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New studies zero in on roots of depression and why ketamine reverses it
[There's] been significant progress in unravelling the confusion over ketamine, with researchers identifying a ketamine derivative that tackles depression with far fewer side effects. And this week, a team of researchers at China's Zhejiang University announced that they've figured out where in the brain ketamine acts when it blocks depression, a finding that gives us significant insights into the biology of the disorder.
The new studies rely on the work of a number of other labs, which have identified a specific structure deep in the brain that's associated with depression. Called the lateral habenula, it's been associated with a variety of activities, the most relevant of which seems to be the processing of unpleasant outcomes and punishment. Electrodes implanted there have been used to relieve depression in at least one instance.
To test whether this might be the site of ketamine's activity, one team of researchers infused the drug directly into the lateral habenula of rats with depression-like symptoms; it blocked them. So did a separate chemical that inhibits the same proteins that ketamine acts on. Tracking the activity in the area, the researchers were able to show that there are bursts of activity in rats with symptoms of depression that are absent in healthy rats. The drugs that blocked depression suppressed these bursts.
Ketamine blocks bursting in the lateral habenula to rapidly relieve depression (DOI: 10.1038/nature25509) (DX)
Astroglial Kir4.1 in the lateral habenula drives neuronal bursts in depression (DOI: 10.1038/nature25752) (DX)
Related: FDA Designates MDMA as a "Breakthrough Therapy" for PTSD; Approves Phase 3 Trials
Study Suggests Psilocybin "Resets" the Brains of Depressed People
Ketamine Reduces Suicidal Thoughts in Depressed Patients
(Score: 3, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Sunday February 18 2018, @02:07PM
I think I'd be depressed if my lateral habenula were bursting...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @02:10PM
How can we ban this? It's encouraging the kids to take illegal drugs and destroy their lives and others. Because of Freedom and Religious Liberty I have the right to not let anyone put some things in their body - including drugs and penises in the butthole - otherwise (...fill in later...). Illegal drugs are illegal!
Now it's time for my oxys and a glass of wine.
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Sunday February 18 2018, @03:14PM (18 children)
After doing a bunch of reading over the past few days on school shootings I am really seeing the importance of a depression drug that doesn't cause suicidal/violent outbursts. In many cases antidepressents were involved around (specifically quitting) when school shootings happened. A drug that works in reducing depression without having withdrawls would be very useful.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @03:30PM (6 children)
Big pharma has been trying to re-invent in an afternoon what the planetary Goddess perfected through evolution on time scales that make all of human history the blink of an eye. The humans have a civilization-wide case of NIH syndrome.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday February 18 2018, @05:56PM (5 children)
Show me where mean mother Gaia invented air conditioning, indoor plumbing, sanitary surgery, etc. She and her abusive pimp boyfriend Malthus can fuck off and die. And when the resident stereotypical granola dyke with the gallon bottle of Dr. Bronner's soap is telling you your Mother Nature narrative is bullshit, you KNOW it's bullshit.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @10:09PM (4 children)
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 19 2018, @03:44AM (3 children)
I don't know who Spam-modded you for that, but that right there is better religion than you will find in any holy book, anywhere, with the possible exception of some Buddhist scriptures :)
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday February 19 2018, @05:40AM
Not MikeeUsA, since there is no mention of pedophilia, or Hebrew Law, or perversion in general. Hmm, a new sentient form of like on SoylentNews? God-Damn!
(Score: 1) by gtomorrow on Monday February 19 2018, @07:08AM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 19 2018, @09:26PM
Yup, I just brought the refill of the citrus-scented soap a couple of days ago :) The writings look insane if you're only paying attention to the surface details, but the meaning underlying them is crystal clear and universally true.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @05:51PM (9 children)
The sad thing is people will see this as an excuse to abuse a drug and self medicate. Instead of good scientific study (like the one here). It will get vilified and end up like all the other drugs out there that could help people in particular cases.
To do a proper study we need control groups. Long term and short term effects. What sort of dosage are we talking here? Milligrams or grams?
I think I may have some sort of mild depression (long term well over 20+ years). But most of the drugs I look into have seriously nasty side effects that are basically worse than what I am going through. Then on top of that most of the drugs seem to cover up the root causes. In some cases it is an imbalance. But it may be something else. But you have basically smoothed it over and still are not finding the root cause. In some cases it is psychological in others a genetic thing in others an environmental thing. Then just to add icing to the cake 'Obamacare' has basically put me personally getting help out of reach due to stupid high deductibles. Looking down the barrel of several thousand dollars of costs with a 'maybe we can help, or maybe not' then a high cost ongoing cost. I miss the 90s this shit would have cost maybe a few hundred bucks, tops.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @06:04PM (7 children)
You can grow lots of shrooms for under $200. Spores can be legally bought by mail order.
If you did turn to non-prescription ketamine, it's only Schedule 3.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @10:35PM (3 children)
I am not touching that shit. Again self medicating is just shooting in the dark. I do not like psychedelic effects. It makes me extremely sick. Sure I may not feel depressed but I feel like total hell. I am not looking to feel geeked out or floaty. I just do not want to be depressed.
I am also not going to 'give ketamine a try'. That sort of thinking is little more than drink a can of 7up and take an aspirin to feel better when you have the flu. It may sooth the side effects a bit but does not fix the root cause.
Dealing with the 'drug scene' is like dealing with extremely inexperienced programmers. They 'try' things with little regard for the science and rigor of doing it correctly. "just try X" well thats nice but it did jack diddly to fix the issue at hand. What is worse there are many out there who have master level experience but never graduated to actually doing things correctly. Just because you have done something for 10k hours does not make you an expert. It just gives you the opportunity to do so.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday February 18 2018, @11:58PM
Where is your version of this "drug scene" of which you speak?
My version was seeing junkies literally begging to suck dick for heroin, or to try and sucker me into cold-calling their dealers at 3 a.m. and score drugs for them because even their dealers would no longer sell to them. Or how about the tweekers who rent and illegally sublet a Mexicali-slum studio apartment with nothing but a shit-stained mattress in it fire up the glass dick and take turns sitting on their asses on the floor and pacing around like some kind of urban powow gone bad. Or the single mother of two OD'ing and dying after a round of booze and pain medication. Or the other numerous cases of Hep-C and jail time, driving their own girlfriends up to Johns' houses and pimping them out multiple times a night before kissing the mouth that just sucked 5-10 dicks.
Booze is a destructive drug but there is more dignity in being the village drunkard than there is the last paragraph above.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 19 2018, @12:04AM (1 child)
You keep on saying it but it's not true. Nobody should take your pessimism about this to heart.
You can self-medicate safely with shrooms. You can take small amounts and adjust the dose up each time. Doses under about a gram will have few or no psychedelic effects. Microdosers take as little as 0.25 grams.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 19 2018, @02:03AM
IME, it takes about 2-3 grams to get any visual effect, and those usually light until I get into 1/8 oz or above. Shrooms are non-addictive, very safe, and extremely useful both recreationally and for dealing with depression. Pure MDMA has a similar efficacy, but it also has side effects and isn't quite as safe.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday February 18 2018, @11:46PM (2 children)
You can legally buy the spores, but you get on the FBI watch-list for legally buying the pressure-cookers needed to grow. And, as we all have recently discovered if not known for years, the FBI is an organization with its priorities straight.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @11:57PM (1 child)
You're already on multiple watchlists. But you can buy the pressure cooker with cash at some Bed, Bath & Beyond place or a local hardware store.
If you want to be ghetto or avoid a watchlist you can use boiling water only for the BRF method.
(Score: 2) by SanityCheck on Monday February 19 2018, @09:04AM
Would you by chance know whether the watchlist is single or double ply?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @06:43PM
There's a number of things that need to be studied before something like this can be prescribed ethically. Then there's the legal consideration.
I cringe when I hear people boosting things like kratom, marijuana and ketamine without having appropriate research as to the efficacy, side effects and protocol that would be relevant to prescribing them. Sure, they may have unapproved uses that work, but so did morphine and heroine and they've caused all sorts of trouble due to the way they were used.
Drug policy should be based on the best available science.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @06:39PM
One problem is that these medications don't necessarily impact everybody the same way. Most of the time, the difference is that what works for one person doesn't do much for somebody else, but it can provide the break on depression necessary to do the things that they were too depressed to do. Usually, this is a good thing, but it can also cause somebody to commit suicide or mass murder when they were previously too depressed to do it.
This is one of the reasons why medication is prescribed by trained professionals rather than handed out over the counter.
The bigger issue though is that psychiatric medications are based on unproven science. The belief is that there's a chemical imbalance that causes the illness. But, there's not a whole lot of evidence that the causal relationship is pointed in that direction and popping pills is really just a temporary fix while other treatments that have a much more solid foundation are allowed to work. Therapy tends to work quite well over the long term for most people and the basis for it is relatively well understood when compared with the pills.
To make matters worse, the placebo effect is growing stronger and it's getting increasingly challenging to come up with medications that are effective enough to be approved. The result is that if one of the current medications isn't helping, there's less and less hope that in the future some medication will come along that will work.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @06:07PM (3 children)
Clinical Major Depression is not just a bad case of 'feeling down'.
I know anecdote is not the singular of data, but for those who have never experienced it, it can be hard to get your head around the concept.
I have no delusions that I can clearly articulate what so many other, more talented writers have attempted, but maybe my sharing some of my story may help someone else.
Having been sufficiently depressed that suicide seemed like a viable option, I'd like to share some of my personal experience in the hopes that it helps at least one person dispense with some common misconceptions.
Saying something like "Look on the bright side" or "just cheer up... thing's can't be that bad" is about as effective as telling a starving person to ignore their feeling of hunger.
What it was like:
I was fortunate to have an intervention which got me clinical help. In-patient therapy. (Colloquially: staying in the nut house.) Medications and sessions with a psychologist and with therapists slowly helped turn the tide. I found great help from CBT - Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and DBT Dialectical Behavior Therapy. I'd estimate it took me over two years time before I was back to something approaching 'normal'.
If this medication is even 10% as effective as these studies suggest, it could be a literal life saver.
That was many years ago and I am incredibly grateful that I have not reverted to that depth of despair, since. There have been times when things start trending downhill, but I have been to recognize the symptoms, now, and take steps to keep it from spiraling back out of control.
I have a whole host of friends, now. Most days, easily a dozen people see me and greet me by name, and with a smile. I know I could ask any one of them for help and they would be more than willing to lend a hand in whatever way they could. And, as this research suggests, there are more tools becoming available all the time.
tl;dr There is help available. If you know someone who is struggling, lend a hand. If YOU are struggling, reach out for help. There are countless resources available, if only one is willing to ask.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 18 2018, @06:43PM
For me, the worst part was always the inability to enjoy anything.
How many times have you had to perform some unpleasant task that you really don't want to do, and to motivate yourself you make a deal? Something like, "I'll clean the toilets, and afterwards I'll play a video game for a while." Well, when you're depressed, everything is an unpleasant task that you really don't want to do. So you make yourself lots of deals. Except your "reward" doesn't feel good. It doesn't make you happy. You know it should make you happy, but you feel nothing. And that, itself, makes you feel even worse.
Of course, this all feeds into self-loathing. I hate myself, because I'm basically defective. Because I hate myself, I want myself to suffer. I deserve to feel miserable; it's only right that I can't enjoy anything.
(Score: 2) by sbgen on Monday February 19 2018, @02:04AM
Looks like you have turned around a bend and backed away from the abyss. Hope you will keep moving positively to a better state of mind. As for Ketamine, it is a new tool and very fast acting effective one at that. Efforts are on to understand the mechanisms of function of various forms of the compound. This is not a medical opinion but that of a research scientist. There is hope indeed; how long before it is worked out is a different matter.
Warning: Not a computer expert, but got to use it. Yes, my kind does exist.
(Score: 1) by DBeemer on Wednesday February 21 2018, @10:08AM
Fortunately I don't suffer from depression, but my girlfriend does have times of serious depressions, where she openly talks about suicide being a viable solution.
All I can say is that when you have person close to you with such depression, do not ever give up on them. Stay with them and try to provide support.
This can be very hard and mentally wrecking for you as a support, but it will slowly help the person to get out of it.
From this I learned with my girlfriend, and please don't assume this will work for you, that I have to sort of break her to get her out of that mental state.
Fortunately we found out that her depressions mostly stem from a lack of exposure to the sun and we have it under control with a combination af vitamine b12, D and a daylight lamp.
She now tells me whenever she begins to feel down, so that we can take action to prevent the occurence of a new depression wave.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday February 18 2018, @09:43PM
My witch doctor at ucsc didn't ask whether I was bipolar before she prescribed Elavil
Hilarity quite literally ensued
I spent some time in the slammer. The prosecutor agreed to drop the charges if I agreed to spend 72 hours in a nuthatch
"But I'm not crazy!"
"I know that but stay cool for three days and you're a free man!"
I didn't stay cool. I was in for a month. I should have been in longer but my insurance ran out
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]