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Journal by Azuma Hazuki
Someone beat me to posting the story about the PA attorney general going after Epik and Gab. I saw it first on Ars Technica during my lunch break and my blood ran cold.
This is the dumbest, stupidest, most counterproductive, most self-destructive goddamn thing they could possibly have done. If I didn't already trust the government about as far as I can throw my bathtub--which is cemented to the floor--I would not have believed anyone in that position could possibly be that stupid.
Seriously, this is "Dealing With Nutbar Extremists 101" level shit here. When a group of people have utterly divorced themselves from reality and built an entire narrative around being oppressed and discriminated against, don't actually do anything to oppress or discriminate against them! Jesus!
What this idiot has done will be written down in history books, if indeed there are any historians left to write them and any literate people left to read them, as the pivotal, galvanizing moment for the United States' 21st century anti-Civil-Rights movement. This is going to kickstart a dark, twisted, blasphemous, zombified parody of all the 60s and 70s rallies that brought real, positive change to the nation. It's all gonna go to hell.
And why? Because some self-aggrandizing empty suit, some shortsighted, amoral political hack, decided to wipe his ass on the Constitution and do exactly what the fuck the kind of people who flock to Gab would do in the first place: advocate for lawbreaking violence (yes, this is a type of violence, it's a clear intimidation attempt) because "muh ideological purity!"
I don't think most people understand why this is so dangerous. The *least* bad part about this is that they've now turbocharged the aforementioned narrative. They have, in a word, turned Gab into martyrs. More dangerous is the precedent being set here; there is no reason that, say 10 years down the road when it's all gone to shit and we have Gab-denizens in charge, they can't and won't refer to this to shut down speech *they* don't like. Never, ever give yourself any powers or leeway you couldn't stand being used against you when the tables turn, as they always, always do. Especially not when your use of them is "this is dirty but I have to do it for great justice" and the opposition's use of them will be accompanied by nothing more self-reflective than a long string of maniacal, gleeful cackling.
But worst of all, this has undermined the legitimacy of government attempts to stifle actual violence and hate movements. From now on, any attempt to put a lid on any of it, all the way up to outright calls for genocide, is going to be viewed as suspicious, in any context, no matter who does it, and no matter what it is they're opposing. This asshole in Pennsylvania has played right into the lunatics' hands, and there is not a desk big enough to slam my face into that can express how utterly disgusted I am.
Let us not mince words: this is an intimidation attempt, a deliberate ploy to create a chilling effect, a fishing expedition in the worst way, and yes, very likely a Constitutional violation.
It's also--have I said this enough yet?--fucking stupid. What you do with toxic, asocial idiots like, well, like the kind of people who need a place like Gab, is...you let them go. You let them concentrate there, out of the way of civilized society, and you close the lid. Like a roach motel; Nazis check in, they don't check out, but because they want to stay in the motel. The correct course of action is to use the place as the internet's septic tank for white nationalists, and of course monitor it veeeeery very closely. Contain it, as you would any other plague virus, and make no mistake, what Gab is peddling is a memetic plague.
Hell, if I were this guy, I would have half a dozen agents make fake accounts there, blend in, and exfiltrate as much information as possible out of that place, the more ridiculous the better. And plaster it all over, too, using the advantage of exposure available to a government entity. Remember that guy, name I forget, who was fucking his mother in law or something? That kind of thing. Spread it around like cream cheese on the world's best bagels and make sure everyone gets a bite.
And of course, watch the place like a hawk and intercept anyone planning to, for example, shoot up a synagogue or something. Good grief, the best argument for these neo-Nazi pukes not having the brains Madokami gave a tree stump is that they willingly congregate on the open internet and openly discuss plans to harm or kill other people! THAT is something the government has both legal and moral authority to go after! This could have been like shooting particularly ugly, stupid, morally repulsive fish in a barrel!
In time, the contagion would have become self-limiting, and eventually burned itself out. Mockery, slow resource starvation, and simple waning interest would have done for it, reducing Gab to the racist online equivalent of "old man yells at cloud.jpg." But no. No, they went and did this stupid shit instead. I hope the ACLU and the EFF and all the other progressive groups come out in support of Gab, and you know what? I will be standing right there with them.
The Constitution, the law of the land, the backbone of the US, what we should always aspire to even if we ain't there (and even if it's only possible to approach asymptotically) is worth more than this. It's one thing when private businesses refuse to do business with them because they find them odious; it's quite another when the government steps in. Congratulations, PA AG: you've sunk to the level of Gab's userbase, and in doing so you may have doomed us all.
This is the dumbest, stupidest, most counterproductive, most self-destructive goddamn thing they could possibly have done. If I didn't already trust the government about as far as I can throw my bathtub--which is cemented to the floor--I would not have believed anyone in that position could possibly be that stupid.
Seriously, this is "Dealing With Nutbar Extremists 101" level shit here. When a group of people have utterly divorced themselves from reality and built an entire narrative around being oppressed and discriminated against, don't actually do anything to oppress or discriminate against them! Jesus!
What this idiot has done will be written down in history books, if indeed there are any historians left to write them and any literate people left to read them, as the pivotal, galvanizing moment for the United States' 21st century anti-Civil-Rights movement. This is going to kickstart a dark, twisted, blasphemous, zombified parody of all the 60s and 70s rallies that brought real, positive change to the nation. It's all gonna go to hell.
And why? Because some self-aggrandizing empty suit, some shortsighted, amoral political hack, decided to wipe his ass on the Constitution and do exactly what the fuck the kind of people who flock to Gab would do in the first place: advocate for lawbreaking violence (yes, this is a type of violence, it's a clear intimidation attempt) because "muh ideological purity!"
I don't think most people understand why this is so dangerous. The *least* bad part about this is that they've now turbocharged the aforementioned narrative. They have, in a word, turned Gab into martyrs. More dangerous is the precedent being set here; there is no reason that, say 10 years down the road when it's all gone to shit and we have Gab-denizens in charge, they can't and won't refer to this to shut down speech *they* don't like. Never, ever give yourself any powers or leeway you couldn't stand being used against you when the tables turn, as they always, always do. Especially not when your use of them is "this is dirty but I have to do it for great justice" and the opposition's use of them will be accompanied by nothing more self-reflective than a long string of maniacal, gleeful cackling.
But worst of all, this has undermined the legitimacy of government attempts to stifle actual violence and hate movements. From now on, any attempt to put a lid on any of it, all the way up to outright calls for genocide, is going to be viewed as suspicious, in any context, no matter who does it, and no matter what it is they're opposing. This asshole in Pennsylvania has played right into the lunatics' hands, and there is not a desk big enough to slam my face into that can express how utterly disgusted I am.
Let us not mince words: this is an intimidation attempt, a deliberate ploy to create a chilling effect, a fishing expedition in the worst way, and yes, very likely a Constitutional violation.
It's also--have I said this enough yet?--fucking stupid. What you do with toxic, asocial idiots like, well, like the kind of people who need a place like Gab, is...you let them go. You let them concentrate there, out of the way of civilized society, and you close the lid. Like a roach motel; Nazis check in, they don't check out, but because they want to stay in the motel. The correct course of action is to use the place as the internet's septic tank for white nationalists, and of course monitor it veeeeery very closely. Contain it, as you would any other plague virus, and make no mistake, what Gab is peddling is a memetic plague.
Hell, if I were this guy, I would have half a dozen agents make fake accounts there, blend in, and exfiltrate as much information as possible out of that place, the more ridiculous the better. And plaster it all over, too, using the advantage of exposure available to a government entity. Remember that guy, name I forget, who was fucking his mother in law or something? That kind of thing. Spread it around like cream cheese on the world's best bagels and make sure everyone gets a bite.
And of course, watch the place like a hawk and intercept anyone planning to, for example, shoot up a synagogue or something. Good grief, the best argument for these neo-Nazi pukes not having the brains Madokami gave a tree stump is that they willingly congregate on the open internet and openly discuss plans to harm or kill other people! THAT is something the government has both legal and moral authority to go after! This could have been like shooting particularly ugly, stupid, morally repulsive fish in a barrel!
In time, the contagion would have become self-limiting, and eventually burned itself out. Mockery, slow resource starvation, and simple waning interest would have done for it, reducing Gab to the racist online equivalent of "old man yells at cloud.jpg." But no. No, they went and did this stupid shit instead. I hope the ACLU and the EFF and all the other progressive groups come out in support of Gab, and you know what? I will be standing right there with them.
The Constitution, the law of the land, the backbone of the US, what we should always aspire to even if we ain't there (and even if it's only possible to approach asymptotically) is worth more than this. It's one thing when private businesses refuse to do business with them because they find them odious; it's quite another when the government steps in. Congratulations, PA AG: you've sunk to the level of Gab's userbase, and in doing so you may have doomed us all.
Damn it, don't fucking make me stick up for Gab!
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
You cannot have a science without measurement.
-- R. W. Hamming
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday November 10 2018, @05:56AM (21 children)
Okay, and...?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 10 2018, @06:40AM (20 children)
And, what? I've been saying very much the same thing. Freedom of speech, fascist sons of bitches, goddamn CTRL-Left, etc ad nauseum. Your style is your style, but I approve of the rant.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday November 10 2018, @05:53PM (19 children)
Right, but, what I meant was...why should it matter whether you approve or not? You very clearly don't have a working moral compass, so anything you say on the subject is basically noise.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 10 2018, @06:02PM (17 children)
rolleyes
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 10 2018, @06:10PM
God, really! She's just flinging poo. And she does tend to project a bit. Still fun to watch though. Just acting out to amuse herself.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 10 2018, @06:54PM (13 children)
Until you condemn the alt-right and other evil groups you are associated wuth then you are just a partisan hack. At least you have a few things right ideologically if not practically.
(Score: 1, Redundant) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 10 2018, @06:59PM (9 children)
Evil groups that I am associated with? Interesting idea there. What groups do you associate me with? You name them, and I'll decide whether I wish to condemn them. To be fair, you did mention this mythical "alt-right". No, I'm not associated with any group named "alt-right". I would condemn them, if I knew WTF they stood for. "Alt-right" has become Aristarchus' boogieman, hiding in every cabinet, and behind every door. But, I've not yet met an "alt-right".
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 11 2018, @01:42AM (8 children)
Really? Then you don't own a mirror or you're a vampire.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday November 11 2018, @03:18AM (7 children)
So, what you're saying is that YOU associate me with alt-right. Let me explain reality to you. I've been the same asocial asshole for decades. This alt-right nonsense is all brand new - no one had ever heard the phrase until, what, about three years ago? YOU associate conservatives with the alt-right. In my mind, alt-right is total nonsense - it's a made up thing, created by some egotistical asshole who claimed to speak for the right, or at least some segment of the right. And, all the libbies/progressives jumped on that made up shit like it means something. And, they look like idiots, because what you are calling "alt-right" seems to be more accurately defined as "populist".
If you want to associate me with populism, that would be only mildly objectionable. Calling me "alt-right" is just plain stupid - I have nothing in common with that egotistical asshole I've already mentioned.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday November 11 2018, @11:54PM (6 children)
You act like the alt-right. Your "asocial" schtick is a euphemism for antisocial behavior, which you have demonstrated in spades. You share the typical alt-righter's tenuous grasp of the Constitution, reactionary cast of mind, and apocalyptic fantasies. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and admires those who Heil while not daring to Heil itself, it's a neo-Nazi duck.
If you don't like this association, step back and ask yourself, "self, WHY are people lumping me in with the alt-right?"
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Monday November 12 2018, @04:22AM (5 children)
You may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but FFS, stop acting like a dullard. You know, and I know, that a 92nd percentile isn't THAT fucking stupid. Just stop acting it.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday November 12 2018, @08:01AM (4 children)
You just keep on proving every single point I bring up. Doesn't being this predictable, this self-destructive, ever get tiresome? Or are you the sort who wears his hair shirts on the inside?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Monday November 12 2018, @10:53AM (3 children)
You're kinda like the city slicker, who wants to tell a rancher or farmer how to do his job. You have "ideas" about how things "should be", and you want to enforce those ideas, and/or persuade other people to accept those ideas. Unfortunately, reality just doesn't conform to you ideas. You're out of phase or something, girl. Self destructive? Really? How in HELL do you think I've survived all this time? Derp-a-derp! As for "predictable" - well, about the only thing you can reliably predict is that you'll attack me any time you see my name on a post. Funny though - those times I post AC, you not only approve of my statements, but you mod them up! That's some funny shit, right there.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday November 12 2018, @04:42PM (2 children)
Shit, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Being right doesn't mean you're right for the correct reasons. Muslims are correct that in an Iron-age milieu in a hot climate, eating pork is bad; they THINK it's bad because Allah said so, though.
You're upset ("triggered" is what your kind would say) and your "hurr hurr city slicker derp" retort is the obvious tell. That, and the low signal to noise ratio of your last two posts including this one. As to how you've survived? White, straight, not-obviously-disabled male with a military background; American culture practically falls over itself to fellate you people (except when it comes to healthcare, when you see what the real powers of the nation *actually* think of vets...). You survived this long because the system is more or less built for you. A puddle might as well ask why the ground is so well-engineered for puddles.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 13 2018, @07:17PM (1 child)
In case Runaway continues to read this thread I'll chime in.
While I do not think he is an actual alt-right Proud Boy those ARE the types of associations I initially referred to. Actually, much broader than that, pretty much any conservative type person. Whether Runaway realizes it or not he is surrounded by all sorts, some of whom may be true alt-righters, the full blown racist sorts that don't even try to hide behind "cultural pride".
Runaway you are quick to criticize liberal bullshit (or even just things you disagree with / don't understand) around here and very rarely criticize conservative bullshit unless their bullshit is on some narrow topics like net neutrality and amoral big business tactics. I think you really underestimate the level of racism that surrounds Republicans, and a good part of that I believe is your tendency to view "objective facts" without context which leads you to agree with racist statements.
For an example of far left bullshit: "Many Republicans have varying degrees of racist issues therefore every Republican is an evil Nazi"
You hate that characterization. If you want to change the perception of "conservative" then you need to take a very proactive stance against racism and other such bullshit. "When good men do nothing" is the idea here, and as we watch you do nothing and sometimes even promote the bullshit then all respect is lost.
You roll your eyes when Azuma calls you the worst of the worst, and I get that, but you fail to see your actual connections to that community. Imagine a story about Antifa violence and some liberal users go on and on about the evil racist neo-nazis and applaud Antifa for punching them in the face. You would be correct to judge those users as promoters of violence and hypocritical. Welp, here you are, now man up and repair that moral compass.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday November 14 2018, @05:52AM
He's already given the game away several times. He is looking forward to civil war and he wants to see, I suppose "democide" is the right word rather than genocide, committed against his enemies. He's a rather typical military type with what sounds like some heavy Christian influence, and you *know* what kind of mental poison the Abrahamic religions are.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday November 13 2018, @03:35PM (2 children)
For what evil? The two minute hate shtick gets old. At least, bring snacks next time and maybe we'll participate.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 13 2018, @07:25PM (1 child)
but you are participating for free right now!
How you can ignore the massive evidence of institutional racism across the US is beyond me. For what evil? Pay attention, no one likes having to point out blatantly obvious reality to people who only pretend to want it. How about the most recent item of a bouncer stopping a gunman and then getting murdered by police? Obviously the guy was not a threat and would have complied with the police, but they went in shooting first.
How about the guy who TOLD police he had a concealed carry and got shot as he went to get his wallet out? How about the million other times this has happened and all the video evidence of it happening? There are so MANY examples of racism at play in law enforcement and politics along with politicians being caught admitting to these things. Yet here you are, khallow the infinitely objective, sowing FUD and bullshit. Either you are evil yourself or you're just a stupid kid that will look back in shame one day.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 14 2018, @07:03AM
Pure straw man. We weren't talking about that. We were talking about some nebulous group labeled "the alt-right and other evil groups" who don't have influence on racism in law enforcement.
How about you start actually discussing the thread at hand?
(Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Tuesday November 13 2018, @09:09AM (1 child)
Nothing to worry about, Runaway always does this when he is in "congress" with the livestock. Nothing to take notice of, like all his postings. He is just a head full of pudding, and sometimes some of it spills out onto the internets, and appears to be a post. Move along, nothing to see, except, what about that smoke cloud, or a muzzle of bees, down the road, towards Tejas, where the real Chili dwells? Runaway cannot approve, his brain is non-functional.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 13 2018, @07:33PM
Fuck off Ari.
It is clear at this point that republicans are exceptionally susceptible to brainwashing propaganda and they are also the massive target of most of it. However, instead of compassion and understanding you fan the flames of hatred ALL THE FUCKING TIME instead of responding with even a tiny bit of actual discussion.
I fully understand the desire and sometimes just run with insults myself, but you seem to do it more often than not. Hell, I even rolled my eyes at Azuma's overly aggressive characterization of Runaway, and when your insults fly too wide they lose any meaning. I was the AC who called him out to condemn the groups around him, and instead of explaining simple reality to the simple minded you and Azuma went on an ad-hominem spree which really didn't do anything but fan the flames of anger and division.
At the least please include actual reasoning and evidence along with your insults. It is unlikely anything will penetrate the shield of bullshit propaganda, but it is very likely that only using insults will make the shield stronger.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 11 2018, @01:39AM
A compass won't work when the needle is up his ass (he uses it to find his head).