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Jeff Bezos Is Planning to Ship 'Several Metric Tons of Cargo' to the Moon
Blue Origin, described by Bezos as "the most important work I'm doing," signed a letter of intent with German aerospace companies OHB Space Systems and Security and MT Aerospace at the 69th annual International Astronautical Congress (IAC) in Germany on Tuesday. The OHB SE dubbed the lunar project the "Blue Moon" mission in a press release.
It's not clear exactly what cargo the Blue Moon mission would transport, but it likely includes infrastructure designed to start private business on the Moon: The IAC also detailed the launch of the "Moon Race," a competition between Blue Origin, Airbus Air and Space, and other space agencies around the world to develop technology that will bring companies around the world to the Moon.
According to a press release, the competition could involve manufacturing products and technology, manufacturing energy sources for humans to survive, getting access to water and sustaining biological life, such as plant or agricultural life—all on the Moon.
Also at Space.com.
Related: Blue Origin to Compete to Launch U.S. Military Payloads
NASA Administrator Ponders the Fate of SLS in Interview (Blue Origin targets Moon landing by 2023)
SpaceX Reveals Plan to Fly Yusaku Maezawa and Artists "Around the Moon" in a BFR
Blue Origin Wins Contract to Supply United Launch Alliance With BE-4 Rocket Engines
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Friday October 05 2018, @04:31AM (19 children)
Same linky says:
So... not quite "it only applies to *states*, not private companies though.", unless you allow for "incorporated in no-country" situations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 4, Touché) by takyon on Friday October 05 2018, @04:50AM (13 children)
Treaties such as these are only as good as the enforcement mechanism.
If we see a self-sufficient colony develop on Mars, what's stopping them from stockpiling weapons? How does Earth launch an attack on a Mars, capable of crippling weapons systems, when a colony could see any approach weeks or months in advance?
At what point does a Mars colony gain its own sovereignty, allowing it to legitimately enter into treaties as it wishes and invalidate treaties signed by Earth nations?
A Moon colony would be much easier to keep control over since the Moon is easy to reach, easy to monitor, and more desolate. But it wouldn't be impossible for similar problems to arise in the far future.
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(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday October 05 2018, @05:12AM (8 children)
Two things that confuse me in this thread:
- Private companies with nukes ?
- Colonies that don't instantly collapse if the Earth they secede from stops actively maintaining them ?
Give that at least a century before it's anywhere near realistic. Space physics make everything human very slow to achieve.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday October 05 2018, @05:26AM (7 children)
A colony could start out as a "company town", but eventually draft its own constitution and become a sovereign nation.
Missiles could devastate incoming spacecraft. No nukes needed.
We could get Mars self-sufficient for the basics (food, water, air, meds, building material) much sooner than a century if we wanted to. Reusable rockets are a must. After the basics, you could make a list of things needed to produce effective weapons and launchers, such as aluminum, steel, etc.
I had a longer response but it got nuked.
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(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday October 05 2018, @09:19AM (6 children)
You are still ignoring the most restrictive factor for Mars colonization: energy - the controllable kind and plenty.
Solve this cheaply and the rest will be easy. If it's expensive, it will be long - you even can't burn dynojuice or coal on Mars as it is now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday October 05 2018, @10:22AM (5 children)
Solar works on Mars. I bet we could get fission, geothermal, and (in Martian summer) wind too.
(Score: 1) by Muad'Dave on Friday October 05 2018, @01:29PM (1 child)
Except when there's a month long, planet-wide dust storm [space.com].
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 06 2018, @12:36AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @06:17PM (2 children)
Mars' core is dead, how would you get geothermal?
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 05 2018, @07:29PM
He said geothermal, not areothermal; Mars's core has nothing to do with it. There's plenty of heat differential to be tapped between Earth's surface and Earth's mantle, all you need is some really long and bendy heat-pipes to reach them from Mars.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 06 2018, @12:36AM
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday October 05 2018, @06:21AM
We won't actually see one, not in our lifetime.
But let's extrapolate. After they are self-sufficient, the problem is who has control over them?
If, on top of self-sufficient, they can be independent (i.e. reasonable defend themselves), they'll not give a fuck about the treaties and will declare their independence. Then, it will be up to them if they'll sign or not the treaty.
If they cannot be independent, it all depends on what control the states/govts on Earth have over the controlling entity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday October 05 2018, @02:04PM
I would. A lot of people would. Freedom and independence are innate compulsions. People strike out on their own because they feel stifled by orthodoxy where they are. Frontiers are hard, and many people die trying to tame them. The soft don't survive. But the allure, the promise of doing everything the way they want to do them, outweighs the risks.
Mars and the rest of the solar system will probably be like that. Mars I could see becoming fabulously wealthy based on their proximity to all the resources of the asteroid belt, and as a way station for activities in the outer solar system.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by mrchew1982 on Friday October 05 2018, @04:44PM (1 child)
Much more likely for people to colonize Antarctica, at least it has plenty of air!
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday October 05 2018, @05:13PM
Which you'd only use a small percentage of to breathe.
Mars has ice, and you can use that to make oxygen or liquid water.
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(Score: 2) by zocalo on Friday October 05 2018, @11:53AM
Or incorporation in a state that isn't a signatory to the treaty, perhaps - the space age equivalent of a nautical flag of convenience. There are almost certainly at least a few non-signatories or countries that are yet to ratify the treaty that would seriously consider allowing a company to incorporate there in return for some financial considerations. Some of them might even be able to make some prime equatorial launch real estate available for the building of the spaceport too, come to that, which would probably be necessary in order to avoid getting blocked by trying to launch from a country that was a signatory.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday October 05 2018, @03:19PM (3 children)
How long do you suppose that any earth bound nation-state will be able to apply any force way out there? I give it two to five generations, tops. Fifty to a hundred twenty five years. How many generations of English lived on the American continent, before they rebelled? The same sort of people will be leaving earth to live in space. They'll all have entries in their personnel files, "Does not play well with others." "Resents authority." "Religious nut." "Batshit crazy." "Bugfuck insane."
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday October 05 2018, @05:17PM (2 children)
Out there? Why?
Since the Earth bound nation is responsible for what their minions are doing in space, you apply pressure on that nation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 06 2018, @12:38AM (1 child)
You're thinking short term and medium term. Long term. Like - more than a generation after people leave earth.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday October 06 2018, @12:41AM
Long term, they don't need nukes. "Landing" asteroids on Earth is good enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford