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Swedish PM Does Not Rule Out Use of Army to End Gang Violence

posted by janrinok on Monday February 26 2018, @07:34PM   Printer-friendly
from the big-guns dept.

An Anonymous Coward writes:

Sweden will do whatever it takes, including sending in the army, to end a wave of violence that has seen a string of deadly shootings, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said in Wednesday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-violence/swedish-pm-does-not-rule-out-use-of-army-to-end-gang-violence-idUSKBN1F629L

Sweden's murder rate is relatively low in international terms, but gang violence has surged in recent years and Swedes are worried that the police are unable to cope.

In 2016, the latest year for which official statistics are available, 106 people were murdered in Sweden, a country of 10 million.

But Swedish TV reported there were over 300 shootings, mostly in turf battles between gangs over drugs, protection rackets and prostitution.

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  • (Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Monday February 26 2018, @09:52PM (22 children)

    by c0lo (156) on Monday February 26 2018, @09:52PM (#644228) Journal

    Migrant areas of Sweden are not becoming war zones because of centrists or people on the right.

    Apologies for pooping on your "Insightful" post with some reality check, but

    - Crime in Sweden, Part II: Are Refugee Men Overrepresented in Swedish Crime? Mostly false [snopes.com] "Claims that newly-arrived asylum seekers are causing a crime wave in Sweden are not supported by data or local officials"
    - 'Sweden has had gang problems since the '90s' [thelocal.se]
    - Facts about migration, integration and crime in Sweden [government.se] - from the Sweden government.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:17PM (7 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:17PM (#644253)

    reality check

    Most of the gang members are Swedes - slow hand clap! [pewresearch.org]

    Helpful explainer video [youtube.com] from a Bosnian Muslim immigrant living in Sweden.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:22PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:22PM (#644257)

    Three things:

    * "Are refugee men over-represented in Swedish crime" is he wrong question. The correct question is whether people of non-Swedish, and even more markedly non western-European origin are over-represented in crime statistics, to which the answer is a resounding "yes, very much so". The number of actual refugees in Sweden is relatively low, most migrants move to Sweden for economic reasons or to join a family member (often known as an "anchor") who successfully claimed asylum there. On the over-representation of certain groups of migrants you can read more in the (by now somewhat outdated but the current government does not allow more study on this subject...) study on this subject by BRÅ (Brottsförebyggande Rådet, crime prevention council) [1], suffice to say that the chance that a migrant commits a crime was 2.5 times that of a native (risen from 2.1 times in the previous study, the current number is higher but can not officially be published), for some crimes (e.g. aggravated rape) the number rises dramatically up to 25 in some cases.
    t
    * While Sweden had gang problems before - e.g. the turf war between Hells Angels and Bandidos - the current situation where parts of certain towns and cities are classed as "no-go zones" for police and other services is new. The scale of the gang problem is also new.

    * The Swedish government is not a reliable source to go to when looking for "facts about migration, integration and crime" as they have failed in all three of those areas and do their best to hide these facts. Better information can be had from independent researchers like (economist) Tino Sanandaji [2], (researcher) Magnus Norell [3] etc.

      [1] https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800012697/1371914727881/2005_17_brottslighet_bland_personer_fodda_sverige_och_utlandet.pdf [www.bra.se]

      [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tino_Sanandaji [wikipedia.org]

      [3] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Norell [wikipedia.org]

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday February 26 2018, @11:07PM (5 children)

      by c0lo (156) on Monday February 26 2018, @11:07PM (#644289) Journal

      The correct question is whether people of non-Swedish, and even more markedly non western-European origin are over-represented in crime statistics, to which the answer is a resounding "yes, very much so".

      pdf and in Sweden, doesn't play well even with the shitty Google translate. Have something more accessible, please?

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by looorg on Tuesday February 27 2018, @12:13AM (4 children)

        by looorg (578) on Tuesday February 27 2018, @12:13AM (#644318)

        Probably not. If you want to read about Swedish crime statistics then you more or less have to be able to read Swedish, they only really do minor summaries in English at best and it's something they only started to do very recently. Google translate is hardly helpful in these matters.

        That said this is not really unknown territory as far as statistics go. The normally cited report from BRÅ in regards to over-representation in crime among and compared between the normal population and immigrants is a report from 1996 called "Invandrare och invandrares barns brottslighet" (roughly translated to immigrants and their childrens criminality) which without a doubt states the over-representation in crimes of immigrants and their children (or second generation immigrants) is massive when it comes to violent crimes. If separated out by country of origin the problem was mostly focused on people from northern Africa and the middle east. The immigrants from other parts of the world such as eastern Asia and the countries that are next to Sweden was not an issue or deviated from the normal, if anything there was a lot of countries that was under-represented compared to the main population. There was a follow up about ten years later that showed the exact same things.

        No new reports have been produced after these for some fairly obvious reasons, first nothing changed for the better and secondly they where a real problem for the politicians that wanted an open border multicultural society so no new reports were ordered to be produced.. So unless shown that the trend has somehow magically gone in another different or opposite direction, which there is absolutely no evidence for, one can fairly safely assume that there is a massive over representation among certain groups of male foreigners when it comes to violent crimes in Sweden, and probably also in many other countries.

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:10AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:10AM (#644391)

          This is also true in America, though all the studies about it get suppressed! Most of the crime in North America, for that matter, is committed by immigrants or the descendants of immigrants, mostly white people from Europe. Indigenous people commit a vanishingly small number of crimes in America. The only solution is to close the boarders, build a Wall-E and deport all those violent Washita back to where they came from. It should be obvious by now that they cannot be assimilated.

          • (Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:29AM (2 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:29AM (#644400) Homepage Journal

            The only solution is to close the boarders,

            http://grammarist.com/homophones/border-vs-boarder/ [grammarist.com]

            So it is your position that if all of the bed and breakfasts, all hotels and motels, dormitories, and the like were to be closed down, the criminal problem would - magically disappear? Yeah, probably so. If all those boarders were left standing in the rain, many would catch pneumonia, die, and disappear after they were dropped into holes in the ground.

            --
            Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @09:44AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 28 2018, @09:44AM (#645060)

              Yes! Close the boarders, and the edgings! Block off the sedge! Eliminate the liminal. Eradicate the Frontier. Mark the Telemark! Send the convicts to face the barbarians! Erase the margins! Flush the estuaries. Open the gates! Spill the liquid that divides! Merge, Runaway, merge with the "all that is", and peace will find you. If not, it was fifty bucks well spent.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday February 26 2018, @11:58PM (2 children)

      by c0lo (156) on Monday February 26 2018, @11:58PM (#644312) Journal

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tino_Sanandaji [wikipedia.org]

      He earned a MSc in Economics and Business Administration from Stockholm School of Economics in 2003 and a PhD from the Harris School of Public Policy at the University of Chicago in 2011. His PhD dissertation is entitled Essays in Entrepreneurship Policy.

      ... According to Sanandaji, he has purposely never conducted research on immigration so as to avoid having doubts cast on the research. Instead, he refers to research carried out by other individuals.[9] As of 2014, he describes his profession as economic research and writing on immigration as an unpaid hobby

      So, an economic "scientist" with a hobby for social "sciences", who doesn't want to be tainted by prev research on immigration.

      ---

      https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Norell [wikipedia.org]

      Debate rages in Sweden over Muslim Brotherhood report [thelocal.se]

      The report suggests that the Muslim Brotherhood is secretly leading Islamists in building a parallel society in Sweden by infiltrating organizations and political parties in the country.

      It also claims that there is an "established structure of values among the country's political elite which stipulate how as a citizen you should approach 'minorities'".

      But in a blog post signed by 22 Swedish researchers specializing in religious studies, the claims were labelled as "almost conspiracy-theory like", and the study accused of ignoring previous research, lacking sources, and basing conclusions on personal views rather than evidence.

      The idea that Islamists are secretly building a parallel society in Sweden is, according to the 22 researchers "a conclusion which goes against the collective research" in the field.

      "The major shortcoming of the report is that it seems to be completely unaware of Islamic research which currently exists at Swedish and Nordic universities," Lund University professor of Islamic studies Jan Hjärpe, who was one of the 22 researchers to sign the blog post, told The Local.

      "The list of signatories is comprised largely of active researchers who have done and do in-depth studies on a range of the relevant concerns. It is striking that MSB ordered this report without at all consulting the expertise available. I suspect this is due to ignorance on the authority's behalf," he added.

      ---

      Better information can be had from independent researchers like (economist) Tino Sanandaji [2], (researcher) Magnus Norell

      Excuse me, but I feel the number of grains of salt I need to take with the independent researcher cited goes well above my sodium tolerance - I'm not that young anymore.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @12:49AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @12:49AM (#644339)

        So, Swedish Nazis, then? What we may call "Quisling Meatballs"?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @01:13AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @01:13AM (#644361)

        Excuse me, but I feel the number of grains of salt I need to take with the independent researcher cited goes well above my sodium tolerance - I'm not that young anymore.

        Nothing worth losing your head over [wikipedia.org] but you can always consult crime rates in origin countries [answersafrica.com] as a proxy. Also; Colombia makes the list, hardly a ringing endorsement of Socialism given the Venezuelan exodus.

  • (Score: 2) by arslan on Monday February 26 2018, @10:26PM (3 children)

    by arslan (3462) on Monday February 26 2018, @10:26PM (#644261)

    Ummm.. in the article in the very first link.

    first this...

    most violence in Sweden can’t be linked to asylum seekers

    then this...

    Instead economic stagnation in immigrant communities that formed decades ago has resulted in intergenerational poverty, which has in turn fueled the proliferation of street gangs.

    So yea, it is just a debate in time period - at least based on the claims of that article. The new FOBs aren't doing it, but the FOBs from a few decades ago are.

    Personally, I'm not surprised. Poverty tends to lead folks to crime especially where options for digging themselves out of the hole are limited and the only helping hand offered are from incumbent criminals. Mass immigration tends to lend itself to folks banding together or forging alliances to increase their survival resilience in an alien environment. One plus one equals two - gangs.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:10AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:10AM (#644390)

      Key point there, "the only helping hand offered are from incumbent criminals." So are you arguing that we should provide more services to immigrants? Maybe help them succeed in their new home?

      • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:46AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @02:46AM (#644412)

        Because Sweden clearly isn’t doing enough... she was asking for it!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @03:58AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @03:58AM (#644452)

      > So yea, it is just a debate in time period - at least based on the claims of that article. The new FOBs aren't doing it, but the FOBs from a few decades ago are.

      If you dig deeper, it is not the poverty. It is the islam. It is common for some political parties to try blame it on economc inequities but the violence follows even among wealthier families.

      Over in the USA, look at the 911 moslems. They were all from wealthy, educated families to a man.