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Buried on page 25 of the 2019 budget proposal for the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), under the heading "Fundamental Measurement, Quantum Science, and Measurement Dissemination", there's a short entry that has caused plenty of debate and even a fair deal of anger among those in the amateur radio scene:
NIST will discontinue the dissemination of the U.S. time and frequency via the NIST radio stations in Hawaii and Ft. Collins, CO. These radio stations transmit signals that are used to synchronize consumer electronic products like wall clocks, clock radios, and wristwatches, and may be used in other applications like appliances, cameras, and irrigation controllers.
The NIST stations in Hawaii and Colorado are the home of WWV, WWVH, and WWVB. The oldest of these stations, WWV, has been broadcasting in some form or another since 1920; making it the longest continually operating radio station in the United States. Yet in order to save approximately $6.3 million, these time and frequency standard stations are potentially on the chopping block.
Source: https://hackaday.com/2018/08/20/what-will-you-do-if-wwvb-goes-silent/
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27 2018, @11:30AM (24 children)
On another site, a poster produced a reasoning that at least the WWVB signal that millions of consumer goods listen into for "auto-clock-setting" features likely won't go silent due to typical "political posturing".
The reasoning went something like this:
This very well may be just what we are seeing here.
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Monday August 27 2018, @12:55PM (18 children)
Like when I talk about cutting taxes the first thing out of peoples' mouths is firing the police, fire department, and road crew. Yeah I totally mean cutting critical infrastructure first.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday August 27 2018, @01:59PM (17 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27 2018, @02:12PM
The NSA wiretap budget? I'm sure you could save a lot of money that way.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27 2018, @02:42PM (3 children)
Police, fire, public schools.
Everything that is 'so important' that the government will literally come to your house and seize everything you have and/or shoot you if you don't pay for them. It's called "property tax".
If I don't want to pay a road tax, I can stop driving. If I don't want to pay sales tax, I can stop buying stuff. If I don't want to pay for police, fire, and public schools...they show up and *force* me to pay for them.
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Monday August 27 2018, @03:54PM (1 child)
"It's called "property tax"
If you don't want to pay property tax, don't own property.
"the government will literally come to your house and seize everything you have and/or shoot you if you don't pay for them."
Oh grow up; they'll only shoot you if you get violent in your confrontation. No one has ever been shot simply for refusing to pay taxes. You can get shot for speeding too, if instead of stopping when caught you decide to try to use the vehicle to run people down to get away... but then even in that case, you aren't being shot for speeding are you? No, its for the attempted murder.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Monday August 27 2018, @04:23PM
You're right, sort of. One wouldn't get shot directly for refusing to pay taxes. First they come to take ones things, to evict one from ones property, or perhaps even for the purpose of kidnapping. Then, if one resists, one is shot. Not for refusing to pay taxes. For resisting.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Monday August 27 2018, @06:19PM
There must be a tiny island somewhere that would suit your unique tastes. Or a remote cave somewhere.
Humans have always formed governments. Taxes are at least as old as recorded history.
It is possible to stop paying taxes. They won't force you to pay them. They will eventually take you to a place with: No driving. No buying stuff. No need for police, fire or public schools.
If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, you technically only had one piece.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by jmorris on Monday August 27 2018, @05:53PM (9 children)
Too many things to list. For every line item ask a few questions:
1. Is this level of government even authorized to do this? Hint: the List of Enumerated powers for the Fed Gov is really short. Most of what it currently does is not on the list. 9th and 10th Amendment time. States vary a lot but unless they go back and specifically amend to permit, a good part of what they do isn't authorized either.
2. Is this function something that government is best suited to doing? Must it actually do it or can it privatize it?
3. Does it need doing at all? Even if the government is best suited to do it, does it need doing? Most times this question is never asked. Or it was worth doing at some point in the past but government programs tend toward immortality.
4. How much money is being wasted on this? Almost any government program could cut 10% and not reduce end point functions.
So lets look at government schools and apply these guidelines. Not listed as an enumerated power so eliminate the Dept of Education entirely. Any statistical aggregation or other vestigial functions can be absorbed into other Depts. If a State or local government wants to run K12 schools it probably can. But look at the waste. The ratio of employees to students has dropped greatly over the last hundred years as all manner of useless functionaries have been stuffed into schools while student performance has dropped by every measure applied to the subject. Obviously throwing money and headcount at the problem did nothing to help and almost certainly made things worse. So cut. Now look how much money is wasted on athletic programs that are mostly prestige ops for the school and alumni along with a free farm team system feeding the NCAA and NFL/NBA. If somebody else wants to raise money and build the lavish stadiums, gymnasiums, field houses and other crap then let them. But no more taxpayer subsidies. If the PE coach wants to run a team on a truly amateur level against other local schools it can be done on a lot less budget.
Policing? Well I have heard a local mayor say they would have dis-incorporated a long time ago had it not been for a short strip of US Highway running along the edge of the city limit that pays all of the expenses of maintaining a town. Taxation Without Representation, since they never write tickets on locals who can vote against it. So that entire police force should not exist since it exists to raise the taxes to allow it to exist to raise..... While not all are on that level, most "police" spend at least half their work day as tax collectors running the same basic scam. If a good chunk of em were cut to part time public safety would not be impacted at all. But the residents of a town would be forced to actually pay for the level of police it wants to have instead of taxing passers by. Then they bitch when they get nailed as soon as they leave town and fail to realize those greedy bastards in the town next door are doing exactly the same thing as they are.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday August 27 2018, @06:23PM (8 children)
Privatize the fire department.
It can be paid by fire insurance. Sort of like healthcare.
Oh, we can't start fighting the fire yet. Your policy doesn't kick in until at least 1/6 of your home is destroyed.
If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, you technically only had one piece.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by jmorris on Monday August 27 2018, @07:26PM
Read a history book. First fire departments WERE created by the insurance industry. If you sell enough premiums in an area it pays to build a fire station to reduce claims so they did. Eventually the government took it over. Did cost / benefit improve or decline? Once you can answer that you can decide whether government should continue running them or explore other options. I remember when the ambulance company around here ran subscription drives. Members got close to free use, anyone else would of course be served but you got a hefty bill and most health insurance balked at covering it. Think most insurance just covers ambulance service now because there aren't membership drives anymore. But they aren't government agencies either so there is your example of private emergency services in action in $current_year.
Remember, just because government should not do something does not mean it should not be done. We used to have a wide ranging set of interlocking charities helping the poor and unfortunate. Mutual aid societies, churches, charitable foundations and trusts, etc. Now all that has been almost entirely replaced with a vast set of interlocking government agencies even when the final end point is a "private" charity in a "public / private partnership" where a private entity hands out government money. Did things improve? Has the poverty rate moved? Which is sort of a trick question since the official metric used to measure poverty incorporates a mechanism to assure a fairly unchanging percentage of the population will officially be "in poverty" regardless of presence of lack of material want that would impair health or the basics of living. Talk about job insurance. When obesity is the number one health issue for "the poorest" it is obvious we solved any actual problem that can be solved by throwing money at it generations ago. What is left is a self licking ice cream cone called the "poverty industry."
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday August 28 2018, @02:59AM (6 children)
Volunteer fire depts. often work on a subscription basis: either you pay the fee that keeps the dept. running (mainly paying for equipment maintenance), or when your house catches fire, they let it burn (to whatever degree doesn't endanger other property) -- because otherwise pretty soon everyone is a freeloader.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday August 28 2018, @12:55PM (5 children)
Interesting.
It sounds like insurance. Or a protection racket. But maybe I'm being redundant.
If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, you technically only had one piece.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday August 28 2018, @02:08PM (4 children)
Yeah, same principle, just done on a purely voluntary basis. It's not like they go around setting fires in houses that don't pay up.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday August 28 2018, @02:17PM (1 child)
That is a good thing.
But doing so would strongly encourage everyone to pay up.
Insurance companies still haven't picked up on this technique to increase revenue.
If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, you technically only had one piece.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday August 28 2018, @04:19PM
Good point.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday August 28 2018, @06:55PM (1 child)
Not as a general practice, no. Of course, there are individual criminals in any group.
There have actually been quite a few known cases where people who were firefighters or associated in some way engage in essentially random arson. John Leonard Orr, for instance, was an arson investigator and former fire captain who was tried and convited of serial arson. Currently serving a life sentence.
All the examples I can think of were associated with public departments though, not volunteers. Not that it couldn't happen; in fact I bet it has, I just can't think of an example off the top of my head.
But yes, that's clearly criminal behavior that's not tolerated when it's detected.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday August 28 2018, @08:09PM
Well, yeah, there will always be a few nuts who descend from professed altruism into criminal behavior....
...and I don't doubt that in the days of private protection rackets that preceded state-run police, the occasional staged robbery encouraged everyone to pay up.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday August 27 2018, @06:26PM (1 child)
SLS -- Senate Launch System
If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, you technically only had one piece.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27 2018, @07:55PM
Senate Lunch System
Fixed that for you!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday August 27 2018, @02:46PM
3. Agency proposes cuts to extremely useful services for millions.
4. Politicans calculate it will not cost them votes nor financial support from important industrial complex backers, and may in fact gain votes with the "we don't care about science only our jerbs" crowd. (None of whom are employed by the companies/sectors involved). Politicians say "fuck it."
5. Agency gets to decide if it really needs the service and what else it could sacrifice instead and then go begging hat-in-hand to restore lesser funding.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27 2018, @03:10PM
But, in most cases there's no point in making those 10% cuts as most of those agencies aren't being allocated enough money to be a real problem. In this case, that's $6.3m, which for an individual is a lot of money, but for a hundred people, that would be enough to buy most of them houses. Not a large amount of money when you consider how much money is being spent by the government.
The real budget problems never get addressed because they're supported by powerful special interest groups, the defense budget and those asinine tax cuts for the rich are nearly the entire budget problem. We don't need over $700bn for our military, that's more than we were spending at the height of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and with all the funding, you better believe their going to find a war that will necessitate further increases.
Likewise with the tax cuts for the wealthy, the only thing it's succeeded in doing there is throwing fuel on the stock market and moving the upcoming market correction closer. The poor will wind up losing out and the rich will use that as an opportunity to secure even more wealth and buy weaker companies at a discount, further concentrating the power in the hands of a small number of people, just like they did during the last recession.
And yet, the cuts we're likely to get are going to be to social programs that benefit normal people and the tax hikes are ultimately on the normal people as well.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27 2018, @04:18PM (1 child)
Came here to post the same speculation: it sounds like the budge hoopla usually around cutting national/state parks services.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 28 2018, @08:59PM
I think the problem is that Congress feels safe doing this, knowing the public won't organize and start raising all sorts of ruckus over Congressional retirement plans, medical plans, and double-dipping.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Monday August 27 2018, @06:09PM
Agency proposes cuts only to extremely popular services,
If the only people complaining are HAM people then I'm pretty confident that it's not actually an extremely popular service.