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President Donald Trump appears to have changed his story about a 2016 meeting at Trump Tower that is pivotal to the special counsel's investigation, tweeting that his son met with a Kremlin-connected lawyer to collect information about his political opponent.
[...] That is a far different explanation than Trump gave 13 months ago, when a statement dictated by the president but released under the name of Donald Trump Jr., read: "We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago."
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President Trump Changed His Story on Son's Meeting with Russian Lawyer
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Misfortune, n.:
The kind of fortune that never misses.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday August 14 2018, @04:34PM (6 children)
My take is that I would have confirmed your biases no matter what I wrote. After all, you went into this already "knowing" what shenanigans I was supposedly going to do.
Too bad. Libertarians are one of the most liberal groups out there - liberal as in advocators for freedom. To get lumped in with "conservatives" in some blob called the "Right" is a disservice to your brain.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Tuesday August 14 2018, @06:40PM (5 children)
I've tossed around several replies to this post in my head. There's no good way to respond to someone feeling like I don't respect their dignity.
But of course I wouldn't confirm my biases no matter what you said. Those biases were very specific. It's easy to assume I would, because bad faith argumentation is everywhere in the world. To confirm my biases, the ones I laid out, in front of you before you even started posting this hellthread, you'd have to argue some pedantic point through semantics and never acknowledge the core idea for what it was. You did exactly that.
Look, I get it. You have your reasons, and no one's ever forced to acknowledge a point has meaning. It feels like making the other person, who is brash, rude, and having a deleterious ideology towards yours, right. I don't need to be right, but I do need to deal with people honest enough to go "You know, Trump outright makes shit up daily, and that's pretty different from being wrong about the real world outcomes of a healthcare bill." That doesn't make Obama good. That doesn't make Obama a pillar of honesty. It doesn't make me right about everything, but it's really hard to deal with just how many of you people do exactly this.
(Also, no. No libertarian has ever done anything for freedom, ever, unless you a priori buy into the fundamentals of their, yes, far-right ideology about money and property representing freedom in some foundational way, which just as often impede freedom in a more philosophical and human sense.)
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday August 15 2018, @12:43PM (4 children)
Again, you have yet to make any such point. First, we still don't know what group you're even speaking of (labels in the absence of any sort of criteria are useless, hint hint) or why they're supposed to be arguing in bad faith. Then you've run your mouth for a half dozen or so posts without actually saying anything. I get the impression you disagree with me about something, but not what that is supposed to be.
Let's look at what you refuse to see. Libertarians oppose (a non-inclusive list):
Now some can and do disagree about inclusion of various items on this list. But this list exists in the first place because we're not collectively doing enough to prevent this loss of freedom. At least libertarians are doing something.
Now we get into the Orwellian war is peace stuff. This alleged "far-right" ideology has one of the most liberal and non-conservative policy out there concerning money and property. And the rest of the libertarian philosophy such as backing democracy and freedom has little to do with much of the far-right agenda, such as it is.
And what is the claim about "impeding freedom in a more philosophical and human sense"? Why is that something that should matter? Such fluff is typical of the counterarguments. People mouth off [soylentnews.org] about how monopolies and oligopolies are end states of "free markets" while ignoring that these are often even more the end states of the supposed cures to free markets' problems. We're not better off that most developed world countries have state institutions dominating such things as peoples' pensions, health care, and education. We're not better off that our heavy (and still growing) regulatory burden encourages the growth of large corporations (and the oligopolies that we supposedly care about preventing). We're not better off that a half century or more of allegedly pro-labor or pro-poor social policy hasn't and never will yield the advertised results.
Instead, we're better off because we let people do their own thing.
It's a far less egregious case of lying for starters. Obama's lie hurt tens of millions of people. Trump's tweet lies hurt mostly Trump's reputation.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Wednesday August 15 2018, @02:23PM (3 children)
Yeah, I'm sure completely untrue merit lies about putting children literally innocent of any crime into fucking 8x8ft dog cages, where some die of preventable illnesses because no one was paying attention because their parents were illegal immigrants, and publicly claiming not days before it came out that they all were given foster homes and good schools ("or something") is just as bad as your maliciously misreading a statement to make it wrong.
You scum fucking dishonest fuck. You complete horseshit of a human being. Don't bother to tell me, I know you don't personally approve of the concentration camps that you knowingly voted for.
Fuck you. Fuck everything about your ideology. Fuck you as a human being. The world deserves better than you.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 16 2018, @03:03AM
As I noted before, Obama's lies hurt a lot of people. Trump's lie here hurt himself. The children weren't imprisoned even a day longer by those Tweet lies.
That in a nutshell is your problem not mine. How much more ugliness will we find when we peel you back even further?
Called it.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 16 2018, @12:35PM
That was over a several year period. Let us also keep in mind that it wasn't a mystery that such changes in health care plans would have come, just due to the large changes in the cost of such health insurance. Changes and dropping health care plans would be a typical and easily foreseeable consequence of law that raises the price and liabilities of health insurance.
And Obama didn't throw this out on Twitter one dark night, but repeatedly made the claim over several years in many public speeches. Then when the original statement became untenable to continue, claimed he didn't really mean it. As to the tweet(s), I think SN commenter, theluggage has a sound take [soylentnews.org] on the value of Twitter speech:
[...]
Finally, if you're having trouble with people quoting PolitiFact in order to defend the Orange One, perhaps you could instead acknowledge the truth of the observation and continue with your own, namely that a certain other US president has obtained Lie of the Year status for the last three years (and probably will have a lock on the thing for the rest of his tenure as president). But I suppose debate requires thinking and that's hard for you, right?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 16 2018, @12:47PM