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posted by martyb on Friday September 14 2018, @09:55AM   Printer-friendly
from the now-searching-for-a-job dept.

Senior Google Scientist Resigns Over "Forfeiture of Our Values" in China

A senior Google research scientist has quit the company in protest over its plan to launch a censored version of its search engine in China.

Jack Poulson worked for Google's research and machine intelligence department, where he was focused on improving the accuracy of the company's search systems. In early August, Poulson raised concerns with his managers at Google after The Intercept revealed that the internet giant was secretly developing a Chinese search app for Android devices. The search system, code-named Dragonfly, was designed to remove content that China's authoritarian government views as sensitive, such as information about political dissidents, free speech, democracy, human rights, and peaceful protest.

After entering into discussions with his bosses, Poulson decided in mid-August that he could no longer work for Google. He tendered his resignation and his last day at the company was August 31.

He told The Intercept in an interview that he believes he is one of about five of the company's employees to resign over Dragonfly. He felt it was his "ethical responsibility to resign in protest of the forfeiture of our public human rights commitments," he said.

Poulson, who was previously an assistant professor at Stanford University's department of mathematics, said he believed that the China plan had violated Google's artificial intelligence principles, which state that the company will not design or deploy technologies "whose purpose contravenes widely accepted principles of international law and human rights."

He said that he was concerned not just about the censorship itself, but also the ramifications of hosting customer data on the Chinese mainland, where it would be accessible to Chinese security agencies that are well-known for targeting political activists and journalists.

In his resignation letter, Poulson told his bosses: "Due to my conviction that dissent is fundamental to functioning democracies, I am forced to resign in order to avoid contributing to, or profiting from, the erosion of protection for dissidents."

"I view our intent to capitulate to censorship and surveillance demands in exchange for access to the Chinese market as a forfeiture of our values and governmental negotiating position across the globe," he wrote, adding: "There is an all-too-real possibility that other nations will attempt to leverage our actions in China in order to demand our compliance with their security demands."

Are the ~5 resignations indicative of fierce internal opposition or beleaguered acquiescence within Google?

Previously: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal
Uproar at Google after News of Censored China Search App Breaks

Related: About a Dozen Google Employees Have Resigned Over Project Maven
"Don't be Evil" Disappearing From Google's Code of Conduct
Google Will Not Continue Project Maven After Contract Expires in 2019
Google Boots Open Source Anti-Censorship Tool From Chrome Store


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 14 2018, @11:00AM (15 children)

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday September 14 2018, @11:00AM (#734770) Homepage Journal

    Are the ~5 resignations indicative of fierce internal opposition or beleaguered acquiescence within Google?

    The latter or there would have been more than five. Which is really quite interesting to me. The exact same folks who put ideology over a coworker's job, chasing out a guy for being 100% factually correct but 0% politically correct, are throwing ideology out the window when it comes to their own jobs.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @11:08AM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @11:08AM (#734773)

      If it's the same guy we're both thinking of, they actually fired him for shitting all over the company message boards. Nothing else.

      Anyway, back on topic...

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 14 2018, @11:15AM (2 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday September 14 2018, @11:15AM (#734775) Homepage Journal

        When you ask someone something and they respond with a well researched and absolutely factually correct answer, you don't get to accuse them of shitting all over the message boards and retain any shred of credibility.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 4, Touché) by khallow on Friday September 14 2018, @11:58AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @11:58AM (#734793) Journal
          Well, they had to accuse him of something in order to fire him.
        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 17 2018, @10:16AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 17 2018, @10:16AM (#735911)

          Looks like SN has the same problem.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:18PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:18PM (#734831)

        Who is shitting over the message boards? The guy who posted his paper, or the sea of haters sending "fuck you!"s or "as a manager, I'll order my subjects to not work with you!"s?

        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday September 14 2018, @05:58PM (1 child)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday September 14 2018, @05:58PM (#734938) Journal

          None of them are appropriate for work.

          Grow the fuck up and get back to work.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @08:08PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @08:08PM (#735023)

            So all of them should have been fired, and not just the one guy?

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 14 2018, @12:00PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @12:00PM (#734794) Journal
      I think we also have to keep in mind that there's a great deal of secrecy here. Could become a jump the shark moment for Google once the program comes fully to light.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:24PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:24PM (#734918)

      Which 100% factually correct statement are you talking about?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @06:58PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @06:58PM (#734968)

        Really? Not gonna say which instance you are referring to?

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 14 2018, @07:52PM (1 child)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday September 14 2018, @07:52PM (#735009) Homepage Journal

          Not while I'm having a nap, no. My keyboard doesn't reach clear to my bed.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @08:00PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @08:00PM (#735016)

            Still no explanation. Ill just file this under "Google is perfect but someone doesnt like them" =)

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 14 2018, @07:53PM (2 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday September 14 2018, @07:53PM (#735010) Homepage Journal

        Dude's response on the boards for which he got shitcanned.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by VLM on Friday September 14 2018, @12:28PM (30 children)

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @12:28PM (#734800)

    China's authoritarian government views as sensitive, such as information about political dissidents, free speech, democracy, human rights, and peaceful protest.

    So its exactly the same stuff leftists want to censor in the USA. How many Chinese watch Alex Jones anyway?

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by PiMuNu on Friday September 14 2018, @12:54PM (29 children)

      by PiMuNu (3823) on Friday September 14 2018, @12:54PM (#734805)

      > So its exactly the same stuff leftists want to censor in the USA.

      Do you have a justification for that statement?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @01:57PM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @01:57PM (#734818)

        It is VLM, the serious version of Ethanol Fueled. Safer to ignore the crazy bastard.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 14 2018, @07:57PM (4 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday September 14 2018, @07:57PM (#735013) Homepage Journal

          EF's a tiny bit more insightful but gives a lot less of a shit. He don't consider responding to most folks with any seriousness worth his time.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Friday September 14 2018, @10:00PM (3 children)

            by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @10:00PM (#735097)

            I wouldn't disagree much. His posts are more interesting to read; I still have a residual habit of "if only I prove to them their religious beliefs are irrational, that'll give me the root password to un-brainwash them" which is usually a waste of time although sometimes entertaining.

            Most of my interactions with the left are along the pattern of "I believe I'm holier than thou because of my steadfast belief in (some irrational stuff having no scientific relationship to the real world)" "(proven irrational, LOL)" "General sophistry along the lines of fuck you you are evil nazi hatefacts need book burning party punch a nazi my religious belief is stronger than mere reality" etc.

            Also I clearly type faster than him, this comes out at 100 wpm unedited, whereas he's more a "brevity is the source of wit" type of poster.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 14 2018, @10:07PM (2 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Friday September 14 2018, @10:07PM (#735101) Homepage Journal

              Yup, it takes practice to stop yourself from trying to help folks out by making them less horribly wrong in nearly every way.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @11:05PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @11:05PM (#735132)

                Yall are some delusional motherfuckers.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 15 2018, @12:47AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 15 2018, @12:47AM (#735170)

                  The crazy part is I read the OIG report, the house committee report, related fbi indictments, and they all support Trump's story... Hilary Clinton campaign was up to some illegal shit in addition to her campaign "colluding with russia" (even worse, she got trolled by them), but all the people at intelligence agencies wanted her to win for whatever reason so they said "no reasonable prosecute would follow up on this" and such and then started spying on Trump and trying to set him up as an "insurance" strategy. In the process all sorts of illegal stuff was done, who knows how high it goes either.

                  The only thing that doesn't support this is a bunch of anonymous sources telling cnn and friends stuff that they repeat over and over. Thats the usual strategy to brainwash people who don't look into it (which will be most people, and there is nothing wrong with that). I am really at the point of deciding to vote for republicans over this, and fuck republicans and democrats. I've never voted for either before.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:27PM (21 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:27PM (#734834)

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/09/12/reddit-bans-r-greatawakening-the-main-subreddit-for-qanon-conspiracy-theorists/ [washingtonpost.com]

        I read that site (mostly for entertainment, but sometimes interesting info was pointed out) and there was zero violence promoted. In fact the theory there was always that anyone promoting violence in the name of "Q" would be a false flag so people were exceptionally careful about it there.

        The ban was 100% political censorship, which reddit is totally free to do, its just one more step down their path to obsolescence. Anyway, you can see the type of stuff that was being discussed here:

        https://voat.co/v/GreatAwakening [voat.co]
        https://voat.co/v/theawakening [voat.co]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:56PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:56PM (#734852)

          Reddit tolerated a lot of shit for a long time and refused to ban subs. Somehow i just cant believe your claims of innocence. Either way reddit is a shithole so whatever.

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday September 14 2018, @03:01PM (8 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday September 14 2018, @03:01PM (#734854) Journal

          Sign in and use a username, coward. What's the matter, are you afraid of getting doxxed?

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:15PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:15PM (#734860)

            Why? Nothing to be gained, and more to lose, by posting with a name on an informal news site.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:27PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:27PM (#734868)

            Are you planning on doxing all non-ACs or something?

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:44PM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:44PM (#734872)

            What's the matter, afraid someone might post something you disagree with and not have a username and post history you can aggressively comb through?

            The only coward here is you. If SoylentNews has a problem with Anonymous posting, they can disable the feature. They can even just straight up integrate it with Facebook so you can all post with pictures of yourselves next to your comments.

            As long as Anonymous commenting is a usable feature here, it will be used. So quit your bitching and figure out how to argue against a point instead of a person.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @04:12PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @04:12PM (#734878)

              Woooooosh

            • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday September 14 2018, @04:46PM (3 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday September 14 2018, @04:46PM (#734896) Journal

              Aaaaand there goes the point zooming over your tiny head at a leisurely Mach 3.4...

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:50PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:50PM (#734932)

                What was the point?

                • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @07:11PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @07:11PM (#734979)

                  The point was Azuma is a moron who responds to everything with non sequitur, and wants everyone else to post with accounts so they can look just as stupid as he does.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:17PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:17PM (#734916)

          Here is the relevant quote for you

          “We are very clear in our site terms of service that posting content that incites violence, disseminates personal information, or harasses will get users and communities banned from Reddit."

          So it didn't have to be inciting actual violence. Passing personal info to doxx people is quite common amongst that crowd, along with harassing users and brigading in other subreddits to draw attention to themselves. I don't much care for Reddit, but as a massively popular website I 100% understand why they would go this route. Not only to promote a better community but also to prevent future liability.

          Whine about hypocrisy all you want, but I'll take a page from Uggo's book and say "tits or GTFO".

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:47PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:47PM (#734931)

            Passing personal info to doxx people is quite common amongst that crowd, along with harassing users and brigading in other subreddits to draw attention to themselves.

            Who is "that crowd"? "That crowd" is obsessed with false flags, literally everything is a false flag to them. They considered telling people not to do anything that looked like inciting violence, doxing, etc defending against a false flag and were quick to accuse anyone who tried as a false flagger. I've never seen a community more actively against that stuff.

            The point is anyone can join any reddit community and start doing this to get it banned... reddit has basically opened themselves up to a form of swatting. Unless the mods werent deleting those posts, or dealing with the issue in whatever way they are expected to, then there's no reason to blame the subreddit.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @06:20PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @06:20PM (#734943)

              The angry white males crowd that tend to populate such places. Since I never frequented the subreddit myself I can not speak from authority just statistical likelihood. Trump defenders tend to have a very narrow demographic.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @06:33PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @06:33PM (#734953)

                Seemed to be a lot of "older" (40+) women actually. Actually the only "Q person" I have ever met in person was an older woman.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @07:06PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @07:06PM (#734976)

          Yaaa, conspiracy bullshit wrapped up in a nice racist blanket. Not exactly winning material there, and I can imagine how awful the comments sections were under those stories.

          Humanity is shedding its tolerance for racism. It is a BIG hurdle but we'll get there. Too bad all the actually interesting informative articles are caught up in that shit storm, which would make sense from a false flag point of view, but then you should band together and moderate with a heavy hand. But for some reason the racist shitposting just never seems to get banned on subs like that. Hmmmmm

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @09:19PM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @09:19PM (#735070)

            Probably the same women who smear shit and blood all over the bathroom walls.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @09:48PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @09:48PM (#735090)

              Found the angry white male!

              Muh uppreshun! Muh rightz! TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

              GIGO4EVA

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @10:20PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @10:20PM (#735108)

                Huh, I was saying thats who was on the Q anon reddit. It really is mostly grandmas.

        • (Score: 2) by VLM on Friday September 14 2018, @10:16PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @10:16PM (#735104)

          The ban was 100% political censorship, which reddit is totally free to do, its just one more step down their path to obsolescence.

          Wow thats crazy. Admittedly Reddit is a safe space for mentally ill and lots and lots and lots of pr0n. Its not a "everyman" discussion site like here or 4chan or voat, its only for nudie pix and crazy snowflakes.

          The Qanon stuff is a lot like Trump support itself, in that you just have to look at the quality of the opposition to know its worth supporting.

          Flat earth people are even more "wrong" than qanon people, therefore qanon getting banned is practically an admission of guilt that qanon stuff is true. Its a crazy shitty society like 80s USSR where stuff is untrusted unless low quality people are censoring it.

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by VLM on Friday September 14 2018, @09:54PM

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @09:54PM (#735095)

        Do you have a justification for that statement?

        Eh, the sophistry of "citation needed".

        How bout "The sun rises in the East"

  • (Score: 2) by Lester on Friday September 14 2018, @06:47PM (2 children)

    by Lester (6231) on Friday September 14 2018, @06:47PM (#734959) Journal

    By 1950, When USA decided to develop the H Bomb, Oppenheimer opposed, so Eduard Teller was became the leader of the project. Einstein didn't know about H bomb until Oppenheimer told him. Einstein said "Scientific community must stop this". Openheimer annoyed replied "What Scientific community? H Bomb is Eduard Teller's project, a wonderful challenge. It is his beloved son".

    All that speeches about not using AI for weapons makes me laugh. There will always be enough people, brilliant people, to do it. Whenever there is a new technology, it will be used for military. In fact, it is military who usually push the bleeding edge of every technology.

    The worms are out of the can... as usual.

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