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It's like Debian Linux, but without systemd.
Release notes are at https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818.
Previously: Devuan ASCII Sprint -- 15-17 Dec. 2017
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Devuan 2.0.0 Released - Debian Without systemd
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* m2 stares at the monitor... it looks like a hamburger...
m2 - that's a bad sign
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 11 2018, @02:38PM (18 children)
The release notes don't say what changed. Is there a summary of the changes? The editor edited out the question.
(Score: 2) by bart9h on Monday June 11 2018, @02:47PM (10 children)
Devuan 1 was based on Jessie, and this new version is based on the Stretch, so it gets updated version of all packages. I think that's what is relevant for most users.
I'm giving Gentoo a try now, but I'll probably get back to Devuan on the next reinstall.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by requerdanos on Monday June 11 2018, @04:00PM (9 children)
It gets updated versions of packages that are both taken from Debian and changed since the previous release. It also gets updated packages that are Devuan-specific and changed since previous release. Packages unchanged since previous release don't get updated versions.
It might be nice to think that "all" packages are updated, and indeed many are.
The most relevant and frankly, stunning, change for free software users is that Devuan, beginning with verison 2.0, has abandoned Debian's position of being all free software.
Debian maintains 'contrib' (free software that depends on nonfree software) and 'non-free' (software that does not meet Debian free software guidelines) repositories as a convenience for its users, but contrib and non-free software are "not at all a part of Debian" and no Debian official media contain any contrib or nonfree software.
Devuan, on the other hand, now includes packages from non-free right on the install media and silently installs them by default if it can match non-free firmware or support packages to the target install hardware.
Quoting from the Release Notes [devuan.org]:
They mention that if someone prefers not to install non-free software, there is an option buried in the "expert install" to avoid it. But people who prefer non-free software are more likely to not install from a non-free install medium.
I see what they were thinking with this change ("convenience over free software"), but a project with priorities like that is damn sure not "Debian Without systemd", as the title somewhat falsely indicates. That would require something like "Devuan free software guidelines" and given that non-free software makes the cut, then there aren't any such guidelines that matter.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 11 2018, @04:45PM (8 children)
I have no problem with this personally. It is really annoying when you try to install Linux to a laptop to find out the wireless adapter drivers. Then you follow a cryptic guide by someone who doesn't care because they hate non-free software and fuck you for wanting your hardware to actually work!
This level of autism is retarded. I don't give a damn, I want my machine to work, and I shouldn't have to spend hours copying files from a USB stick back and forth hoping it works because someone's autism got triggered. Mint used to do this, but they offered an easy to use tool to install non-free drivers. I'd be okay with this too.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by requerdanos on Monday June 11 2018, @05:22PM (5 children)
Then you probably aren't the "for free software users" that I mentioned that it was relevant for.
That isn't why we don't like you. We don't like you because you behave like a rude, demanding, noncontributing ass, and you are spreading false information and discord which didn't previously exist. Your hardware and software preferences don't enter into it.
As for the "wireless drivers", if yours are nonfree and you're ok with that, you should probably install from unofficial but quite readily available non-free CD images with firmware [debian.org] that are linked right from the "Installing Debian 9.4" page on Debian's website. (i.e., neither cryptic nor more trouble than any other installation method.)
Or from Devuan's official images, now that they are all non-free (as are many free-software based operating systems).
Don't worry. With careful study and practice, I am sure you will be able to find the download link that's right for you. They have it highlighted in yellow [debian.org] to help with that. I know that GNU/Linux isn't drop-dead simple, but installers and installation have gotten better and better with time, and now, installing is much simpler than in the past.
As I mentioned, any choice to spend hours copying a wireless driver from a USB stick is probably not the right one for you. The non-free unofficial image is likely to be more helpful in your case. It installs non-free components silently and automatically.
Neither would I have any problem with the choice of using a tool to install non-free drivers, in addition to non-free images created for people who have to have non-free drivers--it would be a lot better than just silently installing non-free software! Having a tool==more choice.
Good luck with your issues, hardware, software, driver, anger, and otherwise.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 11 2018, @06:55PM (2 children)
And quite frankly if firmware is the only non-free item they include, I would suggest they just provide two install cd images if needed. Personally though, we've lost the 'liberated hardware battle' at least on x86. Signed/Binary firmware is required top to bottom now, including reportable serials that can tie your software, hardware, MAC address, and network address together well enough to be (ab)used against you in a court of law. As much as I would like Devuan to avoid using non-free firmware, that would require a chain of current generation hardware that didn't require non-free firmware. And furthermore: The linux kernel had been including non-free firmware directly in the kernel source for years before the non-free firmware package was spun out completely, which is probably in part why they are having to include the non-free firmware drivers today. Linux has not had as clear of of a 'free software only' stance inside the kernel as it should have, and that in part is cause for this situation today.
Anyway, cheers to devuan for succeeding in their 2.0 goal, and here is hoping they start using all devuan signed/hosted packages instead of falling back on debian fileservers for some of their file listings.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 11 2018, @09:13PM
The answer to non-free software is not more non-free software, regardless of how abysmal the current situation is.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:42PM
I really liked Trisquel as a concept but found that I just couldn't use it as my primary OS
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 11 2018, @07:14PM (1 child)
If you're so pure, then don't go buying hardware with nothing but non-free firmware drivers. That way you won't get non-free software installed on your machine.
In the real world, there are people who need to run Devuan on machines available to them, or in the marketplace. Many of them are free software adherents, but they need to be able to get online to start developing free firmware.
(Score: 3, Touché) by requerdanos on Monday June 11 2018, @11:51PM
You may be surprised to learn about what happens in the real world, to judge by your pushing these two contradictory arguments.
In the real world, I have a couple laptops with internal wifi adapters that wouldn't work without non-free firmware/drivers. Because they were "machines available to" me. But to assume that that means "nothing but non-free" is rather unimaginative. The machines work fine with no non-free anything because each has a $5 USB wifi stick from ebay that doesn't require anything non-free to run.
Unless someone tries to install Devuan 2.0 on them, in which case they will get packages installed from non-free even though there is no need for them and every reason not to and no one asked for them.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 11 2018, @06:56PM (1 child)
it's understandable that you are a lazy, whining whore, but you shouldn't expect that every distro pander to your ignorance and dependence. or the disgusting hardware vendors you blindly and so willingly fund. Principled distributions can take a stand for freedom and you can take your whore ass down the road or back to slavewareOS where you likely belong.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 11 2018, @07:50PM
Damn straight I should. If it doesn't work out of the box, you fucked up. Windows and OSX work out of the box just fine, and that is what 99.9% of people care about dumbass. Eat a cinderblock.
Yes such "Principled"people like RMS who writes about having nose sex with flowers. These are the losers who support this nonsense.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DECbot on Monday June 11 2018, @03:08PM (6 children)
One big change, ZFS on root is now supported in the ASCII repository--so there's less dicking around to make that work. Also, Java 8 is in the ASCII repository but not in the Jessie repository (minecraft is the reason I know this). I've been meaning to upgrade, this looks like a good reason to apt-get dist-upgrade.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 3, Funny) by Nerdfest on Monday June 11 2018, @03:46PM (5 children)
Is it possible to run a KDE desktop on it without systemd? I haven't been following the metasticization.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DECbot on Monday June 11 2018, @03:57PM (1 child)
I subscribe to Xfce and MATE desktop enviroments. My last foray into KDE was Slackware 13.37--so, I have no idea about anything current. Though you might be in luck. According to the Devuan website [devuan.org], the default is Xfce, but it can run Cinnamon, KDE, LXQt, and MATE without any special modification. Naturally, this is all without systemd.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:50PM
Yes, but it block systemd packages by default?
no. ferk it. I'll just try it myself..
(Score: 2) by MadTinfoilHatter on Monday June 11 2018, @05:04PM
Yes. I've been running a machine with Devuan Ascii + KDE since the beta came out, and it works fine. I had to do some d*cking around with dbus/consolekit conf files in order to make reboot& shutdown work properly, though. Don't know if they've fixed that for the actual release.
(Score: 3, Informative) by PinkyGigglebrain on Monday June 11 2018, @05:49PM (1 child)
Live DVD of TDE on Devuan [exegnulinux.net] to try out the combo.
Trinity Desktop Environment home page [trinitydesktop.org]
Installation of TDE on a clean Devaun install was a piece of cake. The only issues I've run into so far were all because I did the "Base" install of TDE to keep the disk image small. I've had to manually add some things like ksnapshot and kmix that would have been part of a default install because of it.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday June 11 2018, @11:37PM
I liked KDE3.5 better than current KDEs. The problem is integration with other software, which works with current KDE, but didn't work when I tried Trinity. Since it used to work, my guess is the other software adapted itself to current KDE APIs. But it means that for me Trinity isn't a viable choice. (Mate, xfce, etc. do work, however. So the problem could have been with Trinity ... I tested this a couple of years ago, and they may well have fixed it.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.