manufacturers that:
1) have warranty's longer than a year
2) support their devices with OS updates as long as Apple does (for example, I have an iPhone 5S, released in 2013, that I just updated to iOS 11)
"got a broken screen" is bullshit. "X broke the screen" would be accurate. And broken screens are not an Apple-specific problem, or even mostly an Apple problem, AND CAN BE REPAIRED. You do not have to throw the phone away, you can get just the screen replaced for a fairly low fee.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Thursday September 14 2017, @01:19PM (1 child)
I should have expected an Apple sycophant to reply....
Perhaps you could start listing the Android manufacturers that:
1) have warranty's longer than a year
2) support their devices with OS updates as long as Apple does (for example, I have an iPhone 5S, released in 2013, that I just updated to iOS 11)
First, my 3-year-old Samsung is still getting updates. But the comparison is invalid: I can buy a very nice Android phone for $150 or less now (new, even less used). An Apple phone now costs $999. For the price of one iPhone, I can easily afford to buy a new Android phone every year, or whenever one breaks, and still come out way ahead.
As for iOS updates, those are bullshit. I'm constantly reading complaints by older iPhone users about how the OS gets updated and now their phone is slow as molasses. Having a 5-year-old iPhone with the latest iOS isn't very helpful when it's so slow you can't use it effectively.
You do not have to throw the phone away, you can get just the screen replaced for a fairly low fee.
Not on iPhones you don't; the parts are controlled by Apple and are very expensive, and you have to go to an Apple store to do it because of their control of the parts. For the price of the repair, you can buy a brand-new Android phone that'll likely be faster than a non-new iPhone that's been slowed down with a new iOS version.
(Score: 2) by davester666 on Thursday September 14 2017, @05:44PM
Talk about an invalid comparison, namely the price of a high-end Apple phone vs a old, used Android phone.
Yes, you can buy a cheap Android phone every year. But a $150 Android phone every year means that $150 is full retail and that will be one crappy phone, compared to the $999 iPhone. It won't need a Android update to go slow.
And does new iOS update make older phones feel like they are slower? Yes, because the phone is DOING MORE. And, you have the choice of doing the upgrade or not. With Android, you don't have that choice. Samsung decides the phone doesn't get an update, it doesn't get an update. If you buy a $999 Samsung, it is more likely to get the update than those $150 throwaway phones.
And I guess all those stores in malls and elsewhere (which, btw, aren't Apple owned/operated/sanctioned), which I have used to replace one iPhone screen personally, don't exist and didn't fix my screen.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday September 13 2017, @04:12PM (4 children)
iPhone x is a 10 year anniversary phone. So it is only fair that it lasts 10 years, right?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by BK on Wednesday September 13 2017, @04:14PM
The critical word there is anniversary, so really just 1 year.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday September 13 2017, @05:38PM
If you were happy to buy a 10 year anniversary phone, then you should be even happier to buy an 11 year anniversary phone. And 12 year, etc.
But don't throw those dead iPhones away! Add them to a collection. Dead iPhones improve with age.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 3, Informative) by julian on Wednesday September 13 2017, @06:10PM
I have an iPod that old that still works. It was used daily for more than 5 years. I wouldn't *want* to use it today because the specs are so outdated but it works the same as it did when new except for the battery (which *could* be replaced). The battery is a little difficult to replace, but not impossible. 3rd party replacement parts are available.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @10:55PM
Doesn't that mean it will work once every 10 years?
(Score: 2) by goodie on Wednesday September 13 2017, @04:14PM (5 children)
In Quebec for example, consumers can expect that a product they buy will have a reasonable life expectancy, regardless of how long the maker gives as a warranty. For example: you buy a fridge, comes with 1 year warranty, it breaks after 13 months, you can go to court and claim that the warranty should still be valid, and you will win (I know, that sounds crazy...). From what I've been told, it's a pretty special arrangement that's in place and that manufacturers and sellers of extended warranties don't like. Between that and having to label everything in French, some manufacturers are basically not doing business in Quebec ;-).
Now, you can claim that you did not abuse your fridge a lot more easily than you can of your phone, which you can drop, throw etc. so that's a different question.
source: https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/legal-warranty-automatic-protection-consumers [educaloi.qc.ca]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @04:33PM (3 children)
Every time I get a whiff of Quebec, I wince in disgust. Thanks for the latest whiff.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @04:53PM (2 children)
Who knew that protecting consumers from shady corporations was a good thing??
Obviously not you.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @05:24PM (1 child)
There is no fraud here. You know the rules of the game going into your purchase.
I don't need your fucking Nanny State; quit trying to make me pay for it!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Wednesday September 13 2017, @06:00PM
> I don't need your fucking Nanny State
Afghanistan, Syria, or Somalia?
The rest of us like to get legal protection against profit-driven, heartless, cash-rich, corrupting overlords.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @05:11PM
Same thing in atleast northern Europe.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @04:35PM (11 children)
I'm having trouble here understanding the problem here.
I have a 2-year-old laptop, and it's running fine. It had a 2-year warranty. So the company warrants that it will last for a minimum of 2 years. However, when I bought it, I expected it would last for 4+ years. The same can be said for my LG phone, my Motorola Bluetooth headset, my car, my refrigerator, and countless other things. However, those are expectations, and if my Bluetooth headset were to break today I'd be upset, but not surprised given its now out of warranty.
I fail to see the contradiction between having a warranty, and having an expectation that a device will last longer than that. The only potential issue I see is if this were a case of false or misleading advertising, in which case we'd need metrics about the failure curve of iPhones. If the average is 2 years or longer, I don't see much of a case here... as Apple said, those who had problems between the 1 and 2 year timeframe are just unlucky.
If you want a phone to be guaranteed to last 2 years, then buy one with a 2-year-warranty. It seems unreasonable and unfair to go to a manufacturer and say, "I'll pay for barebones plan, but expect premium service." If you want it, it's entirely expected that you should pay for it.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday September 13 2017, @04:44PM (5 children)
If you want a phone to be guaranteed to last 2 years, then buy one with a 2-year-warranty. It seems unreasonable and unfair to go to a manufacturer and say, "I'll pay for barebones plan, but expect premium service." If you want it, it's entirely expected that you should pay for it.
That only makes sense if the manufacturer only claims that the device will reliably last 1 year. If they're making public claims and advertisements that their device is "the most durable device" and will last many years, then a 1-year warranty is intellectually dishonest. In short, I think a case could be made that companies should absolutely be held to their marketing claims; otherwise they're getting away with false advertising.
Moreover, these phones are typically sold with 2-year contracts. I don't see how that should be legal; if you're buying into a 2-year plan that includes a device, that device should be expected to last 2 years minimum. If they only want to warrant it for 1 year, then they should only be allowed to sell them in 1-year plans. (Or, the carrier should be required to warrant the device for the full 2 years as part of their plan.)
(Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday September 13 2017, @06:09PM (2 children)
And hence this court case.
Their advertising claim caught up with them.
Every automobile manufacturer learned to state warranties in measurable turns (miles, months, etc). But Apple just made some casual statements about durability based on the average age of similar devices. The court case is to determine if this amounts to a warranty extension.
Does expectation actually count as advertising? That's an open question.
I suspect it does not equate to a warranty because the statement was not based on similar devices, and was in terms of "expectations" and never stated anything close to a promise.
Batteries have a limited charge/discharge life expectancy. You can run through much of the expected battery longevity within a year of charge to max, use aggressively all the time till exhaustion, rinse and repeat. The phones these days are sealed, and batteries are not user serviceable. The electronics may be good for 10 years. But they can hardly warrant one part and exclude another while at the same time voiding your warranty if you open the phone to replace the battery.
I would say that they couldn't offer much longer warranty while using this battery technology in a sealed device while imposing no built in limits to usage.
So I could make the claim that their warranty is intellectually and legally honest, while their "protected speech" gushing about their product is clearly NOT.
Turn's out its NOT the "best thing ever".
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @10:59PM
This is why I am concerned about the Galaxy 8. I go through 1.5 batteries worth every day. Which is why I carry a spare fully charged battery to swap in. What do Galaxy 8 users do?
(Score: 2) by aclarke on Thursday September 14 2017, @01:06AM
Any company of Apple's size is employing manufacturing engineers. They're looking at each component and performing complex analyses on each part to both bring the cost of manufacturing down, and balancing that against warranty costs. Plus of course the reputation cost of having a Samsung, err, I mean lemon.
You could go to any of these companies and people in the know would be able to tell you their design parameters. The fact that Apple has them, and the fact that they're designed to last more than a year, are both such obvious facts that anyone with any manufacturing knowledge or common sense would probably not even consider them to be worth mentioning.
I still stand by the fact that essentially saying "we design our phones to last at least three years but we only guarantee our phones to last one" is an entirely logical and defensible position. Then again I am neither a lawyer, nor a Californian.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @07:07PM (1 child)
Okay, then let's consider the following failure curve.
1 year: 5% of devices have failed
2 years: 10% of devices have failed
3 years: 20% of devices have failed
4 years: 50% of devices have failed
5 years: 80% of devices have failed
6 years: 100% of devices have failed.
So how would you warrant and advertise this device. In my mind, I think it would be reasonable to say "we provide a 1-year warranty for this product, but we expect it to last 3 years or longer."
However, it sounds like you would say that that is false advertising and subject to a lawsuit. So how would you sell it? Keep in mind you are also trying to maximize profits for your company, so offering a 6-year warranty is great customer service, but will make you go bankrupt.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @10:09PM
Assuming that is the failure curve for the device under normal and/or expected use, you wouldn't. You'd fire the design and engineering teams that produced such a shoddy piece of junk. That curve is just shameful and I really hope you pulled it out of your ass because it's shit.
If that is a real-life failure curve, PLEASE tell me what product it is so I know to never, ever buy it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @05:26PM (3 children)
How is it a premium service expecting a phone, or pretty much any electrical device, to work atleast 2 years (unless it's mishandled, that's a different thing)? Fridges cost less than an iphone and they are expected to work a lot longer.
Why don't you smell what you are shoveling.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday September 13 2017, @05:42PM (2 children)
And toilets outlast fridges by decades.
Anvils are usually good for 200 years.
Put some electronics and a limited life-cycle battery into something meant to be carried around by careless humans and you have the worst possible working environment.
Post back after you've carried your fridge around every day for a year.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @06:20PM (1 child)
Why don't you come back after you learn to read.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday September 13 2017, @11:19PM
I doubt that constant/normal use would count as mishandling.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 4, Funny) by frojack on Wednesday September 13 2017, @05:27PM
Pretty much exactly how I see it.
The warranty protects you against defects in "materials and workmanship", and a few other things that are specifically mentioned. (With due regard for the LONG list of exclusions).
It should cover things like "you're holding it wrong" or "you're bending it wrong" - both afflictions suffered by iPhones over the years, as well as fire in the pants Samsung fails. There are implied assumptions about suitability for purpose etc etc that have been added by legislation in some places.
Its unusual for have a purely electronic device just fail with no abuse. Its expected to have a battery fail. Its expected that some memory devices may degrade.
Cell phones are an odd combination of various MTBF items.
Once its in your hands, its pretty much your responsibility to take care if it.
You have far more influence over the device life than the manufacturer, it was in their hands for mere weeks. In yours for years.
I don't know what this "power user" of which apple speaks is. I rather suspect it is a teen age girl.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by Some call me Tim on Wednesday September 13 2017, @06:40PM (1 child)
My 11 year old Palm Treo laughs at Apple. Had to replace the battery 5 years ago, other than that it works fine and does everything I need it to do. I charge it once a week.
Questioning science is how you do science!
(Score: 2, Funny) by dr_barnowl on Thursday September 14 2017, @02:05PM
Heh, I used to have to replace the batteries on my Palm all the time.
But that's because it was a Palm III and took AAAs.
And by "all the time" I really mean every 3 weeks or so...
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @06:42PM
Then when you see it's an iphone you put it down and choose an android phone instead.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @07:42PM (1 child)
Then Apple would not only lose money replacing everything under warranty, but people would get fed up and stop giving money to these authoritarian douches who think you shouldn't get a say about what your phone can do.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by e_armadillo on Wednesday September 13 2017, @09:00PM
Nobody is saying you should, or must, buy an iPhone. You are free to go buy something (or nothing) else. I really don't understand this utter contempt for the walled garden. If you don't like it, move on. Why waste energy worrying about it? Moreover, why take it so personally? You have other options . . .
"How are we gonna get out of here?" ... "We'll dig our way out!" ... "No, no, dig UP stupid!"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @07:55PM (7 children)
Call me old school, but I believe when you buy something, it's yours, and should last your lifetime. Reality is different, I know.
However, I do have an iPhone 4 I've had since 2011, still working great, original battery and original screen. Apple has obviously stopped releasing updates for it and you can't get any apps for it anymore. I'll eventually upgrade to an iPhone 5 or 6.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @08:08PM (3 children)
You don't get to say
and still want to buy an iPhone. You are directly supporting the opposite of your beliefs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @08:25PM (2 children)
Well, I could buy an android and have viruses galore, I guess. Not too many options out there if you want a "smart" phone.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 13 2017, @10:00PM
Options include black [wikimedia.org], white [wikimedia.org] or beige. [wikimedia.org]
(Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday September 13 2017, @11:21PM
hah. And a phone that isn't receiving updates is somehow immune?
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 3, Informative) by julian on Wednesday September 13 2017, @11:52PM (2 children)
So let's say this was true for computers. You bought an 8-bit computer in the 1970s with a Zilog Z-80 CPU and 8k of RAM. It still works today in 2017, *exactly* as well as it did in 1977!
Are you still using it? I doubt it. Can't even get online (maybe some BBS but not the www).
Your phone might work after 5-10 years of gentle use, but you're not going to *want* to use it anymore after that long.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 14 2017, @06:49AM
That all depends on how locked down/bug brother/think of the children the new phones are.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday September 14 2017, @11:52AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 14 2017, @08:24AM (1 child)
Over here, a shitty product is expected to last two years (warranty length) plus a couple of days. If you convey an image of being a quality brand with a premium product, your product had better last a lot longer than that.
If it costs five times as much as a shitty Korean product with crap capacitors, it had better last five times as long.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 14 2017, @01:40PM
I view it as an experiment. We're testing one of the underpinning assumptions of the theory of free markets.
Are people so gullible that it's possible to create the image of a premium product with nothing but marketing and charge for a premium product when the product is actually quite average?
Is it possible to keep this up indefinitely? How long will the tribalism instinct cause people to reject reports that indicate that the device they paid a premium for is not, in fact, a premium device?
Disclaimer: My existing belief is that the free market, especially in the age of the internet, should quickly expose premium brands that do not product premium products but charge a premium. However, I have begun questioning that belief of mine.