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Another German state plans switch back from Linux to Windows
The German state of Lower Saxony plans to follow Munich's example, and migrate a reported 13,000 users from Linux back to Windows.
Apparently undaunted by the cost of the Munich switch (which we reported in January could be as much as €100m), Lower Saxony is considering making the change in its tax office. The state seems to expect a much cheaper transition, with Heise (in German here) reporting the first-year budget is €5.9m, and another €7m further out.
The tax office argues its decision is driven by compatibility: field workers and teleworkers overwhelmingly use Windows, while the OpenSUSE variants are installed on its office workstations. The office workstations are also ageing and due for replacement, something that helped open the door for Windows.
Related: Linux Champion Munich Takes Decisive Step Towards Returning to Windows
Munich Switching From Linux to Windows 10
German Documentary on Relations Between Microsoft and Public Administration Now Available in English
(Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday July 28 2018, @03:04PM (11 children)
> To them, any divergence from what they already know and are familiar with is just a headache.
That's why I still use a non systemd distro.
The headache, under windows, will come every time the management decide that a UX radical change is needed to gain 1 cent more. So, true, but still an excuse.
Bureaucrats need windows OR systemd. It's the scapegoat.
The only way for them to choose the best overall system is to make them pay for the infrastructure out of their own money. Do that and see how they plug a keyboard to their phone and proclaim that really all they need was email and a database which can run fine on that old core 2 duo for decades.
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(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday July 28 2018, @03:51PM (5 children)
Happily, I'm ignorant enough of the non systemd methods that I can find equivalent systemd help via Google and get by just fine with the systemd distros.
As a bonus, they also seem to perform better: highly visible during boot times.
I'm sure if I were a super wizard with the old incantations, I'd resent having to learn something new, especially during its development when advantages were dubious and disadvantages were highly visible. As it is, systemd serves me well enough, and staying with the mainstream distros also reduces headache and handwork for me.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 28 2018, @04:44PM (2 children)
I use Devuan on my systems. Like Linux used to be, less complex, boots up and then gets out of the way for the application. Reduces headache and hassle for me.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 28 2018, @05:10PM
I've put Devuan on my embedded systems. SystemD for 25s faster boot times? These fuckers shouldn't reboot at all. SystemD for "seat management"? Lunacy. These machines have one job, controlling hardware, not running 50 keyboards and screens from the same computer.
Someone mentioned before how Linux pushed Windoze out of the data centers because it was the best server OS. So the distro people declare that every Linux should have facilities for desktops shoehorned in? I'd rather be running BSD, if the Linux kernel weren't so much more capable on all kinds of hardware.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday July 29 2018, @07:54AM
Well, by sheer coincidence, I actually tried to install Devuan Ascii on a computer yesterday. I am a dedicated linux user, having used it solely since about 2005.
Firstly, it was like going back a decade. I know how to partition disks, but why should I have to? I also know how to light a fire by the methods used by our ancestors, but I wouldn't recommend it for every day use - we've mastered central heating. Devuan asks me to partition my disks. Every other distro in the last 10 years does this automatically, but not Devuan.
Most distros install in about 10-15 minutes with my internet connection (for updates) but not Devuan. Over twice as long but for no apparent reason. And finally it failed to install grub, so the entire thing would not boot until I got my hands dirty again and finished off doing what Devuan could not.
And it didn't install updates from the internet - unlike Debian from which it is supposedly forked, nor could I select English (GB) as only English (US) was given as an option. So for me it is a distro that I will quite happily live without.
I realise that many of you will respond that it works for you, and I am very pleased for you. But I am just as happy using a different distro that just does what it says and lets me get on with using the computer rather than playing with it. Systemd works, I've personally never heard of anyone having any of the problems that the doom-and-gloom merchants predicted would happen. I'm sure that they have occurred somewhere, but not in the numbers that were first imagined.
And that might be the same problem that Linux is having being accepted in Germany. It might be that the politicians are corrupt, but it might also be that there are enough oddball examples which make it simply harder to support for someone who doesn't want to partition disks manually, or would like to use their own language rather than one that is 'suggested' as being the correct one.
On the other side of the coin, the experience in Lower Saxony demonstrates the very reason that they initially elected to switch to Linux in the first instance. They are locked in to Window's proprietary formats with the inability to transfer data between Window's systems in the field and office systems running Linux. So their solution to that problem seems to be to roll over and accept the proprietary system.... I hope that make sense to them, it doesn't to me.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday July 28 2018, @08:41PM (1 child)
I'm running a mix of Void and Artix, both with Runit init system, and my machines are at the SDDM prompt in 10 seconds, less the time it takes me to type in and validate the LUKS passphrase. Systemd is no faster than Runit, and in my experience, slower. It's even better than OpenRC, which was my first init as I started on Gentoo.
Give Artix a try if you're not running anything mission-critical (it is still an Arch-alike after all...).
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday July 28 2018, @09:58PM
My main boot-time experience with systemd vs not was on Raspbian... I think they're systemd by default now, but at a point in the past it was an option, an option that reduced boot time by about 50%. Surely both can be tweaked and tuned to similar speeds, but that seems like work best left to other people, especially with mainstream hardware like a Pi.
My new desktop is a NUC 7i5 running Ubuntu 18.04 - it had a hiccough in boot time, was running > 1 minute, but was pretty quick and easy to find the culprit and the fix, I'm at desktop with gmail loaded within about 20 seconds from power on now, fast enough for me to shutdown without thinking about how long it's going to take to boot back up.
I did the Gentoo thing, long ago when Gentoo was the only 64 bit option out there... when that machine died of terminal dust impaction, I loaded Ubuntu on the next one and never looked back. Gentoo was semi-entertaining to watch install, but I've got better things to do with my time.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Saturday July 28 2018, @08:56PM (4 children)
I don't see what systemd has to do with any of this. Nobody is forced to use it. Nobody is blocked from using something else, or blocked from producing their own fork.
That's totally different from proprietary software. You seem to have the common mistaken belief that "free software" means "I have a right to demand that the community follow my own preferences". FreeBSD doesn't use systemd. Void Linux doesn't use it. Gentoo can be run with or without it. Choose one of those, or make your own.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 28 2018, @10:44PM (2 children)
Kinda. I really don't care if redshat screws the pooch with systemd, but the BS where things that should not care about init are dependent on systemd pisses me off. I've been able to continue to run Debian through Stretch (v9) with systemd purged, but recently I installed Debian testing (will be Buster), on a new laptop my work gave me. When I went to purge systemd, just about half the f-ing system was going to be uninstalled because systemd was a dependency.
Someone a few years ago described systemd as a cancer. I have to agree.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 29 2018, @05:52AM
I have a different theory: SystemD is the NSA's Linux backdoor. I know, this sounds tin-foil-hattery nutty, but it's one of the few explanations that make sense (another one being that Lennart Poettering is one of the most elaborate and succesful trolls in history).
Call me a conspiracy theorist. But from how things stand, I'll default to assuming that SystemD is an NSA trojan - until proven otherwise.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Sunday July 29 2018, @03:10PM
I've never had a problem with systemd, I've been using it without headaches for years on personal Linux desktops and hundreds of work servers. But I was upset by the changes in GNOME 3, and Ubuntu's Unity desktop so I understand your general class of frustration. (I find Unity and GNOME 3 acceptable now... after years of adjustments that came because of user screams of anguish and jumps to other desktops.)
I think the long term solution to these kinds of problems is to try to get as many people as possible using open source. Maybe 0.0001% to 0.1% of users will become contributors, and if we have 3 billion users then that's enough contributors that any project anyone could possibly care about will have a ton of supporters. Then Linux can have fifty well-engineered, actively maintained init systems and desktop environments and we can all choose awesome things without being forced to go with a handful of defaults or write our own.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday July 29 2018, @09:40PM
let me explain.
Linux is FOSS, if I don't want to run systemd, I can. It will be difficult? sure.
Windows pushes the update, you either consume it or eventually be locked out by compromises or incompatibility.
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