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posted by Fnord666 on Saturday January 20 2018, @10:26PM   Printer-friendly
from the eat-the-rich dept.

Donald Trump and Angela Merkel will join 2,500 world leaders, business executives and charity bosses at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, Switzerland which kicks off on 23 January. High on the agenda once again will be the topic of inequality, and how to reduce the widening gap between the rich and the rest around the world.

The WEF recently warned that the global economy is at risk of another crisis, and that automation and digitalisation are likely to suppress employment and wages for most while boosting wealth at the very top.

But what ideas should the great and good gathered in the Swiss Alps be putting into action? We'd like to know what single step you think governments should prioritise in order to best address the problem of rising inequality. Below we've outlined seven proposals that are most often championed as necessary to tackle the issue – but which of them is most important to you?

  • Provide free and high quality education
  • Raise the minimum wage
  • Raise taxes on the rich
  • Fight corruption
  • Provide more social protection for the poor
  • Stop the influence of the rich on politicians
  • Provide jobs for the unemployed

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2018/jan/19/project-davos-whats-the-single-best-way-to-close-the-worlds-wealth-gap

Do you think these ideas are enough, or are there any better ideas to close this wealth gap ? You too can participate and vote for the idea that, you think, works best.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:05AM (15 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:05AM (#625500) Journal

    You really don't get it, do you? He's not intelligent outside of a couple of narrow domains, his "education" apparently didn't stick, and his success, while real, is both small and vulnerable to the same market forces as the rest of us. It can all be taken away in an instant, through no fault of his own.

    Tell me, if that happens, say his business is destroyed by a fire and he gets sick and ends up on welfare or disability...is he suddenly any more or less intelligent? Has anything about him changed? No. But I guaran-god-damn-tee you society will consider him useless trash then.

    Again: price of everything, value of nothing. There is more to life than dollar signs.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:11AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:11AM (#625501)

    ^ the "being human" aspect that we, as naturally quite selfish creatures, often are bad at realizing extends beyond the situations we have personally encountered. These are the concepts that we learned through the evolution of our societies, and they are quite evidently similar across world cultures. Capitalism and Natural Selection have resulted in some warped mindsets that glorify greed and hurt the larger community.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by bzipitidoo on Sunday January 21 2018, @07:17AM (3 children)

    by bzipitidoo (4388) on Sunday January 21 2018, @07:17AM (#625549) Journal

    I've noticed a topic like this brings out very loud flapping from the right wingers. They seem to know they're in the minority and are trying to compensate by being louder, and damn the facts. Rant and rave about fake problems, cherry pick data, and employ pretty much every fallacy there is, such as "trickle down", to try to justify their otherwise unjustifiable positions.

    There's plenty of evidence that the US is too harsh and unfair, and that this costs us all. I mean, holy smokes, what does it cost to raise a child? 12 years of education is surely over $100k per child. And we're going to throw that educational investment away because we suddenly cheap out on health care? What kind of idiot does that? Rich idiots who inherited more wealth than can be spent in 10 lifetimes and didn't have to do a day of work in their lives, that's who. They're the sort of people who can just shrug off massive losses. Ranchers care more about their cattle and give them better health care than Republicans give our children.

    Yes, there is a large wealth gap-- few understand just how ridiculously large the gap is-- and yes, it hurts us all. It would help immensely to stop mindlessly worshipping wealth. Many Americans seem to have Prosperity Gospel thinking burned into their brains, way too readily accept the mental shortcut that wealth is a good measure of virtue, intelligence, competence, and divine favor therefrom. Too many respect President Trump and Wall Street for that reason alone.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday January 22 2018, @07:12PM (2 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday January 22 2018, @07:12PM (#626189)

      To me, the real wealth gap starts at the discretionary income level.

      So many Americans live from paycheck to paycheck, they've got what they've got, but they have no savings or spare money at all. Some of this they do to themselves with new cars and bad financing decisions, but even if they were to "smarten up," there's not very much discretionary income left after you pay taxes, housing, healthcare, food, utilities, etc.

      If you reach down into the poverty level, arguably they have zero discretionary income, and the rich are infinitely more wealthy than they are. Even at "middle class," discretionary income is amazingly small - if people save for retirement and their children's college, etc. there's not much left over. Then, as you start to enter the top 20 percent or so, discretionary income explodes - money just so you can make more money with it, real-estate investments, stocks, bonds, not just as a 401(k), but piles and piles of money that can do things like buy political favors, and what is the most commonly purchased political favor? A way for the purchaser to make even more money, I mean, why bother to buy a politician unless there's a profit in it, right?

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 22 2018, @10:03PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 22 2018, @10:03PM (#626261)

        Agreed. I have a decent salary and it is taking years to come close to even a home down payment! My dog getting a broken leg was the only massive unexpected cost. Throw in some kids and I wouldn't be able to save anything almost guaranteed.

        The idea that most people are just idiots who do not know how to save is one of the worst ideas pushed by the People's Republic of Personal Responsibility. Do people make bad decisions? Yes. Is that the primary cause of our social ills? No.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday January 23 2018, @12:05AM

        by bzipitidoo (4388) on Tuesday January 23 2018, @12:05AM (#626347) Journal

        "A fool and his money are soon parted", but America labors especially hard to trick and trap people into losing their money. One factor that encourages reckless spending is the sense that rapacious forces will take whatever money you didn't spend fast enough.

        Like, all those fees with which banks ding their customers, predatory law enforcement of which Civil Asset Forfeiture is its purest form, and if you thought a 20% to 30% annual interest rate that many credit cards levy was exorbitant, how about the 10x worse rates which payday loan sharks and pawn shops charge? That's right, I've seen 240% annual interest charged on the money received for pawning an item, and hear of other jurisdictions that have 300% or even higher rates. There's the insane medical pricing system prevalent in the US, ready and waiting to clean out your savings should you be so unfortunate as to suffer an injury that requires medical care. Insurers are so bad that often the claims department is cynically called the claims prevention department, and the only option to get them to pay a perfectly legit claim is to sue. Most of the time the threat of a lawsuit is enough, but not always. Naturally, the lawyers love that. Debt collectors are unscrupulous scum who don't give a crap whether a debt is legit, and will keep harassing as long as they can. Speaking of debt, the whole idea of student loans has perverted higher education into a means of extracting wealth from the age bracket who has the least, for the simple crime of being too young. Then there are employers who cheat their workers of pay, press them to work off the clock, or drag their feet and slide further and further behind in paying their employees on time and then go bankrupt when they owe everyone more than a month of pay. The Intellectual Property rent seeking thieves cheekily call all of us thieves as part of their audacious propaganda campaign that for decades now has been trying to equate copying with stealing, and way too many people fall for it. And certainly not least, let's not forget Too Big To Fail financial businesses.

        Marketing is adept at selling people products that they would be better off without, drumming up fake needs for which a useless product happens to be the answer. The worst are the ones that play upon our instincts, such as lawn care. I keep hoping this fad that decrees women must shave off all their body hair would just die. It's costly and unhealthy. Sugary drinks are another-- we are hardwired to crave sugar. We also have way too much artificial lighting. Baby toys are yet another. Babies will very happily play with empty milk jugs and cardboard boxes, no need to blow a fortune on stupid scam toys that dangle the hope that they might be able to turn your child into the next Einstein. You might think that's too bad, and it should be "buyer beware", but the deception is many layers deep and few penetrate all the way.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @09:27AM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21 2018, @09:27AM (#625582)

    say his business is destroyed by a fire and he gets sick and ends up on welfare or disability

    Now might be an apt time to mention that Ayn Rand died while on Medicare and Social Security.

    Next time you encounter a Randian, be sure to mention this early and often in the conversation.

    -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by khallow on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:10PM (7 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:10PM (#625652) Journal

      Now might be an apt time to mention that Ayn Rand died while on Medicare and Social Security.

      Because that is relevant how? This is a classic case of whataboutism or appeal to hypocrisy. Ayn Rand is a hypocrite therefore we don't have to think about her ideas. What is missed in such an insipid observation is that Ayn Rand tried to avoid being on Medicare and Social Security. From here [openculture.com], we have:

      One problem with Rand’s reasoning is this: whether “parasite” or titan of industry, none of us is anything more than human, subject to the same kinds of cruel twists of fate, the same existential uncertainty, the same illness and disease. Suffering may be unequally distributed to a great degree by human agen you, but nature and circumstance often have a way of evening the odds. Rand herself experienced such a leveling effect in her retirement. After undergoing surgery in 1974 for lung cancer caused by her heavy smoking, she found herself in straitened circumstances.

      Two years later, she was paired with social worker Evva Pryor, who gave an interview in 1998 about their relationship. “Rarely have I respected someone as much as I did Ayn Rand,” said Pryor. When asked about their philosophical disagreements, she replied, “My background was social work. That should tell you all you need to know about our differences.” Pryor was tasked with persuading Rand to accept Social Security and Medicare to help with mounting medical expenses.

      I had read enough to know that she despised government interference, and that she felt that people should and could live independently. She was coming to a point in her life where she was going to receive the very thing she didn’t like.... For me to do my job, she had to recognize that there were exceptions to her theory.... She had to see that there was such a thing as greed in this world.... She could be totally wiped out by medical bills if she didn’t watch it. Since she had worked her entire life and had paid into Social Security, she had a right to it. She didn’t feel that an individual should take help.

      Finally, Rand relented. “Whether she agreed or not is not the issue,” said Pryor, “She saw the necessity for both her and [her husband] Frank.” Or as Weiss puts it, “Reality had intruded upon her ideological pipedreams.” That's one way of interpreting the contradiction: that Rand’s philosophy, Objectivism, “has no practical purpose except to promote the economic interests of the people bankrolling it"---the sole function of her thought is to justify wealth, explain away poverty, and normalize the sort of Hobbesian war of all against all Rand saw as a societal ideal.

      Rand taught “there is no such thing as the public interest,” that programs like Social Security and Medicare steal from “creators” and illegitimately redistribute their wealth. This was a "sublimely enticing argument for wealthy businessmen who had no interest whatever in the public interest.... Yet the taxpayers of America paid Rand's and Frank O'Connor's medical expenses." Randians have offered many convoluted explanations for what her critics see as sheer hypocrisy. We may or may not find them persuasive.

      Let us note at this point, that Rand was born in 1905. So when she was persuaded to Social Security and Medicare around 1976, she had already voluntarily relinquished a considerable portion of the money that she could have obtained from the two programs (somewhere in excess of five years of Social Security and perhaps two years of medical bills from the lung cancer). Keep in mind she only lived till 1982.

      Nor do we see how well she would have done in the absence of such programs. After all, if she didn't have to pay into Social Security, maybe she and her husband would had enough retirement money to cover her final years.

      This is typical of the mean streak directed toward libertarian philosophies. Sure, the ideology is somewhat unrealistic, but it doesn't deserve this sort of contempt. Here someone tried hard to live by their ideals and succeeded to a considerable degree. Yet all we hear about is about the deathbed confession.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 22 2018, @10:10PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 22 2018, @10:10PM (#626265)

        Yes actually it does deserve contempt, the libertarian philosophy has become mired down in naivety and claims to base itself in reality which is just beyond not true. It justifies feelings of greed for many people and erodes empathy for people in need of help.

        I don't believe that is what libertarian ideas are meant to be about, but that seems to be the end result. It has many evil anti-human aspects to it, primarily because most believers take the ideology to ridiculous extremes. The same thing happens with proponents of some welfare programs (to give you a more palatable analogy) who get so focused on fixing social problems that they don't realize their solutions are more harmful than good.

        If Rand was serious about her ideas she would not have accepted welfare, and yes that shoots a massive whole in her followers beliefs. If that doesn't show you how necessary social safety nets are, then you're beyond hope.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 22 2018, @10:57PM (5 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 22 2018, @10:57PM (#626309) Journal

          Yes actually it does deserve contempt, the libertarian philosophy has become mired down in naivety and claims to base itself in reality which is just beyond not true. It justifies feelings of greed for many people and erodes empathy for people in need of help.

          Utter nonsense. First, that complaint holds for most beliefs. They tend to be naive and based on personal self-interest. So nothing special for libertarianism there. Second, no it doesn't justify feelings of greed as you noted in your second paragraph.

          It has many evil anti-human aspects to it, primarily because most believers take the ideology to ridiculous extremes.

          What doesn't? You already mentioned welfare-based belief. I'll point out that science and religion both have this problem as well.

          If Rand was serious about her ideas she would not have accepted welfare, and yes that shoots a massive whole in her followers beliefs.

          And she did. She just didn't do it as long as you would have liked.

          If that doesn't show you how necessary social safety nets are, then you're beyond hope.

          If I force cannibalism via harsh restrictions on diet, does that prove how necessary cannibalism is? Just because one has to play the game in order to survive doesn't mean the game is necessary or desirable.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 23 2018, @12:13AM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 23 2018, @12:13AM (#626350)

            Sweet jesus you are such a troll. Do you have scripts set up that notify you when an AC responds to you? Or you just use the "new" functionality? Either way you are either a) worst employee ever or b) unemployed.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 23 2018, @01:07AM (3 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 23 2018, @01:07AM (#626369) Journal
              Rational argument often looks like dark magic to someone who isn't prepared for it.
              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 23 2018, @03:12AM (2 children)

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday January 23 2018, @03:12AM (#626404) Journal

                From this I can assume you're multiclassing Bard and Jester then?

                --
                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 23 2018, @05:48PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 23 2018, @05:48PM (#626663)

                  At least it is amusing how blind khal is to criticism. Must be slightly autistic or something to so drastically misconstrue criticism.

                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 23 2018, @08:38PM

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday January 23 2018, @08:38PM (#626739) Journal

                    Don't conflate mad and bad, please. There is evil in this world, there are people who have given themselves over to it (to what end I don't know), and we are sometimes confronted with it. Mr. Hallow is almost certainly not autistic; he is merely an asshole, and a particular type of asshole that would sell his momma to Satan for a bag of Doritos if he thought Grand High Inquisitor Rand would approve of it.

                    --
                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by https on Monday January 22 2018, @06:26PM

    by https (5248) on Monday January 22 2018, @06:26PM (#626169) Journal

    Uh, no. Only he will consider himself useless trash then.

    I'd welcome him to Canada, except I think he'd have an aneurysm when he realized that nobody here (except for a few American-funded fringe groups) thinks taxes are theft.

    --
    Offended and laughing about it.