SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop. Only 13 submissions in the queue.
SoylentNews
In a recent Reuters story http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-banks-conference-jpmorgan/jpmorgans-dimon-says-bitcoin-is-a-fraud-idUSKCN1BN2KP, JPMorgan's Jamie Dimon threw a bomb at the emerging cryptocurrency.
In the story he states, "The currency isn't going to work. You can't have a business where people can invent a currency out of thin air and think that people who are buying it are really smart."
He goes on to compare Bitcoin to the 17th-century Dutch tulip bulb situation.
Is he right, or is he just shilling for the present system of imaginary-value fiat currencies?
[Separately, according to Bloomberg, Bitcoin has been on a five-day decline: Bitcoin Crashes After Chinese Exchange Says It Will Halt Trading. --Ed.].
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
JPMorgan's Jamie Dimon Says Cryptocurrency a Fraud, Bound to Fail
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 69 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
There is a 20% chance of tomorrow.
(Score: 2) by n1 on Friday September 15 2017, @05:25AM (8 children)
By that measure banknotes in transactional terms are worth much more than their face value, since there is far less physical currency in circulation than there is M1 money supply.
Also where does this leave us when banknotes are phased out, as is being attempted in most major economies by phasing out high denomination notes and encouraging the idea that anyone who would want them, or holds large amounts of cash is likely engaged in criminal activity?
Even my 80 year old, very traditional grandfather thinks contactless payments (no auth) for small transactions with his debit card is the best thing since sliced bread, because it's so easy and quick. In the UK, basically no one I know uses physical currency anymore.
The biggest difference that remains between Bitcoin and fiat is that you can't pay your taxes in bitcoin or other crypto, except in the Swiss municipality of Chiasso.
I am not a fan of bitcoin but it has become more practical as time goes on, as noted in another comment, i bought this laptop from newegg with bitcoin, because it was the easiest way to pay as a non-US customer. And as someone who's money is held in GBP£, sudden drops and volatility of the currency used in normal transactions is part of life now.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-global-economy-cash/cashless-society-getting-closer-survey-finds-idUKKBN17S001 [reuters.com]
And then there's the other BTC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Than_Cash_Alliance [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday September 15 2017, @02:06PM (1 child)
By that measure banknotes in transactional terms are worth much more than their face value, since there is far less physical currency in circulation than there is M1 money supply.
Physical currency doesn't need to match the M1 money supply; most financial transactions are done electronically now. Physical currency ("cash") is just used for transactions which aren't done electronically. The difference between fiat currencies and cryptocurrencies is that the electronic fiat currency transactions go through central banks.
(Score: 2) by n1 on Friday September 15 2017, @07:29PM
The comment i replied to was directly comparing fiat banknotes with bitcoin as if banknotes are the only form of fiat, and the physical manifestation is what gives it value.
The central bank part is right, but bitcoin has the ledger/blockchain. Right now central banks (BoJ, ECB, SNB) are 'printing' M1 money that are not bank notes and directly buying privately issued bonds and stocks, on top of how money is 'created' in fractional reserve banking by private banks and not the central banks.
Also worth remembering the majority of central banks in the world are hybrid public-private institutions held accountable to absolutely no one for any of their policy decisions, including how much money they print and where they allocate/spend/distribute it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday September 15 2017, @02:57PM (3 children)
There's "rarely using cash" and then there's "cash free" - just survived 5 days without electricity post-hurricane, cash is a very good thing to have as an option when "the system" is down.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by n1 on Friday September 15 2017, @07:19PM (2 children)
I completely agree, cash is extremely valuable to me as someone who travels internationally.
I am not looking forward to cashfree society, but it does seem to be where we're headed, banks, governments and other institutions have it in their long game. They are not known for seeking public consent in these matters, like when fractional reserve banking and the end of the gold standard came into play. They were not democratically endorsed shifts in how we used money, they were necessary actions to save 'the system'... The next necessary action to save the system will be to reduce to a level where physical currency is effectively removed from circulation.
The comment i replied to was comparing bitcoin to banknotes, in an attempt to demonstrate the value of fiat currency and to apparently explain why Dimon is right and bitcoin is a fraud and cult. Bitcoin is used in many different ways, it seems the most common use is to make financial transactions across the world. Something you can't do reliably or cost effectively with banknotes. If you've made a bank transfer or Western Union transfer overseas into a different currency for any reason, you'll be aware it takes time and the costs are usually very high. Bitcoin removes this, as a currency, not as an investment.
As I stated already, I am not a fan of bitcoin, but I can understand the utility just as much as banknotes, if in different situations. Not to be conspiratorial, but it wouldn't surprise me if bitcoin is actually part of the larger campaign to go 'cashfree' ... It is being used right now in emerging markets for individuals to protect their assets and pay for goods and services, without having to deal with a slow and corrupt bureaucracy, or risk demonetization. See China and India. The civilian populations in countries that have been primarily cash based have now been given an international currency option that their omnipresent government/cb has less direct control over, and they seem to be taking advantage of it.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday September 15 2017, @08:11PM
It is cool that BTC is an accessible option to escape some really bad monetary systems. People I know from unstable countries used to keep over half of their savings in gold jewelry.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 15 2017, @11:37PM
Interesting. As a volunteer I receive international payments (worldwide to me in USA) from university student teams, $500 to join a consortium. I started out 10 years ago and accepted bank-2-bank transfers (wires, direct transfers using SWIFT numbers, etc) and they were mostly awful. Often an intermediate bank would take a fee with no documentation, there was no tracking, arbitrary delays, etc.
So I started requesting Western Union and then PayPal. At present, I think the PayPal option is the cheapest. Both WU and PP fix the exchange rate at the time of initiation--I can wait to redeem for a week and if there have been changes in the exchange rate I'll still get the USD 500. Because both ends of the transaction are by one company, they usually work OK.
Q. what are Bitcoin exchange fees for this size of transfer -- buying in the non-USA country and then selling (convert to USD) once it gets here. Can this be as automated and easy as PayPal? Will I always receive exactly $500, or could I lose/gain during the time between purchase and sale of the Bitcoins? Maybe I need to find a large bitcoin exchange that has many international branches, so both ends are through one company?
(Score: 2) by tibman on Friday September 15 2017, @08:48PM (1 child)
Last time i was in the UK (last april) i always needed some cash on me. No cash? Then you can't use the bathroom! Train changes are pretty quick so i tried to always have a few pound coins and assorted change. That just lead to me paying for most things with cash. Fast food and convenience store stuff mostly. Train tickets and nice restaurants i'd use card. No idea how'd you'd survive London without a pocket full of change.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 2) by n1 on Friday September 15 2017, @09:10PM
It can certainly be helpful if you're stopping by an independent shop to buy a can of drink, or use a public toilet. Most people I know still in the UK get most of their convenient shopping done in Tesco Express, use a self-service checkout and pay with contactless debit cards.
Personally, even though i lived in London for a very long time, I never used a pay toilet.
A pocket full of change doesn't help you take a bus in London anymore.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/cash-free-buses#on-this-page-0 [tfl.gov.uk]