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A judge has proposed a nationwide programme to file down the points of kitchen knives as a solution to the country’s soaring knife crime epidemic.
Last week in his valedictory address, retiring Luton Crown Court Judge Nic Madge spoke of his concern that carrying a knife had become routine in some circles and called on the Government to ban the sale of large pointed kitchen knives.
[...] He said laws designed to reduce the availability of weapons to young would-be offenders had had “almost no effect”, since the vast majority had merely taken knives from a cutlery drawer.
[...] He asked: “But why we do need eight-inch or ten-inch kitchen knives with points?
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Knives are too Sharp and Filing Down their Points is Solution to Soaring Violent Crime, Judge Says
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If you are smart enough to know that you're not smart enough to be an
Engineer, then you're in Business.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Friday June 01 2018, @05:03AM (7 children)
Whoever put this under "Slash" should click on that icon and look at the stories there.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 4, Funny) by aristarchus on Friday June 01 2018, @05:28AM
More pionard, with an epee? Slashing is for maritime weapons, like the cutlass.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Friday June 01 2018, @01:28PM
Well I thought it was funny...
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday June 01 2018, @01:51PM (3 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 01 2018, @02:03PM (2 children)
Yup. I guess GP isn't very sharp.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @06:46PM (1 child)
Nice to see you taking the three Rs seriously!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 01 2018, @07:09PM
Your remark lacks cutting power. Hone your skills.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @03:31PM
Your sarcasm detection system failed. Please turn it off and back on then try again.
(Score: 2) by BsAtHome on Friday June 01 2018, @05:13AM (2 children)
So, yes, knives are sharp -> banned
Nails are sharp -> banned
Screws are sharp -> banned
Paper edges are sharp -> banned
Pointy pliers are sharp -> banned
Wooden sticks are sharp -> banned
Screwdrivers are sharp -> banned
Hey, they are killing each other with hard and heavy items and smashing in their heads. Must solve that one too.
Hammers are heavy -> banned
Rocks are heavy -> banned
[long list truncated]
We should ban people, problem solved once and for all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @06:26AM
Best solution (therefore least likely): ban the PC idiots, hang the criminals.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday June 01 2018, @12:02PM
This is some sharp thinking!
YOU ARE BANNED!
Heavy, man...bummer.
YOU ARE BANNED as well!
;)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday June 01 2018, @05:25AM
The Bard said it best:
The king is to blame, and we should get to work bating those blades, an un-envenoming them. Seriously. And avoid English (or wait, isn't this Danish?) wine.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @05:26AM (1 child)
Welcome to the UK, USA.
Get a life, bin that knife!
(fuck these lameness filters)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @05:50AM
Oh well, guess you win this one yanks.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @05:46AM (5 children)
It used to be that you could legally settle a dispute by combat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_by_combat [wikipedia.org]
These days, you can't even fight a criminal who has violently invaded your home. Fighting the criminal will get you a huge prison sentence.
How far a once great nation has fallen!
I suggest they simply adopt all the law of Texas or Florida. The UK has messed up their own law so badly that they need to fork off of something decent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @11:48AM (4 children)
It is a weasel way to perform death sentence to incarcerated criminals without putting it in written law: you find a "volunteer" who demonstrated he takes no shit from nobody, and you let him lose in the pen among the crimos.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday June 01 2018, @01:56PM (3 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @03:29PM (2 children)
Racist! People can't help being muslim!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 01 2018, @05:48PM (1 child)
I hadn't thought about it in that way. No, a Muslim can't help being Muslim, because, if he quits, the rat bastards gang up and kill him!
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 01 2018, @07:12PM
Nah, just move to southern California, pick up a Mexican accent, lose your proof of residency, and claim to be transwetback.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Friday June 01 2018, @07:20AM
There's a long tradition in the UK of judges losing contact with reality*, both magistrates [wikipedia.org] and judges [wikipedia.org], and apart from making headlines in newspapers on slow news days, their kookiest opinions are either ignored or laughed at, as they have little to no actual influence on legislation.
If, however, the same sentiment is expressed by a politician in one of the mainstream parties, that is the time to start worrying, as they have the potential of getting their evidence-free opinions made into law.
A judge or magistrate’s opinion only really matters in a court, and then only in matters of interpretation of the law, where there is a working (if under strain) process to remedy mistakes (the appeal process). Politicians can make new laws, and as many politicians have found - for example, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan or Vladimir Putin - even constitutions need not be a great hindrance to modifying the law to reflect the politician's will.
*E.g. Michael Shrimpton [wikipedia.org], who beleived there was a German plot to attack the UK Olympics with a Russian atom bomb; Sir Jeremiah Harman [wikipedia.org] who, on hearing the nickname of a popular footballer, enquired if the word used was the name of an opera; and Sir Oliver Popplewell" [wikipedia.org], who did not know the (then) popular slang term for a particular portion of well-known UK Olympic athlete's anatomy.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by ledow on Friday June 01 2018, @08:29AM (8 children)
It's short-sighted. It's not how people work. They'll just bring a screwdriver or chisel or something not restricted.
For those that don't know, if you buy any sharp knife or tool in a shop and you look under 16, you're likely to be challenged and asked to provide ID. That doesn't stop you bringing them from home, but it is a restriction on just such things.
However, the policeman will ask "Why are you just walking around at night with:"
- a knife, of any kind, except possibly a folding pocket knife that's not going to be something you can just whip out while also in possession of working clothes/tools having just come from your job.
- a baseball bat, unless you've also got a baseball, etc. and are on the way to/from the park
- a large pair of bolt-cutters.
- an axe
etc.
It's not a question of "you own a knife". Everyone owns a knife. It's a question of "why do you have that knive in this venue". Sharpened or not. My kitchen knives have never left my kitchen and/or possibly the garden. They have no need to.
Once you get into OBVIOUSLY fashioning something into a weapon (e.g. putting a point on a knife that didn't have one), it's already a problem. And even carrying a non-modified knife is a threatening action that indicates possible hostile intent anyway. You can kill someone with a spoon if you jam it in their throat or stomach hard enough.
To echo the gun lobby (at least in part), it's not the weapon, it's the intention. A gun owned with the right paperwork, only stored in a locked box and only opened on a rifle range and where ammo and gun are always separated is probably quite safe (incidentally... with the same caveats, it's legal to have such a gun in the UK! Just not assault rifles!). A gun in your back pocket, concealed or not, while doing the daily shop... that's incredibly worrying (and that's where UK/US gun laws differ vastly).
Knives are the same. What type/kind/size of knive does not matter very much in comparison to "why do you have that on you, here, now?". Kids carrying knives "to guard against the other people carrying knives" is the start of something that logically only ends in all-out war with any weapon of choice. That's why you can't let that stuff start or propagate. It doesn't matter if they're taking rolling pins out to "sort out that other kid"... it's that they apply the role of weapon to an item and think they need to carry one.
I assure you, a battery-powered diamond-cutting saw can make a damn mess of a human being. But people tend not to carry them in their back pocket "for protection". That's the difference.
Justify what's in your pockets and why. That someone can buy a knife with a point is a different matter.
(Please note: I am absolutely 100% pro-gun-control and have never in my entire life touched or fired a real gun, been subjected to threat of a gun - I've seen them on police at airports and that's IT - or had need to. Guns aren't the problem, as such. But rather than too-closely echo the gun lobby, let me clarify - there's no need for a gun in daily life, whatsoever. Even if you use them for sport, there's no need to have them visible, unlocked, accessible, brag about them or carry them anywhere other than the range/hunt. But there is a need for a kitchen knife. Just not walking down the street, unless you literally just bought them and they're still in the packaging. Venue matters more than the weapon, however there are some weapons - assault rifles - where even a single suitable venue is hard to even fathom)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @09:39AM
Now, when you say assault rifle, what do you mean by that? I just want to see, if you know what an assault rifle is, since so many people get it wrong.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @09:41AM
Wrong. Handguns are illegal in the UK, assault rifles are illegal in both the UK and the US. AFAIK nothing in UK legislation would ban ownership of semi-automatic sporting rifles like the AR15 (with appropriate licence conditions).
What percentage of unlawful killings or firearms incidents in the US are because of citizens with a legal concealed carry permit? What percentage of firearms incidents in the UK involve legally obtained and licensed firearms?
Go one further; "why are you here now"? Does it matter if I'm walking down the road with a length of chain, piping or golf club? I'm unlikely to be brandishing these items as offensive weapons and there would always be a reason for my possessing the item. What reason would a school kid in London have for carrying these items and how could it be persecution when the only possible legal explanation is criminal intent?
We have two choices in the UK, we either stamp down on criminals using weapons or we legalise carrying weapons in self defence. But let's not ask the current political left what the answer to the problems they caused should be, criminals are just an oppressed and misunderstood class for them to ruthlessly exploit in their lust for power.
Assault (AKA: fully automatic) rifles (AKA: machine guns) are already illegal for citizens to own in the USA. You can put a bump stock on a semi-automatic and there's no practical difference but the legal distinction remains the trigger mechanism. I submit that you are not "100% pro-gun-control", you simply have not fully thought through the logic of your own arguments. I do not like guns but against a backdrop of stab-fests, acid attacks and terrorism (that the political class lack the will to prevent or deal with) it's time to greatly rethink UK gun legislation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @11:29AM
How do you know this?
(Score: 2) by AssCork on Friday June 01 2018, @01:36PM
I would advise you not to test the courage of your convictions on certain streets in Los Angeles "owned" by certain organized groups of economically disenfranchised youths. They would jump at the chance to educate someone with no visible signs of self-protection on the fallacy their position begets.
To wit; A bull still charges at a vegan, caring not for his dinner plans.
Just popped-out of a tight spot. Came out mostly clean, too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @04:18PM (1 child)
Ah yes, baseball, a game no-one plays locally (or much at all here in the UK - 0.035% of the population going by official guesstimates) yet the local JJB/Sportsdirect used to sell quite a number of the bats, funnily never the balls, just the bats...also, there's not a lot of cricket played up here in Scotland, it is played, but not by your typical Ned, again there's plenty of 'clicky-ba's' sold...the plausible deniability factor being quite a bit higher, and as we've a number of courses locally then there's always golf clubs...
When I have to visit the shops nearest my house after dark (shops featured prominently in 'The Knowhere Guide' for my good town), I usually have my 2D LED Torch on me, mind you, as the last attack at the shops involved someone being sodomised with a sword it might not do me much good..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @07:13PM
FWIF, this [bbc.co.uk] happened just down the hill from the shops mentioned above [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 01 2018, @05:53PM
Well, yes, the gun is safe from harm, under those conditions. But, the gun is also useless. Why own something useless? If you want something useless, go get a pet.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @06:47PM
Well of course you are. I've noticed that the vast majority of people who wish to have their opinions carry weight in matters of gun control have no practical knowledge. I give their opinions as much consideration as I do when a garbage collector wants to make policy on brain surgery. When you fly in coach, do you try to tell the pilot how to manage the aircraft as well?
Over here, we have Constitutional and natural rights including those enshrined by the second amendment. Unfortunately, we also have idiots over here that believe that since they choose not to exercise their rights, nobody else should be able to either. There was a recent study that reported 20% of millennials wanted to use force to silence the rights of free speech among those they disagree with. If you want to start restricting rights, you might want to start with those people's suffrage rights.
(Score: 2) by snufu on Friday June 01 2018, @08:30AM (1 child)
How else am I gonna terrorize the coeds? Next you'll be telling me I can't wear my hockey mask either.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @11:52AM
Kitchen knives? [mirror.co.uk]
(Score: 2) by Subsentient on Friday June 01 2018, @11:37AM (1 child)
Well, this, this is stupid. Really stupid.
People are the problem. Seems like everywhere you go, politics are insane. At least with guns you can say "they are only meant for killing", so there's a slightly stronger argument. (I'm pro-2nd amendment)
Filing down knives. Really.
That's what I call a dystopia.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 2) by AssCork on Friday June 01 2018, @01:40PM
Tisk, tisk.
A hammer is meant to multiply force proportional to the amount of energy expended to wield it.
A knife, being a wedge, is meant to separate things.
A fire arm is designed to deliver a metal fragment, at high speed, to it's intended target.
The skill of which is an olympic sport [wikipedia.org], no less.
Just popped-out of a tight spot. Came out mostly clean, too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @12:35PM (1 child)
Why not make it illegal to carry chef grade knives outside of a kitchen?
Sure if buying one you have a receipt.
If transporting to work then it will be in a container.
Etc
wtf?
People will just grind it down to give it a point
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @07:41PM
Why not make it illegal to carry a concealed penis outside of the home? It might belong to a rapist or child molester. I'm confused.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @02:39PM (1 child)
UK should grind down the thugs.
Blaming the implement he uses misses the source of the problem.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday June 01 2018, @02:42PM
I know, right? They used to be so creative with their sentencing. When's the last time anyone was even put in stocks?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 01 2018, @05:14PM
attack the judges and the cops. now! these are the pigs you are really dealing with.
UK police state [youtube.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Hartree on Friday June 01 2018, @05:18PM (1 child)
There are a few Macgregors in the Scottish part of my family tree so this is hardly new to me:
"Macgregors were forbidden to wear armor or to use any weapons except a blunt knife to carve their food with"
(All the Year Round, by Charles Dickens)
So, "Back to the future." we go.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Friday June 01 2018, @06:03PM
Well, yeah, but Macgregors, right?
Some people think this story is just a joke:
In the old days the English and Scottish armies used to fight by gathering their armies on top of the hills and at day break they would run down the hillside into the deep gorge below to fight.
One morning at dawn there was a fog (as thick as pea soup) and the two generals decided to refrain from fighting that day. Whilst the two armies were resting a voice, with a scottish accent came from within the dense fog.
"Any one scotsman can beat any 10 englishmen".
With this, the english general sent down 10 of his soldiers. There was a hell of a fight and NO ONE returned. An hour later, the same voice was heard.
"Any one scotsman can beat any 50 englishman".
With this the english general sent down 50 of his soldiers. The same thing, a terrible fight ensured and again NO ONE returned. An hour later the same voice.
"Any one scotsman can beat any 100 englishman".
Same same, down went 100 of the best. NO ONE returned. An hour later.
"Any one scotsman can beat any 1,000 englishman".
By this time, the english general had enough and was about to send down his elite soldiers, when he saw a lone englishman crawling up the hill. He was battered to a pulp. As he reached his general he said, "Don't send any more troops down, its a trap, THERES TWO OF THEM".
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by TheSouthernDandy on Friday June 01 2018, @06:13PM
Spoken like someone who has never cooked, nor used a grinder. Or the sharpening stone that's probably sitting not too far from that future roundy dull knife. This is going to make knifey-spooney [youtube.com] so much harder.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by darkfeline on Friday June 01 2018, @10:45PM
There's an easy way to reduce knife crime, just unban guns. Now all of your knife crime is gun crime. If you ban knives, all of your knife crime will now be shiv crime.
People committing violent crime are going to find or make weapons, you can't ban all of them. Banning pointy knives is not going to make all would-be violent criminals into upstanding citizens.
If you want to really fix crime, you have to reduce the number of people who are going to commit crime (but I hear that that's not politically correct in the UK).
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