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Governor Rick Scott (R) has declared a state of emergency in the county where the University of Florida lay, due to a planned speech by Richard Spencer. According to NPR:
When Hurricane Irma was bearing down on Florida last month, Gov. Rick Scott declared a state of emergency. On Monday, he did the same thing in Alachua County, ahead of a speech by white nationalist Richard Spencer at the University of Florida in Gainesville.
"We live in a country where everyone has the right to voice their opinion, however, we have zero tolerance for violence and public safety is always our number one priority," Scott said in a statement. "This executive order is an additional step to ensure that the University of Florida and the entire community is prepared so everyone can stay safe."
"I find that the threat of a potential emergency is imminent," Scott declared in his executive order, noting that Alachua County Sheriff Sadie Darnell had requested the state's assistance. The order will make it easier for various agencies to coordinate a security plan for Thursday's speech at the university.
[...] No campus group invited Spencer to speak, and the university is not hosting or sponsoring the event. Spencer's group, the National Policy Institute, is paying the university $10,564 for facility rental and security.
And it looks like it could get expensive:
The speech and accompanying protests are also a major expense: The university as well as state and local agencies expect to spend more than $500,000 to provide additional security.
And the University of Florida can't demand that Spencer pay the full cost of protecting him, because of a 1992 U.S. Supreme Court ruling, Forsyth County v. Nationalist Movement.
In that decision, the university explains, "the Court clarified that the government cannot assess a security fee on the speaker based upon the costs of controlling the reaction of potential hostile onlookers or protestors," under legal doctrine known as the "heckler's veto."
Well, that is the cost of free speech in a free country.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 18 2017, @11:10PM (57 children)
I'm curious, how many videos of antifa and friends committing violent acts do you need to see to decide they're not peaceful protesters?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 19 2017, @12:10AM (7 children)
Ah yes, the good ol' thought crime! "THEY WERE THINKING IT! JUST LOOK AT THEIR FACES!"
We should create a new police unit, since we'll be hunting down people for their premeditated acts I think we should call it "Precrime"!
How many times are you going to put words into my mouth? How many times are you going to ignore violence from the Right and only crow on about antifa? Ya, that's what I thought.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 19 2017, @12:14AM (6 children)
Thought crime? No, actual crime with video documentation of such. Are you using the same Internet as the rest of us?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 19 2017, @03:26AM (5 children)
You do realize the context is "governor declares state of emergency" which drastically increases the infringement of individual freedom. Nothing has yet happened. Do you even?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 19 2017, @09:51AM (4 children)
A terrorist organization does not just turn over a new leaf one day and start helping old ladies across the street instead of attacking people and destroying property. Being prepared is nothing but practicality.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 19 2017, @06:42PM (3 children)
How quickly you turn your belly up in the air for you masters, and you have the gall to think you're courageously pro-freedom. Right, in some warped attempt to guarantee one man's freedom of speech we must clamp down on the entirety of Alachua County.
I've said this many times before, you need therapy and/or pharmaceuticals. There is something wrong with your brain.
(Score: 2) by arcz on Thursday October 19 2017, @06:56PM
Exactly what freedoms are being crushed by having more police around than usual?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 19 2017, @07:52PM (1 child)
What he needs is to be on the receiving end of this shit. You know that old saying "A liberal is a conservative who's been jailed on false charges?" Yeah. Uzzard is a very common type among the right wing, the low-caliber sociopath who simply can't understand other peoples' suffering until it happens to him personally.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 19 2017, @09:09PM
Liberty is not a right-wing core consideration last I checked. Then again, it's not even paid lip-service to by the left anymore.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 19 2017, @02:47AM (48 children)
Nazis (neonazis, alt-right, white nationalists, etc,) want Jews, Muslims, POC, LGBTQP people, ‘non-contributing’ disabled people dead just for existing.
Antifas want Nazis afraid to organize and communicate because they are aware of the above and want those people to be safe. Since the USA has abdicated its responsibility to forcibly prevent such organization and communication, private violence is the ethically correct path until such a time as the state grows a pair.
It is not “the same thing”. It is not “more hate”. It is defending the world against people who want most of the people in it dead.
Concern that this violence might be illegal is fake, coming from you. You're worried about victims fighting back, not about their being attacked in the first place.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Mykl on Thursday October 19 2017, @03:33AM
So there was this awesome movement that opposed capitalism and the ruling class. It promised a government of the people and for the people, where everyone would receive the help that they needed and contribute what they could. A worker's paradise, a just society for everyone.
Upon seizing power in 1917, this left-leaning group proceeded to murder all of their political opponents, including their spouses and children, before setting up a brutal dictatorship. In the following years, these idealists proceeded to oppress and enslave their entire country as well as many of their neighbors.
In my opinion Antifa, if left to their own devices, would follow that very same path. They are not interested in a peaceful and free society - they're just interested in opposing the right using "any means necessary". We've seen where that can lead.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 19 2017, @05:12AM (3 children)
#NotAll of the people in those groups support violence against Jews, Muslims, POC, LGBTQP people, and ‘non-contributing’ disabled people which undermines your rationale for using violence against them. Who is in the alt-right again? 30% of everyone who voted for Donald Trump?
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 19 2017, @02:47PM (2 children)
So down with antifa yet some Nazis are "good people"? Lol, you alt-nutters are fucked in the head.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by arcz on Thursday October 19 2017, @06:53PM
Don't judge the worth of a man by his speech but by his actions. Neither does one judge the worth of a man by his associations but rather one must judge them as an individual.
I'd prefer a law abiding Neo-Nazi over a violent Antifa terrorist any day. Both of them advocate violence, but the Antifa are the main ones actually being violent.
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Friday October 20 2017, @02:45AM
FTFY.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 19 2017, @09:57AM (26 children)
No, sweety, you really don't concern me at all. The regressive left are pussies and couldn't scare anyone with even one working testicle. You should concern law enforcement though. Terrorist scumbags are terrorist scumbags, regardless of what they claim as reasons.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 19 2017, @11:12PM (25 children)
regardless of what they claim as reasons.
Even inciteful propaganda?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 19 2017, @11:41PM (24 children)
Especially using words alone as justification. Words you don't like are among the least justifiable reasons possible to commit violence.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Friday October 20 2017, @12:07AM (15 children)
Yet incitement remains the chief pretext used to justify censorship
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 20 2017, @08:12AM (14 children)
You claim that "incitement" is the deceptive excuse for imposing censorship. Government (and those in bed with it) are the only ones forbidden under the Constitution from censoring speech.
Given that you wrote that government and its associates are deceptively attempting illegal censorship, what do you propose to do about the problem? If your answer is "vote", please explain how your reasoning that leads you to believe that approach will work when using it over the preceeding generations government power has only grown.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday October 21 2017, @07:28PM (13 children)
The majority votes for bigger government. Where's the mystery?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 22 2017, @05:56AM (12 children)
The mystery is how you can reconcile your statement here, that suggests voting to stop illegal government activity doesn't work, with your previous statement [soylentnews.org] that claimed voting was the only answer to the question of what people should do when told to "do something!" to resist.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday October 22 2017, @12:00PM (11 children)
I never claimed that voting doesn't work. You're just making shit up. You have the government you voted for.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 22 2017, @07:11PM (10 children)
Then explain what you meant by "The majority votes for bigger government. Where's the mystery?". The plain language you used indicates that 1. most people vote for bigger and thus more criminal government, and 2. *I* obviously didn't, and therefore voting both does not work for me and also doesn't work to keep government from acting criminally. Did you intend some hidden, coded meaning?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday October 22 2017, @07:52PM (9 children)
No. And again you continue to make shit up. I never said voting doesn't work. The government you have shows that it works like a charm. It exists in its present form by the voters' choice. Couldn't be more obvious. This "hidden, coded meaning" thing is entirely in your head, serving as nothing but distraction.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 23 2017, @04:44AM (8 children)
It kinda sucks when you have an inconsistent belief and someone points it out to you using your own words bearing your own signature, eh?
People followed your "do something!" advice [soylentnews.org] and voted out [soylentnews.org] the establishment republicans during the Tea Party revolution a few years ago. What happened? Voting got us another crop of lying, criminal weasels which only served to expand the power and criminality of government.
Because of that, one of your two assertions are wrong: either voting does NOT work as a means to "do something!" to stop illegal actions by government, or voting "works" but still doesn't do anything to stop illegal government actions. Do you care to re-evaluate your positions?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday October 23 2017, @05:05AM (7 children)
No
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 23 2017, @06:57AM (6 children)
I thought not, since it seems literally incomprehensible for you to even entertain the idea that you could be wrong - even when you are demonstrably shown to be wrong.
For most readers, though, it isn't incomprehensible that you are wrong. It is obvious.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday October 23 2017, @02:16PM (5 children)
Sorry, I'm not wrong. You are, making things up in a rather banal fashion with your typical blame passing. Maybe it can't be helped. I'll never know in my lifetime. Whatever, do what you like. I don't mind the attention.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 23 2017, @06:23PM (4 children)
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Would you like some more rope?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday October 23 2017, @10:53PM (3 children)
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
:-) Exactly! Apply that to yourself, enlightenment, and maybe comprehension, shall be yours. Or you can carry on in denial and projection. Do whatever makes you most comfortable.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 24 2017, @12:27AM (2 children)
I've had more original [soylentnews.org] and honest conversations with cleaning rags
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday October 24 2017, @01:02AM (1 child)
Yet you choose waste your time on little ol' me, talking some inane jibber jabber that doesn't relate to what I posted. How strange... Your cleaning rags are missing you
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 24 2017, @07:40AM
The fact that you choose not to understand when small words are used to show you that your own statements contradict each other - requiring that at least one of your statements be incorrect - does not change the simple demonstrated fact that at least that one of your two conflicting statements is wrong. Using weak, limp-wristed tricks such as calling that which you do not like "jibber jabber" is something I'd expect to encounter in an insulated little child, and one not very bright.
I am more interested in your past and present environments than you at this point, ones that allowed and possibly even cultivated the laughably dictatorial mindset you exhibit along with your habit of attempting to deem something ludicrous into reality. My current guess has it being something involving government schooling, possibly a day-care.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday October 20 2017, @03:43PM (7 children)
The US justice system says otherwise:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words#United_States [wikipedia.org]
If the police claim that words alone justify violence on their part, then they ought to recognize that same attempt at justification from others.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday October 20 2017, @04:05PM (6 children)
The US justice system also says it's perfectly okay for the NSA to spy on citizens without a warrant. They view the Constitution as a suggestion or rough guidelines; I do not.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday October 20 2017, @07:05PM (4 children)
I agree...but you're the one that was calling for the justice system to take action:
So, if law enforcement is going to say that words justify violence, and you want them to go after anyone who claims that words justify violence...then they ought to be spending all their time investigating THEMSELVES for terrorism, shouldn't they?
Although that probably WOULD be a better use of their time...
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday October 20 2017, @10:27PM (3 children)
You're misunderstanding. Either deliberately or accidentally but you're definitely misunderstanding. Antifa and BAMN do not stick to words. They're happy to crack people in the head with blunt objects, pepper spray people, set things on fire, and worse for the crime of disagreeing with them. If the police know ahead of time that this might be an issue, it behooves them to be on site to make any necessary arrests.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by urza9814 on Saturday October 21 2017, @05:33PM (2 children)
I think you are the one who is not understanding. I'm not saying that Antifa uses only words; I'm saying that Antifa responds to words the same way the police do, yet here you are supporting the police in the same sentence that you criticize Antifa!
You say the cops should respond to that violence because words alone do not justify that violence. But those cops themselves claim that words alone CAN justify violence. I don't think the cops are *correct* in that belief, but if you're going to call for them to take action, you have to accept their rules. And their rules are that shutting down extremist rhetoric by any means necessary *is* sometimes justified. It's not "progessives" or "leftists" pushing that belief; it's a very conservative, established idea. It's how humanity has behaved throughout all of recorded history. It's the one idea that Antifa, the KKK, and the US government all agree on. You can't criticize Antifa for sucumbing to these insticts while simultaneously supporting others whose behavior fits the exact same pattern.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 21 2017, @05:43PM (1 child)
Where have you seen me support the policing of speech by anyone, exactly? Like I said, you're misunderstanding.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Sunday October 22 2017, @10:21PM
Forti et alietum sibi loquitur.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday October 21 2017, @06:39PM
Is there a difference between "fighting words" and "incitement"? That seemingly singular exception to free speech is still up for grabs.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2, Disagree) by VLM on Thursday October 19 2017, @01:34PM (12 children)
One big problem with the argument is if you let your enemy define you, you end up with ridiculous parodies like the above. And I assume there exist equally and opposite ridiculous parodies of antifa types made by the right.
Very little of that definition has anything to do with my beliefs or the people I listen to or read (including Spencer, for example) but it is the standard left wing definition to make them look as bad as possible.
Lets talk about Jews for example. Most of the right wants an ethnic home state for whites because the Jews have an ethnic home state so why can't we? Our culture is taken over by leftists, and they hate white people, so we clearly don't have an ethnic home of our own. Also the Jews get to blabber on about being "gods chosen people" and all that ancient superstition crap, so why isn't a little white supremacy equally tolerated? The NRX people on the far right have a particularly weird outlook on Jews, such that letting them take over culture by writing your sitcoms and news articles is an invasion that must be taken care of like any military psyop invasion, but letting Jews design your nuclear weapons is the nicest thing ever, essentially living here is fine but trying to take over and remake culture in an image of Israel is completely unacceptable, or rephrased again, Israel on the other side of the planet is literally not on my radar, but Israel on my TV is a big problem. From the point of view of the far right people, wanting to visit Israel on the other side of the planet is not the slightest problem at all, but trying to turn the USA into something like "West Israel" is a huge problem to fight against. You see this in the attacks the far right make on Jews, its always against journalist/politician despicable sex criminals, not exactly kristallnacht against the little old accountant down the street like the Germans did decades ago, the moderns have a completely different strategy and outlook and opinion. In stark comparison, the antifa as a general rule side with the Palestinians, and they're the ones who want the Jews dead. More people on the far left want to nuke Israel than on the far right, yet the propaganda is reversed, because there's a lot of Jews in the more moderate left, think of almost all of the communists from the last century, for example. For another example essentially the Democratic party is now Jews, cat ladies, handful of remaining cucks, some FDR-era-elderly, and minorities, therefore the right must by definition be "anti-Jew" which is probably correct WRT normie moderate less-political people (especially after the mostly Jewish neocon movement temporarily screwed over the Republicans until Trump uncucked the R party, mostly). Claiming the far right wants Jews dead for existing is simply ridiculous.
The claim about euthanasia combines the above, where the modern right doesn't care at all, with a different problem. Lets say an enemy of the USA invaded and took over and got to write the history books. You get one guess how the previous regime's euthanasia programs would be portrayed. Naturally, a doctor not restricting the respiratory system impairing pain killers for a terminally ill cancer patient a couple of times, is going to get rewritten in the history books as a former USA fedral government presidentially endorsed policy of bayoneting millions of crippled children. Its just how propaganda works. What do you think, they're going to be honest, LOL? That mixes with outright lying about modern views to make slander that's unrecognizable from reality.
This problem of fake names, is why libel and slander laws were seen as necessary for a functioning democracy. It would be interesting to implement those again, would probably help the level of discourse quite a bit. Of course you'd have to arrest like everyone at CNN and MSNBC and numerous newspapers... the left controls most mass media and those media outlets are mere D party propaganda departments as has been proven numerous times in email leaks and so forth. How do you have a functioning democracy in a one party totalitarian authoritarian rule, is a mystery.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 19 2017, @03:02PM
How do you spew such crazy shit when reality is evident for everyone to see? One party in control? You've got some of the worst republicans gutting taxes for you yet you complain? You're insane VLM, your brain is malfunctioning, you have issues, need therapy and probably medication. Seek help.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 19 2017, @04:37PM (8 children)
Hey, hey! I JUST got J-Mo off the damn cross and now YOU climb up on it? Shoo, shoo, winter's coming and we need to burn that timber! Take your delusional skull-vomit elsewhere.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday October 19 2017, @07:02PM (7 children)
Can I take the ranting and personal attacks as evidence I'm factually correct? Just felt like asking, LOL. Can't unswallow the red pill of course.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 19 2017, @07:49PM (6 children)
No, you can take it as evidence that you're wrong, since in this case the ranting is factually correct and the personal attacks are well-deserved. But do go on; I know how your kind works. You learn nothing until the flames of Hell burn away your dross.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday October 19 2017, @08:21PM (5 children)
More global warming alarmism; tired.
Have a nice day!
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday October 20 2017, @03:35AM (4 children)
No, sweetie, it's YOUR world that'll be unbearably hot. Try reading for comprehension sometime. I know that's a crime in your culture, but do it for me?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Troll) by VLM on Friday October 20 2017, @01:13PM (3 children)
Humor is wasted on the left.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday October 20 2017, @04:27PM (2 children)
You aren't funny, though. I've been to funerals that were funnier than you. Free hint 'cause I'm in a generous mood: saying something sociopathic and then walking it back with "jeez, it was just a joke" doesn't work. You don't fool anyone but yourself.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 22 2017, @05:59AM (1 child)
Sociopathic jokes are still easier on the ears than constant harpy keening.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday October 22 2017, @03:00PM
Cry some more :) Tone trolling, like false patriotism, is the last refuge of the scoundrel. But since you like my voice so much (I'm an alto, not a screeching soprano, that's my sister) I'll make sure to talk riiiiight into your ear next time!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday October 20 2017, @03:46PM (1 child)
...so your logic is, essentially: "Two wrongs DO make a right"?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 22 2017, @06:04AM
So you're saying that using freedom of association to create a place that turns out to be a home state for the ethnic Yahudym is a wrong?
Or are you the enlightened soul who has opened up his home and hearth to all and currently has half a dozen drifters sleeping in your living room?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by arcz on Thursday October 19 2017, @06:49PM (2 children)
When people say that violence is an ethical response to prevent a conjectured, speculative future, my answer to that is that you've been fundamentally corrupted.
Violence is never an acceptable response based on mere speculation. Furthermore, history shows us that ideas that "need suppression" are often correct. Incorrect ideas usually do not spread widely. The doctrine of counter speech is useful here, not violence.
The anonymous coward above me appears to be a terrorist-sympathizer and/or shill.
(Score: 2, Troll) by http on Friday October 20 2017, @06:11PM (1 child)
It's not "mere speculation". It's an easily acquired sense of history.
I've said it before [soylentnews.org], but it bears repeating, that the communication patterns prior to genocide, and various other hate crimes, follow a consistent pattern. It's not mystic prophecy to see it happening and make predictions.
And reading the news today, it turns out that AC was 100% correct, because guess what! After the Spencer talk, these assholes thought would be just peachy to fire a gun at a crowd [nbc-2.com] that they viewed as "not like us". And in a not at all surprising move, the shooter openly espouses the racist beliefs at the heart of american white supremacy in an interview. [washingtonpost.com] With the Washington Post. Not exactly shooting the shit over beer and barbeque. His lawyer must be facepalming so hard he's sniffing his elbow.
Still think counter-speech alone is useful against those who are intent on normalizing the murder of "not like us"?
I browse at -1 when I have mod points. It's unsettling.
(Score: 2) by arcz on Monday October 30 2017, @09:35PM
You honestly think that it's better to go after the speaker than the people who react violently?
He isn't responsible for people who act violently. Especially if he doesn't suggest violence.