SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Aaaaaargh. This is going to be news to precisely no one who knows a woman or is one, but I'm gonna say it again anyway: womens' clothing SUCKS.
First, and biggest problem: they all assume that if you're a given size in one measurement, the rest of you matches up too. This couldn't be further from the truth. According to a standard size chart, I have the waist of a 12, the hips of a 14 or 16, and the bust of a 16. This makes finding anything with a proper fit basically impossible. You *have* to go with the larger measurements, which means 1) high-rise and mid-rise jeans are too big around the middle and 2) there is simply no way I can wear a dress or other one-piece clothing item without alterations.
Second: why the bloody hell do sizes *differ* from manufacturer to manufacturer?! In some brands I'm a 12 waist, in some a 10, in one a 14 (wtf), and of course everything else varies as well. This varies brand by brand, even if you're shopping in the same store. If you wonder why we take eleventy hojillion items to the dressing room and spend so much time trying stuff on, THIS is why.
Third: pockets. Full stop. Yes, this is getting better, but it's hard to find pants that have the number and size pockets mens' pants do. I know, I know, we're supposed to splash out several hundred dollars on some ruinously expensive branded handbag. Screw that. I don't have the money, and even if I did it wouldn't be spent on a handbag. And good grief are they ugly, with their diamond patterns or repeated monograms or whatever. No, my messenger bag does fine for all my carry-stuff-around needs, and you can't fit a laptop in a $400 Gucci handbag. I may be femme but I'm not stupid, or lipstick for that matter.
In my opinion, the lack of pockets is something more cynical and sinister than just a ploy to get women to buy handbags: it's a deliberate removal of our agency. And false pockets, the ones that are just sewn-on seams with no actual depth, can DIAF.
Fourth: Quality and price. Mens' clothing seems a lot more substantial and I wear what pieces of it I can for that reason. It's also cheaper, aside from suits and formalwear. I can get a men's size L t-shirt (flaps on me like a tent but the M won't fit my chest...) for something like $5 at Shopko. I have *never* seen a womens' shirt for that price outside a very low-end thrift store, and the equivalents are smaller, thinner, made of less-durable materials, and MORE expensive.
Fifth: too much of our clothing is basically candy wrappers. What I mean by this is it exists mostly to imply what's under it, either by showing a lot of skin or, less greasily, indicating by color or pattern that "the person wearing this is demure, defenseless, meek, quiet, and perfectly happy to be basically an object." I really think sometimes that all the pink and floral pattern stuff is some sort of salve to mens' fragile egos, or at the very least a way of firmly separating the two sexes by clothing and letting all concerned know who stands where in the power dynamic.
Now yes, I'm aware 2/3 of the time men are not looking at our clothes specifically. And yes, I am very much aware most of this stuff is done to compete with *other women,* which is another game I flat-out refuse to play. It still pisses me off, and many a time I've been standing in the changing room thinking to myself "Madokami have mercy, WHAT does a girl need to do to get something functional, well-fitting, and decently-priced that *doesn't* tell the world I'm a simpering moron with no aims in life other than to lasso a guy?!"
There's way too much politics surrounding clothing, is what this boils down to. Politics, and something a level or two under it, also. I'm very aware that by not "playing the game" I'm shut out of many social interactions, and for interviews I do the "pretend to be perfectly normal" game with light makeup and the "appropriate" clothes, but what a crock. Do men worry about this stuff? It doesn't seem like it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday August 28 2018, @04:15PM
The price of being deviant. A simple shirt. Most of my life, if I got a shirt that fit around my neck, it hung like a tent, but the sleeves were too short. I was about 22 when I finally caved in, and started finding seamstresses to alter my clothing for me. I didn't demand "form fitting", but, FFS, I didn't want my shirt to billow like a sail with every breeze that came along!
WTF you want to be normal for, anyway? That makes you a deviant deviant, doesn't it?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 28 2018, @04:31PM (1 child)
It's a mix of economics and societal expectations.
Men typically prioritize price and durability over all else. They don't care much about fit, variety of styles, variety of colors, or brand and don't have as many types of clothing articles. Clothing companies don't bother with much advertising and stores will stock 4 sizes (S, M, L, XL) and a handful of colors (white, black, and darker shades of red, blue, and green) that will cover the minimal requirements of 80% of the men that go there. This situation obviously greatly contrasts the one you describe.
This is the norm for men, so society has low expectations for men's fashion. Men self-police and judge others who are too expressive, wear atypical colors or styles, and spend too much time or money on clothes, but don't compete based on fashion.
I also doubt that there's a male conspiracy to specifically deprive women of pockets. If anything is being deprived it would be through neglect. An example that comes to mind is that it took a long time before jeans were made for women. Levi was so desperate for ideas that they started making suits and they still didn't think of trying to sell their regular product to the other half of the population.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @03:18AM
Some examples of Levi's desperate attempts at suits:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mazeman2011/8104991644 [flickr.com]
http://theclothingwarehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Levis-Panatella.jpg [theclothingwarehouse.com]
http://theclothingwarehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Levis-Panatella-2.jpg [theclothingwarehouse.com]
(Score: 3, Funny) by Snow on Tuesday August 28 2018, @04:37PM
There is a lot of men's clothes that fit poorly too. Men are just more likely to not care if it fits properly or not. I am tall, but skinny. Men's clothes seems to assume that if you are tall, then you are also fat. So, unless I can find a tailored cut, the middle will be too large or the the sleeves will be too short. I've wanted to take some of my shirts into a tailor, but I'm afraid they will ruin my shirts... I should take one of my older shirts in for a test run.
Pockets are handy, but also affect the style and fit. I try to keep my pockets empty with tighter fitting pants -- especially dress pants. Keys/phones/wallets make weird bulges and are uncomfortable. I try to keep things in my jacket pockets. Men's clothes can be cheap, but so can women's. I see all sorts of cheap women's clothes. Panties 2/$5? Easy. Boxers are like $20/pair.
I like that women have more freedom with their clothes. I think I dress pretty well. I wear fancy shirts. I wear pants that fit well. I have shoes that don't have Velcro. I wear funky socks. I like dressing well because it makes me feel better about myself... but... I think a lot of people think I'm gay because of the way I dress.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 28 2018, @05:05PM (2 children)
She needs to sew her own.
Dead serious here, my mother and sisters sew a lot of their own clothes, especially work clothes. A bit of background: weird fundamentalists, of the skirt-wearing, homeschooling, "pants are men's clothing, so women wearing them is a sin" variety, so it's quite common for the ladies, when engaged in outdoors or physically active work, to wear "culottes"; if you're not familiar with the term, in weird fundamentalist circles, "culottes" can mean anything from "ordinary pants, but I call them culottes so they're totally not men's clothing" through "pants, but baggier for modesty" on up to full-on divided skirts; our family tended toward the latter end, with it being a point of pride among my sisters for the other girls to believe their culottes were a skirt right up until they did something impossibly athletic.
Apparently, while there's enough weird fundamentalists to support some commercial manufacture of culottes, they suffer from the same flimsy materials and paucity of pockets as women's skirts. So the ladies would sew their own work skirts and culottes from normal denim, with adequate (for them), large, well-attached pockets. They usually went with only two pockets, because they do carry purses everywhere, and thus don't use pockets all that much, but if you can add pockets to a pocketless design (as they frequently did), I'm sure you can just as well add the full complement of jeans pockets. Of course they also made skirts and dresses out of lighter fabrics, for less demanding use.
And it goes without saying, the fit was always right -- as I understand it, they'd trial fit the garment, with pinned seams, before sewing, and make any adjustments needed.
I wish I had learned sewing too, but sewing class was mandatory for girls and optional for boys (yeah, I know -- keep in mind I'm disagreeing with this!) -- Mom was willing to teach the boys, and I think I did "make" a denim sheath for a wooden sword as a first sewing project, but of course I had a lot of help on that, and with no follow-up lessons (kid me thought he had better things to do), what little I may have learned didn't stick.
While I absolutely agree that women have it far worse than men w/r/t clothing, I've still got some minor difficulties finding durable work pants with pockets that suit me, and have often thought of just adding cargo pockets of my own design to a solid pair of work jeans -- but I can't sew to speak of, and am not prepared to invest the time learning it at this point.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday August 30 2018, @06:06PM (1 child)
Duluth Trading Company, thread closed.
Note you may not LIKE durable clothes once you get them. My Army BDUs were pretty durable but hot as hell in the summer and not too stylish. Likewise one of the Duluth Trading Company pants options is made of something between firehose and canvas tent material; quite indestructible, if you like pants that weight like five pounds.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @10:51PM
Must take an effort to wash and dry
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 28 2018, @05:18PM (4 children)
49/50, actually. The other two percent are gay. The only real exceptions are way out of the ordinary outfits and t-shirts with writing on them (which we only read because it's where we were looking anyway).
As for the rest, try Carhartt. The t-shirts are expensive compared to garden variety t-shirts but they're sturdier built and will last a lot longer. The jeans are also built like a brick shithouse though they're not really any more expensive, which makes sense being as they're work clothes for people whose jobs are hard on clothes. Not sure on the women's jeans pockets but I'd expect better of them than you'd get from most anyone else.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday August 28 2018, @05:32PM
I'll second that.
Anecdote about kid's clothes:
Kids outgrow clothing fast. But, they tend to leave those outgrown clothes in conditions that no one wants to use them again. When mine were little, I outfitted them in slightly oversized Carhartt overalls. They wore them for years, literally. They never were torn up. Those overalls are still in the attic, bleached and faded, but otherwise in serviceable condition.
If any of those boys ever mans up, and produces a child, those Carhartts can be put to good use again.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 28 2018, @06:15PM (1 child)
https://www.heavytshirt.com/classic-fit-best-t-shirts-heavyweight-cotton/ [heavytshirt.com] Probably wont help Azuma, but these are the best tees I've ever bought, the only thing I would change is the collar, which isn't a big deal. Otherwise, AC above has it right - make your own. Once you find a pattern you like and adjust it to fit, making a few pairs is a relatively quick process with a good sewing machine (which will run you a few hundred at least, but is well worth it in the long run). I have quite a few pairs of heavy-duty linen shirts and pants that I made myself, and it's really fucking great being able to spend your money on quality materials and a little time cutting and sewing rather than paying out the ass for shit that doesn't fit right and has seams going out in less than a year.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:19AM
> a good sewing machine
Before dropping a few hundred on a sewing machine, check used and the thrift shops. In the last few years I've tried in vain to sell a few good used machines (clearing out estates) and they don't sell (tried on Craigslist for $20 or so) -- so they have gone to Goodwill. If I had space I would have kept them myself, but I already have a nice old metal Brother zig-zag which cost me all of $15...30 years ago. I use it mostly for industrial/heavy sewing, but also do some clothes patching.
Make sure to get a machine that reverses...my grandmother's Singer didn't and it was a real pain to keep turning the work 180 degrees to sew the other way. Also, look for a foot pedal (or knee) speed control. Zig-zag is nice, but hardly a necessity.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:09AM
> As for the rest, try Carhartt.
Or try Bens, while expensive, they will outlast others many times--even the style-agnostic might get bored before they wear out. To prepare for posting on SN, jump into a pair of flameproof pants!
https://bendavis.com/product-category/pants/flame-resistant-pants/ [bendavis.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 28 2018, @05:57PM (2 children)
Men have similar problems. The crotch rips out of every pair of jeans within days (sure there's a joke about them being designed in asia here). There's a bunch of tees and sweats I picked up that I used as rags because a tight cut on the sleeves restricted arm movement and caused the shoulders to rise up. Then there's shopping for properly cut shirts, one's that aren't made for pointy haired businessmen to tuck into their underwear.
I'd say it's a problem with modern clothing and price or brand doesn't seem to make any difference since it's all made in the same factories. If there was any quality, I'd feel guilty about the 8 year olds being paid $1 month to manufacture the stuff :-/
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @07:55PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @11:13PM
Except you are! [oxforddictionaries.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by turgid on Tuesday August 28 2018, @06:07PM (1 child)
Have you considered a Utilikilt [utilikilts.com]? I would have bought one if I hadn't already just bought a new laptop.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 28 2018, @06:25PM
I'm surprised they're still in business.
I remember them being mentioned on TheScreenSavers from TechTV about fifteen years ago.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Tuesday August 28 2018, @07:50PM (3 children)
I was watching Sailor Moon last week. Don't believe I saw any pockets on her outfit. There was one episode where she reached into her top through the collar and pulled out something, don't remember if it was the 銀水晶 or the pendant. I can't imagine where she manages to hide that Moon Stick.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday August 28 2018, @10:59PM (1 child)
The Ginzuishou appears to be part of her body. A variation on it grows through her brooch at the end of season 3 right before she crosses the dimensional gap into whatever hellish world Pharaoh 90 comes from, though it looks more like a red Pure Heart than anything. She also grows a gigantic one out of her bare chest in the last episode when trying to pull Galaxia out of herself (yes, I am spoiling a 20+ year old anime; did you know Aeris dies too?).
There's a lot of references to the old Rabbit on the Moon myth, not least being if you don't know the kanji making up her name it sounds literally like "rabbit of the moon." IIRC some versions of the tale have the Rabbit making an immortality potion, the Hourai Elixir, rather than just pounding mochi, and some versions of the Elixir incorporate the Rabbit's lifeblood.
The key callback to this is that the crystal appears to be either hereditary by "genetics" or passed down through some magical equivalent, *and* it kills the user with overuse. Queen Serenity died using it to reincarnate the people of the old Silver Millennium after Beryl's invasion and Sailor Saturn's subsequent planet-wiping suicide attack, if I remember right.
As to where the various wands come from, I'm going to say it's some kind of hammerspace. You're alluding to some of them looking a bit vibrator-like, but they're way too big for that.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Wednesday August 29 2018, @08:07AM
Luna's password had something to do with pounding mochi on the moon too didn't it? I wasn't aware of the myth, so thanks for that.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:07AM
She hides the Moon stick in a subspace box.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 28 2018, @08:26PM (14 children)
Why do Runaway and The Mighty Buzzard love to reply on your articles?
I think you have some secret admirers!
(Score: 3, Informative) by hendrikboom on Tuesday August 28 2018, @10:34PM (1 child)
I mostly like to read them. Usually Azumi says it all and I have nothing to add.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:18AM
I read it when it had 0 comments, didn't feel I could contribute. I see some good points though. I should try sewing to fix up holes in my clothes. However, basic men's clothes are dirt cheap. Forget $5, you can buy a pack of t-shirts at like $3 each. Then wear them until you have no choice but to turn them into rags.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday August 28 2018, @10:52PM (7 children)
Runaway is an obsessive-compulsive sad sack with the remaining lifespan of a new MacBook who can't stay away from me because I anger him. Uzzard's reasoning is similar minus the shorter lifespan, and he probably is also hoping at some point he can query me in IRC for boob pictures.
Both of them are dealing with internal cognitive dissonance over how much my behavior clashes with how they believe women should act, and they find themselves in a sort of attraction/repulsion trap that makes them unable to stay away OR act normally. IMO these are two men who really need a dominatrix to show them what's what once and for all.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 28 2018, @11:44PM (6 children)
Nah, I can't do the sub thing. There's only so much disbelief a person can be expected to suspend. Me being in any way submissive is several times that amount.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 28 2018, @11:58PM (5 children)
So don't make it a D/s session, make it a fun pain endurance challenge.
What's the matter McFly? Chicken? ;)
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 29 2018, @12:13AM (4 children)
I got over that nonsense back before I even hit twenty years old. Nowadays I'm plenty secure in my self-image, thanks just the same. When you're actually willing to look into the dark nooks and crannies of your own soul, you don't have to believe you're awesome; you know precisely how awesome you are.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @11:39AM (3 children)
I'm curious. What does self-image have to do with a pain endurance challenge?
(Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:10PM (2 children)
I don't feel any need to prove my awesomeness. I lack that particular insecurity, so there's nothing to be gained by me for my participation.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @07:58PM (1 child)
translation: I'm too fat and old so it would probably kill me. I'll hide behind my, uh, manliness? Yeah! Manliness!
You totally sound secure /s
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 29 2018, @09:08PM
You go ahead and keep thinking that if it helps you sleep at night.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 29 2018, @12:04AM (1 child)
Because the topic mildly interests me. See, you seem to think I hold some huge amount of animosity towards her. This would be incorrect. She's annoyed me exactly once since go-live of SN (I forget what over. Something trivial I expect.) and I'm hardly going to declare eternal jihad over that. If you're thinking we take our slap fights personally, you're due some disappointment on my part at least. I enjoy them most days. The ones I don't, I don't reply. In either case, I've completely forgotten about them five seconds after I switch browser tabs.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Funny) by VLM on Thursday August 30 2018, @06:16PM
Same here. Leftists look for an excuse (someone's ideas) to hate the person. Its way more right wing to dislike the idea and not dislike the person at all. Some of the nicest national socialists I know were converts from leftism or libertarianism, since obviously the person remains the same, all that changed was the ideas improved.
Also I like a good sparring partner. The logical and rational justifications for most leftist stuff literally don't exist, so the opposition is pretty weak generally, so I actually appreciate a debating partner with an ... energetic response. Most leftists wilt under the pressure of a billion years of evolution, a millennia or two of the scientific method, logic, reason, requirements of a civilized society, and statistics, so someone who doesn't back down in the face of all that reality makes the debates more interesting. Sorta like how in the 80s "Bad" came to mean "Good", in the late 10s, calling someone a fucking nazi probably meant something negative once upon a time, but now means they're absolutely and completely correct and agree with all observation "dittos" or whatevs.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:48AM (1 child)
This is how new religions are started. Mystically minded fools search for meaning where there is often no meaning. Is your name John Smith? Well, John, this is our neighborhood pub. People come here to socialize. You bashful lot generally sit in the dark corners, and contribute little if anything. Please continue doing so.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @03:01PM
> Mystically minded fools search for meaning where there is often no meaning.
I met Tim Leary on a couple of occasions, in small social settings. He was one of the most sane and intelligent people I've had the pleasure of spending time with, that wonderful combination of a good listener and a good talker. Diametrically opposite your "Mystically minded fool" label.
He had some different ideas on how to start a religion -- http://www.luminist.org/archives/start_your_own.htm [luminist.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 28 2018, @11:49PM (6 children)
It's young women who have the most power. They can flirt as they wish, then deny access.
If you don't want to be a sex object, you have the option to be an eyesore. Live on potato chips and Mountain Dew. After a while, you'll reach a point where men do not see you as a sex object. The more skin you show, the less they think about you in that way.
BTW, women actually do this. They might not admit it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by acid andy on Wednesday August 29 2018, @12:09PM (5 children)
Whilst you're right that sexual attraction can be used to exert power over a man, you're reducing women to little more than sex objects in your post. Provided a man doesn't have serious mental health issues preventing it, he can form a friendship or loving relationship with a woman and then there will be factors other than sexual desire that influence his behavior. If he has empathy for the woman he may actually consider listening to her and modifying his own behavior to meet some of her needs. Shocking, I know! This seem radical but women can actually possess power through social status, employment role, reasoning and even physical strength and agility, just like men. Whodathunkit, huh?
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:17PM (4 children)
Outside relatives, very old people, and children, you're kidding yourself. Sex is always considered at some level if the other person matches the gender you prefer, even if you refuse to consciously acknowledge it.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:54PM (1 child)
We are biological machines. In the examples I gave, like having a friendship with someone of a gender matching your sexual preference, I wasn't implying sexual attraction isn't a factor. My point is it's disingenuous to ignore all the other, non-sexual ways that people communicate, interact and exert or give up power.
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 29 2018, @05:04PM
Fair nuff, clarification agreed to.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday August 30 2018, @06:23PM (1 child)
As a concrete example, OP seems to be asking for womens clothing styles to physically resemble the uniform worn by "Brenda Blue" from "Jay Jay the Jet Plane" which superficially matches all her goals of a zillion pockets and comfy baggy not showing off the goods very utilitarian. Yet, "Brenda Blue" is a total smoking hot MILF, so its just as the Buzzard claims.
Sort of the whole nympho librarian thing going on.
Or "naughty nurse" is yet another genre, surgical scrubs not usually considered "THOT night out on the town hottie wear" but "naughty nurse" is none the less a ridiculously popular meme.
This whole discussion is one of the more interesting stories I've seen on SN recently. OP should have submitted it as a weird story topic. Normally I would not think womens fashion would be a stereotypical SN topic, yet, here we are.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 31 2018, @09:52PM
Sure as hell the usual dysfunctional men with a 5 year old's understanding of the female half of the human race are all over this *rolls eyes* Also, WHY am I not surprised you're still watching Jay Jay the Jetplane? A kid I babysat for right around the turn of the century was obsessed with that show.
You do raise one interesting point though: there is an undercurrent of "wow, that's seriously hot" surrounding women who do serious work. I've noticed a certain kind of man--and a certain kind of woman, my girlfriend being one of them--just *love* the tough and/or competent woman image. Out of necessity I've become that type, though I'm the more femme of the two of us by far. She'd like to be, and has a thing for the androgynous suit-wearing look, but she's five foot nothing and way too adorable to pull it off, LOL.
Since someone brought up Sailor Moon earlier, I'll mention I had the huuuugest girlcrush on Sailor Jupiter at age 9 or so when a friend's sister brought over some pirated Chinese VHS tapes of the series. Jupiter, if you've seen the show, is the one who's 5'7" and a C cup in sophomore year of high school and made her debut by clean-and-jerking a 500+-pound Youma over her head *while incompletely transformed.* She's an interesting study in gender roles and assumptions about women, especially in a country as conservative as late 70s/early 80s Japan (remember, high school sophomore in 1992 means she was born in the late 70s...). She's ridiculously strong, talks a bit like a guy, got booted from her previous school for brawling, studies martial arts...and also loves cooking, baking, and flowers and is doing everything she can to be super-feminine. Eventually she stops worrying about it so much, sometime after she's more or less outright stated to be bisexual partway through season 3...and good grief there is *so* much Jupiter/Mercury subtext in there, I ship them harder than the English navy.
All this gels a bit with the story today about women competing *with one another* via sexy selfies, and my own observation that most of this bullshit fashion game is for the benefit of other women rather than men, with the market being happy to oblige and fan the flames through advertising. Just two more games I refuse to play, but what can ya do?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:08AM (13 children)
Puella Magi Madokami?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:21AM (11 children)
The very same, though I refuse to watch any of that series at all due to already being horribly depressed. If Cutie Honey was the defining magical girl series and Sailor Moon was the genre-shifter, MadoMagi is the soul-destroying psychological horror deconstruction.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:26AM (3 children)
I watched the whole thing at once when I was down with the flu or something. I survived both (somehow).
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @11:57AM (2 children)
Can weebs and people with anime avatars still be safely ignored then :P
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday August 29 2018, @12:23PM (1 child)
Unless their avatar is Kyubey. Then you have to kill them on sight.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:50PM
Or better yet, trick them using their own overly-literal-asshole-genie logic and enslave their entire race. Killing them seems not to work so well...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:51AM (4 children)
My friend says you clearly haven't read Sailor Nothing. That's the best deconstruction. (I haven't read Sailor Nothing either; I'm going to look for it.)
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:53AM
Sailor Nothing is by Stefan Gagne. He is not French.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday August 29 2018, @03:52AM (2 children)
I have heard of it and refuse to touch it for more or less the same reasons I won't give MadoMagi any retina time. Real life is horrifying enough.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Monday September 03 2018, @11:28PM (1 child)
My friend tells me Sailor Nothing is rougher than Madoka, but ends better. Madoka ends well, though it is rough. But I'm not going to argue about taste. De gustibus non est disputandum, as my father used to quote. If aristarchus was here he'd probably find an equivalent quote in classical Greek for us to puzzle over.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @10:55PM
What happened to AC?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 10 2018, @04:49PM (1 child)
Hard as it may be to believe, it has a happy ending. Literally everything works out okay, and in a way that would have been impossible without all the pain that everyone went through. I watched Madoka while depressed and found it cathartic.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 10 2018, @05:00PM
Whoo, big bump!
I'd been following the series by reading about it and...am not sure how far in you've seen :/ Are you only talking about the first series, or including all the later work as well? Because Homura, who instantly set my lesbian detector off, miiiiiiiiiight have ruined the whole thing...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:23AM
Madokami, aka Godoka.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Funny) by Gaaark on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:52AM (8 children)
My problem with clothes is underwear: when a kid, I wore pretty much anything, even going commando.
As you get older things hang lower (right ladies! I know you know): for men, it turns into tea bagging (like INTO the toilet water.
Still with me?
Men's underwear is poorly made, in general. The elastic breaks or loosens and your tea bagging your leg.
I finally solved my problem with 'pouch underwear', like
https://davidarchy.com/collections/mens-underwear/products/quick-dry-ultra-pouch-boxer-briefs-without-fly-3-packs?variant=8700100083748 [davidarchy.com]
BEST. PURCHASE. EVER!
Yeah...I went there.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:20PM (2 children)
♫ Do your balls hang low / do they wobble to and fro / can you tie them in a knot / can you tie them in a bow ♫
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday August 29 2018, @03:20PM (1 child)
Pretty much... YES!
Just you wait. Oh yes.
Just you wait.
The toilet water will claim them...AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO!
Hmmm... that makes me think i should go fishing with them! :)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @08:01PM
You think toilet water is bad? Just wait till you have some very angry sea bass biting yer junk!
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday August 29 2018, @05:11PM (4 children)
And they're making insanely low toilets these days, where there isn't enough room to have decent separation between water level and toilet seat. I have no idea why.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by acid andy on Wednesday August 29 2018, @05:38PM (3 children)
Doesn't that reduce the risk of splashback? As the distance the crap has to fall reduces, the height of the splash reduces faster. I'm not sure of the exact formula. Any fluid dynamics engineers in the house?
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 28 2018, @08:11PM (2 children)
Splashback can be reduced/prevented by putting a piece or two of toilet paper on the water surface. Many people have been doing that for ages .
Here's a video showing how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XNDM4eAn1U [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday September 28 2018, @08:34PM
I knew about that but maybe someone else will benefit from your post. I do think a toilet design that avoided it would save a lot of trees though. The toilet paper fix can also block some poorly engineered sewer pipes pretty easily.
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday September 28 2018, @08:36PM
Forgot to add that toilet design seems to have been apparently one of the most stagnant industries in terms of design innovations and progress in the western world. I think engineers avoid it like scientists avoid Uranus.
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DavePolaschek on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:02PM
My sweetie and I were out shopping for something or other, and were in JoAnn Fabrics, where she discovered a row full of Gildan T-Shirts for $3.99 per. Sizes from newborn-baby up to Men's 4XLT, plus all the women's sizes (though they didn't have women's talls), and nearly a full rainbow of colors.
Michael's craft store is the other place she finds cheap T-shirts. They're also Gildan and some other cheaper brand, rather than the Carhartt's I buy for myself at Fleet Farm, but she's been very happy about that discovery.
Your mileage may vary, and in Madison you'll probably need to go to the suburbs to find the local craft store, but it might just be worth the trip.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Magic Oddball on Friday August 31 2018, @10:06AM
You've covered pretty much everything I've been thinking for the last 20 years or so. Ever notice that shirts that used to be called "unisex" are now labeled "men's"? I have no desire to wear shirts that have tiny capped sleeves that want to crawl into my armpit, cling to everything else and expose part of my chest, any more than I want to wear pants that make me feel like I'm on the verge of giving a free peepshow whenever I try to bend over or crouch.
The one thing I can recommend is buying 'like new' pants online in the same brand & style that has fit you in the past. eBay is where I've been buying mine for the last decade-plus, but IIRC they're also available on Etsy and sometimes other sites. In my book, paying $12-20 for something that fits really well but isn't totally 'trendy' beats the hell out of paying $40-60 for a pair that are trendy but aren't comfortable to wear.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:51PM
Err, yes, that's pretty much how I see it though I am limited to just one piece of candy
(Score: 1) by Arik on Friday October 05 2018, @04:53AM (1 child)
I'm interested to find out why *women*s clothing specifically sucks. Because to be frank, men's clothing sucks pretty bad too.
"First, and biggest problem: they all assume that if you're a given size in one measurement, the rest of you matches up too."
Definitely.
"This couldn't be further from the truth. According to a standard size chart, I have the waist of a 12, the hips of a 14 or 16, and the bust of a 16. This makes finding anything with a proper fit basically impossible. You *have* to go with the larger measurements, which means 1) high-rise and mid-rise jeans are too big around the middle and 2) there is simply no way I can wear a dress or other one-piece clothing item without alterations."
Ahh, dress sizes. Yeah, you're right, you'll have to alter to get off-the-shelf to fit right. Fortunately it's not hard to do, I'd do it for you if you were here :P
I have a similar problem with one-piece sizing, and yes that does come up for men. Environmental protection suits, also exercise clothing, etc. and yeah I couldn't get any of that to fit me properly, plus it's a lot harder to alter.
"Second: why the bloody hell do sizes *differ* from manufacturer to manufacturer?! In some brands I'm a 12 waist, in some a 10, in one a 14 (wtf), and of course everything else varies as well. This varies brand by brand, even if you're shopping in the same store. If you wonder why we take eleventy hojillion items to the dressing room and spend so much time trying stuff on, THIS is why."
I feel your pain. I have shoes ranging from size 10 to 13, from different manufacturers, that fit the same dang feet! Then I get an 11 from a different manufacturer and it's not wearable.
"Third: pockets. Full stop. Yes, this is getting better, but it's hard to find pants that have the number and size pockets mens' pants do. I know, I know, we're supposed to splash out several hundred dollars on some ruinously expensive branded handbag. Screw that. I don't have the money, and even if I did it wouldn't be spent on a handbag. And good grief are they ugly, with their diamond patterns or repeated monograms or whatever. No, my messenger bag does fine for all my carry-stuff-around needs, and you can't fit a laptop in a $400 Gucci handbag. I may be femme but I'm not stupid, or lipstick for that matter."
Again, clothing in general simply doesn't have enough pockets for me so I understand you.
Still, you can't expect to combine a generous assortment of cargo pockets with a sleek, sexy dress. At least, not without some creative thinking.
If I were a girl, I think I'd have a utility-garter belt for formal occasions. Not hard to pack a pistol and 3 spare mags on those (yes, I'm speaking from experience) and of course the pockets for the magazines are just pockets, you can stick other stuff in them.
For day to day, I'd just wear "men's" pants. One of the privileges of being female, you can cross-dress freely and no one cares.
A man who carries around a bag, even a very masculine bag, tends to get put down for it however. Let alone if it actually looks like a purse!
Even the completely masculine kilt will expose the wearer to ridicule and scorn. Unless she's cross-dressing, of course, in which case it's fine, no one cares. Odd that.
"In my opinion, the lack of pockets is something more cynical and sinister than just a ploy to get women to buy handbags: it's a deliberate removal of our agency. And false pockets, the ones that are just sewn-on seams with no actual depth, can DIAF."
I don't even disagree with that, other than the part where you imply this is somehow exclusive to women only.
"Fourth: Quality and price. Mens' clothing seems a lot more substantial and I wear what pieces of it I can for that reason. It's also cheaper, aside from suits and formalwear. I can get a men's size L t-shirt (flaps on me like a tent but the M won't fit my chest...) for something like $5 at Shopko. I have *never* seen a womens' shirt for that price outside a very low-end thrift store, and the equivalents are smaller, thinner, made of less-durable materials, and MORE expensive."
Yes, and this is why most women today cross-dress, at least part of the time. But it's not that simple. The fact that women are free to cross-dress means that there is much less demand for exclusively female functional clothes. Because women overwhelmingly just wear men's clothes whenever it suits them, and there's plenty of men's clothing to fill those roles. It's not perfectly tailored? No, it's not, but as you already pointed out nothing is.
The women's shirts are smaller, thinner, made from less durable materials - but they're more stylish. They're more ornamented, they're more tailored (off the shelf still doesn't fit perfectly but you know very well it comes noticeably closer.) Fabric is relatively cheap, stylish ornamentation is more expensive.
So far as I can see, the only thing fundamentally unfair here is you get to choose whatever you want, while I (effectively) do not.
"Fifth: too much of our clothing is basically candy wrappers. What I mean by this is it exists mostly to imply what's under it, either by showing a lot of skin or, less greasily, indicating by color or pattern that "the person wearing this is demure, defenseless, meek, quiet, and perfectly happy to be basically an object." I really think sometimes that all the pink and floral pattern stuff is some sort of salve to mens' fragile egos, or at the very least a way of firmly separating the two sexes by clothing and letting all concerned know who stands where in the power dynamic."
But this is again just a consequence of the female freedom to cross dress. OF COURSE the "women's" clothing is stereotypically female - because when women want clothing that is NOT, they just walk over to the men's and boy's section and buy what they want for less.
"Now yes, I'm aware 2/3 of the time men are not looking at our clothes specifically."
2/3rds of the time? I'm quaking. No, no, no my dear. I look at women's clothing, specifically, more often than any other straight male I know, and I am looking at it maybe 5% of the time. Unless you're specifically asking me to look at it, or something unusual caught my eye, I'm extremely unlikely to even be able to answer basic questions about what you were wearing a couple minutes after you leave my sight.
"It still pisses me off, and many a time I've been standing in the changing room thinking to myself "Madokami have mercy, WHAT does a girl need to do to get something functional, well-fitting, and decently-priced that *doesn't* tell the world I'm a simpering moron with no aims in life other than to lasso a guy?!""
I'm sorry this has caused you so much trouble. The answer is simple. Walk over to the mens/boys section.
"There's way too much politics surrounding clothing, is what this boils down to."
I couldn't agree more.
"Politics, and something a level or two under it, also. I'm very aware that by not "playing the game" I'm shut out of many social interactions, and for interviews I do the "pretend to be perfectly normal" game with light makeup and the "appropriate" clothes, but what a crock. Do men worry about this stuff?"
Yes, yes we absolutely do. It's less visible to you for several reasons, among them are that we do our best not to think about it, and failing that we do our best not to talk about it.
You know me, I think the unthinkable, I talk about the things you're not supposed to talk about, it's a compulsion, that's what makes me an exception to that rule.
But yes, we do. We have to play the game for interviews too, and I doubt very much it bothers you any more than it bothers I. Refusal to noose yourself every morning has consequences, for example - less so now than when I started doing it, but even today it's certainly a factor. Much like a female, a male is expected (and pretty well required) to dress 'appropriately' for his position. If your position is low, you probably have an ugly, ill-fitting uniform required for work, but you retain the freedom to dress comfortably while at home and sleeping, so that's something. If your position is higher, you're expected to wear immaculately tailored shirts (and those things can cost as much as dresses) which are fitted for noosing, and even to arrange your own noose and make sure it looks pretty every morning.
But I'll grant there's some difference here - with women there does seem to be more of a focus on the clothes themselves - what you put over your body. For men, this is much more a judgement of the body itself, or of how efficiently parts of it have been removed. Symbolic castration is very important, it must be performed religiously every morning, and if you're like me you'll need to do it again midway through your shift if you want to advance. Even if you have a demonstrable medical reason to refrain (I know as I do) you can't refuse this if you want to advance in many areas.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Arik on Friday October 05 2018, @05:06AM
The word 'pink' keeps coming back in my mind, it's in <blink>s and it just won't let me rest until I come back to this.
PLEASE remember that the idea of pink and blue for girls and boys is a 20th century invention. There is nothing inherently feminine, or submissive, about pink. Prior to the 20th century and Madison Avenue it was often considered a strong, vital color, particularly appropriate for boys.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?