SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
For those in the US with a combined interest in 3D-Printers, intersections of the 1st and 2nd Amendments, and legal precedents; Cody Wilson has been fighting the US Government for half a decade.
Short version: after Wilson uploaded his 3D pistol plans to his site, over 100,000 people downloaded it - this drew the attention of the US authorities, who tried to use the International Trade in Arms Regulations (ITAR) to force a take-down.
The authorities argued that by posting the 3D printer plans for a firearm, Mr. Wilson was effectively exporting firearms, and subject to federal regulation. Eventually the Department of Justice dropped the case, paving the way for DIY'ers to publish such things freely.
The article cites 'promises' made by DoJ to move the regulations to another department.
Wired's article: A Landmark Legal Shift Opens Pandora's Box for DIY Guns (archive)
Related: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home
Japanese Gun Printer Goes to Jail
Suspected 3D-Printed Gun Parts and Plastic Knuckles Seized in Australia
FedEx Refuses to Ship Defense Distributed's Ghost Gunner CNC Mill
Man Who Used CNC Mill to Manufacture AR-15 "Lowers" Sentenced to 41 Months
Ghost Gunner Software Update Allows the Milling of an M1911 Handgun
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Friday July 13 2018, @12:03AM (24 children)
Now what we need are affordable metal printers.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday July 13 2018, @12:13AM (12 children)
100x faster, 10x cheaper: 3D metal printing is about to go mainstream [newatlas.com]
Desktop Metal's 3D printers aren't cheap, but they're cheaper than the alternatives [theverge.com]
$120k-$360k. Not accessible to the average individual, but a hackerspace or militia group could pool their resources together and get one. Although the hackerspace may have rules against members using equipment to make weapons.
You might be able to find something cheaper. There's plenty of 3d printing hype, I just picked the first one that came up in the search.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by ElizabethGreene on Friday July 13 2018, @01:32AM (3 children)
The Iro3d is the one to watch. Beta units available in the Seattle area for $5k. They are doing basic research on materials right now and it's impressive.
As-is it could print a 99% lower receiver today. You'd only need to run a drill bit through the holes to bring them to the right size, and tumble it so it didn't scratch up your mags.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday July 13 2018, @03:39AM
Thanks, I hadn't heard of that one before - that is very impressive. Not in remotely the same league as Desktop Metal of course, but what do you want for ~1/25th the cost? The quality of the sample "coin" trophy shown seems comparable to a rough sand-casting - more than adequate for many applications. https://hackaday.com/2018/01/15/iro3d-3d-prints-in-powdered-metal/ [hackaday.com]
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Friday July 13 2018, @03:56AM (1 child)
Or you can do lost wax, or use a fdm model for sand casting.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Saturday July 14 2018, @03:11AM
These technologies are combinable in interesting ways too. Lost PLA in Investment is low key awesome.
(Score: 2) by mobydisk on Friday July 13 2018, @02:06AM (7 children)
How does that compare to renting access to a metal shop, or buying the CNC machines yourself? It sounds like that would be a cheaper approach than buying an expensive 3D metal printer. Haven't people been making guns for years using CNC machines?
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Friday July 13 2018, @02:13AM (2 children)
A $10k Tormach is more than capable of turning aluminum billet into a receiver. With a clever programmer you can pull one out every couple of hours.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Friday July 13 2018, @03:29AM (1 child)
I'd say a few per hour. And I have a 5 axis vmc I can use on the weekends, but I'd like the less fortunate to be able to arm themselves too.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Saturday July 14 2018, @03:13AM
Lucky! :)
I have a Sherline that was converted to CNC by an OEM called Light Machines in the 90's. I envy at the material removal rate of real mills.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday July 13 2018, @08:25AM (3 children)
If we're dropping the printer requirement, you can get Cody Wilson's Ghost Gunner. Although maybe ordering the 80% lowers online will become a hassle in the future.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by ElizabethGreene on Saturday July 14 2018, @03:18AM (2 children)
With a CNC mill the 80% thing isn't 100% necessary. You can start with a chunk of bar stock of your heart desires. The annoying thing about AR lowers is that they have geometry that has to be cut on every face. If you don't have a four axis machine you end up having to flip the part 5 or 6 times
#firstworldproblems :D
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 14 2018, @05:35AM (1 child)
One can, by slicing an object to provide one totally flat plane, and then bolting the parts together later, make an AR15 lower in a manner where each machined part requires no flipping or reorienting. Here's a close example: http://weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/Weaponeer/files/2007-10-17_131429_AR_15_Scratch_Built_Receiver.pdf [weaponeer.net] Some of the parts in that design have cuts requiring flipping, but one can further divide those parts into additional slices with one flat side. This would make the process on even a 3axis CNC rather straightforward.
Pictures of completed plans linked above: https://www.guns.com/2013/12/06/bolt-together-ar-15-lower-receiver-3d-printer-necessary/ [guns.com]
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Sunday July 15 2018, @05:53AM
That's kind of a hack. If you were doing a production run you'd set up a jig that holds 5 or 6 parts in the 5 or 6 required orientations. Then you load it up and hit cycle start. The machine does it's thing and the light goes red at the end of the cycle. You walk over, pull out one finished part, move each unfinished part one jig to the right, and slide in a new billet on the first jig. Repeat.
A finished part comes out of the machine every n minutes, where n is largely dependent on the speed of the tool changer. The total material removed isn't huge, the whole billet is ~60 cubic inches. The slowest operations are plunge/spiral cutting in the internal pockets. If you have a fast tool changer, slots, and the HP to do it you can do the plunging with a large drill. That speeds up pocketing significantly.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday July 13 2018, @01:50AM (8 children)
So, the kiddies are going to pump out toy guns, made of pot-metal instead of plastic? Oh, the humanity! If they had any knowledge of firearms and metallurgy, they would see that this is not a good idea, just a stunt, and a rather stupid one, at that. We are talking about material that may have to withstand 35.000 pounds per square inch, and not become a fragmentary grenade. Even cast metal is not suitable; barrels and receivers are best made of forged steel.
Now go back to your video games.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 13 2018, @02:11AM (3 children)
Hey, dude! I should mod you up, for pointing out something that should be obvious. The first 3D printed gun was a POS. The damned thing was as likely to kill the shooter, as it was to kill the target. So far, the art hasn't progressed terribly far. But, some pretty smart people are working on improving it. Metallurgy. Given time, I suspect that alloys will be formulated that can be printed out, giving whatever qualities are necessary for the finished product. Given time, 3D printed weapons are probably going to be equal to, and possibly superior to, the best weapons on the market today.
Time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEvcj_cmn6U [youtube.com]
A MAN Just Won a Gold Medal for Punching a Woman in the Face
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Friday July 13 2018, @04:02AM
Looking at the iro3d, I'd say that once you've fused the steel in the kiln, it object can be heat treated like usual. With a density of 99.8% I'd expect someone vaguely competent would be able to make something that lasts quite well.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday July 13 2018, @05:14AM
Who's first going to seed the web with slightly flawed designs that will blow up in the user's face ?
There's a lesson opportunity for people who hate Americans, people who hate self-armed Americans, and people who hate the idea of non-Americans getting blueprints...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @09:29AM
Is it me or is Runaway starting to a adopt a slightly Trumpian sentence structure and vocabulary? Nothing too obvious yet, just little hints.
(Score: 3, Informative) by mhajicek on Friday July 13 2018, @03:33AM (1 child)
AR lowers, which are the part that's legally a firearm, don't need to hold much force at all. Industry standards are aluminum or fiberglass filled plastic. It's the barrel and bolt that need strength, and those can be mail ordered.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Friday July 13 2018, @04:45AM
That is true now. The idea behind 3d printed guns is that outlawing them becomes pointless. If they outlawed them you couldn't order those off the shelf mass produced parts and would be forced to use whatever you could print or repurpose other metal bits into being components of a weapon. Look at the current nightmare of regulation of "precursors" in the War On Some Drugs to see how crazy that could get before 3d printing got good enough to make the entire thing from raw feed stock.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 14 2018, @01:31AM (1 child)
35ksi sounds like 9mm (or .357 magnum), but why would you use such a high pressure cartridge in a pot-metal barrel?
Wouldn't you choose a cartridge suited to the limitations of your materials and production methods, like .38 special, which delivers ~70% of 9mm's energy at half the pressure? or .45 colt, which matches 9mm's energy at 40% of the pressure? And of course there's nothing wrong with good old buckshot; shotshells run from 11ksi to 14ksi.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday July 14 2018, @02:33AM
And you expect someone doing kewl 3-D printing to have any grasp of such things? Blinded by material science! Ammosexuals with a bomb in their pocket!
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Friday July 13 2018, @04:40AM
All you really need is a CC Milling Machine, at least for receivers.
https://www.google.com/search?q=computer+controled+milling+machine&rlz=1CALEAG_enUS801&oq=computer+controled+milling+machine&aqs=chrome..69i57.32434j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 [google.com]
The Musk/Trump interview appears to have been hacked, but not a DDOS hack...more like A Distributed Denial of Reality.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Friday July 13 2018, @02:35PM
FYI . . . SpaceX 3D prints it's Draco rocket engines. [wikipedia.org] (The small engines on the Dragon 2 capsule.)
Police can legally stop you for having too much tent on your window.
(Score: 3, Touché) by bob_super on Friday July 13 2018, @12:08AM (23 children)
I was really concerned about our ability to procure enough guns.
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Friday July 13 2018, @12:16AM
I'll tell you, you're not the only one. Everybody wants to buy our equipment. So we are helping some of those countries get on line and buy the best equipment. We have many wealthy countries allied with us but we have some that aren’t so wealthy and they did ask me if they could buy the military equipment. And could I help them out. And we will help them out a little bit. We are not going to finance it for them but we will make sure that they are able to get payments and various other things so they can buy. Because the United States makes BY FAR the best military equipment in the world. The best jets, the best missiles, the best guns, the best everything!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by takyon on Friday July 13 2018, @12:17AM (20 children)
"Enough" isn't necessarily the draw. "No serial numbers" and "no gun registration" could be.
And before you say that's stupid, plenty of people here run a certain OS, CPU, or software for paranoia reasons. Printing/milling as many guns as you want without getting put on a watchlist may be an attractive proposition for some.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Informative) by physicsmajor on Friday July 13 2018, @01:02AM (2 children)
It is worth noting that producing one's own firearms has always, at all times, been legal so long as they are not otherwise limited (fully automatic weapons, for example).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @04:24AM (1 child)
That may be true for the US, but isn't the case everywhere else on the planet, e.g. the UK has a 'catch-all' clause in the Firearms Act 1968 which prohibits the manufacture of firearms unless you are a registered firearms dealer, not that I see them quaking in their boots regarding 3D printed firearms (the criminals here can apparently get pistols and fully automatic weapons without too much difficulty), though it will give them a chance to rewrite the laws yet again based on the hyped perceived threat of said devices to sneak more general catch-all restrictions through.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @06:51PM
yes, only poor "migrants" can have guns. bootlicking slaves can only be shot by them and beg for help from the government who made you so vulnerable in the first place.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 13 2018, @01:50AM
A MAN Just Won a Gold Medal for Punching a Woman in the Face
(Score: 3, Interesting) by darkfeline on Friday July 13 2018, @03:01AM (7 children)
Creating the guns isn't a problem. Distributing them is.
You can print as many guns as you want, a single person armed with fifty guns isn't significantly more dangerous than a single person armed with one or two. Hand them out, now you're equipping an army. Sell them, and the IRS will want a word with you too.
I think the situation is perfectly reasonable, and more restricted items should be handled like this. Criminalizing mere possession is just a stupid idea all around, for guns, drugs, child porn, etc. If nothing else, it's just asking for the police to plant evidence.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday July 13 2018, @03:45AM (6 children)
It seems to me there could be a grey area in the "renting access to a 3D printer" realm. I don't sell you parts - I sell you the usage of my machine, and for your convenience here's a selection of popular objects you might like to print. So long as you're the only person to operate the machine or ever lay hands on the gun parts, existing laws would seem to have nothing to say on the matter.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday July 13 2018, @04:50AM (5 children)
I have a hazy memory of some guys who had a CNC machine and the gcode to do a lower receiver. They would rent the machine to customers who would initiate the process by pressing a button. They went to prison for illegally manufacturing firearms.
Now, my seaches haven't turned up this case so maybe my memory is faulty, but it might be worth investigating a bit because if my recollection is correct, this business model will get you a long vacation at Club Fed.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday July 13 2018, @04:56AM (4 children)
Still can't find the case but there is an ATF ruling on the subject: http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Firearms/FirearmsIndustry/atf-ruling-2015-1-manufacturing-and-gunsmithing.pdf [atf.gov]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @07:07AM (1 child)
> controls access to, and use of
AND use of. They don't control the use if the user controls the machine.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday July 14 2018, @05:10AM
If you pay you can use it. If you don't pay you can't use it. Thus the owner controls the use of the machine.
You can argue that "controls" means something else, but then you've already lost because you are being prosecuted, and even if you win (and you CAN totally lose) you lose. The process is punishment enough.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday July 13 2018, @01:43PM (1 child)
Hmm, that would seem to cover my scenario, wouldn't it?
Might also prove a rude wake-up call for maker spaces, as they'll likely be on the front line of public access to high-quality 3D printing hardware, as well as other automated machining tools. Best keep an eye on exactly what your clients are making.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday July 14 2018, @05:11AM
Before I got my own printer, my local makerspace was very explicit in the prohibition on using any of their machinery for making firearms.
(Score: 2) by http on Friday July 13 2018, @04:20AM (7 children)
that's hardly a concern in the USA. what registration there is, is deliberately not comptuer-searchable [vice.com].
If the average person really understood just how impossibly time consuming it is to do a registration search, homicide rates would balloon. Just remember CSI, Law & Order, Bones... fiction in more ways than one.
I browse at -1 when I have mod points. It's unsettling.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday July 13 2018, @05:04AM (6 children)
This is true only of the Federal Gov't. Many states have registration schemes. For example, in WA state, the Department of Licensing keeps track of handguns (but not rifles for now): http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.129 [wa.gov]
And while the statute says "may" -- the state is working hard to get through its backlog, so it is doing it. http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/dec/18/washington-state-gun-database-lacks-info-on-thousa/ [spokesman.com]
The specific data collected is comprehensive: "At the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol, the purchaser shall sign in triplicate and deliver to the dealer an application containing his or her full name, residential address, date and place of birth, race, and gender; the date and hour of the application; the applicant's driver's license number or state identification card number; a description of the pistol including the make, model, caliber and manufacturer's number if available at the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol." http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.090 [wa.gov]
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday July 13 2018, @01:56PM (4 children)
>keeps track of handguns (but not rifles for now)
Makes sense - handguns, like assault rifles, are designed for the express purpose of shooting people. Hopefully in situations where it's justified (e.g. self defense), but still. And unlike assault rifles, handguns are cheap, easily concealable, and widely popular.
(Score: 2, Informative) by redneckmother on Friday July 13 2018, @04:07PM (1 child)
Ignoring the term "assault rifle", which is controversial.
Pistols are designed for both hunting and self defense. Come on out to the Western US, where we have critters that'll put a real hurt on you. All my friends and neighbors own at least one pistol, shotgun, AND rifle.
An AR-15 with a high capacity magazine is REALLY USEFUL when one is confronted by a large pack of Javelina or feral hogs. I'm not speaking hypothetically, but from real experience. Predator control and deer hunting are other primary uses.
A Taurus Judge is handy to have when the rattlers are about. Again, real experiences.
Just sayin'.
Mas cerveza por favor.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Saturday July 14 2018, @01:06PM
I live in the Western US, and yeah, we have some critters that will put the hurt on you if you piss them off. Most of them will be a real problem by the time they're close enough for a handgun to be useful, assuming a handgun will do more than just piss them off in the first place. As I heard someone say once - if you ever get attacked by a bear when all you have is a handgun - wait until it's about to eat you, then shove your arm in its mouth and start firing. And pray you do enough damage to chase it off before you lose your arm.
That said, you pissing them off is pretty much the only way you'll have a problem - bears, mountain lions, rattle snakes, etc. all know better than to tangle with humans if they can avoid it. I've run into all of them in the woods and never had a problem. I've heard a young, hungry mountain lion will occasionally attack a human, but you mostly have to be stupid enough to walk underneath it first, in which case you'll likely be dead before you can draw your weapon anyway. A pack of wolves are pretty much the only thing that might hunt you intentionally, and mostly only if you're already in trouble - they're not stupid either.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @06:55PM (1 child)
there's no such thing as an "assault rifle", you propagandist.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Saturday July 14 2018, @12:51PM
Oh? And what would you call the fully automatic short-barrel rifles typically given to military ground troops around the world?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @04:27PM
Why do they need to know your race?
Lots of people aren't even sure. Are they supposed to use the "one drop rule" like the slave states used?
GET OVER IT.
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Friday July 13 2018, @02:43PM
Your post gave me an Ah Ha moment of inspiration.
We will never be allowed to have 3D printers that print metal. The NRA will never allow 3D metal printers. The NRA does not represent citizens, nor does it represent citizens interests. It represents gun manufacturers and ONLY gun manufacturers interests while masquerading as protecting citizens rights.
Public Service Message: The NRA wants you to know that drinking and firearms do not go together! Take turns shooting. The person who's turn it is to shoot should not be drinking. Someone else in the group should hold their drink for them.
Police can legally stop you for having too much tent on your window.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday July 13 2018, @12:26AM (12 children)
What greatly amused me was that the DoJ in its settlement acknowledged that non-automatic firearms up to .50 caliber, including semi-automatic sport rifles, like say the AR-15, are not inherently military.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Friday July 13 2018, @01:45AM (4 children)
This whole take-down is a clear example of the law of unintended consequences. Wilson published the files for a single shot (per barrel) fragile plastic gun shooting an anemic cartridge. The Feds order him to stop distributing the files. He decides to file a lawsuit but it will cost at least several hundred thousand dollars which he doesn't have. In order to fund that lawsuit, Wilson and his team develop the Ghost Gunner, a CNC mill that allows people to finish 80% lower receivers (the actual gun for legal purposes) for both the AR15 and 1911 pistol. So what the gov't ended up with is BOTH the files for the toy being available, and thousands of desktop CNC machines capable of cranking real full power weapons. The price of being heavy handed.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday July 13 2018, @01:45AM (3 children)
I meant to add above, that unintended consequence is what I find to be the most amusing part. Sigh. Preview.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @03:57AM (2 children)
Can you get the 1911/AR15 80 percent kits in a manner that is actually anonymous?
Mail ordering isn't anonymous (credit card and mailing address), and buying from a gun shop isn't (you can be 9/10 or more of them are funnelling video feeds directly to the feds now to keep from having in-person visits on a basis bordering on but not surpassing the qualifications for harassment.)
Taken in that context, does allowing lower recievers really make a difference, or just provide a false sense of complacency while the g-men careless dot their i's and cross their t's and get ready for the crackdown of all crackdowns?
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday July 13 2018, @04:23AM
80% lowers are a cheat. Better to just buy bar stock and do a 0% lower: https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=60&step=2&top_cat=1 [onlinemetals.com] Even better, get it at a scrap yard. Or melt aluminum cans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on1d9Bz34bU [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 14 2018, @02:28AM
You can gain a measure of privacy by getting some other guy to order the 80% receiver and parts kit online, and sell it to you for cash; it's not a firearm, so there's no legal "straw purchase" concerns.
But of course that's not really anonymous, because most people approached by a total stranger with such an offer would suspect it for some sort of ATF trap; only someone who knows you would be willing to participate.
That crackdown is never happening. There's too much risk of a literal cold-dead-hands martyr inspiring widespread rebellion against those knocking on doors and taking guns. Whether that revolt is successful (whatever that means), embroils the nation in endless civil war, or just gets squashed like so many bugs, the one constant is it that it ends badly for whoever gave the confiscation order.
So guns may be outlawed, and people may be told to turn them in, but there will be no immediate effort to round up those who don't comply. If people keep them in defiance of the law, they must keep them hidden, and not tell others about them. From there, the problem takes care of itself. Within a generation or two, and depending how careful their owners were about the hiding and shutting up, the guns are either already siezed after the owner blabbed to the wrong person, being discovered in the attic by kids who dutifully turn them over to the police, or lost in a buried cache that nobody knows about.
The more rational concern is not a massive crackdown, but that you as an individual become interesting (for whatever reason) to someone in some law enforcement agency, and in searching for dirt on you, they turn up 80% receiver and/or parts kit purchases.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Friday July 13 2018, @03:52AM (6 children)
What I find, I won't say "amusing", but rather "interesting", is that in the 1930's the Supreme Court was of the opinion that military weapons were constitutionally protected, and that a sawed off shotgun could be banned expressly because it was NOT a military weapon.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @05:52AM (1 child)
which was still wrong. sawed off shotguns were use in ww1. they called them "trench guns."
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday July 13 2018, @11:38AM
For that matter, they're used by the US right now in urban environments for breeching. They blow locks off things a lot better than a rifle. The rifle's still more generally useful though so you're not going to see them used for much of anything else.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday July 13 2018, @06:24AM (2 children)
In Heller, Scalia walked the Miller decision way back. Miller was a weird case anyway -- the defendant died before the appeal and only the Government presented any argument or briefing. Miller's and Heller's discussions of short barreled shotguns may have different had there been some sort defense by Miller because way back when, when highway robbery was a real thing, Ithica manufactured a short barreled shotgun for defensive purposes, the Ithica Auto & Burglar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf_ENP3QyAE [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 14 2018, @02:39AM (1 child)
I love that phrasing -- it would be "startling" for the previous decision to mean what it plainly says, so let's find something else for it to mean.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday July 14 2018, @05:14AM
Personally, I think Scalia danced around Miller because if he overruled it, there would be a serious question about whether it is Constitutional to ban automatic firearms.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @07:11PM
any excuse to violate people's rights. that's the government, who's supposed job is exactly the opposite.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by jmorris on Friday July 13 2018, @01:28AM (15 children)
The Soviet Union and other Communist countries tried to maintain firm control of printing presses and all other mass media. The photocopier and laser printer smashed that plan. Wide availability of small concealable sat dishes and the VCR put the final nails into the coffin of that plan and soon the Soviet Union itself.
America didn't go for overt government control but all media was controlled by carefully controlled Deep State Jews at roughly six (precise configuration and number has varied by remained fairly consistent at "large enough to create the illusion of choice but small enough to tightly control") conglomerates. The illusion of freedom allowed U.S. control over mass media to survive until the Internet finally smashed it to bits. Desperate attempts to impose censorship on the Internet are currently ongoing but are almost certain to fail.
Now the same process is playing out with arms control and the rise of 3d printing. It will always be possible to buy a factory made weapon that is better and cheaper than a 3d printed one, if it is legal. Much the same way a mass printed book is better and cheaper than one run off on a laser printer or photocopied. A mass pressed DVD is better than a multi-generation VHS copy, etc. But first in the U.S. and then the whole world, 3d printing means the choice is no longer allow civilian ownership of small arms or ban it but allow open / semi-regulated sales or underground 3d printed ones with no trace at all in the official system. Outright bans won't be an option much longer. Controlling where one can carry will be for a bit longer, until people get tired of the danger of "gun free zones" and demand they be either eliminated or actually policed heavilly enough to actually be safe.
Tight central control over the radio spectrum is similarly threatened by SDR, fixed purpose, tightly regulated radios replaced with software.
(Score: 3, Touché) by hemocyanin on Friday July 13 2018, @01:48AM (6 children)
Often enough I like what you say but then you come back and remind why I have a red faced frownie next to your name.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by mobydisk on Friday July 13 2018, @02:15AM (5 children)
IKR! I have mod points, and I am reading the first paragraph thinking "oh, that's a good point, history is repeating itself." Then the second paragraph comes along and I had to read it 3 times because the word "Jews" makes no sense whatsoever in this context. I thought it was a misspelling so I'm trying to figure out what word he meant. Then I am thinking "maybe it was a voice to text thing and Siri screwed up." It was confusing as heck! It's like if you were sitting in class and your math teacher was says "Okay class: First you add the ones digits to get 12, then you carry the 1, then the Jews steal your life, then you add..." I kinda want to try reposting the comment but without the racist garbage, and see if I get modded up.
(Score: 3, Touché) by AthanasiusKircher on Friday July 13 2018, @03:01AM
It's jmorris. It's just what jmorris does.
I am at times tempted to mod him up too, but inevitably the next sentence comes and there's some wacko thing about Jews. Every single time.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by jmorris on Friday July 13 2018, @03:57AM (3 children)
Look at the ownership of all of the major media companies. Not most. All of them. Then look at the news business in particular. This isn't an imageboard but those damning JPGs for CNN, NBC, NYT, FOX and NPR are widely available. Every news organization is run by, staffed by and generally dominated by Jews at concentrations so far above their representation in the population that there is zero chance of it being a coincidence.
Just as an example, from the one that got the creator doxxed by CNN, lets take a look at CNN. At the time the infamous image was created:
Jewish President and majority of the C-level leadership are Jewish at the parent Warner.
The President of CNN is Jewish as is the Vice President and a majority of the Executive Vice Presidents.
Moving to on screen talent the Lead Political Anchor, Chief Political Correspondent, Chief Political Analyst, Chief Political Director, Chief National Correspondent and Chief Washington Correspondent are all Jewish. A majority of the shows, at least thirteen, are hosted by Jews.
Lets broaden to the flagship Sunday Morning shows
NBC: Meet the Press with Chuck Todd (Jew)
ABC: This Week with George Stephanopoulos (Not Jewish, he has the job because he is a Clinton Minion) and co-host Martha Radditz (Jew)
CBS: Face the Nation with a recent change to Margaret Brennan who provides the exception to the rule. Just for extra diversity she is a Muslim convert. And she is a paid up member of the CFR so her Globalist bonafides are sound.
FOX: Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace (Jew)
FNC: Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Bartiromo (Married to a Jew)
CNN: State of the Union with Jake Tapper (Jew)
And while we are noticing things, notice how they are all so ideologically similar. All were unquestionably "With Her" but Martha is the only one seen crying on air the night HRC went down to defeat.... You say Maria is on FNC so not her? Oh yea, she is a huge donor to the Clinton Foundation and worse.
The same pattern repeats with monotonous regularity across the rest of the cable dial. And in broadcast, print publishing, the music industry, film, etc. Not just any Jews mind ya, a very specific sort. Not the religious type, the secular Bolshevik sort.
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Friday July 13 2018, @04:13AM (2 children)
Don't obsess over the jews, look at the pattern of unscrupulous, overweight, white men in positions of power *everywhere*, not just the media.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Friday July 13 2018, @04:21AM (1 child)
Only when Quantum Jews are in the "White" state. :)
You see "Jew" is a Quantum state of being, it can be a religion, a race, an ethnic background, a culture or many Jews can be "White" as needed. This is very handy for when they want to pontificate about "their fellow white people" and what "we" should do to hasten "our" passage from the Earth.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @09:47PM
He's a troll, like EF but somehow even LESS self-aware. I'm often tempted to write a browser plugin for soylentnews which removes all posts from certain users from the page. Never read dumb shit again! Implement your own filters to keep out the necro-troll, etc.
(Score: 3, Touché) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday July 13 2018, @01:54AM (5 children)
You must be unfamiliar with the Internet
Get back to me when you can link me in uncensored news website whose Alexa Rank is less than a hundred
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by ewk on Friday July 13 2018, @01:40PM (4 children)
About this 'unfamiliar' claim... you do realize that 'the Internet' is a bit more than just (censored or uncensored) news websites?
I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @07:22PM (1 child)
Yes, but how is porn relevant here?
(Score: 2) by ewk on Saturday July 14 2018, @10:38AM
The amount of porn consumed through other means than a website probably isn't.
But, (the kind, quality, quantity, availability of) porn in itself is one of the indicators about the state of a society.
With that is it maybe on par, but probably even more relevant, compared to weapon related behaviour and laws :-D
I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday July 14 2018, @12:48AM (1 child)
Take all the people who use the Internet in any way.
Now take just one example person, whose time is divided among those any ways in proportion to how the whole world's population uses each service on the Internet.
Most of that person's time will be spent on Facebook, with a modest amount of time on news websites that consist largely of propaganda, as well as a substantial amount of time listening to RIAA Label-Signed "musicians".
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Touché) by ewk on Saturday July 14 2018, @10:32AM
A simple 'yes' would have sufficed :-)
I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Friday July 13 2018, @06:08AM (1 child)
No, it did not. Neither photocopiers nor laser printers were widely available USSR time. Not in the other East European countries in the communist block.
Photocopiers were massive, required special technician maintenance** and the access to them was heavily controlled.
To even own a mechanical typing machine, one needed to go and register it with the police.
** (for in 1984, 5 years before the fall of communism, an HP laserjet [wikipedia.org] was "sold for $3500,[12] had trouble with even small, low resolution graphics, and weighed 32 kg (71 lb)."
Really, what alternate reality are you living in? Handwritten and low tech info exchange was the norm at those time [wikipedia.org].
Wanna see the "walkman" of those times in USSR? Here's an example [reverb.com].
VCR? Not in the private ownership, unless you were the progeny of a apparatchik of above medium level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday July 13 2018, @03:12PM
Off topic: I heard that Xerox service people dressed like spies would service equipment in the Soviet Union and plant and retrieve bugging devices on equipment used at *cough* certain *cough* locations.
Police can legally stop you for having too much tent on your window.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday July 13 2018, @01:50AM
It's a razor-sharp metal loop with a handle
When word gets out that some Kurosawa posted the detailed procedure for performing Dilation and Curettage at Kuro5hin, its going to become far harder to obtain Curettes than it is for me to find a Facebook Friend who is not in reality a Nigerian Sole Proprietor
Also known as Dusting and Cleaning, D&Cs are commonly used to perform first trimester abortions
Sorry I don't have the link but Real Soon Now I'll dig it out of The Wayback Machine
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 13 2018, @02:05AM
People worry so much about mass shooters. But, those people who worry the most, simply cannot conceive that they have helped "enable" or "empower" the crazies. So called "gun free zones" are beacons to crazy bastards looking for a body count. They shine like the runways at airports, calling out, "Here, you can find satisfaction! Here, you can find unarmed sheep for the slaughter!"
And, the harder the hoplophobes fight to disarm everyone, the more tempting a target they become.
A MAN Just Won a Gold Medal for Punching a Woman in the Face
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @02:16AM (6 children)
when I can 3D print a nuclear weapon.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 13 2018, @02:30AM (1 child)
That's probably not especially hard. The expense will come when you try to fill the printer with fissionable material. You think printer ink is expensive, the fissionable stuff will blow your mind!
A MAN Just Won a Gold Medal for Punching a Woman in the Face
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday July 13 2018, @05:24AM
If HP could sell radioactive ink cartridges, they would.
Not only would the ink be even more expensive (but hey, "it glow in the dark, right?"), they wouldn't even have to keep using those counters that disable the printer after a couple years.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Friday July 13 2018, @03:37AM (3 children)
If memory serves there are 2 kinds of atomic bombs. Uranium is a bitch to refine, but once you have it making the bomb is easy (slam 2 chunks together). Making plutonium is easy if you have a reactor, but making a bomb out of it is a bitch.
Hydrogen bombs, on then other hand....
These are 20+ year old memories so keep a grain of salt handy.
The secret to success is to never run from hard work. A brisk walk usually suffices.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday July 13 2018, @08:40AM (2 children)
The next step in weapons development could be the development of a pure fusion weapon [wikipedia.org]. Hypothetical for now, but if developed it would remove the need for fissile material altogether.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Saturday July 14 2018, @03:36AM (1 child)
In the most respectful manner possible I must ask you not to speak of this. They'll ban consumer access to superconductors if you mention stuff like that.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday July 14 2018, @05:00AM
And they will try to ban cheap gene editing and related stuff because it could be used to create new life, and unmonitored high performance computers or neuromorphic chips because they could run a strong AI capable of becoming Skynet-like.
Unfortunately, just as with the Drug War, banning these things will only delay the inevitable (and none of them are as easy to track as fissile material).[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @02:35PM (3 children)
This isn't really about 3d printed guns. It's about the government's ability to restrict knowledge transfer among citizens.
Freedom in general won today. The fact its about gun plans is incidental.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @02:37PM
Argh auto correct. Clearly that should have said short not shirt.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @07:18PM
exactly. just like the war on drugs is a war on personal freedom or the government telling you what medicine you can use. hopefully the internet will make this level of deception impossible eventually.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 13 2018, @07:29PM
If only the victory was that clear. The case wasn't won in a court of law, there's no precedent set that distributing gun plans is clearly protected by the 1st amendment. The government offered to settle out of court rather than lose in it, and the plaintiffs accepted instead of spending millions more to attempt to set precedent and have something they could actually bank on in the future.
I'm not sure today's agreement prohibits the feds from trying again in a different political climate, and the wording seems explicitly clear that if they push the bounds into >=50 caliber weapons or such they will definitely be in court again...
So not as clear a victory as could be hoped for.
(Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Monday July 16 2018, @12:25PM
Manufacturing your owns guns, and telling others how to, has always been perfectly legal to do.
This ruling is just a judge telling US Government to stop misusing their power in illegally prosecuting this man.