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Why You Should Buy Facebook While It's In Crisis (archive)
In spite of the headlines, the hearings, and the hashtags, it does not look like many users are leaving Facebook. A survey conducted by Deutsche Bank concluded that "just 1% of respondents were deactivating or deleting their accounts." If the survey is representative of Facebook's 2 billion users, then 20 million users might leave. This may seem like a big loss, but it means 99% of users are staying.
Doug Clinton, the managing partner of Loup Ventures, estimates that each active user generates about $21 in profits for Facebook each year. The loss of 20 million users would therefore reduce Facebook's earnings by roughly $420 million. Facebook's pretax income last year was $20.5 billion. Does a 2% drop in pretax income justify a 9% loss of market value? I don't think so.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by MostCynical on Monday April 16 2018, @08:15AM (17 children)
invest in a company known for exploitation!
Invest in a company known for using humans as commodities!
Ethics and morals are for the weak! They get in the way of profit! Capitalism demands sacrifice, and by golly, this investor is going to sacrifice you!
Now, go prop up this guy's crap portfolio.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 16 2018, @10:58AM (4 children)
It makes a man want to cry, doesn't it? Unfortunately, what you posted is true. Relatively few people understand how their privacy is being invaded, or how they are being exploited. Of those who understand, relatively few really seem to care. If all of us who care were to go out today, and explain as thoroughly as possible to the unenlightened, they still wouldn't care.
"Bill, you don't seem to understand - to Facebook, you are just one of the cattle. You wilingly give them whatever they ask for, so long as they give you a silly game to play, and you can check up on your wife and kids. You don't understand - Facebook is also checking up on your wife and kids. Facebook sells you to the rich bastards on Wall Street, and you willingly walk into the stall assigned to you. You are hamburger, Bill, a commodity sold on the future's market. You, your wife, your kids, everyone who lives on Facebook."
And, Bill shrugs me off.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Monday April 16 2018, @11:19AM (3 children)
What you're saying is absolutely, completely true. But why is everyone only upset when Facebook treats everyone that way? Why not the NSA, which is definitely invading every corner of everyone's lives? Why not the rest of Wall Street and the government?
To them, all of us are cattle to be treated exactly like cattle, and they have as much interest in the thoughts and feelings of the populace as they do cattle's.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 16 2018, @01:38PM
People weren't knowingly handing their information over to the NSA and the NSA doesn't specifically target people that are barely computer literate.
I think there's a lot of people out there that genuinely didn't understand what FB was doing and thought of it being a lot less harmful than it is. Now, having been caught with some egregious abuses of power that helped erode our political process all those people that had trusted the platform to just serve ads and provide a convenient place to communicate with friends and relatives are feeling hurt and betrayed.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 16 2018, @02:26PM (1 child)
If you've been as deep in the elite circles as you claim to have been, you already know why "everybody" only cares about privacy violations when Facebook does it.
The military-industrial complex is using its propaganda wing, the media, to twist Facebook's arm. They want to make sure Zuckerfuck knows that he's their bitch. When they're done with Zuckerfuck, he'll know better than to use Facebook's spying capabilities for the benefit of anybody else except the deep state.
The media isn't news. Their shit doesn't reflect the way people actually feel. The media is just propaganda, using their megaphone and playing a confidence game that we just take it for granted that "everybody" must only care when Facebook is invading our privacy.
The Media: People just listen to us.
The Media: We don't know why.
The Media: They "trust us"
The Media: Dumb fucks
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 16 2018, @04:04PM
exactly, congress and the media just want their cut of the slave profits.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by JoeMerchant on Monday April 16 2018, @11:53AM (4 children)
>Invest in a company known for using humans as commodities!
Is there any other kind of company?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by MostCynical on Monday April 16 2018, @12:02PM (3 children)
Profit-equitable-share companies, maybe?
Worker collectives (again, profit share)?
Otherwise, companies with 100% automated production.. not that there are any, yet.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday April 16 2018, @01:48PM (2 children)
Not-for-profits, yes... how many of those are publicly traded as investments?
Worker collectives - a nice hybrid, I keep my money in a credit union and it does (mostly) serve its members, again operating with a not-for-profit charter. These kinds of organizations borrow a lot of structure from the for-profit companies they replace, but, again, aren't an investment for growth of capital.
Companies with 100% automated production - I think you're missing my point here. If the company is for-profit, then the customers are the commodity. In a sense, Facebook is this already - virtual product, with the consumers as the value basis of the company. Same goes for restaurants, retail, leased real-estate, medical, etc. People are the value-basis of all these companies, without customers/consumers/patients the companies have no purpose and no profit.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Osamabobama on Monday April 16 2018, @07:31PM (1 child)
So you are saying that companies make money from people? I'm not sure if you are trying to explain a business model, or define 'business model'. If all the business types you list fit into one category, that category doesn't do much to illuminate your point.
Obviously, customers are the source of revenues. Maybe less obvious is that labor is the most significant source of value sold by a company. But I suppose it's people on both ends, so they are commodities. It's an interesting model; is it useful?
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday April 16 2018, @07:45PM
So, from your observation:
No. And, I would agree. The thing that somewhat separates Facebook from most others is that the human commodities neither realize that they are "working" for Facebook, nor directly pay Facebook for anything - so it's more of a 2B people-value in the middle, with thin slices on the paid labor and paying customer sides.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday April 16 2018, @12:18PM (6 children)
Umm, can you find a publicly traded company not known for exploitation? Exploitation is what companies do: Exploiting the environment (and thus the people that live near them), exploiting their employees (by underpaying them), exploiting their customers (by overcharging them, often by trickery), exploiting the government (via bribery) ...
If you don't know how the company you're a shareholder of is exploitative, that's almost definitely because you haven't thought about it.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday April 16 2018, @12:56PM
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Bobs on Monday April 16 2018, @01:18PM (4 children)
FYI: A 'good' company example is Costco.
Highlights:
From http://www.heraldnet.com/opinion/costco-understands-its-role-as-a-good-corporate-citizen/ [heraldnet.com]
- https://www.cbsnews.com/media/12-things-about-costco-that-may-surprise-you/5/ [cbsnews.com]
More on Costco
- https://www.fastcompany.com/1042487/ceo-interview-costcos-jim-sinegal [fastcompany.com]
Nobody is perfect, but Costco is quite good.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday April 16 2018, @04:48PM (2 children)
Costco's exploitation is right there in what you quoted:
So, in essence, Costco is using its market position to exploit its vendors. Which has further consequences along the supply chain, and of course to employees of those vendors.
I should mention that most companies will swear up and down that they aren't being exploitative, and spend various amounts of marketing and public relations dollars on getting that message out to the press. They're generally lying when they do that, and the way you know they're lying is that their shareholders would never put up with it if they weren't.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Bobs on Monday April 16 2018, @06:00PM
FYI: "Exploit" isn't necessarily a pejorative.
Costco makes most of its profits from the member's annual membership fees, not from price gouging.
Since Costco forces itself to limit the margin it charges on products (15%, see above), driving vendors to reduce prices reduces Costco's revenues. So vendor their supplier charges less, Costco charges less. The emphasis is on providing quality products, not on cheap/shoddy ones with an outrageous markup.
FYI: People in Hawaii love Costco, because they charge the same prices there as on the mainland, not adding in huge markups for shipping like other vendors.
And nobody is forced to sell to Costco.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Monday April 16 2018, @08:03PM
God forbid businessmen negotiate business. Everyone knows that the modern business negotiation involves a 10% cut for both parties right before a trip to the golf course, marked off as a business expense.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bob_super on Monday April 16 2018, @05:16PM
> Costco doesn't mark up its executive pay by much, either. CEO Craig Jelinek earned $5.4 million in compensation in 2013
In the early 2000s, I worked for a $3B company, worth well over $20B, and the CEO was paid under $300k. Sure he owned almost 10% of the stock, so he didn't need it, but that meant that the whole C-suite, who were barely stock-millionaires, was also paid in the 200k range.
Oddly, they didn't have any issues filling positions despite those low low wages.