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posted by mrpg on Friday April 20 2018, @06:14AM   Printer-friendly
from the say-what-again dept.

Vox presents an article about restaurant noise levels and why they've risen over the years.

When the Line Hotel opened in Washington, DC, last December, the cocktail bars, gourmet coffee shops, and restaurants that fill its cavernous lobby drew a lot of buzz. Housed in a century-old church, the space was also reputedly beautiful.

My first visit in February confirmed that the Line was indeed as sleek as my friends and restaurant critics had suggested. There was just one problem: I wanted to leave almost as soon as I walked in. My ears were invaded by a deafening din.

[...] In reckoning with this underappreciated health threat, I’ve been wondering how we got here and why any well-meaning restaurateur would inflict this pain on his or her patrons and staff. I learned that there are a number of reasons — and they mostly have to do with restaurant design trends. In exposing them, I hope restaurateurs will take note: You may be deafening your staff and patrons.


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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20 2018, @06:40AM (23 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20 2018, @06:40AM (#669537)

    Just last week, in fact. We had seen a Pho place online, and went to the wrong side of the street where there just happened to be another Pho place. They were playing music way too loud, and it was almost empty. We realized our mistake, went across the street and the other place was actually more quiet even though it was full. I can't say the meat in the soup was very good though. Part of the problem may be that "fatty" is assumed to be "pure fat" in some soups; but mine was supposed to be a mix of other cuts that are lean. There was gristle. There's no excuse for gristle. I'd give it two stars, and order the meatballs if I ever went back... but I digress.

    The solution to this problem is to not patronize noisy restaurants. As long as patrons tolerate it, it will persist. No bars with live music, OTOH... it's kind of understood it'll be loud but even that can get out of control. This one place we used to go to... so loud people gave up on talking and texted. Nothing I could do to get out of that, except decide to be antisocial with co-workers, so I just dealt with it. That's what happens when you shove an amplified band into a bar that's built into a 20-foot wide urban retail space.

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  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by anubi on Friday April 20 2018, @07:14AM (8 children)

    by anubi (2828) on Friday April 20 2018, @07:14AM (#669541) Journal

    I got ran out of several Starbucks and Border's bookstores when they invited in live musicians.

    Those venues simply weren't designed for that level of acoustical energy, and had it confined. It was like comparing a backrub to a beating.

    Even my Church got so loud I had to leave.

    Is it any surprise why late night TV ( aimed a lot at retired people like me ) is so full of ads for hearing aids? Even though I have not made my plight public on any places where my real name and mailing address are available, somehow I get a lot of mail from hearing doctors and their sales pitches.

    And some of them are telling me to blame one of my previous employers, which I flat refuse to do, because they didn't do it. You can't tell me that the oil refinery I worked at was anywhere near as loud as that Starbucks or in that Church, with kilowatts of power amplifiers in an enclosed room.

    I know the problem is with me, because I can hook my old analog HP651-B audio generator to a speaker, run its frequency up and down, and it sounds to me like the signal generator is malfunctioning and drops output at certain frequencies. However, my oscilloscope, looking at a microphone, does not verify what I think I hear. Its pretty damned obvious to me where my problem is.... I blew out a lot of my cochleas before I realized what was going on. And I should have left that church a lot earlier. But I had to learn the hard way. We humans seem to be awful gullible at times, and do things trying to meet someone else's expectations. Kinda like taking your car on faith to what you believed was a mechanic who understood stuff a lot more than you did, only to find out he's playing you for a fool and has your car phuched up beyond belief.

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Grishnakh on Friday April 20 2018, @12:58PM (3 children)

      by Grishnakh (2831) on Friday April 20 2018, @12:58PM (#669614)

      And I should have left that church a lot earlier.

      This line needs to be emphasized here. It's absolutely true, no matter which church you're talking about, if it's a church in America, and it's not just because of the noise level.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20 2018, @04:13PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20 2018, @04:13PM (#669691)

        Oh, yes, that's right. American churches. The European ones are SO much cooler.

        You are such a pathetic tool.

        • (Score: 4, Funny) by bob_super on Friday April 20 2018, @04:38PM

          by bob_super (1357) on Friday April 20 2018, @04:38PM (#669699)

          > American churches. The European ones are SO much cooler.

          Made of ancient stone, badly heated, and mostly empty outside of Christmas/Easter. They are literally a lot cooler.
          Much much fewer are Evangelical, too.

      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday April 20 2018, @06:00PM

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 20 2018, @06:00PM (#669735) Journal

        You are making assumptions. There are decent churches in the US, at least. I know of three. I don't go to any of them, being a heretical gnostic pagan of the Jungian faith, but they are still good churches. They do their best to promote ethics and self-awareness. And they fulfill a social need that for many people is much stronger than their religious needs.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
    • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by SomeGuy on Friday April 20 2018, @01:02PM (2 children)

      by SomeGuy (5632) on Friday April 20 2018, @01:02PM (#669617)

      Even my Church got so loud I had to leave.

      Because everyone knows that ball gargling must be heard at a bazillion decibels to make people believe in child-molesting imaginary sky fairies.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 26 2018, @08:03AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 26 2018, @08:03AM (#672069)

        It definitely seemed they favor quantity over quality. I came there to hear someone talk about God.

        What I got was an hour of either loud music or browbeating over tithes.

        I now found two TV preachers that filled my need... Les Feldnick out of Kinta, Oklahoma, and Arnold/Dennis Murray out of Gravette, Arkansas.

        Its been my experience that most TV preachers are predatory beggars and have little to do with spirituality.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 26 2018, @12:07PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 26 2018, @12:07PM (#672121)

        child-molesting imaginary sky fairies.

        Are you 13 or something? This is something that edgy Reddit atheists with no actual arguments would post. Your Cognitive Dissonance is really showing.

    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20 2018, @08:44PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20 2018, @08:44PM (#669809)

      Is it any surprise why late night TV ( aimed a lot at retired people like me ) is so full of ads for hearing aids? Even though I have not made my plight public on any places where my real name and mailing address are available, somehow I get a lot of mail from hearing doctors and their sales pitches.

      What? Speak up, sonny!

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by AthanasiusKircher on Friday April 20 2018, @12:50PM (4 children)

    by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Friday April 20 2018, @12:50PM (#669607) Journal

    Part of the problem may be that "fatty" is assumed to be "pure fat" in some soups; but mine was supposed to be a mix of other cuts that are lean. There was gristle. There's no excuse for gristle.

    My understanding is that gristle is actually a common thing in Vietnamese (and other Southeast Asian) cuisines sometimes. Westerners tend to trim it out in most dishes. I've been to several pho restaurants over the years that actually advertise "gristle" as something deliberately added to the soup (e.g., a list of "rare beef, tendon, tripe, gristle,..." etc.). I may be imagining this, but I feel like that inclusion has lessened over the past decade or more as pho has spread and become more popular in the U.S. -- and pho tries more to conform to Western expectations.

    Still, places that offer it usually tend to have soup versions that would definitely not have it. And if you ordered a version that was just "lean beef," it's typically trimmed out. But there is not only an "excuse" for gristle; it's a typical part of the textural experience of pho (which originated in its modern form as cheap street food to deal with the less desirable cuts of beef at a time when the French demanded more beef but mostly consumed the better cuts).

    • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Friday April 20 2018, @12:57PM (1 child)

      by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Friday April 20 2018, @12:57PM (#669613) Journal

      Also (and this is really off-topic, I know, but I can't help)... If you go back and order the meatballs, note that many pho places seem to deliberately include hunks of gristle (and tendon) in their meatball mix. I can't figure out how it would happen otherwise, given the fine grind I've seen with many meatballs -- they must deliberately chop gristle more coarsely to put it in and give texture and flavor.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 21 2018, @11:34AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 21 2018, @11:34AM (#670024)

        Meatballs with gristle is an actual product type not a flaw. Google for recipes and videos.

        I actually prefer that type in most cases, more interesting texture (doesn't normally add flavor).

        If you don't like gristle maybe tell them you don't want those, or eat at a place where they have gristle free alternatives. Same for the meat choices and cuts.

        Don't be like someone who orders a t-bone steak and complains there's a bone ;).

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20 2018, @06:03PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20 2018, @06:03PM (#669738)

      Original AC here. I had a feeling that I might have something
      to learn about Pho, so I'm not going to two-star this place.
      It was packed for a reason. Maybe I'll just have to admit that
      I don't like *authentic* Pho.

      • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday April 20 2018, @07:36PM

        by Immerman (3985) on Friday April 20 2018, @07:36PM (#669781)

        Don't *currently* like authentic pho. There was probably a time you didn't like coffee either - if you like pho , it's quite possibly worth acquiring a taste for "authentic" pho as well, if only to increase the range of dishes you can really enjoy. I'm not a big fan of pho myself, but I can say that once you get used to the unusual texture of gristle it has a lot to offer in many dishes. Fat too - though I much prefer it grilled or smoked to boiled.

  • (Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Friday April 20 2018, @12:54PM (1 child)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Friday April 20 2018, @12:54PM (#669610)

    A while back I tried a "Jimmy Johns" sandwich shop near me. They had music blaring so loud I had to yell when I placed the order. I'd imagine people working there would go deaf quickly. No chance in hell I'm going back there.

    Also noticed similar at a new Zaxby's (Suxby's). Blaring loud music. They had other sanitation problems, and food that wasn't any better than Walmart microwavable frozen crap. Awful place.

    I had a theory that perhaps they were using such loud music to regulate and reduce the number of people eating in, preferring that people use their drive through instead.

    • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Friday April 20 2018, @01:00PM

      by Grishnakh (2831) on Friday April 20 2018, @01:00PM (#669615)

      For chain restaurants, I like Panera Bread, and many of them seem to be reasonably quiet. The food is generally very good for the price, and I've found it to be a nice place to hang out with my laptop and use the free wi-fi. Some locations are better than others for this though, so YMMV.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by ledow on Friday April 20 2018, @02:54PM (5 children)

    by ledow (5567) on Friday April 20 2018, @02:54PM (#669659) Homepage

    In the UK, we have pubs.

    Pubs can be:

    - Quiet family place, roaring fire, oak beams, garden out the back, bartender's dog asleep under the bar etc. etc.
    - Loud "bar" full of raucous sports-fans watching Sky Sports and getting drunk.

    or anywhere in between.

    Literally, if you advertise your pub as having sports on, I walk past. Even if it's not on all the time, only certain days, only in a certain section, etc. Just one sign will do. Same for "live music".

    Similarly, walking into a place if it's heaving and loud, nah. I'll find somewhere else instead. Especially if it's "to be social"... I need to be able to hear my friends!

    Restaurants - it's not nearly so bad a problem in the UK. Even "pubs" can be restaurants (gastro-pubs). But you never really see a restaurant with anything other than light music. Certainly not loud blaring TVs or sports channels.

    If you can't hear when I say "I'm going" and leave... then I will be leaving and you won't notice, so... kind of self-fulfilling. I think the bartenders should be thinking the same. If they can't notice customers coming in because of the racket and business, I'm not going to be noticed when I walk in there, so I'm likely not going to get good service. I'm sure you can make money hand-over-fist in such places, but if I don't get service you won't be seeing *my* money.

    I've walked into a restaurant before now, said "Oh, it's packed, I don't think we'll get a table", and a member of staff has heard me, assured me there are plenty of spaces, and showed me to a an empty seating area, etc.
    If you can't hear your customers doing that, they likely are just going to turn around and walk out.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20 2018, @04:16PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 20 2018, @04:16PM (#669693)

      Hey Grandpa, if the music's too loud, you're too old.

      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday April 20 2018, @06:05PM (3 children)

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 20 2018, @06:05PM (#669741) Journal

        You know, in the '60's lots of people liked to go to places with really loud music. It took a few years, but many of them have ended up deaf. I avoided those places, and I've still got decent hearing. This is just one data point, so don't take it too seriously, but others have reported the same thing, so you might consider it.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
        • (Score: 2) by Nuke on Friday April 20 2018, @07:06PM

          by Nuke (3162) on Friday April 20 2018, @07:06PM (#669766)

          I avoided those [loud] places, and I've still got decent hearing. This is just one data point

          Me too, so two data points. In fact there are millions of data points - any hearing specialist will tell you that loud environments damage your hearing.

        • (Score: 2) by NewNic on Friday April 20 2018, @07:09PM

          by NewNic (6420) on Friday April 20 2018, @07:09PM (#669770) Journal

          Counter example:

          I used to help organize the Saturday night concert every week while I was at university (mid '70s). So, I heard a lot of loud music over a 3 year period decades ago. My hearing is not 100%, but it is still good. I often have trouble hearing my wife, but I think the problem is not my hearing, but my attention.

          My father, on the other hand: worked in his factory his entire career and he had quite severe hearing loss towards the end of his life.

          So, perhaps it's not the loud music in the '60s that caused the problems as much as the loud work environments.

          --
          lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
        • (Score: 2) by ledow on Saturday April 21 2018, @12:32PM

          by ledow (5567) on Saturday April 21 2018, @12:32PM (#670031) Homepage

          To be honest, all the people I see that are into really loud music have that problem. They don't even need to be particularly old.

          And it's self-exacerbating. If you start getting hearing trouble because of the loud music, you turn the music up, which means you damage your hearing more, which means...

          Sure, it's fun to blast out some loud music in the car occasionally, or be at a noisy party. But when that takes preference to every scenario, such as chatting with friends in a pub, etc. then you are exposing yourself to enough of it to damage your hearing. Oh, and seriously hurting your ability to have a conversation that isn't about music and how cool you are.

  • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday April 20 2018, @04:49PM

    by bob_super (1357) on Friday April 20 2018, @04:49PM (#669705)

    Asian food places (except maybe Sushi) are noisy by design. It's considered "lively". Not exactly a surprise to Americans.
    Europeans are much more sensitive to noise pollution (no 140dB cop sirens), so the average restaurant is less systematically noisy, unless it's targeting younger crowds.