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BBC:
Electric black taxis have hit London's roads under plans to improve air quality but critics say their cost will put drivers off "going green".
The cab costs £55,599 up from £45,000 for the newest petrol equivalent.
Chris Gubbey, boss of manufacturer the London Electric Vehicle Company (LEVC) insists the cab will "play a major role in helping to improve air quality".
The launch comes weeks ahead of rules requiring new cabs in the capital to be capable of emitting zero emissions.
More than 9,000 such taxis, roughly half the current black cab fleet, are expected on London's roads by 2021.
The £10K price difference should break even in two years of savings on fuel, less if maintenance costs are factored in. But will that make up for lost revenue from fares the cabs can't accept while recharging?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by DannyB on Tuesday December 05 2017, @09:25PM (18 children)
One way to make the higher cost of EVs not seem so high is to burden the cost of both fossil fuel vehicles and EVs with the costs associated with the environmental problems they cause. Suddenly the cost might not seem so great. Not that EVs don't have their own environmental footprint as well. But if what I suggest is "fair" then if the EV cost is still higher, that would be surprising and telling.
Hey, how about build the costs of disposal / recycling into EVERYTHING. That way, right up front, you're paying for the full cost of the item, not just it's manufacture. But the end of life as well. It might also do away with the disposable culture of non-repairable items.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 05 2017, @09:30PM (5 children)
Hey great idea. You'll do away with your own business as all your competitors undercut your prices. Buh-bye now.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday December 05 2017, @10:04PM (3 children)
Those costs still get paid. They simply need to be shifted to where they belong.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 05 2017, @11:16PM (2 children)
Do you have any idea how retail prices work?
"Buy Now! Pay Later! LOW PRICES Every Day!!"
Do you ever shop? Do you have all your groceries delivered by drone? Are you too rich for coupons? Do you never buy at discount stores with the dirty plebs?
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Wednesday December 06 2017, @12:05AM
Do you ever shop?
On Amazon
Do you have all your groceries delivered by drone?
No, by a man in a van
I rarely go to a supermarket, certainly not to one of those "discount" ones that don't seem to stock actual products like bread or milk, just a bulk-buy of 12 toilet seats for the price of 10 or whatever.
(Score: 1) by toddestan on Saturday December 09 2017, @04:17PM
Which is why such schemes typically involve laws that saying the manufacturer (or often the retailer) has take the item back for proper disposal, for free. The laws don't say the cost needs to be paid up front, but since that's the only chance they get to charge for the disposal, most of them kind of figure it out on their own.
Don't get out much, do you?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by meustrus on Tuesday December 05 2017, @11:37PM
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by MostCynical on Tuesday December 05 2017, @09:50PM (5 children)
Capitalism (and, indeed, "Western society") relies on "pass-on" costs. Someone *else* sweeps the path, someone *else* collects the garbage, someone *else* deals with the landfill/buried contaminants/whatever.
Ship the crap to India or China, let the stuff float out to sea, leave it under the house to become the next owner's problem...
And, in a weird reversal of normal regulations and laws, *don't* think of the children.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DannyB on Tuesday December 05 2017, @10:04PM (2 children)
I find it amusing how we treat the ocean as a toilet, a dumping ground, and a pantry.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 05 2017, @11:28PM (1 child)
You know how you inhale and exhale through the same nostrils? You're literally breathing in carbon dioxide waste products from your own lungs.
Your lack of comprehension of the interaction between biology and environment is shockingly naive.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday December 06 2017, @04:24PM
Perhaps you are unaware of what we are doing to the planet.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 3, Informative) by frojack on Wednesday December 06 2017, @12:24AM (1 child)
And of course these problems don't exist in socialist/communist or "Eastern" society do they....
The worst polluters in the world are not Capitalists. Or Western.
https://www.treehugger.com/ocean-conservation/these-10-rivers-appear-be-source-millions-tons-ocean-plastic.html [treehugger.com]
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-least-toxic-countries-pollution-environment-2017-2/#-1 [businessinsider.com]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/most-polluted-countries/ [telegraph.co.uk]
The waste management is all handled by Politburos and party executives, right?
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/12/growing-russia-biggest-rubbish-dump-161216110437273.html [aljazeera.com]
https://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/9538-The-secret-lives-of-urban-waste-pickers [chinadialogue.net]
https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-16/here-s-why-so-many-elderly-chinese-are-collecting-trash [pri.org]
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by MostCynical on Wednesday December 06 2017, @12:53AM
no, but no one (on here, anyway) claims "communism will fix it". In some of those countries you cite, the impact is *because* of western money - wesertn nations have paid those countries to be the cess pits they have become.
Many suggest that 'capitalism' and/or 'the free market' will fix everything - which is patently not true.
Also, most (almost all?) of the people on this board seem to be from western/English/American speaking countries.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Immerman on Tuesday December 05 2017, @09:54PM (2 children)
One convenient way would be to make the fuel itself carry the cost - after all the car itself isn't the problem, it's the fuel its using. That's the principle behind a carbon tax. It has the benefit of also extending along the full supply chain, including sourcing the electricity for your EV.
Of course the flip side is that purchases are very often made based purely on sticker price, ignoring ownership costs - hence the fact that many people continue to buy super-cheap incandescent bulbs despite the fact that CFL or LED replacements will pay for themselves many times over within a year in saved energy costs.
Building the recycling/disposal costs into products sounds great - but in practice you probably need to build an even higher cost in, so that consumers can get a big enough "proper disposal rebate" to motivate them to do so. Recycling most things is already approximately free, even slightly profitable, in most cities in the US - and yet landfills continue to fill with recyclable materials.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday December 05 2017, @10:06PM
I like.
While I have total mastery over a few subjects,
Trump shows complete mystery over a lot of subjects!
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Tuesday December 05 2017, @11:58PM
We do this in the UK -- fuel prices for "regular" unleaded petrol is currently about £1.20 a litre, or about $6 per US Gallon. I believe current US prices are about $2.50.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday December 06 2017, @12:05AM (1 child)
Why? What would that solve? Its a serious question. You haven't thought through the economics here.
You would propose then to pay the highest price possible for disposal/recycle, well in excess of the actual cost of such services (because technology will bring the cost down in the meantime, and the price of recovered materials is only going to rise over time).
Everything except the puke smell in a Taxi is recyclable. Especially the batteries, which can be "mined" for all sorts of metals, the motors may need new bearings and brushes (are those even used?) to be ready for re-use or recycled for the metal.
Toyota already has in place a blanket $200 offer on the worst condition battery packs for old Prius cars. Problem is, the damn things just won't die. And even after they leave auto service they find their way into energy storage use that is less demanding. Because of position in the car, Prius batteries usually survive crashes. Its the Least often replaced part on a Prius, and you never have to buy at factory price because scrap yards will sell them to you for half or a third of that price.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Grishnakh on Wednesday December 06 2017, @03:55PM
the motors may need new bearings and brushes (are those even used?)
No, of course not. No one uses brushed motors for anything these days. Even consumer-grade cordless power tools at Home Depot are advertising brushless motors right on the package. Brushed motors are completely obsolete thanks to high-density and inexpensive power electronics: it just doesn't cost much to make a BLDC motor controller. Even simple little fans in your PC use brushless motors.
Toyota already has in place a blanket $200 offer on the worst condition battery packs for old Prius cars. Problem is, the damn things just won't die.
They do die: individual cells go bad over time, or (this might be only on older units) they have corrosion problems with some of the connections. But there's YouTube videos showing how to rebuild your Prius batteries, so I imagine there's specialists out there who buy up the bad (or partial-capacity) battery packs and rebuild them for resale, since brand-new ones from the manufacturer cost an absolute fortune.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 06 2017, @10:22AM
Here in Switzerland, a small disposal fee is by law built into the price of any new domestic electronic apparatus.
When you have finished with your old computer/radio/steam iron you can just take it back to ANY electronics shop and they are obliged to dispose of it for you, gratis (as the disposal fee was already paid up front when you bought it all those years ago).