SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
What was it that one learned through a great books curriculum? Certainly not "conservatism" in any contemporary American sense of the term. We were not taught to become American patriots, or religious pietists, or to worship what Rudyard Kipling called "the Gods of the Market Place." We were not instructed in the evils of Marxism, or the glories of capitalism, or even the superiority of Western civilization.
As I think about it, I'm not sure we were taught anything at all. What we did was read books that raised serious questions about the human condition, and which invited us to attempt to ask serious questions of our own. Education, in this sense, wasn't a "teaching" with any fixed lesson. It was an exercise in interrogation.
To listen and understand; to question and disagree; to treat no proposition as sacred and no objection as impious; to be willing to entertain unpopular ideas and cultivate the habits of an open mind — this is what I was encouraged to do by my teachers at the University of Chicago.
It's what used to be called a liberal education.
The University of Chicago showed us something else: that every great idea is really just a spectacular disagreement with some other great idea.
Bret Stephens's speech warrants a full read. It makes valuable points that we all need to hear, even on SN.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by lcall on Wednesday September 27 2017, @04:21PM (10 children)
Enthroning honesty and the Golden Rule in our *individual* lives is essential, then seeking out honest others. Private virtue (e.g., trying to do the honest, kind thing, starting with one's own family and neighbors) is a prerequisite to societal peace. Belief in God motivates me to do that, because I have good reasons to believe that all the problems will eventually be solved, that the next life is interesting, real, important, and lasts forever, and there is a merciful and just Judge who cares and lets us learn from our choices. (Also because I see that when we justify lying or treat each other badly, we create misery for ourselves.)
It really seems like we all can get farther by improving the honesty and kindness in ourselves, more than by vilifying others. (Granted, it's so easy and tempting to criticize and maybe we all do it. But we can try to learn to help, instead. Fortunately there are good examples out there! -- sometimes quiet ones, of many persuasions, with whom we can learn and try to work.)
(Score: 2, Insightful) by lcall on Wednesday September 27 2017, @04:34PM
I have started to realize, later than ideal, that a habit of peacefully receiving some unsought hurt while trying to humbly do the right thing with kindness, has the potential to do great good over time. It is related to love and forgiving (but separate from trust -- I'm not suggesting to freely allow others to abuse or destroy, or pretend that evil is good). A loving parent or kind mentor might be classic examples. Every one of us really needs some kindness and forgiveness. (It can take tremendous time and practice to learn to actually do that, but is worthwhile.)
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday September 27 2017, @06:06PM (8 children)
And I do all that while being diametrically opposed to your religious beliefs, on philosophical, logical, historical, and theological grounds :) Interesting how that works, huh? Here's a hint: all the good stuff you mentioned is bottom-up, not top-down, and does not require a God to make it happen. And I'm not even an atheist!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by lcall on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:47PM (7 children)
If you try at those things and I try at those things, I think we can work together well.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:51PM (5 children)
Absolutely not. As long as you believe in a being that will fry most of the human race for eternity for not kissing its ass, we'll never see eye to eye. Jesus had a lot to say about people who were shiny on the outside and rotten on the inside.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Informative) by lcall on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:57PM (4 children)
It seems better to ask questions than to make harsh broad statements. I said we could work together if we try at those things (and hopefully encourage others). I didn't say we will see eye to eye. Like the point of the article.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:06PM (3 children)
The only question that needs answering here is "are you Annihilationist/Universalist?" If not, not only will we never see eye to eye, but I will have to consider you either ignorant of what it is you say you believe or a malignant sociopath. In case you're wondering, there is a good Biblical case for either, largely hinging on the use of the Koine "aion[ios/ion]" and "kolasi[s/n]" rather than "aidios" and "timoria," and the historical fact that of the six major early church centers, only the Latin-speaking center at Carthage preached endless, conscious torture, if this is what you're worried about.
In any case, though, if you are a divine command theorist, all these high-sounding morals you're going on about are stolen concepts from other worldviews, as if this is the case, yours cannot and does not include even the concept of morality let alone moral facts. This is not an attack; it is a consequence of the logic of DCT.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by aristarchus on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:11PM (2 children)
Does my memory fail me, or is ical our assigned member of the Latter Day Saints? You are not going to convince her, Azuma. Nothing can defeat Mormon nice.
(Score: 2, Informative) by lcall on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:23PM
A Mormon male. I give away software which lacks some things (like a demo video and slick installer or mobile support) but what it does have works very well (extremely fast & flexible personal knowledge organizer with a tutorial & docs; interchange features coming; AGPL):
http://onemodel.org [onemodel.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday September 27 2017, @08:32PM
Oh, Mormons are different. Whacky, but different. Most of them have three afterlife destinations, those being the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial realms; as I understand it most Mormons don't have a Hell proper. Their religion is also a Masonic con-job, and there's documentation to back it up, but as my own experience shows, religion grabs people powerfully.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by lcall on Wednesday September 27 2017, @07:53PM
...and encourage others to do the same.