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Submitted via IRC for AndyTheAbsurd
After more than a decade of work, government researchers in the U.S. are ready to test an unusual birth control method for men—a topical gel that could prevent the production of sperm.
And no, gentlemen, you don't rub it on your genitals.
The clinical trial, which begins in April and will run for about four years, will be the largest effort in the U.S. to test a hormonal form of birth control for men.
[...] The new gel contains two synthetic hormones, progestin and testosterone. Progestin blocks the testes from making enough testosterone to produce normal levels of sperm. The replacement testosterone is needed to counteract the hormone imbalances the progestin causes but won't make the body produce sperm.
[...] The gel can suppress sperm levels for about 72 hours, so if men forget a dose, "there is a bit of forgiveness," says Régine Sitruk-Ware, distinguished scientist at the Population Council, a nonprofit for reproductive health that is sponsoring the trial alongside the NIH.
[...] Even if the trial is successful, Blithe says it will likely be several years before the gel would be available to the public.
Source: A Contraceptive Gel for Men Is About to Go on Trial (archive)
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Thursday December 21 2017, @06:59AM (4 children)
Rub this stuff into my gums whilst doing my daily dental routine, wife says she's preggers, and BOOM! proof she's cheating.
I came. I saw. I forgot why I came.
(Score: 4, Funny) by takyon on Thursday December 21 2017, @07:11AM
And then... [mauryshow.com]
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(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 21 2017, @07:52AM (2 children)
No problem, you still get ordered to pay child support.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday December 21 2017, @02:48PM (1 child)
It seems like a DNA paternity test would be in odor.
The Electoral College voting is an affirmative action program for low populated states.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 21 2017, @03:50PM
Yeah, finding out your wife is cheating on you that way really stinks.
(Score: 5, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday December 21 2017, @10:42AM
Teenaged boys throughout the world have known for quite a while that liberal application of ordinary hand lotion works quite effectively as a contraceptive. Above and beyond that, it also saves you money and keeps you from having to ever watch a romantic comedy.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by looorg on Thursday December 21 2017, @11:37AM (13 children)
Rubbing it on your genitals might have had an adverse side effect to the sexytimes. So I guess they would have had to make it applicable else where.
Ah so it's like gambling. Or how when women say they are on the pill but are not, sure babe I rubbed in the the gel everyday ... but didn't. All about Trust.
Is it really about equality? I thought this was more about not having to pay for child support for something you didn't want. But then on the other hand from the test setting this seems more like something they want couples to use and not something you just rub on before you go out on the town to drag home whatever 3-am-bar-skank you can find.
Is there some study that suggest that men are more forgetful then women? Is it that women are just trained to take the pill every day so they become better at it?
That all said and done I do wonder if there are any long term side effects with this. Nobody is going to want to rub this one in if it turns out that you get hormonal issues afterwards. It will be dead in the water then.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Aiwendil on Thursday December 21 2017, @12:04PM (2 children)
Matter of training*, routine, and that the sideeffects of an emergency-contraceptive-pill makes the sideeffects of normal contraceptive pills seem downright enjoyable. Also it is the entire lingering thing that it is "the girls responsibility to deal with it" which means the pill is the easier way.
Do people not discuss this with their female friends?
* = Take a look at sex-ed, the girls' basically is "this is how your body will be fscked up and you forget the pill and allow him in without a condom" while the boy's is "this is how to use a condom, and a child is about as expensive as a porsche car [but we'll never tell you how much such a car costs]"
However, if you want men to remember it - develop it combined with shaving cream, it is easier to hijack a routine than to establish a new one.
(Score: 2) by unauthorized on Thursday December 21 2017, @07:43PM (1 child)
Well it should be. If I engage in a dangerous enterprise with you - let's say a free range lion ranch - and we agree that you will be the one running the books while I would be the one working with the kitties, then why should you have any responsibility for my safety? Suppose somewhere down the line, I happen to injure myself because lions are just dangerous, or worse, because I didn't take proper safety measures by deceiving you. Are you liable for my injury?
If one has the right to do something, they should also bear full responsibility for doing it. If you demand that we don't hold women accountable for their decisions, then you are demanding that we should treat them like children or the mentally incapable.
(Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Thursday December 21 2017, @10:45PM
My views are so far outside the normal box I'd need to write a book to properly convey them - but let's just say that system would end unwanted pregnancies and solve the issue of looming overpopulation as well.
To answer the rhetorics:
I should have some share in the responsibilities in so far as helping to make sure proper safety gear and training is available and also make sure my first aid training is up to date - especially if I'm the one handling the books.
But to answer the question instead of the rhetorics:
It should only be the girls' responsibility as long as they lie about contraceptives - other than that use a friggin' condom and refuse sex otherwise. In the case of a non-lie snafu then it should be a shared responsibility.
(And to preempt, obligation and responsibility are different things)
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Thursday December 21 2017, @12:28PM (1 child)
Trust but verify? Just get that sperm count checked before every intercourse.
It would take a real scoundrel to pull that. The woman does bare the immediate burden of carrying a child, but the man has to face the cold reality of child support unless he pulls a disappearing act, which is difficult for most people. Given the imbalance there, he might need some crazier motive to overcome that, like a strong desire to impregnate (claim) as many women as possible no matter what the consequences.
Most of the birth control options for women are damaging to their health:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/health/birth-control-breast-cancer-hormones.html [nytimes.com]
So now men can get in on that hotness by taking hormones.
The test setting is just the current setting. Once it gets out into the real world, skank seekers will get a taste of it.
Wouldn't read too much into that. The bottom line is that women sometimes forget to take the pill, and men will certainly sometimes forget to use the gel.
The gel's formula adds testosterone to counteract the effects of progestin which reduces testosterone. While that might sound like a good thing, it just proves that there is a balancing act that could easily fuck you up with hormonal issues (remember that the article concedes that you will be making less T after using the gel). And as you will see from the spoiler link above, there is a better way that does not involve hormones.
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(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday December 21 2017, @11:02PM
Like in: 'wank and count' as an interlude? Too kinky, not for me.
Kinky again. My experience says the woman will bare her genitals before having sex (at least). But, yeah, whatever floats your boat, I s'ppose.
(grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 21 2017, @01:46PM (3 children)
A better choice of words would be "Men would like to be able to regulate their own virility." Women may or may not be fertile - men generally are not. The gender benders still haven't figured that one out.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday December 21 2017, @05:08PM (2 children)
https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=17/11/06/0127241 [soylentnews.org] https://www.sciencealert.com/two-dad-babies-could-soon-be-a-reality [sciencealert.com] => 2 men could have a child *This hurts my brain* Ethical/Not Ethical? Weird? What if it's safer? Could we have Surrogate robots? Would that be better or worse than a "normal" Surrogacy? *Yep, brain still hurts*
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday December 21 2017, @05:23PM
Yeah - even if they get things all worked out, they'll still be odd balls. Can't wait to see what kind of crazy wild complications they experience!
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday December 21 2017, @06:16PM
It would be interesting to see if artificial wombs are developed and proven to be *safer* than human wombs (when properly manufactured/etc.). Just look at this story:
How Racism May Cause Black Mothers To Suffer The Death Of Their Infants [npr.org]
Various, hard-to-quantify external factors like racism-induced stress could lead to premature birth. Miscarriage [wikipedia.org] has a huge list of potential risk factors. We could eliminate the uncertainty by using artificial wombs, and that could benefit women tremendously. But it also probably means that 2 Dads could have a genetic child (male or female) and bring it to term, without the involvement of a woman or possible legal ramifications of using a female surrogate (varies by country).
Suddenly, the "sacred feminine" is no longer sacred. It's industrialized. Like a factory that makes canned beans or yogurt. No more mystery, just a process.
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(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday December 21 2017, @02:54PM (2 children)
Apply the gel as part of some other routine that you simply WILL NOT forget. Like sex or jerking time every day. Or, if you already take any other regular daily medication, simply make it part of that. Or part of the morning shower, drugs, brush teeth, inject caffeine, etc ritual.
The Electoral College voting is an affirmative action program for low populated states.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 22 2017, @02:39AM (1 child)
I was thinking along similar lines.
WRT the "trust by verify" thing, -she- applies the gel to him.
I note that the effects on a gal's physiology of doing this (without gloves) would be a data point worth knowing.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday December 22 2017, @02:46PM
Excellent Observation. Those hormones might have undesirable effects on a female.
The Electoral College voting is an affirmative action program for low populated states.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 22 2017, @03:59AM
I wonder how much of the drug is excreted unchanged from the body and into the water supply?
The West already has a problem with antidepressants and birth control being found in drinking water.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by lentilla on Thursday December 21 2017, @11:45AM (6 children)
I have long believed that a male contraceptive would be a fundamental milestone in gender equality - book-ending the journey that began in the 1960's with the [female] "pill". I can only wish this breakthrough results in a safe and effective product. It would be a very great boon to society and a leap forward in equalising the inter-relationships between men and women the world over.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by takyon on Thursday December 21 2017, @12:08PM
Read your subject as "bullshit" for a brief moment. Hormones must be killing my mood. Like the ones in this
pillgel.I think the reversible injectable polymer gel [bloomberg.com] is a saner approach, assuming it is *repeatably* proven to be safe and effective.
TFA describes this topical gel as more effective than hormone shots [sciencealert.com], and it includes testosterone to counter the effect of the blocked testosterone. So you are still monkeying around with hormone levels, which I think we know is a bad idea by now (cue "just give me the testosterone in a gel, doc!").
A single, reversible injection that is as effective as condoms (with effectiveness rising as you add in other forms of birth control) and allows you to swing your dick around willy-nilly, or a patented gel you'll have to pay Big Pharma for and apply daily. Let's give India a chance.
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(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 21 2017, @03:55PM (4 children)
If we want gender equity, the place to start would be to stop forcing men to pay for babies they don't want. We don't make women have children they don't want, so why on Earth should men be forced to pay even when the baby was over their objections?
This stuff is a good thing, but I wouldn't trust it unless I didn't want kids at all or already had at least one. This took a long time in coming because it's a much more complicated problem than it was for women and I wouldn't trust it not to make men sterile without a lot more testing and actual use by real men outside of research studies.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 21 2017, @06:11PM
One funny exchange I saw at the local college was between one of those modern "feminists," an older feminist from the second wave, and a conservative lady.
The modern one was literally arguing that men should literally have to sign contracts before having sex with a woman.
2nd wave, calling back to an earlier point in the discussion about reproduction rights, asked if that contract could include a provision where the woman waives all rights to support for the father if they accidentally have a child.
The modern one said that shouldn't be allowed because "they need to have consequences to their decision."
But 2nd wave replied with the fact that contraception fails, so not all pregnancies are the result of not using them and that women have multiple chances to get out of such a failure, including safe-haven abandonment after birth, purposeful failure to identify the father and abortion, and unilateral adoption. Why shouldn't men have the right to do the equivalent of abandonment and after-the-fact abortion, at least in terms of contact with the child and money.
Modern rebuts with the fact that doing so allows hurts the fetus, you are taking away its right to financial support to the father.
Conservative jumps in immediately with, "Well, since you believe the child has rights, then I guess you are also anti-abortion then? Wouldn't want to take away the poor thing's right to life."
Modern one gets a priceless look on her face.
In fairness, she then attempted to explain the body autonomy argument and the difference the decision to carry it to term makes, but had to be saved by 2nd wave feminist.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday December 21 2017, @07:25PM (2 children)
If we want gender equity, the place to start would be to stop forcing men to pay for babies they don't want. We don't make women have children they don't want...
We don't make men have children they don't want since that's impossible.
We do, however, make women pay for babies they don't want just like men. [fivethirtyeight.com]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday December 21 2017, @08:48PM (1 child)
1. GP said "have" not "pay for". Women can usually choose to have an abortion. Men can't usually force women to have an abortion. I put "usually" there because they could use coercion tactics. But if they aren't convincing/threatening enough and they aren't going to commit a crime, then the woman ultimately has the power to choose (unless state/federal abortion restrictions kick in).
2. The 538 article says:
So in practice, mothers are going to be awarded custody 4.5-to-1, and mothers are awarded child support 8.2-to-1, but since they pay a bit less, that's where the 9-to-1 figure comes in.
It's hardly equitable for the men, at least in the sense that if they get involved in a custody battle, the odds are stacked against them. Anecdotally I would say that women have to fuck up really badly in order to be denied custody if they want it. Think: hard drugs and prison, while the father is squeaky clean.
3. "We don't make men have children they don't want since that's impossible."
Ignoring redefinition/edge cases like transgender male pregnancy or the possibility of male uterine transplants [wikipedia.org] (unlikely to be realized due to a combination of ethics concerns and relative difficulty), we may see a situation in the future where a man+woman or man+man or man+nobody/database creates an embryo artificially or synthetically and gestates it in an artificial womb.
Since the artificial womb isn't part of anybody's body, will abortion be legal under any circumstances (other than medical)? Maybe not. In that case, once you press play, you have to go all the way. Which would be comparable to a normal couple having sex with the intention of having a child, but then one or both of the partners deciding against wanting the child at a later point during the pregnancy. This point of mine is really just nitpicking/speculation, but I thought I would mention it.
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(Score: 4, Informative) by Magic Oddball on Friday December 22 2017, @12:24AM
Only if they can afford the cost, can get the time off from work to travel far enough to reach a clinic/hospital that offers abortions** and have someone to look after their existing kids (most abortions being performed on mothers) during the trip & while the pills do their thing (if they use that form).
**Back in 2014, before many states added laws & regulations that closed a lot of providers, many women had to travel 30 - 180+ miles [shinyapps.io] for one. That doesn't take into account teenagers in states that require parental permission, which could cause some girls to travel much farther to reach a clinic/hospital in a state that doesn't require it (e.g. if the girl fled an abusive home).
As they say, anecdotes are not data. ;-) I looked it up, and it turns out that child custody only goes to trial
4% of the time, with 1.5% completing the process [liveabout.com] — 51% of the time, both the mother & father already agreed on custody arrangements, 29% of the time they handled it without involving a third party, and 11% sorted it out with a mediator. The rare times that custody disputes do reach the court system, the arrangement hinges on which parent has been the primary caregiver and which has the strongest bond with the kid [divorcenet.com] along with individual circumstances. Most states no longer honor the old idea that the child should automatically be with the mother, and some states have actively outlawed that approach.
(Score: 1) by Gault.Drakkor on Saturday December 23 2017, @01:16AM
And yet this one that has been around for a few years and isn 't happening. ~98% reliable, lasts years, reversible, inexpensive, minimal to no side affects.
https://www.wired.com/2011/04/ff_vasectomy/ [wired.com]
https://www.thecut.com/2017/04/male-birth-control-injection-risug-may-soon-be-available.html [thecut.com]