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posted by chromas on Wednesday August 01 2018, @01:31PM   Printer-friendly
from the delete-this dept.

Activist publishes 11,000 Wikileaks Twitter direct messages

An activist has published 11,000 direct messages on Twitter between the Wikileaks account and a group of its supporters. The direct messages were published by Emma Best on her own website. Her Twitter account states that she is a journalist on the East Coast. Best has been critical of Wikileaks and has advocated for government transparency. Some of the direct messages were previously published, but this is the first time all of the direct messages have been posted.

The messages show that Wikileaks wanted the GOP to defeat Hillary Clinton during the 2016 presidential elections. "We believe it would be much better for the GOP to win," the Wikileaks account states to a supporter named "Emmy B" in one of the messages from 2015.

Why would they do that?

Clinton: I don't recall joking about droning Julian Assange

Oh.


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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @01:50PM (33 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @01:50PM (#715656)

    What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Let's hope all of Asange's PMs, emails, et al, are released.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @01:55PM (25 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @01:55PM (#715660)

      Wikileaks/Assange are nothing like government.

      A government takes resources from people by decree, often against their will, at the point of a gun; and, a government wages violent war, kill (and arguably murdering) people.

      This ain't no goose and gander comparison.

      • (Score: 3, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:07PM (17 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:07PM (#715666)

        This ain't no goose and gander comparison.

        Speaking as one who once supported Wikileaks, Wikileaks chose to become an agent of Putin's government in spreading anti-Democrat (dis)information during an election. When they chose to become an agent for a government, they lost any moral high-ground they might have had. Last I checked, Putin's government has been taking resources by decree (Russia is considered a kleptocracy by many economists because of how they seize assets and then divvy them up among Putin's insiders), and is certainly guilty of murdering plenty of people, not just via their anti-gay "unofficial" pogroms, but by shooting down airliners and murdering dissidents at home and abroad in numerous ways, including using banned nerve agents on civilians in the UK.

        This is absolutely a goose and gander comparison, and Assange/Wikileaks deserves to hang by their own petard.

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:22PM (8 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:22PM (#715674)

          Typical Democrat stance. First it was "Ohhhh, Wikileaks GOOOOD!" Then it was, "But, muh HILLARY!"

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:23PM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:23PM (#715725)

            It isn't about Hillary. Wokileaks was about transparency and publishing things people should know
              They were supposedly somewhat objective. When they began gearing their releases for political effect they lost the neutrality and became yet another shadowy organization.

            • (Score: 1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:07PM (6 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:07PM (#715755)

              Wow.

              What is the point of restricting themselves to leaking documents that are not of a political nature? What is the point of free speech if not to challenge political power?

              The ctrl-left is so far gone, it's hopeless. The DNC massively fucked up in choosing Hillary Clinton. How that happened is something we should know.

              We need to know, because we need to decide whether the Democratic Socialists of America can save the Democratic Party from neoliberalism. If the DSA cannot, then we must abandon the Democratic Party entirely and throw our support behind perhaps the Green Party or a national revival of the Progressive Party.

              Let me put it another way. The DSA is the only way to save capitalism at this point without becoming an alt-right fascist shithole country.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:40PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:40PM (#715814)

                How that happened is something we should know.

                We already know: "It was her turn."

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @08:32PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @08:32PM (#715898)

                  We already know: "It was her turn."

                  And she would've gotten away with rigging the Democratic party primaries if it wasn't for those meddling Bernie Bros. And the Russian hackers too!

                  (How dare they expose her corruption.)

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @10:50PM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @10:50PM (#715949)

                    Considering your ilk fell for a con man, thanks for pointing out the speck in someone else's eye while ignoring the beam in yours.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 02 2018, @03:19AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 02 2018, @03:19AM (#716055)

                      Considering your ilk fell for a con man

                      If you have any evidence to support the assertion that Bernie Sanders is a con man then please provide links to support it.

                      Or did you just ignorantly assume that all critics of Clinton must be Trump supporters?

              • (Score: 5, Disagree) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday August 01 2018, @09:50PM (1 child)

                by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @09:50PM (#715925)

                Please stop with the fiction that there is a left in US politics.

                There is a right and there is a far-right. Any illusion that any group with "Socialist" in their name will be allowed to have any national role in politics is stupid.

                The people who run America will never let any of that happen.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 03 2018, @12:48PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 03 2018, @12:48PM (#716659)

                  Left and right are relative.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:30PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:30PM (#715680)

          I'm not saying the Republicans are, mind you. But, maybe you should do some introspection.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:51PM (2 children)

          Nope, telling the truth is never a bad thing. There may need to be more of it being done and it may need to be done less selectively but that doesn't mean we're better off not knowing.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:00PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:00PM (#715790)

            While I agree with your general sentiment there are always outliers where it is better to hide the truth at least for a little while.

            Beware the absolute statements!

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:09PM

          by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:09PM (#715711)

          Wikileaks chose to become an agent of Putin's government

          Assumes facts not in evidence, namely that Assange knew that the people he was talking to were Russian intel. Just because the talking heads on MSDNC say so repeatedly doesn't make it true, any more than the talking heads on Fox Snooze saying something repeatedly makes it true. I searched the messages for mentions of "Russia" and "GRU", and found nothing indicating that he did in fact know.

          Last I checked, Putin's government has been taking resources by decree (Russia is considered a kleptocracy by many economists because of how they seize assets and then divvy them up among Putin's insiders), and is certainly guilty of murdering plenty of people, not just via their anti-gay "unofficial" pogroms, but by shooting down airliners and murdering dissidents at home and abroad in numerous ways, including using banned nerve agents on civilians in the UK.

          Which, again, if Assange didn't know he was dealing with Russian intel, is completely irrelevant.

          Assange/Wikileaks deserves to hang by their own petard.

          Ahh, this is the part where I'm confused: How is this material "hanging" them? Unless you didn't actually read it, of course, or decided that "Hurts the Democrats" = "illegal".

          --
          Alcohol makes the world go round ... and round and round.
        • (Score: 5, Informative) by Whoever on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:14PM (2 children)

          by Whoever (4524) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:14PM (#715721) Journal

          Assange/Wikileaks deserves to hang by their own petard.

          It's "hoist", not "hang".

          A petard is a type of bomb. It was used to blast open gates. The petardier would make the petard and attach it to the enemy's gates. If it exploded too soon, the petardier would be hoisted by his own petard.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:46PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:46PM (#715743)

            LOL Back to the future Biff Tannen.

            • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:32PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:32PM (#715773)

              Make like a tree and get out of here.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:20PM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:20PM (#715763)

        Assange doesn't take resources at the point of gun

        Stealing, with of without a gun, is still stealing.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:33PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:33PM (#715774)

          Did Assange steal documents? Nope. Next!

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @06:05PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @06:05PM (#715830)

            Some, yes. Some were stolen and given to him. And yet, he's some type of hero? I say put the hiding coward on the street and let the world have at him.

            • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @06:15PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @06:15PM (#715836)

              He did nothing the New York Times and Washington Post didn't engage in a few decades ago. We used to call it "journalism", it's actually mentioned in the Bill of Rights.

              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @10:59PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @10:59PM (#715954)

                We used to call it "journalism", it's actually mentioned in the Bill of Rights.

                Well, excuse me if I deny Assange any and all rights granted in the US Constitution due to the fact that the weaselly coward is not a US citizen, or even in the US. He's hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy in London. And I believe a foreigner releasing those documents violates US law.

                • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:26PM

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:26PM (#716233) Homepage Journal

                  No, you should excuse me, because as you say, Assange is not a US citizen, nor does he reside in the US. No jurisdiction. If some American tells him something, and he repeats is, he has broken no US law, and certainly no enforceable US law.

                  Let's say you post some meaningless nonsense insult about some petty despot in some God-forsaken country halfway around the world. Does that little prick have some right to abduct your ass, haul you into court in his own country, charge you, try you, convict you, then execute you?

                  No jurisdiction means, "Nyaah, nyaah, nyaah, you can't touch me if you respect your own laws!"

                  But, the US respects no laws - not even it's own laws.

                  --
                  “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday August 02 2018, @12:13AM

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday August 02 2018, @12:13AM (#715984) Journal

        Wikileaks/Assange are nothing like government.

        The DNC is not part of the government either...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:03PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:03PM (#715791)

      "Sauce", not "good". The expression is "what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander".

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:03PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:03PM (#715855)

      I don't really care if they are. But are you saying that they should not have released the DNC emails, and that The People shouldn't have been informed that the DNC was heavily biased against Bernie, amongst other things? The only tragedy is that the same didn't happen to the RNC, and various other parts of government.

      • (Score: 2) by J053 on Wednesday August 01 2018, @09:08PM (1 child)

        by J053 (3532) <{dakine} {at} {shangri-la.cx}> on Wednesday August 01 2018, @09:08PM (#715908) Homepage
        Well, considering that the DNC emails weren't released until after the primaries were over (and, therefor, the nomination already decided), then it doesn't really matter that "The People:" were informed - by that time, it didn't make any difference in the Democratic Party nominating process. All the release did was to further alienate (some) people from the Democratic nominee and thus (directly or indirectly) help Trump.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:15PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:15PM (#715960)

          So? It's good that it was released at all, regardless of who it may or may not have "helped". I believe people are ultimately responsible for their own votes anyway, regardless of any attempted indirect interference to sway them.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by ElizabethGreene on Wednesday August 01 2018, @01:54PM (20 children)

    by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @01:54PM (#715658)

    They tried to discredit Wikileaks by seeding bogus information, and WL caught and exposed it.
    They tried to discredit Wikileaks by making them Russian agents, and WL pointed to a decade of publishing things Russia hated.
    They tried to disappear Julian Assange, and he became a martyr. (A neat trick for someone who is still alive.)
    Now they'll expose the guts of the organization and hope something sticks. Good luck with that; this organization is teflon.

    This smacks of desperation.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:23PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:23PM (#715675) Homepage Journal

      Teflon Julian? And, Teflon Bill? Brothers? That explains a lot. No one can hate each other more than brothers, or brother-in-law and sister-in-law.

      --
      “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:43PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:43PM (#715690)

      > Now they'll expose the guts of the organization and hope something sticks. Good luck with that; this organization is teflon.

      Dig a little. The discussions posted there by Mchael (Emma) Best are from a chat room about Wikileaks, not from Wikileaks itself. They're not even "DM", which would be private. So the headlines there and on most of the other articles are just plain lies.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by idiot_king on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:50PM (14 children)

      by idiot_king (6587) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:50PM (#715694)

      WL is also majorly responsible for Trump winning. I'm all for toppling corrupt systems but WL needs to be held to its own standard for it to be considered trustworthy.

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:53PM (8 children)

        Nah, we just need more people doing the job with different agendas and preferably some with no agenda but the truth.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by ikanreed on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:05PM (7 children)

          by ikanreed (3164) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:05PM (#715754) Journal

          What's great is that you can say that as if it's true and at the same time a solid quarter of country will just go "alex jones and brietbart are enough for me" and thus stupid conspiracy theories will happily dominate the collective discussion.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:26PM (2 children)

            Sounds good to me. Let's start up a government agency to make sure all of the truth is told by every outlet and that it's actually true. Now what would we call this ministry...

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @06:49PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @06:49PM (#715848)

            You don't need to go all the way to Alex Jones to find conspiracy theories, just turn on CNN.

            • (Score: 2) by ikanreed on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:14PM

              by ikanreed (3164) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:14PM (#715860) Journal

              I mean... you're not gonna see me defend CNN, which exists to maximize advertising dollars within box that is pro-forma journalistic best practices, and no intention to actually follow the spirit of such practices with the aim of informing people. With way too much editorial analysis and not nearly enough critical analysis.

              But I suspect in this case, sans context, that you're conflating describing details of specific criminal conspiracies based on investigations and evidence produced, with the you know, common definition of conspiracy theories I was using: ascribing to unprovable secret malicious intent actions and events with very plausible and reasonable explanations in the public record. Even the pro-forma garbage practices of CNN limit that to only happening in pointless "both sides" panels.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:43PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:43PM (#715875)

            stupid conspiracy theories? you're a brainwashed slave sucking up to the master.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:16PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:16PM (#715759)

        It boggles the mind that somebody who seems to support socialism would be unable to see that the reason Trump won was because the DNC ran a profoundly out-of-touch capitalist instead of a progressive.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by schad on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:43PM

        by schad (2398) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:43PM (#715786)

        WL is also majorly responsible for Trump winning.

        Really? Without speaking to the merits of the candidates themselves, I'd put the blame in all these places first:

        1. The people who voted for Trump (naturally). They're all adults; no one is responsible for their votes but them.
        2. The people who were so blinded by the prospect of a woman president that they voted for Clinton despite her many well-documented and extremely obvious deficiencies.
        3. The DNC, for trying to ensure that Clinton would win the primaries despite the fact that, again, she had serious problems as a candidate.
        4. The people who were so disgusted by Trump and Clinton that, rather than voting, they stayed home.
        5. Clinton, for assuming that Democrats would just vote for her no matter what.

        It's at around this point in the blame-list that I'd start talking about Comey, Wikileaks, the Russians, etc. I just don't think they had much of an effect on the election. We all knew what we'd be getting with Trump or Clinton. I don't think any Trump supporters have been terribly surprised by anything that's happened since his election. It's why Stormy Daniels, pussy-grabbing, Miss America peeping, etc. never got much traction. Everyone already knew that Trump was a slimeball. They voted for him anyway. By the same token, everyone already knew what Clinton was: a cutthroat politician who would say or do whatever it took in order to win, and had little or no care for anything beyond her own personal advancement. What did we learn from the DNC emails? That Clinton had done and said whatever it took in order to win. What did we learn from Comey? That Clinton had little or no care for anything beyond her own personal advancement. Nothing shocking there.

        Oh, I'm sure that there were people out there who were naive enough to think that Trump was basically a nice guy who was just misunderstood, and Clinton was secretly a big ol' softie. Well... writing that, I'm not actually sure that there were people that naive. Maybe if you knew literally nothing about either of them?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:18PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:18PM (#715863)

        WL is also majorly responsible for Trump winning.

        How can you possibly know this?

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by takyon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:19PM (1 child)

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:19PM (#715866) Journal

        Hillary was majorly responsible for Trump winning, although FIB Director Comey enjoyed a strong supporting role.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 2, Informative) by exaeta on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:30PM (2 children)

      by exaeta (6957) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:30PM (#715772) Homepage Journal

      The organization is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene [wikipedia.org]PTFE, not Teflon. Teflon is a brand name and trademark of Chemours. Only PTFE made by Chemours can be called Teflon.

      --
      The Government is a Bird
      • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Thursday August 02 2018, @05:08AM (1 child)

        by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Thursday August 02 2018, @05:08AM (#716079) Homepage Journal

        Hopefully you're speaking tongue-in-cheek. I'll tell you, I love our FABULOUS chemical industry as much as anyone. But the only time I'm giving my tongue a workout like that is in the mouth of a GORGEOUS woman. A 10, somebody on a par with Ivanka. Can we call that teflon? Why not!

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:35PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:35PM (#716240) Homepage Journal

          is in the mouth of a GORGEOUS woman

          This is why I can steal your woman any time I like. It's not her mouth that I stick my tongue into!

          --
          “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:13PM

    by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:13PM (#715673)

    I've encountered more than a few people, mostly die-hard Democrats, who want Assange either in jail or dead for actions that aren't crimes, and aren't in US jurisdiction even if they are crimes.

    Publishing formerly classified documents? Not a crime.
    Publishing documents obtained from a mysterious third party? Not a crime.
    Publishing documents that embarrass a presidential candidate? Definitely not a crime.
    Wanting a presidential candidate to win or lose? If this is a crime, then we're not remotely a democracy.

    But that doesn't matter to these partisan hacks who think that party loyalty is more important than the rule of law. That thinking is downright dangerous, and was a hallmark of every totalitarian state ever.

    As for Hillary Clinton, I find it interesting that she's gone from complaining about a vast right-wing conspiracy that was trying to remove Bill and her in the 1990's to complaining about an even more vast global conspiracy that was trying to prevent her from becoming president. In both cases, it's poor excuse-making for stupid behavior: Bill could have stopped the impeachment process by not sexually harassing his employees. And Hillary could have stopped the hacking from being any sort of problem if their campaign discussions hadn't contained a lot of dirt - imagine thousands of emails of policy wonkery and serious analysis of voter desires became public.

    --
    Alcohol makes the world go round ... and round and round.
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:25PM (22 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:25PM (#715676)
    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:38PM (21 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:38PM (#715686)

      Wikileaks staffers come out of this expose remarkably well.

      Muh "transphobia":

      [2015-05-03 00:28:47] <WISE Up Wales> Gender identity politics is a nightmare. & a gift to the state, unfortunately.

      [2015-05-03 00:29:28] <WikiLeaks> Yes. Gender essentialism is regressive.

      [2015-05-03 00:30:58] <WikiLeaks> The whole fight was to liberate people from essentialism and understand that gender is a matrix of many biological signaling paths and..

      [2015-05-03 00:32:14] <WikiLeaks> …behaviors, each of which can have different strength accross individuals and societies.

      [2015-05-03 00:35:04] <WISE Up Wales> There’s no liberation where the fight’s ended up: now we’ve ‘the cotton ceiling’ where blokes who say they feel like they’re women…

      [2015-05-03 00:35:21] <WISE Up Wales> …possibly only part time, complain that lesbians won’t have sex with them!

      Muh "Trumpism":

      [2016-07-25 22:14:16] <Emmy B> In relation to attempts by Clinton and allies to link WL with Russia on the latest release, the implication is (apart from obviously attempting to discredit/weaken the release’s impact), that it feeds into the Grand Jury ‘Espionage’ investigation. however flimsy the ‘Russian conspiracy’ is, the Grand Jury investigation role is to criminalise through a legal conspiracy.

      [2016-07-27 15:24:25] <LibertarianLibrarian> It makes much more sense that this is an insider leak. Bet plenty of people are pissed at the DNC’s behavior.

      [2016-08-12 04:17:36] <Emmy B> Speculation: preempting WL future revelations to minimise Clinton damage by identifying others as responsible of corruption not her?

      [2016-11-03 14:29:47] <LibertarianLibrarian> What is amazing is that even people who are otherwise smart are so afraid of Trump, they think all the facts of Clinton’s corruption is bought by Trump. I detest Trump, but don’t believe for 1 second that Clinton isn’t utterly criminal.

      [2016-11-03 15:26:00] <Emmy B> I saw it. There will be 1001 opinions on the matter if US/UK establishment was not pushing the it’s the Russians/Martians line.

      [2016-11-03 15:32:57] <LibertarianLibrarian> LOL Emmy! But very true. Ironic how things come around again. The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming. *sigh*

      [2016-11-09 04:14:49] <LibertarianLibrarian> Glad I ended up sleeping through last night. Insanity. I don’t like Trump but I do understand the vote. I suspect it parallels the Brexit – people showing how angry they are with the status quo. Going to be crazy for a while, but don’t expect Trump to be anything but manages by the establishment.

      [2017-03-11 10:14:05] <LibertarianLibrarian> Life goes on. There’s a lot of utter disgust with Trump, Washington, etc. I suspect most people just expect to get screwed over by govt. I think most people are against that stupid Mexican wall thing. Women’s groups are generally up in arms re Trump, I’m still wondering why they weren’t the same re Bill Clinton. The fight over the pipeline still ongoing. No one has a clue what’s going to happen re Obamacare. And generally we all knew we were spied on anyway and no one ever liked the CIA, so I suspect the average person’s response is ‘so what’s new?’ Sad, but I had kinds thought the same thing.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Freeman on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:00PM (8 children)

        by Freeman (732) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:00PM (#715750) Journal

        "Women’s groups are generally up in arms re Trump, I’m still wondering why they weren’t the same re Bill Clinton."

        #1 Trump is Charasmatic, but is a loud mouth and seem not to have much in the way of "manners."

        #2 Clinton is Charasmatic, but also has "manners."

        --
        Forced Microsoft Account for Windows Login → Switch to Linux.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:09PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:09PM (#715797)

          Manners go a long way and generally indicate a person has had some ethical learning. Doesn't mean they are a good person, many liars and cheats seem like wonderful people at first.

          Clinton did a lot of shitty stuff, typical neo-liberal agenda selling out the people, but I would 100% rather have him around than Trump. Trump has pretty much zero redeeming value and only accidentally do his policies have side effects which help out the average person.

          You are comparing apples and oranges. Also, at least Bill's escapades were consensual. Trump is a gross example of why we have sexual harassment laws and would make a good poster boy for the #metoo movement.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:13PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:13PM (#715798)

            Lol, someone isn't old enough to remember Juanita Broaderick.

          • (Score: 1) by exaeta on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:17PM

            by exaeta (6957) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:17PM (#715862) Homepage Journal

            I don't think his policies are "accidentally" good. I think he actually has some brains, but is a "people pleaser". Although you might dislike Trump, I think he's trying to appeal to his fan base and sell his products (after his presidential run is over), rather than be a well-liked guy.

            He's realized that he can get a *cough* certain segment *cough* of the population to like him by acting this way. It's very intentional and not an issue of lack of self control. Compare and contrast pre-politics Trump to post-politics Trump. He actually seems fairly smart. Which is why, despite how he sounds, many of his policies actually work, granted, he does implement some stupid ones (mostly to please that *cough* certain segment *cough* of the population).

            In a nutshell, Trump is a selfish businessman that actually has done some sensible things when *cough* certain people *cough* aren't looking, but when they are he will usually do whatever they want him to. (I am also assuming, he may be more sensible when he isn't up for reelection in his second term)

            --
            The Government is a Bird
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:38PM (4 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:38PM (#716241) Homepage Journal

          So, manners is defined as having a socio- and psycho-pathic wife who will make the bodies disappear?

          --
          “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
          • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:51PM (3 children)

            by Freeman (732) on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:51PM (#716250) Journal

            Dictionary.com definitions I'm referring to:
            "2b) ways of behaving with reference to polite standards; social comportment: That child has good manners.
            3a) person's outward bearing; way of speaking to and treating others: She has a charming manner."

            In other words it's a Southern Thing. https://www.tripsavvy.com/how-to-be-a-southerner-2212278 [tripsavvy.com]

            --
            Forced Microsoft Account for Windows Login → Switch to Linux.
            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 02 2018, @03:08PM (2 children)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 02 2018, @03:08PM (#716261) Homepage Journal

              Yeah, it may be a southern thing - but these kids have begun to annoy me. Four, five years ago, some of them started calling me "Mister Runaway". I griped. Griping about it just caused more of them to call me that. Now? About the only people who don't "mister" me are the ones I've been working with for more than ten years. That is, all the rest of the old bastards.

              --
              “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
              • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday August 02 2018, @03:19PM (1 child)

                by Freeman (732) on Thursday August 02 2018, @03:19PM (#716280) Journal

                The first one may have been genuine, but assuming the others know you don't like being called that. They're not being polite and / or they're not comfortable calling you anything else. The older you are, the more likely someone's going to call you Mister. Have you already been asked about the Senior Discount? At a certain point some people just look a bit older, like my dad. Who just took it in stride and usually made some small joke around it. Sure, he's old enough now to get the Senior Discount when going out to eat, but it's not necessarily so cool to be 40s-50s and being asked about a Senior Discount (Typically 65+, for those that may not know).

                --
                Forced Microsoft Account for Windows Login → Switch to Linux.
                • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday August 03 2018, @01:01AM

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 03 2018, @01:01AM (#716514) Homepage Journal

                  Senior discounts - yeah. Now and then. It's not something I think about. Waitress or cashier asks me how old I am - I just respond, because, uhhh, conditioning I guess. Yeah, I'm eligible, but I'm not looking for a discount when I sit down for a meal, or whatever.

                  --
                  “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:40PM (11 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:40PM (#715782)

        Who is WISE Up Wales?

        Well anyway, for the peanut gallery, here is gender essentialism [wikipedia.org]. We are interested in the transfeminism section:

        Furthermore, the essentialism of gender in feminist theory presents a problem when understanding transfeminism. Instead of understanding trans studies as another subsection or subjectivity to be subsumed under the category of "woman", we understand the task of trans studies to be "the breaking apart of this category, particularly if that breaking requires a new articulation of the relation between sex and gender, male and female". Trans subjectivity challenges the binary of gender essentialism as it disrupts the "fixed taxonomies of gender" and this creates a resistance in women's studies, which as a discipline has historically depended upon the fixedness of gender. The expressions that exist in trans identities break down the very possibility of gender essentialism by queering the binary of gender, gender roles and expectations. In recent years through the written work of transfeminists like Sandy Stone, the theory around trans women and their inclusion into feminist spaces has opened, just like it has opened in respect to race, class, sexuality and ability historically.

        IOW, the problem with gender essentialism in relation to feminism and the alt-right is the taxonomic approach to gender transition, whereby we see a fundamentally male person become a fundamentally female person. (Of course, we never see this process in reverse, because trans men are even more invisible than bisexual people. This is explained by bathroom hysteria.)

        The science says this is not correct, but that depends on how we define man and woman. A limited part of gender essentialism may be correct. Brain sex is determined during the second month of pregnancy and thereafter immutable. If we instead approach gender transition as a medical procedure to correct a reproductive system of mismatched gender (perhaps only because we do not know how to change the brain's sex) and see the patient as a member of the sex of their brain instead of reproductive system, a lot of this stuff gets so much easier.

        Introducing brain sex throws all this crap out like so many epicycles to explain planetary motion and gives us an ellipse instead.

        The user Wikileaks talks about other brain imaging studies that show that gender may not be a specturm. However that study did not disprove the earlier study, afaik, that showed that brain imaging can be used as a crude diagnostic of brain sex in both cisgender and transgender people.

        (In fact, once we understand that brain sex exists and we throw the epicycles out, we will see that there is no longer any need for these cis and trans labels. I believe it can be demonstrated that the cis and trans labels are epicycles. However, that involves bringing out the entire zoo of gender non-conforming people, from intersex people, to androgen insensitive women, to women with functional reproductive systems raised by wolves [and thus not meeting one interpretation put forward by a semi-transfeminist here of the cisgender experience], etc, etc.)

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @06:56PM (10 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @06:56PM (#715852)

          This is explained by bathroom hysteria

          We separate the sexes based on biological sex and not gender. Responsible parents do not allow their young daughters to be placed in potential danger and adult females think likewise. [bbc.co.uk] See the problem:

          Campaign group Stonewall said transgender people had a right to access single-sex facilities.

          They can use single-sex facilities, the sex they were born with or the male bathroom. Y chromosome, male bathroom, end of discussion!

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:31PM (9 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:31PM (#715868)

            We separate the sexes based on biological sex and not gender. Responsible parents do not allow their young daughters to be placed in potential danger and adult females think likewise.

            That's retarded. Bathrooms are not heavily guarded places, so any potential rapists could just enter them if they wanted. Allowing transgender people into bathrooms designed for the sex they were not born as would not increase the chances of people being raped at all. If you think it would, then you're just an irrational moron.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:53PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:53PM (#715879)

              i don't think people are worried about actual trannies raping kids. they're more worried about their kids being exposed to the tranny itself and/or it's wang. parents don't want their small kids exposed to certain things until they are older. period. also, tranny imposters who are child sex offenders are a conceivable threat.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:18PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:18PM (#715962)

                parents don't want their small kids exposed to certain things until they are older. period.

                Well, too bad. I don't think society should accommodate snowflakes at all, whether they are of the left-wing or right-wing variety. I don't care if someone's crotch fruit witnesses something that they are offended by.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:59PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:59PM (#715981)

                  I don't think society should accommodate snowflakes

                  We don't, that's why you're being put in your place here.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:02AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:02AM (#715996)

                    You are a snowflake, though. Just a different type of snowflake from SJWs.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @08:13PM (4 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @08:13PM (#715887)

              then you're just an irrational moron.

              Wrong! [metro.co.uk] It's not bathrooms but "facilities", including female changing rooms at the municipal pool. Insult people all you like, the majority will not support men in female facilities.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:21PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:21PM (#715964)

                Wrong about what? Why would that even matter that it's not just about bathrooms, since that doesn't change the point? Maybe changing rooms should be better designed in the first place, so that they actually provide privacy.

                I don't care that snowflakes might be offended that someone they don't approve of might enter their safe spaces. Period. Ultimately, the idea that this will somehow increase rape rates is just ridiculous, regardless of what you think the bathroom rules should be.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:47PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @11:47PM (#715975)

                  I don't care that snowflakes might be offended

                  You clearly are offended.

                  someone they don't approve of might enter their safe spaces.

                  Not safe spaces, private spaces.

                  Ultimately, the idea that this will somehow increase rape rates is just ridiculous

                  Exactly because females are not sharing private female facilities with biological males. Great we got there in the end.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:07AM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:07AM (#715998)

                    You clearly are offended.

                    You'd be wrong. I just think you're incorrect, hypocritical, and logically inconsistent.

                    Not safe spaces, private spaces.

                    You wouldn't accept this weak argument if an SJW said it, but don't let that stop you.

                    Exactly because females are not sharing private female facilities with biological males. Great we got there in the end.

                    There's nothing stopping a biological male who wants to rape from entering a female bathroom/changing room, regardless of what rules are in place. Bathrooms/changing rooms are not heavily guarded areas and it would be trivial for anyone to enter them. We already know that rapists are more than willing to break the law, so you're just a moron for saying this.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 02 2018, @08:37PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 02 2018, @08:37PM (#716440)

                      You wouldn't accept this weak argument if an SJW said it, but don't let that stop you.

                      The right to privacy is recognised in the UN Declaration of Human Rights but don't let your false equivalence stop you.

                      There's nothing stopping a biological male who wants to rape from entering a female bathroom/changing room, regardless of what rules are in place. Bathrooms/changing rooms are not heavily guarded areas and it would be trivial for anyone to enter them. We already know that rapists are more than willing to break the law, so you're just a moron for saying this.

                      You're seriously claiming that opportunistic acts of violence are not prevented by removing the opportunity? Your reasoning is both fallacious and dangerous.

  • (Score: 2) by Weasley on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:31PM

    by Weasley (6421) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:31PM (#715681)

    Surely this leak was to prove to the Trump administration that he is a friend and get some sort of leniency before being ejected from the embassy.

  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:34PM (11 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:34PM (#715683) Homepage Journal

    I'm certainly not going to browse 11,000 tweets. I might look at a short version, with highlights, but, probably not. That's a lot of reading, and you don't even know the context in which an individual tweet may have been made.

    I already know that I don't agree with Julian's politics. He's too damned liberal for my taste. I don't think that he understands how reality works - "real life" you might say. He's a pretty damned good journalist, IMO, and he has the proverbial Big Brass Balls. So, there's reason to like him, and reason to dislike him. The worst thing I can recall him doing, was editing that damned video that he named "Collateral Murder". And, he didn't even do a very good editing job, because if you have a clue, and listen carefully, you STILL understand that it wasn't "murder".

    So - someone who has already read all 11,000 tweety-bird twits, just tell us what there is to learn?

    --
    “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:40PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:40PM (#715689)

      Just posted a selection [soylentnews.org] - they have a LibertarianLibrarian too.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:33PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:33PM (#715775) Homepage Journal

        Librarian seems to share some of my views. I guess I could follow up on him/her. Thanks man!

        --
        “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:53PM (8 children)

      by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:53PM (#715698)

      The worst thing I can recall him doing, was editing that damned video that he named "Collateral Murder". And, he didn't even do a very good editing job, because if you have a clue, and listen carefully, you STILL understand that it wasn't "murder".

      So the story behind that video: Reuters had been trying to find out what had happened to one of their journalists who had gone missing in Iraq. Nobody in the US military would tell them what they knew. Thanks to Wikileaks, the world got to find out that he and his camera crew were gunned down by a US helicopter, and then the helicopter gunned down a pair of civilians and by accident the 2 kids who happened to be in their van who had stopped to try to help the reporter and his crew. You can hear the gunner wishing that one of the civilians writhing on the ground would pick up a weapon so that shooting them was legal (attacking unarmed people attempting to provide medical aid is illegal under the Geneva Conventions).

      It just so happened that said Reuters journalist had been telling a different story about the Iraq War than the US military wanted to be told. Which I'm sure had absolutely nothing to do with why they were targeted and killed.

      The army's excuse for all of this was:
      1. The cameras looked like RPGs. Which they don't, but never mind that.
      2. The civilians were confused with insurgents trying to remove weapons from their fallen comrades. Never mind that nobody on the ground had any weapons, and you can hear one of the gunners rooting for one of the civilians to pick up something that looked like a weapon so the shooting could look all nice and legal again.

      Simply dismissing all that as "you don't have a clue" is to be willfully blind to what happened because patriotism or something. What that helicopter was doing was either (a) against the rules of engagement and the people in there should have been punished, or (b) was following the rules of engagement and US command was breaking treaties. I'm going with option (b), because the US also targeted a hospital in Afghanistan when they had every reason to know it was a hospital.

      --
      Alcohol makes the world go round ... and round and round.
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by VLM on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:11PM (4 children)

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:11PM (#715713)

        I don't entirely disagree with you. However some finer points:

        It just so happened that said Reuters journalist had been telling a different story about the Iraq War than the US military wanted to be told.

        This being "most of the legacy media" and all the international reporters, pretty much ANY journalist getting waxed would qualify; I'm just saying its a realistic conspiracy theory that "the military" was like F-them light em up because they're intensely biased against them journalists in a war zone; that specific poor bastard who got lit up was VERY unlikely to be specifically targeted. A SN automobile analogy is consider the endless cop killings of unarmed black men, the cops go out some night "Some black dude want to fight or pull a gun on me, I'm gonna F him up" is quite a bit different than "tonight I hunt mr XYZ of whatever address SSN 123-45-6789 and I will kill him at 1:32 am in a premeditated fashion".

        The cameras looked like RPGs. Which they don't, but never mind that.

        Dude; you put a tube-thing on your shoulder in a war zone around armor or air assets and you're a dead man. Again the bad car analogy, if you're pulled over by a cop and whip out your airsoft pistol and stick in the cops face, absolutely no one on the planet can be surprised when you end up dead, no matter how smug you'll be in the last few seconds that technically the cop did the "wrong thing". If you want to be billy bad ass the gutsy cameraman, well, thats really cool and all, but you're going in knowing that behavior has maybe 50% odds of dying.

        What that helicopter was doing was either

        It just looks bad out of context. You know how propaganda works and this would be food for it. A standard SN Trump analogy would be if Trump introduced legislation "Criminalizing the use of the word Nigger in national parks as a misdemeanor offense because of its disorderly conduct effects also we're sick of hearing shitty rap 'music' in national parks" you know the usual suspects would carefully edit it down to one word soundbite of Trump saying "nigger" and nothing else and rant about how he needs to be impeached for saying the n-word and similar idiocy, carefully burying the context. Likewise in the context of an ongoing running battle, WTF are civies and journalists standing around at the end of a gun barrel anyway?

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:00PM (1 child)

          by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:00PM (#715749)

          It just so happened that said Reuters journalist had been telling a different story about the Iraq War than the US military wanted to be told.

          This being "most of the legacy media" and all the international reporters, pretty much ANY journalist getting waxed would qualify

          To be more specific about this: This particular journalist was not part of the Pentagon's "embedding" program, which was all about showing the story the Pentagon wanted told to the folks back home. Propaganda aimed at the US public is in fact an essential aspect of US military strategy, because the Pentagon firmly believes that the reason they lost the Vietnam War is that the US public learned the truth about what was going on and stabbed them in the back, and they're determined to do everything in their power to prevent that from ever happening again.

          --
          Alcohol makes the world go round ... and round and round.
          • (Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:31PM

            by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:31PM (#716195)

            To be more specific about this: This particular journalist was not part of the Pentagon's "embedding" program

            Oh god thats even worse. At least embedded guys are "known" so "yo our cameraman is over there don't shoot him" is a thing. But now you got randos running around in unknown locations with cameras (and don't forget ISIS propaganda videos... we're not the only side with cameras)

            Its kinda like re-enactors at a civil war camp public event ARE snake in the grass tools of the imperialistic state, but at least the cops are expecting black powder rifle and pistol dudes wandering around, so they're unlikely to be shot despite being government collaborators. Some rando who likes the civil war running around dark alleys at 2am while attending an event during the day is gonna get shot by the cops if he's brandishing his 1855 civil war navy revolver in that dark alley. And its not because the cops are evil or guns are bad, its because the guy is a crazy risk taking lunatic.

        • (Score: 2) by Spamalope on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:17AM (1 child)

          by Spamalope (5233) on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:17AM (#716004) Homepage

          The cameras looked like RPGs. Which they don't, but never mind that.

          Dude; you put a tube-thing on your shoulder in a war zone around armor or air assets and you're a dead man. Again the bad car analogy, if you're pulled over by a cop and whip out your airsoft pistol and stick in the cops face, absolutely no one on the planet can be surprised when you end up dead, no matter how smug you'll be in the last few seconds that technically the cop did the "wrong thing". If you want to be billy bad ass the gutsy cameraman, well, thats really cool and all, but you're going in knowing that behavior has maybe 50% odds of dying.

          Yeah, but if you saw that whole episode it was a bit different. A photographer was with a group that had an RPG. The group with the RPG was targeted. At the time of the engagement, only part of the group was visible to the camera. The photographer was visible but the RPG person wasn't, so the video was cut to only show the time when the RPG person wasn't visible so an incendiary yellow journalism story could be made about targeting a journalist. (the video was not from the point of view of those fighting)

          • (Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:35PM

            by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:35PM (#716199)

            Given what we've come to expect from journalists, why is no one surprised?

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:22PM (2 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:22PM (#715765) Homepage Journal

        You've heard of "embedded journalists", I presume. That is exactly what the Reuters journalist was - except he wasn't embedded on our side, or even with an allied force. He was embedded in an insurgent unit.

        That same insurgent unit had been firing upon our ground troops in the immediate vicinity - which is the REASON the Apache was there. The Apache found the insurgents who had been firing on US troops, only minutes before. It isn't clear to me how much time had passed - 5 to 15 minutes, it seems, but it was mere minutes. The Apache found an armed group of men exactly where it expected to find an armed group of men.

        Unfortunately for the journalist, that damned camera DOES look like a weapon, not to mention that he was "embedded" with an enemy unit. Yes, he seemed like a legitimate target to the crew of the Apache.

        You listened to the radio chatter? It's a little difficult to focus on the chatter, good for you. Why don't you listen again? It does become clear that these insurgents had been engaged in a skirmish with US troops in the very recent past. Legitimate targets, all of them.

        The two civilians who came by and tried to render assistance? I have a little bit of a hard time justifying that. But, you'd have a much harder time trying to bring charges under the Geneva conventions for shooting them up. They were, in fact, attempting to render assistance to members of a known enemy unit.

        The kids? Damn, that sucks. Who brings kids to a shootout?

        --
        “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
        • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:29PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @05:29PM (#715810)

          The two civilians who came by and tried to render assistance? I have a little bit of a hard time justifying that. But, you'd have a much harder time trying to bring charges under the Geneva conventions for shooting them up. They were, in fact, attempting to render assistance to members of a known enemy unit.

          You should be having a much harder time, not just a little. Two civilians rendering aid and you think they were like "oh I know these guys, they are totally members of ISIS or whatever trying to fight off the US imperials, I will totally help them out while they're being shot!" Gimme a break, besides the entire situation occurred because of US imperialism and lies to get the public on board with another war. Oh sorry, military action!

          Who brings kids to a shootout? Uuuugggh, your victim blaming is strong today! Why didn't these civilians know an attack helicopter was scheduled for that day and keep their kids at home??? What degenerate parents /s

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:13AM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:13AM (#716002) Homepage Journal

            You obviously have a lot of war zone experience, and are unaffected by the "fog of war". Is your name Mephistopholes, or Jesus Christ?

            --
            “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by cubancigar11 on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:56PM (8 children)

    by cubancigar11 (330) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @02:56PM (#715701) Homepage Journal

    From https://theintercept.com/2018/02/14/julian-assange-wikileaks-election-clinton-trump/ [theintercept.com] sic

    We believe it would be much better for GOP to win. Dems+Media+liberals woudl then form a block to reign in their worst qualities. With Hillary in charge, GOP will be pushing for her worst qualities, dems+media+neoliberals will be mute. She’s a bright, well connected, sadistic sociopath.”

            GOP will generate a lot of opposition, including through dumb moves. Hillary will do the same, but co-opt the liberal opposition and the GOP opposition. Hence Hillary has greater freedom to start wars than the GOP, and has the will to do so.

    I am for one very very glad to know that I share my views with great strong people working with wikileaks. Whether the world is turning out to be like what was imagined or not is debatable, and probably only knowable after a decade of this presidency, but Wikileaks wanting to defeat HC is fair and square and understandable.

    The Dem's response though is all you need to know about these so-called-liberals who are claiming that these leaks provide

    examples of homophobia, transphobia, ableism, sexism, racism, antisemitism and other objectionable content and language.

    This is the state of "left-wing" of a country that a decade ago was claiming that there is no left-wing party in USA, there is right and there is far-right.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:02PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:02PM (#715703)

      Yes, 2 bad choices without a winning decision, just hedging your bets against the devil you know. Nobody on the left with an iota of education or geopolitical awareness could have supported the Clintons. [wikipedia.org] Trump was a lifelong democrat with traditional left wing views (jobs for the working class) who ran on the republican ticket.

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:20PM (1 child)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:20PM (#715723)

      examples of homophobia, transphobia, ableism, sexism, racism, antisemitism and other objectionable content and language.

      This is the state of "left-wing" of a country that a decade ago was claiming that there is no left-wing party in USA, there is right and there is far-right.

      If you want to put people in camps, you can't do it at a propaganda level by saying "put em in camps" you do it by helping everyone see they're nuts and the most logical path of least resistance for dealing with violent irrational loons is putting them in camps for everyone's safety.

      Meanwhile the "Evil Nazis" look like saints, best economic growth ever, great foreign policy achievements, sane and stable looking compared to the nutjobs violently rioting in the street and the propaganda channels which seem completely disconnected from day to day reality (because... they are)

      The people doing the most to put the left in camps in the future, are on the left... Thanks guys, we really appreciate the help!

      Something similar kinda happened in the 1.0 days back in Germany in the 20s, some really disgusting stuff going on culturally in Weimar Germany led to the general population attitude of, well, better having them in ovens than having them as neighbors...

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:54PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:54PM (#716253) Homepage Journal

        general population attitude of, well, better having them in ovens than having them as neighbors...

        TBH, I would have to go searching for credible citations. But, I was always under the impression that the "general population" of Germany was kept ignorant of the concentration camps. You had to be a member of the party before you might be given any of that information. And, yes, even members of the party who had no "need to know" were probably kept ignorant.

        Things probably changed as the war progressed, and people probably began to guess what was going on.

        But, I'll repeat - I would have to do some serious searching to back that up.

        --
        “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:26PM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday August 01 2018, @03:26PM (#715727) Journal

      That's it? Wow.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:14PM (3 children)

      by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @04:14PM (#715757)

      Dems+Media+liberals woudl then form a block to reign in their worst qualities.

      I think it's worth noting that so far, that does not appear to have worked out that way.

      Part of the reason is that as far as I can tell, the Dem's plan for 2020 is to run somebody not named "Hillary Clinton" (probably Clinton's handpicked successor Kirsten Gillibrand) thoroughly vetted by Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, and a few other favored corporations, and repeat their oh-so-successful 2016 strategy of "Hey, we aren't as bad as Trump!" That strategy depends on Trump being as awful as possible as president, which means they have not been doing much of anything to oppose the worst parts of his administration's activities. In short, they're rolling over and playing dead on purpose so they can then turn around and talk about how terrible the other guys are even though they have the power to at least pretend to try to stop them. Evidence for this includes floating Have you seen the other guys? [thehill.com] as their campaign slogan, and this article on Gillibrand [nytimes.com] published 1 day after the Clinton's "Third Way" finished meeting in Columbus OH to plan for making sure the nomination didn't go to anyone who sounded too much like Bernie Sanders.

      --
      Alcohol makes the world go round ... and round and round.
      • (Score: 2) by shortscreen on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:33PM (2 children)

        by shortscreen (2252) on Wednesday August 01 2018, @07:33PM (#715870) Journal

        Dems+Media+liberals woudl then form a block to reign in their worst qualities.

        I think it's worth noting that so far, that does not appear to have worked out that way.

        I'd say the "form a block" part happened. The rest, not so much.

        Despite all the shouting, what has actually been reined in? Maybe the policy on ICE detainees? That's all I can think of.

        • (Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Thursday August 02 2018, @07:15AM (1 child)

          by cubancigar11 (330) on Thursday August 02 2018, @07:15AM (#716099) Homepage Journal

          Reigning anything would require taking this presidency seriously. But that would require accepting that Hillary lost! May be learn why?

          That would be anathema to the plethora of far-left people who embedded themselves into the system during Obama. They would be recognized as the root cause. They won't let it happen.

          Instead of all that, HIllary didn't lose - RUSSIA did it! We just need to keep making fun of Trump and all its supporters! Double down on the identity politics strategy! They don't want to reign in anything, they have wanted to tear the system down even before all this drama started.

          I think the news of economic betterment we hear today is because of Obama's policies, not Trumps. I also think that Trump has screwed international relations with all the countries all over the world. But Obama did fail in at least one thing - reigning in the far-leftists.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:59PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 02 2018, @02:59PM (#716256) Homepage Journal

            they have wanted to tear the system down even before all this drama started.

            That is kinda how I see the parties.

            The republicans are a bunch of incompetent halfwits, trying to build something. They've got no idea what they are doing, but they try, anyway.

            The dems are busy trying to destroy what the republicans are doing. They may or may not be halfwits, but they are certainly destructive.

            Maybe that helps to explain my contempt for both parties, but the greater contempt for the D's.

            --
            “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ― George S. Patton on Ukraine
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