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posted by mrpg on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:01PM   Printer-friendly
from the signal-to-noise-ratio dept.

Diplomats and other victims of mysterious "sonic attacks" at the American embassy in Havana, Cuba are experiencing neurological symptoms months after being affected:

A preliminary case report on the victims of mysterious "health attacks" in Havana, Cuba details the results of extensive clinical evaluations, concluding that the individuals appear to have sustained "injury to widespread brain networks without an associated history of head trauma."

The report offers the first medical glimpse of the victims—US government personnel and their families who were serving on diplomatic assignment in Havana. From late 2016 to August 2017, they reported experiencing bizarre and inexplicable sonic and sensory episodes. The episodes tended to include directional, irritating sounds, such as buzzing and piercing squeals, as well as pressure and vibrations. Afterward, the victims developed a constellation of neurological symptoms.

In clinical evaluations of 21 of 24 individuals affected, an interdisciplinary team of doctors at University of Pennsylvania's Perelman School of Medicine retrospectively pieced together symptoms—an average of 203 days after individuals were exposed. They found that the most common issues persisting more than three months after exposure were cognitive impairment (17/21); balance issues (15/21); visual (18/21) and hearing (15/21) problems; sleep impairment (18/21); and headaches (16/21).

Previously: U.S. State Department Pulls Employees From Cuba, Issues Travel Warning Due to "Sonic Attacks"
A 'Sonic Attack' on Diplomats in Cuba? These Scientists Doubt It


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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:10PM (33 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:10PM (#639440)
    Starting Score:    0  points
    Moderation   +3  
       Insightful=1, Informative=2, Disagree=1, Total=4
    Extra 'Informative' Modifier   0  

    Total Score:   3  
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by frojack on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:15PM (19 children)

    by frojack (1554) on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:15PM (#639442) Journal
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    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:33PM (10 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:33PM (#639445)

      No, that is something entirely different. The reported effects are unlikely to be the result of a "sonic weapon". I'd be looking at microwaves [medicaldaily.com] first and I'd start by eliminating the possibility of a malfunctioning device within the embassy.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @10:17PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @10:17PM (#639483)

        Yup. And are they sure there are no other cause in the environment? Bad paint? Sick building? Built on a chemical dump? I dunno. Maybe the sonic stuff is symptoms, not causes.

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @10:35PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @10:35PM (#639489)

          Embassy was built on an ancient Taíno graveyard.

          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday February 18 2018, @01:00AM

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday February 18 2018, @01:00AM (#639545) Journal

            So it's a Poltergeist? Or maybe the "device" didn't malfunction, but was an experiment. And being in Cuba and all, it's easy just to blame them.

            Is there a way to measure RF exposure after the fact?

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Sunday February 18 2018, @01:36AM (1 child)

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 18 2018, @01:36AM (#639552) Journal

        Considering everything I'd be looking first for some disease organism, and then for an allergic reaction.

        OTOH, I'm no medic.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @05:27AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @05:27AM (#639610)

          Amazing! I'm sure the "interdisciplinary team of doctors at University of Pennsylvania's Perelman School of Medicine" never considered the possibility. Have you considered proposing yourself to lead the "interdisciplinary team of doctors at University of Pennsylvania's Perelman School of Medicine "? I'm sure they would find a room for you with extra soft padded walls.

      • (Score: 2) by driverless on Sunday February 18 2018, @04:53AM (4 children)

        by driverless (4770) on Sunday February 18 2018, @04:53AM (#639604)

        A much simpler explanation is sick building syndrome, which the embassy actually is: They had to spend a ton of money in the 1990s trying to revamp it because of this problem. Looks like they didn't quite succeed.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @05:31AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @05:31AM (#639613)

          Sick building syndrone: "These symptoms appear to be linked to time spent in a building, though no specific illness or cause can be identified"

          How the FUCK is this a much simpler explanation? Perhaps Jesus is putting LSD in the water supply at night because nobody's praying enough - that's a simple explanation, right?

        • (Score: 2) by beckett on Sunday February 18 2018, @05:54AM (1 child)

          by beckett (1115) on Sunday February 18 2018, @05:54AM (#639620)

          What evidence do you have it's the building causing neurological symptoms? if you claim it is due to a reno done in the '90s, there should be a number of cases of these types of disease from the past two decades, as well as reports of deafness.

          Is there any history of building residents becoming sick with similar damage? please post anything you might have; it would be very interesting if you have epidemiology on this building.

          • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @02:16PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @02:16PM (#639701)

            The Feng Shui is probably all wrong. One time I moved the sofa in my living room and got terrible pains until I moved it off my foot. Made a huge difference.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 19 2018, @12:53PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 19 2018, @12:53PM (#640062)

          5 Canadian diplomatic staff reported similar symptoms. Mass hysteria could still account for this, but I doubt that environmental contamination local to the US embassy could.

    • (Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:38PM (7 children)

      by tftp (806) on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:38PM (#639447) Homepage
      ""Long Range Acoustic Devices, which emit an ear-splitting whine, were used intermittently throughout the day" one reporter wrote" - was such a whine heard by the embassy staff? If not, the known LRADs could not be involved.
      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:48PM (4 children)

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:48PM (#639451) Journal

        Set it to "harsh silence" (>28 kHz).

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:55PM

          by tftp (806) on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:55PM (#639455) Homepage
          Ultrasound doesn't penetrate walls. That's why we use it in sensors. All this covered in the Scientific American article linked above by an AC.
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @09:02PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @09:02PM (#639459)

          Set it to "harsh silence" (>28 kHz).

          The frequency response of monitor loudspeakers with ribbon tweeters extends to 50kHz, I'm sat right in front of a pair. Predominant research into ultrasound is as a treatment for brain injury [fusfoundation.org] not as a viable weapon. [wikipedia.org]

          • (Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday February 17 2018, @10:02PM (1 child)

            by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday February 17 2018, @10:02PM (#639477) Journal

            Ultrasound might be safe for the brain, until you crank up the decibels.

            See also transcranial direct current stimulation [wikipedia.org] vs. electroshock therapy [wikipedia.org].

            --
            [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
            • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @10:33PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @10:33PM (#639488)

              Ultrasound might be safe for the brain, until you crank up the decibels.

              This applies to all sound, some doesn't even require excessive replay level - Miley Cyrus songs for example.

              You'd be aware if a product like this was in use. [argoasecurity.com] If you care to pull up a table of sound absorption coefficients and keep the inverse square law in mind, it should become apparent that something like this would not be effective operated from outside a building.

      • (Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday February 17 2018, @11:16PM (1 child)

        by frojack (1554) on Saturday February 17 2018, @11:16PM (#639508) Journal

        If not, the known LRADs could not be involved.

        Why would you suspect a KNOWN LRAD was used? Do Cuban's patent their clandestine tools with the US Patent Office?
        They would change any known design to be far less detectable.

        The statement was asserted that there was no such weapon known. Yet two seconds of google search shows that there are several such things from many manufacturers both in the US and other countries that are on the market.

        Who knows what else is in the inventory of government agencies, or embedded in the walls of the long vacant embassy. People in the embassy did hear things, loud things, things so loud they would overrun any available microphone and not be recorded.

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @11:44PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @11:44PM (#639518)

          The statement was asserted that there was no such weapon known. Yet two seconds of google search shows that there are several such things from many manufacturers both in the US and other countries that are on the market.

          Sadly, none are capable of violating the laws of physics.

          embedded in the walls of the long vacant embassy.

          There's no plausible scenario where this proposed "sonic weapon" could have originated from outside the building.

          At 50kHz, you're losing 2.4dB/M due to the absorption coefficient of air and a building is going to have a minimum STC rating (for audible frequencies) of 50dB. At ultrasonic frequencies, the absorption coefficient of a building is 1.0 or above. I've worked with shotgun mics (interference tube like the LRAD but in reverse) and parabolas and you'd not stand outside a building and record a conversation occurring inside.

          People in the embassy did hear things, loud things, things so loud they would overrun any available microphone and not be recorded.

          Nobody is disputing this.

          I've already suggested microwaves, as did this AC. [soylentnews.org] Which seems more likely, sonic weapon or microwaves? [nytimes.com]

  • (Score: 4, Funny) by Whoever on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:43PM (1 child)

    by Whoever (4524) on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:43PM (#639449) Journal

    No such "sonic weapon" is known to exist.

    That's because, obviously, their injuries came about as a result of living in a communist country and nothing else!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @06:06AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @06:06AM (#639625)

      Not to mention the socialized government healthcare they received when they came back to the USA. Get those people back on their own 2 feet and taking pride in themselves then we'll see those symptoms magically disappear (as well as the healthcare leeches that accompany them).

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by JNCF on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:48PM (9 children)

    by JNCF (4317) on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:48PM (#639450) Journal

    Scary thought: what if we attacked a human body with a sonic weapon that was tuned to the resonant frequencies of that body's constituent components? I once knew a man quite a bit older than myself who claimed that such a weapon had been tested on him during his military years, and that he had signed papers promising his silence on the subject. If true, he was surprisingly loose with the information. I never fully trusted him. He said that it gave him a wide range of symptoms (they tested different frequencies at different times) including permanent partial hearing loss, balance loss to the point of not being able to stand, headaches, various bodily pains, vomiting, pissing, and shitting. That last bit sounds like it came out of a South Park episode, I know.

    You have no reason to unconditionally believe me, and I have no reason to unconditionally believe my unnamed source, but it wouldn't be particularly surprising to me if world governments have had access to sonic weapons of this nature for the last half-century.

    • (Score: 1) by tftp on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:59PM (1 child)

      by tftp (806) on Saturday February 17 2018, @08:59PM (#639458) Homepage
      First we need to ask ourselves what, if any, components are capable of resonance. This is a function of quality of a resonant system, directly linked to losses. A chain of steel balls on strings has very high quality, and they can swing and hit each other for a long time. Replace steel balls with meat and you get... nothing.
      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @02:10AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @02:10AM (#639562)

        A chain of steel balls on strings has very high quality, and they can swing and hit each other for a long time. Replace steel balls with meat and you get... nothing.

        meatballs

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Saturday February 17 2018, @09:08PM (1 child)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Saturday February 17 2018, @09:08PM (#639461)

      a man quite a bit older than myself ... he was surprisingly loose with the information.

      When you get old enough, you stop caring what they might do to you - it's unlikely (in this country) that they'll come after your descendants, if you even have any.

      We tested a therapeutic device tuned to one resonant frequency of the thoracic cavity, around 2 Hz - displace the body with about 1/4g of sinusoidal acceleration at 2 Hz and you stimulate increased bloodflow in the organs, release of endogenous nitric oxide which further dilates the vessels and increases circulation.

      Seems like your un-named source was being hit with much higher frequencies, but still mechanical, and not for therapeutic effects.

      Seems like the embassy victims were being neuro-stimulated with the signals, and it's not unreasonable to think that a few days of continuous sub-conscious stimulation could cause some nasty, and lasting effects.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @09:27PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @09:27PM (#639466)

        A 2Hz sine wave has a wavelength of 171.5 Meters, a loudspeaker that can project that at amplitude and with sufficient damping that most of the energy isn't output as structural vibration would be difficult to hide. With a lower frequency (longer wavelength) you need more mass to block sound while ultrasound would require massive amplitude to transmit through a partition wall. When we add in considerations like the inverse square law, we may as well start claiming this "sonic weapon" was powered by a perpetual motion machine.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @09:11PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 17 2018, @09:11PM (#639462)

      You would have to target resonant modes of skull cavities or vital organs which differ in size between people and at the amplitude required, you'd deafen them first. Surely sound waves can be insidious enough [mindvalley.com] without venturing into Exploding head, David Cronenberg territory?

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by krishnoid on Saturday February 17 2018, @10:46PM

      by krishnoid (1156) on Saturday February 17 2018, @10:46PM (#639495)

      ... he had signed papers promising his silence on the subject. If true, he was surprisingly loose with the information.
      ...
      He said that it gave him a wide range of symptoms (they tested different frequencies at different times) including permanent partial hearing loss, balance loss to the point of not being able to stand, headaches, various bodily pains, vomiting, pissing, and shitting. That last bit sounds like it came out of a South Park episode, I know.

      Plus decreased inhibition about describing personally embarrassing things he signed NDAs on, apparently.

    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday February 18 2018, @01:00AM (1 child)

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Sunday February 18 2018, @01:00AM (#639546) Homepage
      Remind me how resonance works in the presence of such high damping?
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @01:12AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @01:12AM (#639549)

        Remind me how resonance works in the presence of such high damping?

        How damp are we going here? Are you aware that even water has resonance? [lsbu.ac.uk]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @06:11AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @06:11AM (#639628)

      Funny you mention it. There's a former military guy who lives under the bridge near me who talks (to himself mainly) about medical experiments done on him. He's got syphillus so, yeah, I guess he was right about that ;)

  • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday February 18 2018, @06:58AM

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 18 2018, @06:58AM (#639638) Journal

    Sonic weapon, no.
    Son cubano [wikipedia.org], yes.
    And it's truly [youtube.com] enjoyable [youtube.com], especially on hot days with a Havana Club dark aged rum handy.
    I'd be happy to mention cigars, but many here have a too righteous spirit.

    --
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