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Knives are too Sharp and Filing Down their Points is Solution to Soaring Violent Crime, Judge Says

posted by martyb on Friday June 01 2018, @04:04AM   Printer-friendly
from the pointed-question dept.

An Anonymous Coward writes:

A judge has proposed a nationwide programme to file down the points of kitchen knives as a solution to the country’s soaring knife crime epidemic.

Last week in his valedictory address, retiring Luton Crown Court Judge Nic Madge spoke of his concern that carrying a knife had become routine in some circles and called on the Government to ban the sale of large pointed kitchen knives.

[...] He said laws designed to reduce the availability of weapons to young would-be offenders had had “almost no effect”, since the vast majority had merely taken knives from a cutlery drawer.

[...] He asked: “But why we do need eight-inch or ten-inch kitchen knives with points?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/27/knives-sharp-filing-solution-soaring-violent-crime-judge-says/

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  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 29 2018, @04:21AM (1 child)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 29 2018, @04:21AM (#700114) Journal

    An ideal system of deterrence is, rather trivially, a system that maximally deters crime by means of reliably imposing harsh negative consequences on guilty parties (and not on the innocent).

    And of course, if a system doesn't fully deter crime, then it is not maximal and hence, not ideal. You're begging the question by assuming that a perfect (or "ideal") system is not perfect and going from there. This has nothing to do with the futility of designing perfect systems. If you have a system and it allows for flaws that the system is intended to prevent, then it is not perfect. That's all there is to it.

    Further, I don't agree with even your assertion that you defined a "perfect" system above. You already moved the goalposts by introducing constraints on the operation of the system. It's no longer perfect.

  • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Saturday June 30 2018, @04:23PM

    by Wootery (2341) on Saturday June 30 2018, @04:23PM (#700709)

    And of course, if a system doesn't fully deter crime, then it is not maximal and hence, not ideal.

    Wrong. As I have already explained to you, we are discussing an ideal system of deterrence, which is more constrained than merely a crime-prevention system.

    The word 'deterrence' exists for a reason. It has a specific meaning.

    Deterrence isn't the only means of reducing crime, and deterrence alone cannot reduce crime to zero. I have repeatedly explained this point: a crime of passion cannot be prevented by deterrence, as we aren't dealing with a rational actor. If your system simply jumps in and tasers our would-be-criminal, that isn't deterrence, that's force-based prevention.

    You're begging the question by assuming that a perfect (or "ideal") system is not perfect and going from there.

    Wrong. I am using 'ideal system of deterrence' in the sense of a system of deterrence that cannot be further improved, without making into something other than a system of deterrence. You are using it in an imprecise sense where it must by definition reduce crime to zero, whether or not it still actually qualifies as a system of deterrence (as opposed to some other kind of crime-prevention system).

    If you have a system and it allows for flaws that the system is intended to prevent, then it is not perfect. That's all there is to it.

    Wrong.

    Consider a museum with two ticket gates, each manned by an attendant. Suppose the first attendant is perfect, and never lets anyone through without buying a ticket. Suppose the second attendant is imperfect, and sometimes lets people through who haven't bought a ticket.

    Your position is that Well the first attendant isn't really perfect, as people are still getting into the museum without buying a ticket. This reasoning is clearly unsound. Only the first attendant is perfect, not the system as a whole.

    This mistake even has a name: the fallacy of composition. [logicallyfallacious.com]

    You already moved the goalposts by introducing constraints on the operation of the system.

    It's not moving the goalposts, it's clear thinking. We were discussing systems of deterrence specifically.