Trump says public availability of 3D-printed guns 'doesn't seem to make much sense'
President Donald Trump said Tuesday that he is "looking into" the availability of plans for the 3D printing of guns, writing on Twitter that he had already been in touch with the NRA on the issue.
"I am looking into 3-D Plastic Guns being sold to the public. Already spoke to NRA, doesn't seem to make much sense!" the president wrote on Twitter Tuesday morning.
After a years-long legal battle, Defense Distributed, a Texas-based group, has announced plans to release instructions on Wednesday for guns that can be created by a 3-D printer, including a handgun and parts for a semi-automatic assault rifle. Although plans were not supposed to be available until Wednesday, instructions have already begun to appear online for download, CNN reported Tuesday.
From Defense Distributed's still barebones website:
August 1, 2018
Defense Distributed relaunches DEFCAD after reaching a settlement agreement with the US Department of State, concluding a multi-year federal lawsuit. The age of the downloadable gun formally begins.
The DEFCAD website is now up (as of July 31) but files supposedly can't be downloaded until August 1.
Even our resident Trump supporters/enthusiasts can bash him for even thinking about encroaching on our digital gun liberties.
Also at The Hill.
"U.S. District Judge Robert Lasnik issued a temporary restraining order Tuesday afternoon that bars Cody Wilson from sharing 3-D gun print files online August 1.
The order provides time for Democrats to continue pressing President Trump to intervene and prohibit future publication of files all together."
Previously: Landmark Legal Shift for 3D-Printed Guns
Related: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home
Japanese Gun Printer Goes to Jail
Suspected 3D-Printed Gun Parts and Plastic Knuckles Seized in Australia
FedEx Refuses to Ship Defense Distributed's Ghost Gunner CNC Mill
Man Who Used CNC Mill to Manufacture AR-15 "Lowers" Sentenced to 41 Months
Ghost Gunner Software Update Allows the Milling of an M1911 Handgun
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Bot on Wednesday August 01 2018, @09:26AM (35 children)
I suggest you promote free and open hardware guns.
What will happen if they get to destroy NRA's market is that NRA will not bother paying politicians anymore.
In turn politicians will do what they naturally want to do, which is removing power from peons.
So weapons will be banned AS YOU WANTED FROM THE BEGINNING.
If this strategy seems to you overly cynical, I remind you that your immigration strategy to destroy and rebuild society is exactly the same.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @09:39AM (17 children)
Well, that or the plastic gun buyers get slugged with ever greater carbon taxes until buying multiple use weapons become economically viable again, but that's a win for environmental policy as well.
Hmm .. maybe plastic guns was why Mel Gibson had so much trouble finding petroleum products in the apocalypse ...
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @12:01PM (16 children)
Defense Distributed is also working on printed metal guns. It's just not as feasible as plastic printing for most people.
While a plastic gun might be able to make it through a metal detector (which may be an attractive quality to some), a printed metal gun wouldn't have a serial number, and you wouldn't have to be subject to a background check or put on some watchlist as you might from buying a normal gun.
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(Score: 5, Informative) by VLM on Wednesday August 01 2018, @01:19PM (3 children)
For a variety of complicated legal reasons "a gun" in the USA is legally the lower receiver, "the hand grip". So if you want to propagandize that you've made a completely plastic gun, thats pretty easy when the barrel is two pounds of steel pipe, the breech block bolt apparatus is a pound block of steel, etc. Since the invention of interchangeable mass produced parts a couple centuries ago its been a battle to define "Whats a gun".
A pretty good SN automobile analogy is if I told you a piece of the dashboard with an engraved VIN number is legally a car. Which it is. Of course people talking about cars usually mean the whole 4000 pound thing, or have images in their head of engines and transmissions. In the propaganda sense of this story, YES I can 3-d print a Ferrari. What I'll do is 3-d print a plastic copy of the frame with an engraved copy of a real Ferrari's VIN number, then I'll legally register it and bolt the other 3999 pounds of aftermarket "not-a-car" unlicensed unregistered parts on to it, and ta da, I've 3-d printed a Ferrari.
Likewise the other side is also lying in that a "semi-automatic assault rifle" is a misnomer, there are no non-automatic assault rifles. OR they're playing the propaganda game of redefining something we don't like as an assault rifle.
Another "big lie" in the propaganda is there's been STL files of guns and gun parts floating around since consumer 3-d printing was "invented" a decade ago. This is kinda like how the internet existed for decades with millions of users before legacy media did its gatekeeper thing and decided it officially existed. Likewise I don't believe the stories about "plans already released" because there's been plans released in the 00s for 3-d printing. Most I've seen are pretty shitty handguns; make a crappy 1970s era homemade zip gun and epoxy it to a 3-d printed ergonomic handgrip. Its "printing a gun" in the same sense that hiring a general contractor means "I built a house" or my daughter bedazzling some glitter beads on some jeans from the store means she "made her own jeans".
The final weirdness in the propaganda is where I live and given my (lack of a) criminal record, there's nothing wrong with my 3-d printing a gun; I can do it perfectly legally in a fully documented and government supported manner. I even have a safe to store it in once its made. I've never done it before, but its pretty easy to fully legally manufacture a firearm and people do it all the time, when doing custom gunsmithing and metalworking stuff. The insinuation in the propaganda is, of course, that its illegal to make a gun and only a criminal would ever want to, but in the real world away from Tumblr its merely gunsmithing metalworking business as usual, its just not a huge deal. I have made a boat, and those regulations also intersect state and federal law, and very hand wavy I'd say its much harder to legally make a motorboat than it is to legally make a gun if you want to follow all the laws and have all the paperwork you're supposed to have. That said, both tasks are not exactly difficult for above 90 IQ people, a couple forms here and there, some checks for fees/licenses here and there, the paperwork cost is a rounding error compared to the associated costs of the project.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:59PM (2 children)
The car analogy is just silly. Everyone knows you wouldn't download a car. That's just common sense, right ?
(Score: 3, Funny) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:10PM
You wouldn't steal a handbag.
You wouldn't steal a car.
You wouldn't steal a baby.
You wouldn't shoot a policeman. And then steal his helmet.
You wouldn't go to the toilet in his helmet. And then send it to the policeman's grieving widow.
And then steal it again!
Downloading films is stealing. If you do it, you will face the consequences.
(Score: 2) by legont on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:31AM
Well, not sure about cars, but one can definitely download (for a relatively small fee) plans for an airplane and build it. In fact I just came from Oshkosh where around 20,000 such "nuts" were present. That's builders mind you. Visitors counted at 600,000
Making a lower receiver is a rather simple task compared to building of an airplane. Seeing 6 years old building basic airplane parts makes me think they could easily make guns as well.
BTW, all the equipment necessary to make a real metal gun is available at maker space facilities including mobile maker buses https://www.makerbus.ca/ [makerbus.ca]
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:02PM (11 children)
idk why people keep acting like all guns had serials before this new danger was born. US citizens have always had the right to build their own firearms. this is just a new way to do that. tough shit, fuckheads.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:11PM (10 children)
I already covered that in another comment. Obviously, not all people have the skills or tools needed to build a gun. Printing one could be easier. They can pool money together with others to buy a 3D printer, and print other stuff with their 3D printer.
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(Score: 2) by legont on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:41AM (3 children)
It would be more convenient and practical to rent a maker facility and cnc mill the lower receiver. They could off course buy a mill. They are in 5-10 grand range new and can be found under 1000 on garage sales.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:53AM (2 children)
You bring up an interesting point. I assume by "maker facility" you mean "hackerspace" or such? They might specifically forbid making weapons in the contract you sign with them, or go completely bonkers if you do make one. I expect someone will try to do just that and an incident will make the news.
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(Score: 2) by legont on Thursday August 02 2018, @03:03AM (1 child)
Well, I imagine a conservative community just buying a maker bus to educate their children. A few AK47 per night can be made easily from kits available over the Internet. The kits are usually a fully capable rifles with lower receivers cut in half. While I never tried it myself, I am pretty sure i can do it (and I have friends with cnc mills). It appears to be legal as well or though I did not research it either.
Regardless, I think it did not happen yet simply because it is currently easy to buy a gun. Once liberals achieve their goal of making it hard, the gun maker movement will explode and will never end after that because people will quickly discover the wonders of cheap custom designed instruments.
This is the main reason I personally against stricter gun regulations. The technology is out there already and can't be stopped. Regulations will just force people to use it sooner.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 02 2018, @07:54AM
Conservative communities don't need a bus. They have garages with tools and equipment. Their children already learn how to use those. Makerbuses are for city people who never learned to build a house, repair a vehicle, weld, or use power tools.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:56AM (5 children)
If you have an iq over 80 and $10 you can build a gun from plumbing pipe.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday August 02 2018, @04:24AM (4 children)
Do you have to have an IQ over 120 to make it safe and reliable?
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 02 2018, @08:02AM (2 children)
There is no safe in guns. Period. Any gun can jam and blow up in your hand. Buy the best-rated steel tubing you can and you'll get /safer/, but it will never be /safe/. Zip guns are generally recomended as one-time use only, reliability isn't a concern. Hit the target, toss your pipe, burn your clothes, good to go.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday August 02 2018, @12:46PM (1 child)
And any neural network can become Skynet and take over the world, right?
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday August 02 2018, @06:34PM
Not if it is bootstrapped by systemd.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday August 02 2018, @12:45PM
No, just proof test it with a hot load, and anything less powerful will be safe. And a slam fire pipe gun is likely to be more reliable than a modern semi due to its dead simple design.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 3, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 01 2018, @10:30AM
I don't think you quite know what the NRA actually is. You might want to change that situation.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:20AM (1 child)
Even better, make them readily available to one minority group [youtube.com] or another.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:21AM
Whoops, more 'marginalized' than 'minority' (at least per the thrust of that clip). Maybe it doesn't really matter.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @12:05PM (13 children)
I had similar thoughts to you, but it's a bit more complicated than that:
https://archive.fo/cX1og [archive.fo]
So If NRA comes out strongly against printed weapons, they are really sticking it to a number of their members who I'm sure are not interested in any such restrictions. The only way I could see them justifying it is by making an appeal about the "safety" of the printed weapons (possibility of them causing injury to the user) despite the fact that this is really a First Amendment issue, safety be damned.
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(Score: 0, Offtopic) by khallow on Wednesday August 01 2018, @12:10PM (10 children)
And of course, they don't have any reason to come out strongly against printed weapons.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by takyon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @12:20PM (8 children)
Remains to be seen. Very vague tweetage.
And you can't think of a reason why a (partially) gun industry backed organization would want to ban printed weapons? I've already thought of 2.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday August 01 2018, @12:29PM (4 children)
Let's see those reasons.
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @12:42PM (3 children)
Printed weapons are a challenge to gun industry profits (doesn't have to be true now or at any point in the future, they just have to cynically believe it might).
Printed weapons are unsafe for their users (profitable meatbags who buy guns *and* donate to the org). The NRA says "firearm education and safety is paramount" [nra.org]. If they don't believe printed weapons can be used safely, they may be willing to look the other way while politicians put in place a "common sense (printed) gun control". Even though doing so would be short-sighted at best (and Cody Wilson made some pretty reliable printed guns IIRC).
This has little to do with the gun industry specifically, but the NRA might support a printed gun ban simply because the tools undermine existing regulations and it's a battle they have little interest in fighting. It's not like the NRA doesn't support certain aspects of "gun control". [nraila.org]
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(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:07PM (1 child)
We all know that "madman mows crowd with gun" helps to raise sales, but what happens to the bottom line when the headline is "printed gun blows up in user's face" ?
Is the NRA going to seed bad plans on the web to cause mistrust? If yes, how good are they at scaring their potential customers away from printing without scaring them away from guns?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:19PM
The NRA doesn't sell guns, bob. Gunmakers of course contribute to it but, well, let's let CNN explain it to you [archive.is].
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:23AM
That's a circular argument not a reason why they would "cynically believe it might".
That's a typical problem with homemade weapons.
"If".
The NRA has a more than 80 year history of such expediency (for example, supporting bans on silencers and sawed off shotguns) in order to get what they want (relatively low federal-level restrictions on firearm manufacture, ownership, and usage). But what's so dramatic about printed firearms that they'll get political capital for supporting a ban? It's already illegal to use plastic/X-ray transparent firearms, for example.
And we still have the matter that it's not a reason to want to ban printed firearms, but rather any marginally useful technology that happens to be high FUD. 3-D printing neither has the necessary level of FUD nor in the long run, the marginal utility.
The problem with banning printed weapons is first, that sooner or later such printing technology will see widespread application in firearm manufacture (not necessarily of critical high stress components like barrels or firing pins). Poorly designed regulations can inhibit firearm manufacturers and users from adopting state of the art technologies for normal firearm production. Second, as already noted, there's the First Amendment matter. One of the more loathsome federal-level regulations of the past twenty years, ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) was used to suppress mere distribution of a firearm design. This is a greater threat than any ban on firearm types because it sets a precedent on banning distribution of ideas about firearms, a far more intrusive restriction on firearm-related freedoms than the usual gun control regulation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @06:15PM (2 children)
I suppose you could count the advertising in their magazine, but that really isn't going to support a lobbying effort. Magazines are not all that profitable. (cost of paper, printing, mailing...)
Fundamentally, the NRA is member-supported. Millions of people have joined.
It's not evil corporations. It's not Russian collusion. There really are millions of ordinary Americans who love their 2nd amendment so much that they are willing to part with some money for it.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @08:59PM (1 child)
> It's not evil corporations.
dateline January 2013 [businessinsider.com]:
dateline December 2012 [theatlantic.com]:
> It's not Russian collusion.
That's something the Department of Justice is investigating [mcclatchydc.com]. Do you have some information that they need to know? Will you share that with us?
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday August 02 2018, @03:00AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 5, Informative) by DannyB on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:46PM
NRA supporters are as deluded as Trump supporters.
The NRA is not an organization about helping citizens to have firearms. It is a gun manufacturers trade association in disguise.
Therefore the NRA will be AGAINST being able to 3D print your own firearm -- because it hurts firearm SALES. And that is the ONLY thing that NRA actually cares about. It's not about lives. It's not about rights. It's not about freedom. Or protecting onself or property. It's not about the 2nd amendment. It's only about sales.
Fact: We get heavier as we age due to more information in our heads. When no more will fit it accumulates as fat.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by ilPapa on Wednesday August 01 2018, @06:02PM (1 child)
NRA stands for "Not Really American".
Why should we care what an organization that has been co-opted by Russian intelligence thinks? I'm more concerned that the President of the United States believes he needs to talk to a lobbying group before he can make policy.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday August 02 2018, @03:34PM
Boris and Natasha say Russia collusion fake news - work of Moose and Squirrel.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.