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posted by martyb on Friday June 15 2018, @04:01AM   Printer-friendly
from the competition++ dept.

Intel expects to lose some server/data center market share to AMD's Epyc line of chips:

The pitched battle between Intel and AMD has spread to the data center, and while Intel has been forthcoming that it expects to lose some market share in the coming months to AMD, Brian Krzanich's recent comments to Instinet analyst Roman Shah give us some insight into the surprising scope of AMD's threat. Shah recently sat down with Intel CEO Brian Krzanich and Barron's reported on his findings:

Shah relates that Krzanich "was very matter-of-fact in saying that Intel would lose server share to AMD in the second half of the year," which is not news, but he thought it significant that "Mr. Krzanich did not draw a firm line in the sand as it relates to AMD's potential gains in servers; he only indicated that it was Intel's job to not let AMD capture 15-20% market share." (emphasis added).

Furthermore, Intel's problems with the "10nm" node could allow AMD to pick up market share with "7nm" (although it may be similar in performance to Intel's "10nm"):

Nomura Instinet is less bullish on further stock gains for Intel after talking to the chipmaker's CEO, Brian Krzanich. [...] The analyst said Intel's problems in moving to its next-generation chip manufacturing technology may be a factor in its potential market share losses. The chipmaker revealed on its April 26 earnings conference call that it delayed volume production under its 10-nanometer chip manufacturing process to next year. Conversely, AMD said on its call that it plans to start next-generation 7-nanometer chip production in late 2018.

[...] "We see Mr. Krzanich's posture here reflecting the company's inability thus far to sufficiently yield 10nm for volume production while AMD's partner TSMC is currently making good progress on 7nm; thus, setting Intel up for stiff competition again in 2019," the analyst said.

Here are a couple of post-mortem articles on Intel's misleading 28-core CPU demo and more:

Rather than 28 cores, Intel may introduce 20 and 22 core CPUs to compete with AMD's Threadripper 2, along with 8-core Coffee Lake refresh CPUs to compete with Ryzen.


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  • (Score: 2) by Snotnose on Friday June 15 2018, @04:48AM (9 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Friday June 15 2018, @04:48AM (#693337)

    For a while AMD kicked Intel's ass, forcing Intel to get it's act together. Somehow AMD lost that battle. Now AMD has superior chips for less money. Not to mention Intel has all these hardware issues, where AMD only suffers from half of them.

    With luck we'll be seeing some low power ARM chips that can drive 90% of the laptops sold for 50% of the price. With the Evil Empire post Gates porting Windows to ARM, and Linux already supporting it, things might get interesting again.

    --
    When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @04:53AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @04:53AM (#693339)

      It's a highly proprietary, fragmented sector that's only as useful as the binary blobs required to run anything.

      ARM is tripe.

      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday June 15 2018, @09:46AM

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 15 2018, @09:46AM (#693408) Journal

        ARM is tripe.

        Acquired taste, I know, but I like potato and tripe stew.
        I wonder, though, if it tastes the same when one replaces potatoes with microchips.

        (grin)

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @05:09PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @05:09PM (#693578)

        Nope. An ARM is an ARM is an ARM. The CPU is the same (providing it's the same model number). The peripherals built into some of the ARM chips, on the other hand, can be wildly different. No need to be a cookie-cutter clone as in the x86 world. Getting the manufacturers of the ARM chips to see the light and release sources for the proprietary parts...not so easy.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday June 15 2018, @04:54AM (1 child)

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday June 15 2018, @04:54AM (#693340) Journal

      With luck we'll be seeing some low power ARM chips that can drive 90% of the laptops sold for 50% of the price. With the Evil Empire post Gates porting Windows to ARM, and Linux already supporting it, things might get interesting again.

      https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/4/17426766/qualcomm-snapdragon-850-always-connected-pc-features-computex-2018 [theverge.com]

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 16 2018, @04:46AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 16 2018, @04:46AM (#693855)

        Sadly, most of the ARM laptops will likely ship with windows now (the rest will be chromebooks which tend to be very low spec). And, MS forbids computer makers from allowing "secure boot" to be disabled. So, that new (decent spec) ARM hardware will be no more useful than a doorstop.

        MS rules:
        x86: secure boot must be able to be disabled (probably afraid of anti-trust)
        ARM: secure boot must NOT be able to be disabled (maybe they feel safe since nearly all ARM phones and tablets come with locked bootloaders)

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by schad on Friday June 15 2018, @01:31PM (2 children)

      by schad (2398) on Friday June 15 2018, @01:31PM (#693468)

      It's an open secret that Intel wants AMD to remain viable. I've worked at Intel. They view AMD as their hedge against trust-busting. They aren't Microsoft; they don't want to own 100% of the market. They are completely happy owning a highly-profitable 80% with AMD taking up the rest. This is why BK is so matter-of-fact about ceding market share to AMD. He's not trying to stop it. On some level, he may actually be relieved.

      It's like a dad "racing" with his 10-year old son. The dad wants to win, because he's sort of an asshole, so he's running hard. But he doesn't want his son to get so discouraged that he just gives up, either. So if the dad gets too far ahead, he suddenly "gets a cramp" and stops, letting his son pass him. Then the dad starts running again just in time to win by a foot or two. That's what Intel vs. AMD looks like.

      And, as you sort of imply, Intel would much rather be competing with AMD than with ARM. Intel knows how to beat AMD. They've done it plenty of times before. But they haven't managed to beat ARM yet, and they've tried.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @03:41PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @03:41PM (#693538)

        So you are saying intel could release faster, higher core count, cheaper, lower power consumption cpus whenever they want but they don't want to right now?

        • (Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Friday June 15 2018, @09:03PM

          by Aiwendil (531) on Friday June 15 2018, @09:03PM (#693711) Journal

          Yes, they could. Pick any two ;)

          But a bit more serious - yes, they actually can push truly mindboggling stuff out within three to six months at any given time, they scrap more tech per year than some competitors develop during their entire existance.

          The reason why they don't do it - in part to keep profit margins, in part to keep a good grip on the market (lots of the scrapped stuff isn't compatible with their legacy stuff), and in part due to quality issues (making a prototype line is a heck of a lot easier than to make a production line).

          A very visible example of the "almost there but scrapped" is the Larrabee.

          Quite frankly this holds true for most advanced tech areas where the major leaders invest heavily in R&D - if they just decide to skip of safety&quality they could probably advance their field at a rate that would seem the wartime development of tech to seem sluggish.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @07:13PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @07:13PM (#693654)

      screw arm. i want risc-v!

  • (Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @04:51AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @04:51AM (#693338)
    • AMD market cap:   15.30 billion

    • Intel market cap: 257.83 billion

    'Nuf said.

    Invalid form key: 38lYYKiYsW

    Eat a dick, faggots.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday June 15 2018, @04:56AM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday June 15 2018, @04:56AM (#693341) Journal

      Krzanich "was very matter-of-fact in saying that Intel would lose server share to AMD in the second half of the year,"

      STFU, second-class anon scum.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @07:28AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @07:28AM (#693371)

      Invalid form key: 38lYYKiYsW

      Posting this sort of error messages is stupid. It's possible it's an IP and time/date signature in hex format for the dev to look up the logs and see what went wrong. Well, it might be signed with a public key that only soylent can decrypt... And in soylent's case you can just look up their code... But I wager you haven't.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @07:16PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @07:16PM (#693656)

        everyone except you knows what the op meant and what the error refers to. you won't see it on your proprietary chrome browser with the rodger-me addon enabled, though.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday June 15 2018, @09:49AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 15 2018, @09:49AM (#693409) Journal

      I'd much prefer to hold stock in a company with lower capitalisation which delivers better quality stuff than a huge behemoth, thank you.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Friday June 15 2018, @06:51AM (6 children)

    by ilPapa (2366) on Friday June 15 2018, @06:51AM (#693358) Journal

    Why can't AMD produce a processor that will run games better than Intel? I'd like to try AMD in my new build, but I've been burned before. You know what they say, fool me once and I'm a fool but fool me twice and what kind of fool am I? Or something like that. Either way, I don't want to have to wait for Intel's Icky Lake to make a new machine.

    --
    You are still welcome on my lawn.
    • (Score: 2) by drussell on Friday June 15 2018, @07:01AM (4 children)

      by drussell (2678) on Friday June 15 2018, @07:01AM (#693360) Journal

      Why can't AMD produce a processor that will run games better than Intel?

      What kind of games are you running where you're actually CPU-bound?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Aiwendil on Friday June 15 2018, @07:17AM (1 child)

        by Aiwendil (531) on Friday June 15 2018, @07:17AM (#693366) Journal

        No idea about grand parent, but in my archive Dwarf Fortress comes to mind

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @07:30AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @07:30AM (#693372)

          Company of Heroes and Civilization make the CPU bleed its worth.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @10:31PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @10:31PM (#693745)

        Not all of us are stuck at 60Hz. Hitting 120/144 Hz requires very fast single threaded performance.

      • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Friday June 15 2018, @11:45PM

        by ilPapa (2366) on Friday June 15 2018, @11:45PM (#693767) Journal

        What kind of games are you running where you're actually CPU-bound?

        Witcher 3, Just Cause 3, Watchdogs 2, Assassins Creed Origins. Far Cry 5.

        --
        You are still welcome on my lawn.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Friday June 15 2018, @04:06PM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday June 15 2018, @04:06PM (#693554) Journal

      Like Drussell said, most games are GPU-bound. AMD typically leads when core/thread count is important, and has produced CPUs with better price/performance.

      https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-coffee-lake-ryzen-2,5615.html [tomshardware.com]

      Value

      By almost any measure, AMD processors offer more bang for your buck. First, with two equivalent chips, the AMD processor is usually cheaper. For example, at publishing time, the high-end AMD Ryzen 7 2700X ($319) was $20 cheaper than the equivalent Intel chip, the Core i7-8700K ($339) while the mid-range Ryzen 5 2600X ($219) was about $35 less its counterpart, the Core i5-8600K ($244).

      If you want to overclock with Intel, you have to spend extra for a K-series CPU, but with AMD, you can buy a mainstream chip and overclock it. And if you want to overclock your Intel CPU, you need a pricey, Z-Series motherboard, but with AMD, you can overclock with even an inexpensive B-Series board.

      But wait, there's more. The AMD chips all come with really good stock CPU coolers that you might actually want to use while Intel doesn't even give you a fan for its K-series chips and gives you a poor-quality one for the rest of its lineup.

      Winner: AMD Ryzen 2 by a landslide.

      Intel is trying to erase AMD's advantage with mainstream-priced 6 and soon 8-core Coffee Lake. We'll see what AMD pulls out of its hat for 7nm Ryzen 2 [wccftech.com]. 12-16 cores are rumored for next-gen Ryzen, which could make sense if Threadripper has been bumped from 16 to 32 and given the 12/14nm to 7nm die shrink. IPC should also be going up.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
  • (Score: 2) by terrab0t on Friday June 15 2018, @11:09AM (1 child)

    by terrab0t (4674) on Friday June 15 2018, @11:09AM (#693429)

    If the CPU makers are competing to make servers with more processor cores, that should make CPU cores cheaper / more available compared to RAM. Sounds like this is a good time to switch to a multi‐threaded language [golang.org] on the web server.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @07:24PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @07:24PM (#693661)

      i've been wanting to try Swoole [swoole.co.uk] out.

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