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China Finds Zen: Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP
Chinese-designed "Dhyana" x86 processors based on AMD's Zen microarchitecture are beginning to surface from Chinese chip producer Hygon. The processors come as the fruit of AMD's x86 IP licensing agreements with its China-based partners and break the decades-long stranglehold on x86 held by the triumvirate of Intel, AMD and VIA Technologies. Details are also emerging that outline how AMD has managed to stay within the boundaries of the x86 licensing agreements but still allow Chinese-controlled interests to design and sell processors based on the Zen design.
AMD's official statements indicate the company does not sell its final chip designs to its China-based partners. Instead, AMD allows them to design their own processors tailored for the Chinese server market. But the China-produced Hygon "Dhyana" processors are so similar to AMD's EPYC processors that Linux kernel developers have listed vendor IDs and family series numbers as the only difference. In fact, Linux maintainers have simply ported over the EPYC support codes to the Dhyana processor and note that they have successfully run the same patches on AMD's EPYC processors, implying there is little to no differentiation between the chips.
The new chips are surfacing against the backdrop of the trade war between the US and China that could escalate quickly, likely reinforcing China's long-held opinion that a lack of native processor production could be a strategic liability. Today's wars are won with chips, and their strategic importance certainly isn't lost on those in the halls of power. In fact, the Obama administration blocked Intel from selling Xeon processors to China in 2015 over concerns the chips were fueling the country's nuclear programs, and subsequent actions by the US have largely prevented China from achieving the technical know-how and equipment to develop its own chips through acquisitions and mergers.
That makes it even more surprising that AMD has managed to establish a franchise that allows Chinese processor vendors to develop and sell x86 processors in spite of US regulations and the licensing restrictions with Intel, but now more information is coming to light about how AMD pulled off the feat.
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(Score: 4, Interesting) by requerdanos on Sunday July 08 2018, @01:38AM (7 children)
TFA [tomshardware.com] says that "According to the agreement, the final products can only be sold within China's borders", but the Chinese people who trade with the west, as a general rule, are pretty inventive at doing so and I would be very surprised if people outside China could not purchase Dhyana chips at will faster than you can say "Shenzhen". Perhaps at lower prices than their AMD-branded counterparts (but probably not much less).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 08 2018, @02:57AM
All I care is if they licensed the PSP as well.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 08 2018, @02:49PM (2 children)
Does it really take a whole lot of creativity to sell it to a third party local retailer that then goes on to sell the chips on ebay to international customers?
(Score: 2) by requerdanos on Sunday July 08 2018, @04:55PM (1 child)
I don't know. I don't know how the enforcement of the requirement works, and don't know the details; just what was in TFA.
But these chips' very existence is the result of some very creative legal maneuvering to satisfy the law and contract requirements to the letter. It would not surprise me if further creativity were employed to also create a grey market for buyers outside China.
Something I am really looking forward to, in fact, as an expected side benefit of this deal, are Chinese x399 boards in the $99 range that make deploying Epyc and Epyc-like chips affordable for broke hobbyists (like myself). Major-brand high-quality x399 boards are going for around $300 and up [newegg.com]. My current primary workstation is a 10-core 20-thread Xeon that I was able to buy only because they are going for ~$199 as B-grade re-certified product, and there are ~$99 Chinese iX79 boards to go with.
Takes pretty good creativity to make "compatible" motherboards and sustain a market for them, and I don't just hope for it, I fully expect it.
(Score: 2) by requerdanos on Sunday July 08 2018, @10:50PM
Looks like I was a little off base: According Michael Larabel of Phoronix [phoronix.com], "The Dhyana appears to be a SoC-based solution and not socketed."
I wonder what that lineup will look like.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday July 08 2018, @02:49PM (1 child)
How cheap can they go? Ryzen 5 performance at $50?
However the article implies that these will be like Epyc processors, which currently have 8-32 cores and are expected to hit 48 or 64 cores on the 7nm node. Epyc can be pretty expensive so there is a lot of room for China to undercut AMD.
If it's possible to remove or disable any hardware spying, you could have a very interesting chip if it makes its way across the ocean. Except the Chinese companies might add their own spyware.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by requerdanos on Sunday July 08 2018, @04:55PM
That would be a game-changer for the x86 space--a very welcome one.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Monday July 09 2018, @12:14PM
Or, as any number of Western big brands have found out, chips that look, act, and perform exactly identically to the Dhyana's suddenly turn up, but they're not being obviously made at any licensed manufacturing facility or sold by any vendor that stays around for long enough to be prosecuted.