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posted by martyb on Monday July 09 2018, @09:42AM   Printer-friendly
from the nasty-way-to-go dept.

A woman who lived a short distance from where Sergei and Yulia Skripal were poisoned with the Novichok nerve agent has died. Prime Minister Theresa May is "appalled and shocked" by the death:

Police have launched a murder inquiry after a woman exposed to nerve agent Novichok in Wiltshire died. Dawn Sturgess, 44, died in hospital on Sunday evening after falling critically ill on 30 June. Charlie Rowley, 45, who was also exposed to the nerve agent in Amesbury, remains critically ill in hospital.

[...] Officers are still trying to work out how Ms Sturgess and Mr Rowley were exposed to the nerve agent although tests have confirmed they touched a contaminated item with their hands.

[...] Mrs May sent her "thoughts and condolences" and said officials are "working urgently to establish the facts". She said: "The government is committed to providing full support to the local community as it deals with this tragedy." British diplomat Julian King, the European Commissioner responsible for the EU's security union, said: "Those behind this are murderers."

[...] The working hypothesis is that the pair became contaminated after touching a poison container left over from the March attack on Sergei and Yulia Skripal. The death of Dawn Sturgess, a British citizen on British soil, now changes the investigation to a murder inquiry, with all the diplomatic and security ramifications that carries. Britain has been blaming Moscow for the original attack in March, saying there is no plausible alternative to the Kremlin having ordered the assassination attempt. Russia has denied any involvement, suggesting instead this was the action of a weak British government looking to undermine the success of the current World Cup being hosted by Russia.

Here's something from the other side.

Previously: Former Russian Spy Exposed to "Unknown Substance" in Salisbury, England
Use of Nerve Agent Confirmed in Skripal Assassination Attempt
UK Gives Russia Until Midnight to Explain Use of Novichok Nerve Agent


Original Submission

 
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  • (Score: 4, Informative) by tonyPick on Monday July 09 2018, @12:35PM (11 children)

    by tonyPick (1237) on Monday July 09 2018, @12:35PM (#704517) Homepage Journal

    they say these chemicals don't last. They disintegrate. And I hear from many people, they're unstable

    From Vladimir Uglyov, one of the men credited with inventing the “novichok” series of nerve agents [independent.co.uk]:

    “It can persist for years, with nothing much happening to it. ”There is a very, very, slow process of evaporation.”

    According to the now-retired scientist, “novichok” can bury itself in paint, trees, and, perhaps, in wooden benches: “It can get in and remain there for a very long time. If it is on a neutral surface, it will only degrade on account of evaporation. And that would be a long process.”

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @12:50PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @12:50PM (#704522)

    > From Vladimir Uglyov

    wait, is that a real name? A bad guy named Ugly(ov) is really stretching my credibility.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by sorokin on Monday July 09 2018, @02:04PM (2 children)

      by sorokin (187) on Monday July 09 2018, @02:04PM (#704554)

      > A bad guy named Ugly(ov) is really stretching my credibility.

      This is Russian surname and one shouldn't assume any relation to English word "ugly". In Russian the surname Uglyov (Углёв) comes from the word Ugl' (угль) that translates to "coal" in English. -ov (-ов) is a common Russian surname ending.

      • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Monday July 09 2018, @05:25PM

        by Sulla (5173) on Monday July 09 2018, @05:25PM (#704624) Journal

        Found the secret Russian. How absolutely dare you sir understand Russian naming convention.

        --
        Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
      • (Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday July 10 2018, @12:20PM

        by Bot (3902) on Tuesday July 10 2018, @12:20PM (#705013) Journal

        Have you forgotten that coal is the proverbial gift to bad kids? My AI hasn't.

        --
        Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 09 2018, @01:08PM (2 children)

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Monday July 09 2018, @01:08PM (#704532) Homepage Journal

    You left out a little bit of his quote. And didn't tell us you left it out. Little but maybe important. Because it started with "Unlike some of my colleagues, I’ve always said that it is very stable." He has colleagues, they don't agree. No consensus!!!

    • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Monday July 09 2018, @05:27PM

      by Sulla (5173) on Monday July 09 2018, @05:27PM (#704626) Journal

      Shhhh the left is in a hard bind on this one. They either have to trust a [[[Russian]]] or trust a different [[[Russian]]] so they just go with whatever one agrees with their goal of taking us back into the cold war.

      --
      Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 09 2018, @05:40PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Monday July 09 2018, @05:40PM (#704632) Journal

      This FUD is so weak they're trying to convince us that Russia committed more crimes than we're currently accusing them of!

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @01:24PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @01:24PM (#704536)

    Vil Mirzayanov literally wrote the book on it [moonofalabama.org] and it states the substance is unstable and has low resistance to moisture.

    So it's a full strength, liquid form military nerve agent suspended in Vaseline. It went from being smeared on a door handle and not killing 2 victims to killing a homeless junkie four months later? Do you want to buy a bridge?

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by zocalo on Monday July 09 2018, @02:26PM (1 child)

      by zocalo (302) on Monday July 09 2018, @02:26PM (#704561)
      That door swings both ways. Smeared on a door handle for an unknown period of time before the Skirpals came into contact with it (minutes, hours?) = probable exposure to moisture = loss of potency (especially if it's as unstable and has such low resistance to moisture as some are implying). Potentially sealed in an airtight container suitable for safe transport from point of manufacture (regardless of where that may have been) to point of deployment, storage until an opportunity to deploy it presented itself, with the excess substance resealed and discarded until opened by Sturgess and Rowley = less chance of exposure to moisture or other destabilising factors = potential for much higher potency.

      Unless we find out exactly what Sturgess and Rowley found, and what they may have done with it once they did, I'd say it's certainly at least *possible* they found the original source container, then opened it to find a lethal dose of Novichok. We also have no information on the relative health of the Skripals and Sturgess/Rowley prior to exposure - it's also entirely possible that Sturgess simply wasn't up to fighting off even a deteriorated dose of Novichok. Besides, the UK Government's current theory is basically that there is a some other source of Novichok that could have survived for at *least* four months since it was issued for deployment lurking somewhere in the Salisbury countryside; even if that was part of some elaborate smear campaign, surely there's a better and less expensive way of doing that which doesn't entail the expense and resources of the search (faked or not) that must now happen to ensure the container or whatever isn't accidentally found by anyone else - like just announcing that the container had been found, for instance?
      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @04:16PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @04:16PM (#704604)

        A nerve agent many times more deadly than VX [theguardian.com] kills someone 9 days after exposure? Meanwhile we're supposed to believe not only that the agent was carried by a Russian government assassin in non-binary form but also that deployment did not immediately kill the intended target? The head of the OPCW told NYT that 50-100 mg (initially misquoted as 50-100g) were used in the Skripal attack. A nerve agent, over five times as toxic as VX at five to ten times the lethal dose of VX and the intended target was released from hospital after 2 months?

        Their effect on humans was demonstrated by the accidental exposure of Andrei Zheleznyakov, one of the scientists involved in their development, to the residue of an unspecified Novichok agent [wikipedia.org] while working in a Moscow laboratory in May 1987. He was critically injured and took ten days to recover consciousness after the incident. He lost the ability to walk and was treated at a secret clinic in Leningrad for three months afterwards. The agent caused permanent harm, with effects that included "chronic weakness in his arms, a toxic hepatitis that gave rise to cirrhosis of the liver, epilepsy, spells of severe depression, and an inability to read or concentrate that left him totally disabled and unable to work." He never recovered and, after five years of deteriorating health, died in July 1992.

  • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @03:31PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 09 2018, @03:31PM (#704580)

    Parts of Salisbury – where the attack took place – are still cordoned off, and Public Health England has advised anyone who was close by to wash their clothes. This precaution is necessary because we don’t know how long Novichoks persist in the environment, says Boland.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2163502-what-are-novichok-nerve-agents-and-did-russia-do-it/ [newscientist.com]

    We know Novichok agents do persist in the environment for a short time (although this isn’t well determined) and so there is an ongoing concern regarding secondary contact.

    https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/the-science-behind-novichok [unimelb.edu.au]

    In march "they" didnt seem to know how long it persisted. Now "they" say it can "persist for years". What is this based on, actual experiments? Also why wasnt this guy warning people about the persistence when he was interviewed earlier? It seems like a crucial detail.

    https://www.rferl.org/a/novichok-creator-predicts-origin-of-skripal-poison-will-remain-a-mystery/29182827.html [rferl.org]