SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop. Only 16 submissions in the queue.
SoylentNews
Rafael Avila de Espindola, one of the top contributors to the LLVM compiler toolset, has cut ties with the open source project over what he perceives as code of conduct hypocrisy and support for ethnic favoritism. In a message posted to the LLVM mailing list, de Espindola said he was leaving immediately and cited changes in the community.
LLVM project founder, Chris Lattner responded; "I applaud Rafael for standing by his personal principles, this must have been a hard decision." Lattner also insisted that "it is critical to the long term health of the project that we preserve an inclusive community."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
LLVM Contributor Quits Citing Inclusivity Intolerance
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 143 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
You will be successful in love.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday May 05 2018, @05:05AM (4 children)
I try to avoid double replying but this just keeps coming back to me.
You're RIGHT! And this is why socially retarded but technically adept people manage to coöperate effectively! Because we do NOT typically take much time to show respect up front. Our culture places this value very low on the scale!
We do NOT take the time to show any respect for your retarded submissions! True! And we wouldn't want you to do that for ours either! What point would that serve? If I submit something that's bad then tell me it's bad. I'd appreciate you telling me *why* it's bad but I can't reasonably demand it. Because a million people could be submitting bad code every week.
You show respect AFTER something of value has been contributed! NOT BEFORE! If that's too harsh for you, then there are plenty of other fields that don't work that way! If you're building systems on which human lives depend, then you need to be able to set your ego aside and learn from harsh criticism!
No one likes to be wrong but anyone that's been in a position where they make the call is sometimes wrong! The acid test is how you respond when you are wrong and you are called on it.
Do you play victim? Do you try to coërce everyone around you into covering for you and/or sharing the blame? Do you use those social skills to shield you from the consequences of your mistake, even from ever admitting you were wrong?
Or do you say "oh shit! you're right! I'm on it!" and get your ass in gear and do everything humanly possible to mitigate your mistake?
I do the latter. I want to work with people that do the latter. I want any sort of critical utility upon which my life depends to be staffed with people that do the latter.
And if that hurts your feelings? Good. You needed your feelings hurt. Go savor the pain somewhere else, and let us work, please and thank you.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Sunday May 06 2018, @06:58AM
No, you are still quite incorrect. If you cannot show respect for all people because they are people, and not your little code-contributing robots, then you have already done nothing and can do nothing worthy of respect. I don't particularly care what your technical acumen is. A person who doesn't look at another human being and see that person as human first has no purpose. Period.
Technically adept people can cooperate effectively in some circumstances. It has little to do with technical adeptness. It may have something to do with technically adept people respecting that very adeptness in others. Which is fine until you start devaluing other people as people on that basis. The latter isn't fine.
You can criticize all you want. You can point out a million and one errors and save a billion lives indirectly. If you cannot care about others first then you are nothing, and you have nothing.
People who are shown respect will do exactly what you propose: They will care about the project at hand and move to fix it first. In fact, they will be looking for the problems before you can find them and call their attention to it.
And what I am not saying is you cannot tell somebody they are wrong, or that they have made an error, or even a serious error that must be handled immediately because [pick any number of good reasons here but let's say lives are on the line] that you don't have time to spend so many words on. Nor do you have to prioritize jobs based on a democratic or egalitarian system. (Though a public open-source project may have different apportionment goals.) You can hold people accountable - I am in such a profession now and transferring to another. What I am saying is that when you do, you do so in a manner consistent with some pretty basic and elementary recognition you are talking to a person and not a machine. And it reads to me like you are fairly good at exercising a whip hand and thus have nothing but whipping posts working for you. Sad if true.
Or, you can keep going. Eventually you'll buy yourself a hositle work environment or other harassment lawsuit in the process, which is the penalty for managers who do not understand basics like this. Uber's learning that lesson now, somewhat. Probably not fast enough.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Monday May 07 2018, @12:24PM (2 children)
And then you lose contributors. I've been an LLVM contributor for about a decade, and I'd be annoyed to see this kind of attitude from any member of our community. We have a large number of very productive developers who produced absolute crap in their first patches (myself included - reading my first clang commits from 2008 really makes me cringe - in my defence it was the first nontrivial C++ code I'd written ever and the first C++ code I'd written in about 5 years). The community thrived because people were willing to encourage new contributors and to provide helpful and positive feedback. After a little bit of that, it becomes self sustaining and these people are not only positive contributors, they're also mentoring others. I've been paid to work on LLVM-related things for a lot of the last decade and the community is a big part of the reason that it isn't just something I stop as soon as the working day ends, but instead something that I've been willing to give up my free time to help grow.
I've been in other open source communities where people have the attitude that you have. I've contributed the minimum that I needed to get the work done, and I've moved on and been thankful that I didn't have to deal with them anymore. These projects have very rarely thrived.
sudo mod me up
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday May 07 2018, @06:25PM (1 child)
/me shakes head.
You seem to be sincere so I'm going to try to be nice, but that was a dumb post no matter how you read it.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Friday May 11 2018, @05:01PM
Linux isn't doing so well. Google is investing heavily in Fuscia because the Linux community is so painful to deal with. I'm hearing the same from a number of other companies: it's hard to find people who are competent to do kernel work and willing to interact with Linus and his group. Most of the success of 'Linux' is the success of other projects (Android, KDE, GNOME, and so on), or of out-of-tree forks of Linux (e.g. ChromeOS).
sudo mod me up