SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
from the will-Harvard-be-one-of-them? dept.
CNBC:
There are over 4,000 colleges and universities in the United States, but Harvard Business School professor Clayton Christensen says that half are bound for bankruptcy in the next few decades.
Christensen is known for coining the theory of disruptive innovation in his 1997 book, "The Innovator's Dilemma." Since then, he has applied his theory of disruption to a wide range of industries, including education.
In his recent book, "The Innovative University," Christensen and co-author Henry Eyring analyze the future of traditional universities, and conclude that online education will become a more cost-effective way for students to receive an education, effectively undermining the business models of traditional institutions and running them out of business.
What percentage of their graduates will be bankrupt?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @10:52AM (45 children)
He's most likely wrong. Most people who base predictions solely on their own pet theory tend to be. Especially when that theory doesn't take into account that the people in charge are capable of seeing badness coming and taking steps to avoid it.
That said, it would be one of the best things to happen to higher education in the States in the past hundred years if he were right. College campuses are one of the best example of echo chambers in the States today. They produce and reinforce views as far outside mainstream American thinking as closed militia compounds or cults do.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @11:26AM (3 children)
students in deep debt, costs rising far in excess of the 'net learning', growth in admin staff .. these are all real factors. why do you think he's wrong? do you have evidence that more than a few schools have done intelligent work to counter the trends, or that they can?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @11:42AM (2 children)
Oh they absolutely can. They are in fact the only ones who can. It just remains to be seen if they will choose existence over keeping the same business practices.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:00PM
alright man, thanks
(Score: 3, Insightful) by AssCork on Wednesday September 05 2018, @06:39PM
/me glares at RIAA & MPAA.
Just popped-out of a tight spot. Came out mostly clean, too.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:07PM (21 children)
"mainstream American thinking" - ha! I don't know if you realize there's no such a thing, the mainstream American DOES NOT THINK. he just reacts
He's dreaming he's an exceptional billionaire albeit temporary embarrassed, believes that hard work is all that's needed to succeed, waste a big amount of neuron-time being outraged by what Rep/Dem/others do or speak and all the remaining time watching 'ctelectual super-heroes movies.
Some of them even waste time posting on S/N (instead of, e.g., going fishing)
Do you really believe those are signs of the superior neurological activity usually denoted as "thinking"?
(large grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:22PM (10 children)
You're absolutely correct. You should fish more.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:31PM (9 children)
End of winter. Not the best season for fishing in Melbourne. Commenting on S/N will have to do for now. (grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:56PM (8 children)
Fish still bite in the winter (just a bit slower) and you don't have to worry about it getting too hot to even breathe. Mind you, you may need a boat to get to the deeper waters where they hang out when it's cold.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday September 05 2018, @03:44PM (7 children)
Nice try, TMB. Melbourne has an unpleasant weather at its best.
Winter time, the wind is most likely killing you. Literally, if in a boat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @04:27PM (6 children)
Nope, if them crazy-ass yankees can cut holes in foot thick ice to fish, you can put warmer clothes on.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Wednesday September 05 2018, @10:47PM (5 children)
that TMB? Mainstream yankee! (grin)
Mate, in Melbourne you're not gonna see frozen waterways.
The wind will literally kill you by the swells it creates on water. Occasionally, news here announce 1-2 Darwin award winners after the dingy they were in capsized or was pushed some tens of km offshore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 06 2018, @12:23AM (4 children)
Right. I forget you lot don't really have any water to speak of that comes without waves.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:21AM (3 children)
Technically, you can have it: just fill the bathtub (and, to avoid swells, make sure yo mamma stays away from it). Granted, no fish will bite under these circumstances, but you can still experience the 'wait for the bite' feeling.
To my taste, tho', posting shit on S/N is a more rewarding experience than fishing in the bathtub - I get infinitely more bites here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:49AM (2 children)
Wait, you can't drive under two hours to Emerald Lake or Lake Corangamite? Or, you know, fish in the Yarra or one of the two bays you have handy? I don't think you're trying very hard.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday September 06 2018, @02:42AM (1 child)
Lake Corangamite is about 1 hour drive from where I live. Except it's a hypersaline endorheic lake [wikipedia.org] - the mud there literally reeks and the fish .. wikipedia say there should be some but I doubt it.
For the Emerald Lake (actually Lake Treganowan - the other one is a water reservoir - deep, former tree trunks still standing on the bottom after flooding the valey) - I guess I could.
But it's about 4 hours drive from where I live, need to cross the city to get to the other side.
Unless I plan to spend the night somewhere there, it becomes a 8 hours driving experience. Winter time, that's the entire daylight time you have during the day.
There are places that offers organized recreational fishing in ponds they populated with trout (small fish-farming operations), but... naah... can't say I enjoy fishing enough to do it winter time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 06 2018, @11:26AM
Man, I hate me some cold too but there's a lot to be said for either having the morning entirely to yourself or having the company of a very few other crazy bastards who likely have some quite interesting lies to tell. Bundle up good enough and take plenty of coffee and it's quite pleasant and relaxing. Actually catching anything is just kind of a bonus.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:33PM (8 children)
relevant XKCD [xkcd.com]
Why are you limiting it to Americans? Lots of people from other countries are fairly mindless a lot of the time. Heck, you might be one of them: A lot of people have no original thoughts prior to getting to work, for instance.
About the only aspect that might be uniquely American is the relatively large religion industry that carries a strong anti-intellectual streak and thus actively wants its people to avoid thinking.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday September 05 2018, @03:47PM
Am I? I just pointed the contradiction in terms in the given context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:21PM (1 child)
Allow me to introduce you to the entire middle east.
The barely still functioning religion "industry" in the US pales in comparison to the power of the religious zealots in other parts of the world.
I'm going to assume that you're a Democrat and you actually think that religion still has some sort of power, and that this somehow explains everything about the Republicans.
No.
Just like the labor movement is essentially dead on the left, the religious are also pretty much finished as well, or will be in 30 years or so.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by i286NiNJA on Wednesday September 05 2018, @06:14PM
Seems to me they managed to elect Bush jr twice not too long ago plus they have one of their own as vice president.
We may even see a right wing religious nutball in the whitehouse before long. Then we'll see them lose their embarrassment and return to the spotlight. Especially as the left gets tired of it's own moral authoritarianism.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jmorris on Wednesday September 05 2018, @06:39PM (4 children)
Open your mind and see the full horror. The modern American (and now Western) university IS a religious institution. They are in fact functioning mostly as religious seminaries. And they are violently anti-intellectual because Cultural Marxism is not a religion capable of withstanding any reflection or criticism. Critical Theory is designed only to destroy, not create.
The older Christian Western Civilization it has now replaced was capable of sustaining The Enlightenment, Progressivism can't sustain a debate on bathrooms without resorting to violence to end the debate.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Wednesday September 05 2018, @08:37PM (3 children)
Have you attended university recently, out of curiosity? Because while your description perfectly matches right-wing characterizations of what universities are like, that doesn't match my experience of attending one, nor my experience working for a different one. Oh, and my alma mater is sometimes cited as the ur example of a misguided liberal institution controlled by anti-intellectual cultural marxists or what have you.
For what it's worth, my alma mater, which again is often the target of this kind of criticism:
- Had active fairly conservative student organizations like Young Republicans and an evangelical Christian group who ran Sunday morning services. These groups had significant membership.
- Had avowed conservatives on the faculty.
- Regularly had satires of liberalism published in the student papers. For example, a buddy of mine wrote a comic strip for a while called "My So-Called Left" that was specifically poking at the campus socialist groups.
- Also had regular satires of liberalism just pop up randomly on campus. For instance, one group advertised a talk on "The Revolutionary Ideas of Karl Marx". The next day, another set of posters popped up looking almost identical but advertising a talk on "The Revolutionary Ideas of Ronald Reagan".
- The economics course I took taught Mankiw, Friedman, and Keynes, not Marx or Stiglitz or Galbraith. I realize that you probably find those guys still too liberal, because they aren't von Mises, Hayek, or Fama, but it's still a long way from Marxism.
- The English course I took taught, among other mostly-long-dead authors, Heinlein.
- As far as sustained debates on bathrooms, lots of bathrooms were co-ed, because nobody cared enough to do sex-segregated bathrooms. The actual raging debate at the time had to do with trying to force the school into allowing co-ed dorm rooms for people who wanted to do that.
- Was regularly visited by avowed conservatives like Arthur Laffer. They were able to speak without incident beyond some questions they couldn't answer very well. The speaker that got the harshest reception was part of the Clinton administration.
- I never once observed a faculty member attempt to suppress conservative ideas if they were well-supported and well-argued and relevant.
- We were reasonably well-behaved towards protesters, including a conservative preacher telling us we were all fornicators doomed to hell, and a visit by the Westboro Baptist Church.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday September 05 2018, @09:26PM
I'm not sure why you would bother.
jmorris has a fixed and very limited view of the world, as his right-wing talking point comments show.
He uses terms like "Cultural Marxism" and is trying to pretend that Christianity was a supporter of the Enlightenment, instead of the oppressors they really were.
He also wrote:
as if it isn't the weirdo right-wing Christians in some parts of the US that are obsessed by which bathrooms people use.
At least you provided some context and a few real world examples to back your point up, so thanks.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday September 05 2018, @09:34PM
UCB?
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday September 06 2018, @03:12AM
Can't offhand find the article I wanted (by Jonathan Haidt, IIRC) but this one skims over the same topic:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/1/liberal-majority-on-campus-yes-were-biased/ [washingtontimes.com]
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 3, Touché) by DannyB on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:39PM
There is. It is whatever the TV tells you to think.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:02PM (3 children)
Definition of a bubble is the participants don't do the above. See real estate, dotcoms, peak oil related issues, higher ed bubble, etc.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:08PM
Don't != can't though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:43PM (1 child)
The deficit.
Climate change.
Windows Server 2019
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 4, Funny) by AssCork on Wednesday September 05 2018, @06:48PM
Oh c'mon, it's not even. . .
. . . okay, it's worse than we thought.
Just popped-out of a tight spot. Came out mostly clean, too.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:50PM (4 children)
Holy crap, you Fox News types really eat that shit up, don't you? Talk about living in a bubble! So what do "mainstream Americans" think? Apparently what Fox News tells them to think, even if it means completely flip-flopping on what were supposed to be basic, core principles like free trade, the evils of tariffs, welfare (to farmers), and Executive Overreach. Remember those very quaint ideas? How do you justify complete and fundamental flip-flopping on these so-called basic and fundamental principles over the course of about two years? Starting trade wars, especially with our best and biggest friends and allies, was always far outside mainstream American thinking.
Sounds to me like we need these Evil Leftwing institutions more than ever to counteract the far outside teachings of Fox News.
(Score: 3, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:11PM (2 children)
You realize you're talking to a guy who disconnected the rabbit ears that were his only source of live television programming from his TV this year due to not having used them in over two years, yes?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @06:51PM (1 child)
ok i believe you
you do not need fox news to be the way you are. there are a lot of people that are not genuine, though, and we're lucky to have you here because you're the real thing.
it is very bad when we meet people that aren't sure what their views are because they haven't watched tv lately.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @09:03PM
Yup. I can agree on that regardless of which talking heads they let do their thinking for them.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @04:45PM
Sad that you do not understand this. Let me tell you why the people you insult do not in fact think what the Fox News tells them. I have been separated form my native land for a quarter century. But if you asked me a political question, something hypothetical or from current events, I can easily tell you what the general consensus among my old countrymen would be about this topic. It doesn't mean I watched some obscure news channel and gobbled up nonsense, it just means I am in-tuned to how they view the world having had grown up in their culture, and being part of it.
See having mainstream views is not fucking unique to America. I could ask a Chinese ex-pat living in the US for over a decade what the Chinese would think about some topic, and they would likely give me a very accurate answer.
The thing you should really consider is why you are so out of tune with your countrymen. What kind of nonsense polluted your head?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Weasley on Wednesday September 05 2018, @04:53PM (6 children)
Young intellectuals always have radically different ideas from their parents. They hardly need college campuses to breed or propagate radical new ideas. frankly, the Right has become far more radical in the last couple of years without the aid of a college campus than the Left has done since the 60's. The Republican party is being lead completely off the rails by an incompetent man-baby, congress seems unwilling to check him, his own cabinet thinks he's mad and gets fired or quits regularly, and the worst constituents are infecting the moderate constituents with "militia" and "cult" thinking.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:38PM (4 children)
I think you have a skewed notion of what is and what is not radical as well as a skewed idea of what the right believes on average. What you're seeing is not the right being radical but the right being pissed off that their politicians refuse to represent the will of their constituents. The label "radical" necessitates agitating for societal or economic change rather than simply a change of how they are being represented. It might help if you stopped listening solely to talking heads and people on the left; talking to average people on the right is always going to give you the most accurate picture of average people on the right.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Weasley on Wednesday September 05 2018, @06:29PM (3 children)
I consider disassembling military alliances that have existed for decades to be radical. I consider shitting on all of our allies to be radical. I consider sucking up to Russia to be radical...and criminal. And what the fuck is with Alex Jones becoming mainstream? The man is radical even by radical standards. Trump absolutely is a radical.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @09:08PM (2 children)
Getting along with Russia is called diplomacy. Weren't you talking shit just as far back as 2016 about wanting America to get along with the rest of the world? You know Western Europe doesn't constitute "the rest of the world", yeah? What was your position on allowing Russia to go in and take Crimea? Stop them by force or talk to them?
Which is all to say: you're full of shit and would say the exact opposite if it were your team in office doing the exact same things.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Weasley on Wednesday September 05 2018, @09:58PM (1 child)
Punishing Russia over the shit they've pulled over the last decade or so is also diplomacy. From their corrupt business practices, to their invasion of Ukraine and Georgia, to their human rights violations, to the assassinations of enemies of the oligarchs... Russia is run by criminals. And Trump is delivering to the Russians everything they want. I'm amazed you actually think this is partisan issue.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 06 2018, @12:27AM
I think it's a partisan issue because what goes on in Russia is none of my concern but the left, who generally want nothing to do with international confrontation of any kind, suddenly become hawks on Russia. Wait, have I mistaken you? Are you one of those GW fanbois who think we should go around the world making them all act like us?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:52PM
Well isn't that what the Narrative always wants one side to believe about the other? It was not that long ago that conservatives were sure, absolutely convinced, that Obama was a Manchurian candidate, secret Muslim homosexual communist trained from birth to destroy America. Sounds pretty extreme, doesn't it? Hear any echoes of that radical Othering in what you just wrote? At all?
As for chaos and high turnover in the Whitehouse, that is universally true of every administration, period, because it is a hothouse environment. Think junior high school popularity contest on crack, interlaced with PCP and given a n unlimited expense account by absentee parents. Hijinks always ensue. The ones out of power always *gasp* about the turmoil and excess like they've never heard of such a thing and can't imagine how nobody's in charge over there and, sob, how very, very worried they are about the country and the message it sends to our young people... in short, it's a passive-aggressive move that whiny bitches pull.
So put down the pipe, turn off the 24/7 MSM smear-fest, and go for a walk outside. Interact with fellow citizens in the supermarket, in the library, in the workplace. Decide for yourself what you really see. Are people happy to be working and able to pay their bills for the first time in a long time? Are they hopeful about the future for their kids? Those are the real measures of the real state of things.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:49PM (1 child)
Awww, poor buzzy triggered by academia, awwww.
I am fine with a lot of colleges going broke, but echo chambers? Put down the red hat bud.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @06:00PM
Visit one. Then visit a feed store.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday September 06 2018, @02:36AM
When I saw where some major university had hired close to 100 "diversity officers" (at high-5/low-6 figure salaries!) .... well, that's when I knew the whole system had succumbed to Pournelle's Iron Law.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by pinchy on Wednesday September 05 2018, @11:10AM (30 children)
I read that some of these campuses where the leftists have run amok in the news have lost huge enrollment numbers.
Apparently its impacting their bottom line. IIRC Jonathan Haidt predicted that would be a correcting force for far leftist campuses.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @11:23AM (3 children)
reading did not seem to trigger thought in you.
nothing has a single cause and authorities just want to eat you.
ponder that :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:34PM (2 children)
Well, nothing will, why do you think reading is so special?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:08PM (1 child)
reading encourages both of your brain's hemispheres to have multichannel conversations across your corpus callossum(sp?) usually leading to something individuated happening in your frontal cortex we refer to as thinking. you can also produce the effect by working out how to talk to your voice-recording phone without repeating yourself. if you do this until you have nothing more floating around in your brain.. from 20..90mins should do it, with practice anyhow, you'll see that you have in fact produced some actual thought, restructured your brain and cleaned out an inner stack of stuff that would otherwise hobble your perceptions going forward. -- if you debrief yourself like this on everything, your learning/thinking/processing speed/memory-recall and capacity for directed visual thinking will go through the roof.
so much for 'nothing triggers thought.' hah.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @03:34PM
Could you cite this? I would like to learn more if it isn't bullshit.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by canopic jug on Wednesday September 05 2018, @11:45AM (16 children)
Some universities also have a lot of dead wood. That is to say they have loads of staff and executives that have nothing to do with either teaching or research or direct support of either. "Diversity" executives pull in 6-figure salaries and herd a triple-digit sized team all the while libraries wither, labs go uncleaned, and senior faculty members are forced to act as amateur secretaries instead of using their hours in their domain of expertise. Or rather than operating a high-speed, low-drag ICT infrastructure, there are Microsoft and Oracle resellers running amok and setting the agenda and the budgets, starving teaching or research of resources.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Kell on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:53PM (14 children)
Diversity executives, eh? So, you don't actually work at a university then, I take it?
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:02PM (13 children)
Damn those pesky contradictory facts!
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Kell on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:28PM (12 children)
Officer != executive. That's like saying a sergeant is the same as a general. I challenge you to find me even a dozen of those 2000 odd jobs that will be bringing in "six figures". So much for your "pesky contradictory facts"!
The university senior executive level* is so far removed from anything those people would be doing that it's a major coup if any of them even show up to an event. I should know, I'm part of our diversity network . At our university, all but one of the senior exec is white male, and only two or three out of a dozen deans are female. It's been recognised as a major issue both here and elsewhere in Australia.
*Not that our university's have "executives" so much as provosts, deans, chancellors and the like.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @03:14PM (6 children)
https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/UMnew.png [aei.org]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @04:33PM (1 child)
Muchos grassy ass, me amoeba. I was out paying bills, visiting contractors, and picking up tools for remodeling the place TR just purchased and in no position to respond.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @07:20PM
de nalgas
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @10:45PM
That list is mostly female. Must be a side channel way of evening up the university’s diversity employment.
(Score: 2) by Kell on Wednesday September 05 2018, @11:26PM (2 children)
Interesting! I'll happily concede that my expectations were different from this! Thank you for the additional information. The hiring geography in the US must be different to Australia - In contrast, here diversity officers would be lucked to pull a median wage of $60k.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 06 2018, @12:28AM (1 child)
Our higher ed administrative staff are both grossly inflated in numbers and grossly overpaid at the moment, yup.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Reziac on Thursday September 06 2018, @02:43AM
Meanwhile, my sister (who is a high-end STEM professional) gripes that she can no longer find qualified graduates in her field, and that apparently some basic functions are no longer being taught at all. She leads an annual raiding party on her alma mater (which is rather less converged than the norm), and still comes up short.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday September 07 2018, @12:15PM (4 children)
Officer: a person who has an important position in a company, organization, or government
The people he's talking about, which may have "Officer" in their job title, do indeed have administrative authority, often supervisory too, and therefore are executives as the word is used in the English language.
I've known 25-year-olds to have "Senior" in their job-title. Job titles are meaningless, if you are getting hung up over them, then you're looking at the wrong things.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by Kell on Saturday September 08 2018, @10:26AM (3 children)
That is not the case in academia (at least where I live), where titles are very specifically controlled by the organisation. To the point that being an associate professor vs as senior lecturer entitles you to 3 m^2 more office space (seriously! 13 m^2 vs 16 m^2).
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday September 09 2018, @03:27AM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by Kell on Sunday September 09 2018, @09:12AM
Nope - they cram in as many full-fee paying internationals as possible (packed dense) to maximise profit on their already overstressed faculty.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday September 10 2018, @03:17AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:43PM
What is definitely true is that the big explosion in spending by universities isn't on anything involving education, but on administration. Some of that is BS like creating pointless bureaucratic positions, like you mentioned, but a lot more of it is trying to build a detailed management infrastructure to really put the screws on all those friggin' professors who think they're so smart they should be running the place.
One of the many pieces of putting the screws on the faculty is the decades-long process of replacing tenured and tenure-track professors with adjunct instructors who are paid peanuts and can be removed and replaced at any time for any reason. And that in turn requires making the jobs of tenured/tenure-track professors as unpleasant as possible, so that they'll retire or move to other institutions.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by VLM on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:08PM
Dying industries always go hard left; can debate the exact cause/effect relationship later. However if its a far left industry or a dying industry the correlation is always high. Newspapers, legacy TV news, legacy media, NFL, higher ed... If its dying its probably left wing, if its left wing its probably dying, on a civilization wide basis.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Taibhsear on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:58PM (7 children)
Yes, and it has nothing to do with Republican politicians cutting funding for said schools and trying to bust unions and fucking the economy so no one can afford to go to school without going into un-bankruptable dept because of rising tuition because of said budget cuts or anything... /sarc
(Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @04:38PM (6 children)
Higher ed schools should never have been govt funded to begin with. If they can't make ends meet off of the absurd amounts they charge, they are astoundingly poorly managed.
Also, anyone taking out a student loan for a degree that isn't nearly certain to make every bit of it back for them in five years is a colossal fucking moron.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @04:56PM (1 child)
They're not morons. They Learned How to Learn, after all. It just so happens that they need someone else's help whenever they need to learn anything else.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:43PM
They also learned how to acquire massive debt that's immune to bankruptcy at a time when they have essentially no income. This is an extremely valuable lesson if we want to keep a thriving student loan industry in the nation.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Taibhsear on Wednesday September 05 2018, @06:43PM (1 child)
Farmers should never have been govt funded to begin with. If they can't make ends meet off of the absurd amounts they charge, they are astoundingly poorly managed.
Also, anyone taking out a loan for farming equipment that isn't nearly certain to make every bit of it back for them in five years is a colossal fucking moron.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @09:10PM
Yeah, I'm okay with that.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday September 07 2018, @12:19PM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 07 2018, @07:22PM
Over here our higher ed industry by and large practices systematic indoctrination. You know, mandatory classes wherein you must be able to parrot back and argue effectively from the position of slightly dated radical propaganda or fail? Systemic suppression of thought and speech that run afoul of up to the minute radical propaganda? You're better off teaching yourself most subjects from readily available materials than going to college today. You'll certainly have a better financial position when you're finished.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @11:20AM
sqrt(colleges) will survive.
students-sqrt(students) will go under.
more or less.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @11:30AM (2 children)
Who needs a degree when you have SO?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @03:26PM
If the quality of online message board thinkers are indicative of SO, I would say The World.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @10:38AM
Who needs a Usenet 'Me Too!' cascade when you have SO?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fadrian on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:06PM (8 children)
I think Christensen is wrong. In fact, most colleges and universities have the majority of their 100 and 200 level courses online for their students already. To think that mainstream schools can't make the shift to online offerings quickly is ludicrous.
The bottom line is that schools are recognized for (a) the quality of their instructors and their materials, (b) selectivity WRT student body, and (c) pedigree. Having online courses won't change any of that. See Arizona State whose online program is as big or bigger than their campus program for a quick example of a successful transition.
Plus Christensen doesn't explain how one removes that slight whiff of University of Phoenix/DeVry/Other Crap U. stench from the whole online school thing. Employers look at virtual schools with a jaundiced eye because their ranks are neither well-curated nor -evaluated. Gresham's law and all that. I'd think that "big name" schools entering this arena would remove some of this, but it will be a generational shift, not a technological-speed transformation - we've had the technology to offer courses online for at least five years - I don't see the big-ed institutions shutting down any time soon. I'm pretty sure you'll see HarvardOnline (still with better instructors than say LakeForestCollefgeOnline) well before Harvard closes.
That is all.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:21PM (3 children)
Most universities have already diluted the quality of their instruction by allowing graduate students teach undergrads instead of making professors do it. As a result, you have foreign grad students who don't speak English transcribing notes onto a chalkboard, unable to field questions or do anything else useful or passable as teaching.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:55PM
Not their fault at all.
Proof: would the other students speak mandarin fluently, the grad student will show high teaching proficiency.
Ergo: the blame stays with the University, why does it accept barbaric students and impose teaching in such a mess of a language as English?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by opinionated_science on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:00PM
Graduate teaching is common practice in the "Oxbridge" system. The difference with the US system is that the graduate student has to *write* the class, following tuition a few years before.
Hence, although the students are treated as cheap labour, they at least get some practice with the technical material, and "Prof" time can be best served.
For this to work, you need an entirely self-motivated student body capable of managing such work- something that is harder to ensure...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @04:39PM
They've also diluted the quality of their institutions due to the 'Everybody has to go to college!' fad. That is driven largely by employers who are too lazy and greedy to properly interview candidates, so they require degrees for jobs that should never need them to cut down on their own workloads. The result of the indoctrination that everyone should go to college is that too many people who don't actually care about education attend colleges and universities, and then those institutions lower their standards in order to make money from these losers.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:00PM (3 children)
I graduated like 15 years ago from a local private college almost entirely online. We had the tech since the late 90s, at worst. Earlier if you bend the definitions.
The marketplace is already discriminating between profitable scam schools and real schools that happen to have online programs. The common language hasn't caught up yet calling both "online degrees" or "virtual schools".
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:54PM
Well shit, it made me feel better thinking you are just an old dinosaur. Guess you really are the alt-right poster child around here. Boooo, get with the times. Modern times i mean, the 50s are over.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:29AM (1 child)
Have to agree with you there.
I took a course entirely online in 1997. Well, there were physical lectures, but all the notes and assignments, etc. were available online and all assignments were intended to be turned in online. I never attended class, and the only time I showed up for anything physically was for the final exam.
So yeah, the option of doing this has been around a long time -- people just didn't do it as often. And long, long before that, there were correspondence courses by mail etc., which basically did something similar in a different medium.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday September 06 2018, @11:55AM
Heh, I just thought of something, taking CLEP tests for 100-level classes in 1993. Not all schools accept those for credits, but its nice when they do.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by epitaxial on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:45PM (4 children)
Liberal institutions are running out of other peoples' money. Just jack up tuition rates to compensate.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:04PM (1 child)
Would not disagree, with a side dish of the government student loan program went into hyperdrive around '08 to collapse unemployment rates; you grade politicians on low unemployment rates, you get low unemployment rates regardless of side effects. So a trillion dollar transfer of wealth from tax payers to higher ed is ongoing.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday September 05 2018, @03:13PM
With most of that trillion $ going to administrative costs rather than actual education. I'm glad my son (who just started college) is well aware of the costs, and chose his college appropriately.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 5, Touché) by Taibhsear on Wednesday September 05 2018, @03:05PM (1 child)
Unlike conservative institutions that never need to take other peoples' money...
*COUGH*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_endowment [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @07:04PM
I was going to comment earlier about that...
Anyway when I was a kid, it was the republican/conservatives that wanted higher education. To create a generation of leaders and intellects that show an ambition.
Now, it seems that because there are technical people that are liberal and run huge companies on the west coast, all higher education is bad because you don't need a degree to stay locked into a blue collar job.
I don't seen any of those guys in congress opting to send their kids into a hazardous job instead of college and calling it good that their kid was shielded from liberal elites.
No, that doesn't happen. They go to rich schools for rich people.
Attacking what the middle class views higher education is just a means to try to keep the uneducated blue collars down and eliminating one of those rungs on the ladder we all say helps promote social mobility.
which doesn't make america great again if it means the wrong people move up the ladder. Better to just do away with all of that ladder and keep the people at the bottom. we can give them hope to rise up if they work hard and pull themselves up by their bootstraps--maybe even have a few stories about a ceo that started in the mail room or burger grill. that always helps to convince people that ignorance=intelligence and low paying job=success. Just ask that pappa johns guy. well before he was fired anyway.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by EEMac on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:00PM (2 children)
"online education will become a more cost-effective way for students to receive an education, effectively undermining the business models of traditional institutions"
I've earned degrees both at traditional institutions and online. They are completely different environments, and not everybody is suited to online learning.
The current trend is to include on-line components in face-to-face classes; my students really seem to like that.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @04:50PM (1 child)
In fact, not everyone is suited to learning at all, like those Computer Science graduates who can't even write a FizzBuzz program. Yet, they were allowed to graduate for some reason. That says a lot about the standards of these institutions.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:51PM
Why does a CompSci need to be able to write FizzBuzz? Can't they have an assistant? The president graduated from a prestigious institution of higher learning. The ability to read, write, speak in complete sentences or express a coherent thought is clearly not an important skill.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:41PM
For an example, consider trying to predict the next pixel value in an 8 bit black and white image (pixel values range from 0 to 255), given previous values of 192 and 64. A simple straight line extrapolation will give a value of -64. It shouldn't take long to realize that's out of bounds. The next thing the brainless extrapolater generally does is a crude cap, puking out a prediction of 0. Slightly less brainless extrapolaters will reach for a curve, grab another previous value and fit a parabola to it. That can easily make an even worse prediction. If that value should be, say, 64, making the previous values 64, 192, 64, then this simple extrapolation might give -16384.
This prediction of bankruptcy for half of American colleges feels like an extrapolation of that sort. Yes, undoubtedly some schools will go down in flames. But I think this prediction underestimates the resourcefulness of people. After a few schools close their doors, the other shaky ones will see their own ghosts and discover the will to make radical changes.
Oh, and as for this being a prediction? This particular disruption has been going on for over 20 years. You know, a little thing called the Internet.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by BsAtHome on Wednesday September 05 2018, @03:13PM (15 children)
This is the primary problem. Education is not a business. At least, it should not be. Education is a societal premise for having the society we (like to) have. Commercializing education is a sure way to make the division in our society even more pronounced than already the case. In an egalitarian view on society, educational institutions are not supposed to be commercial business; they serve the commons.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @04:46PM (1 child)
Well, all these people going into higher schooling just so they can party, get that 'piece of paper', and later find a high-paying job don't care about education anyway, so this sounds great for them.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:53PM
I would hope that they don't last more than about one semester.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:50PM (2 children)
Do please specify that you mean "economic egalitarianism" in the future as it directly contradicts actual egalitarianism which advocates economic equality of opportunity rather than outcome.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by BsAtHome on Wednesday September 05 2018, @09:09PM (1 child)
It is about an egalitarian view on society. Think of it as in the French motto: Liberté, égalité, fraternité.
However, you might need to get an education before you can correctly interpret the concepts behind the French motto. But then you'd need deep pockets to pay for that education. I'd prefer the commons to pay for the privilege of understanding by means of education.
(Score: 3, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 05 2018, @09:14PM
Again, that is economic egalitarianism not egalitarianism. You would know this if you sourced knowledge from multiple places rather than only from professors who lean to the extreme left.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:55PM (9 children)
I've heard people complain about paying property taxes for public education. "I don't have a kid!" they say.
The best answer I have heard is:
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
(Oh, I guess that experiment is currently in progress.)
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @07:03PM (6 children)
If I get ignorance either way, why would I want to continue throwing money into the fire?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday September 05 2018, @08:42PM (5 children)
I'll give you a Touché.
I think the reason we are getting ignorance is due to insufficient resources invested in educating our society.
But it's all good as long as certain people can loot the public treasury.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Reziac on Thursday September 06 2018, @02:58AM (4 children)
America already leads the world in resources spent per educated head:
https://rossieronline.usc.edu/blog/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/ [usc.edu]
Note the dramatic disconnect between spending and results.
See also:
https://education.cu-portland.edu/blog/news/10-year-spending-trends-in-u-s-education/ [cu-portland.edu]
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday September 06 2018, @01:02PM (3 children)
Yet many schools seem very constrained for resources and money. Interesting.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday September 06 2018, @02:52PM (1 child)
Unions and bloated administrations suck up some of the money (seriously, why does any university need over 100 "diversity and inclusion" personnel?); a lot of the rest is wasted. Even so, there's no correlation between amount spent per head and results. Among the various states, there's actually a pretty good inverse relationship. Frex, my state has always been down in the lower third for spending, yet is consistently in the top three for results.Some of that is being a high-IQ state, but a lot more is being slow to turn loose of traditional methods.
Spending budget on high tech has not helped either. My evaluation of gradeschool-level 'educational software' is that it teaches how to make the program spit up the desired result, but doesn't actually teach the subject. Throwing laptops at each kid certainly hasn't improved the actual level of education (in fact, the only real studies I've seen on that have concluded the more high tech, the less real education).
We were a lot better-educated when it was fannies in seats (the number per teacher doesn't matter, but classes used to average 30-35 in K-12 and up to hundreds at university), eyes front (disruptors were actively punished, not allowed to run amok as they do today), and one teacher with chalk and a blackboard, and a lot of fairly deep rote learning (much ballyhooed today, but works best for most kids) but very little if any homework (kids process what they learn during idle downtime, not by doing makework) -- all of which can be achieved on a shoestring budget. I hie from that era; I've seen the difference firsthand. Throw a ca.1900 4th-grade primer at today's average highschooler, and most won't even manage to muddle through it.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday September 06 2018, @04:04PM
<sarcasm>
</sarcasm>
I think Microsoft, Apple and Google would disagree that it has helped them.
Stronger teachers are needed who can throw the laptops with much greater force. Hiring them requires more money.
Amen to that! But the diversity and inclusion specialists say that we cannot suppress the creativity of any students who are merely trying to express themselves.
And, homework is so 20th century. Both homework and after school jobs detract from brain engagement activities such as video games and social media. Just ask the diversity experts.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 06 2018, @03:43PM
It's about what the schools are spending money on. Increasingly, money is being spent on positions that don't directly help students. One of the reasons that charter schools outperform public schools (at least in some places like Boston, MA) is that they run very lean administrations and have more people in the classroom interacting with students.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @10:29PM (1 child)
My answer is, "Where is your next doctor going to come from?"
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday September 06 2018, @03:01AM
India, Pakistan, Kenya, Nigeria...
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.