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Huawei Arrest Tests China's Leaders as Fear and Anger Grip Elite
The arrest of one of China's leading tech executives by the Canadian police for extradition to the United States has unleashed a combustible torrent of outrage and alarm among affluent and influential Chinese, posing a delicate political test for President Xi Jinping and his grip on the loyalty of the nation's elite.
The outpouring of conflicting sentiments — some Chinese have demanded a boycott of American products while others have expressed anxiety about their investments in the United States — underscores the unusual, politically charged nature of the Trump administration's latest move to counter China's drive for technological superiority.
In a hearing on Friday in Vancouver, Canadian prosecutors said the executive, Meng Wanzhou of the Chinese telecom giant Huawei, faced accusations of participating in a scheme to trick financial institutions into making transactions that violated United States sanctions against Iran.
Unlike a new round of tariffs or more tough rhetoric from American officials, the detention of Ms. Meng, the company's chief financial officer, appears to have driven home the intensifying rivalry between the United States and China in a visceral way for the Chinese establishment — and may force Mr. Xi to adopt a tougher stance against Washington, analysts said. In part, that is because Ms. Meng, 46, is so embedded in that establishment herself.
Previously: Canada Arrests Huawei's Global Chief Financial Officer in Vancouver
Related: New Law Bans U.S. Government from Buying Equipment from Chinese Telecom Giants ZTE and Huawei
Australia Bans China's Huawei (and maybe ZTE) from 5G Mobile Network Project
Washington Asks Allies to Drop Huawei
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 09 2018, @12:46AM (13 children)
China is a state full of amoral people who do things like sell pet food which contains melamine and sell drywall made from toxic waste.
Mark my words, China is the enemy of the western world and it will get worse.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 09 2018, @01:09AM (10 children)
Amoral people. Yes, no, maybe . . .
The Chinese have just recently been pulled out of the 12th or maybe the 15th century. I mean the general population, the average Yee. Government officials and employees, as well as the academics, have had it pretty good for the past fifty years, but the population is still working on catching up to the 20th century, let alone the 21st. A lot of the stupid shit we've seen from China is due to ignorance, more than any amorality.
Yes, of course China has it's share of evil sons of bitches, just like we do. But it seems important that we separate the evil from the ignorant and naive. Ignorance explains quite adequately why all of the steel and iron from China was shoddy. As time passes, they seem to be getting better at making steel. I'm still not willing to buy candy or other foods from China, but some of their work is actually becoming competitive with the world wide market.
If you want to assign morality to China, maybe you should reserve those judgements for the government and the business leaders.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 09 2018, @01:37AM (5 children)
I've personally experienced Chinese people behaving in unethical ways in the US.
It is part of their culture. Money is all that matters. If they can screw you and get away with it, for many Chinese it's a no-brainer to do so. Ask ANYONE who has rented from a Chinese person in the Bay Area. You'll get an earful, guaranteed.
You don't have to believe what I wrote, and I don't give a fuck whether you do or not, because I am well acquainted with your posting history and I am convinced that you are not very smart, and I am trying to be kind when I put it that way.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 09 2018, @01:48AM
Bay area? I presume you mean Gay Bay, in California? And, you're attempting to convince me that you have higher morals than Chinese people? Face it, dude, you're just another xenophobe.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 09 2018, @02:27AM (1 child)
In defense of the Chinese, I'd say a lot probably has to do if they grew up in Mao's hellhole. It was a dog eat dog society, and you did what you had to to get ahead. If you want to see authentic Chinese, go to Taiwan.
Other Chinese run societies like Hong Kong, Macau and Singapore each have notably different culture - and prejudices against Mainlanders.
(Score: 2) by aiwarrior on Sunday December 09 2018, @10:31PM
Hmmm Macau? I do not think you know how dirty the gambling industry is.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Sunday December 09 2018, @03:22AM (1 child)
So.... what? You're saying they're Republicans?
--
I've fallen off your lawn and I can't get up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 09 2018, @11:49PM
FTFY
(Score: 2) by Blymie on Sunday December 09 2018, @08:56AM (3 children)
There are two things I'd like to add here.
The first is -- China, as with most Oriental countries, is a very https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_piety [wikipedia.org] filled culture. If you're of higher rank, if you're an elder?
Dissent is not really as much of an option.
What I've seen in mostly Chinese run companies, is a much stronger "top to bottom" hierarchy and level of obedience. And in fact, much less of a desire to even question decisions, or even consider "why", from the average Chinese person embedded in said culture.
So, where as our laws, customs, culture and so forth in the West tends to lean towards "Holy crap, what is my boss doing with this stuff?", in China? I strongly suspect it's more like "I can't wait for this 14 hour day to get over, I need to put more of this stuff in this food, or my elders will feel shame, I'll feel shame, and my life will be over".
Couple that with the fact that most Chinese people working in factories are not educated as the average Westerner is. As parent poster eluded to, most were living in small farming villages, and migrated to the city as China expanded / grew rapidly.
Of course, that doesn't absolve anyone of blame... but it may absolve people of moral turpitude. On can, after all, be guilty of manslaughter -- and not murder. The difference is intent, and moral compass.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 09 2018, @10:05AM (2 children)
Yup. I've never made any claims to be a scholar of oriental society, but I do read a lot. I used to ask myself, "How can anyone be so STUPID as to" do whatever the people were doing. It took time to realize that the children are brought up with entirely different attitudes. Parents don't dote on their children. A spoiled child would have been an extreme rarity at any point in Chinese history - something that only the very elite could afford. In the US, we have helicopter parents, soccer moms, and spoiled children have always been a thing. Very young children are probably lectured on the many aspects of honor. Instead of our sort of religion, ancestor worship taught the kids that they owe something to the elders, not the other way around.
Starting from that perspective, one can see that many of our concepts in western society simply don't apply to the Chinese, or any other Asian culture. "Fair" and "right" start from entirely different assumptions than we would ever consider.
In another conversation, I told someone that Christianity gave us our "western values". The person I was talking to was shocked that I would make such a statement. China is a perfect example of a reasonably well functioning society, in which religion has had little influence. Without the influences of Judaism, Christianity, and even Islam, we might expect that the West might be very much like Chinese culture.
Or, maybe not. Animism was a huge thing in most western and mideastern countries. We may just as well have gone some entirely different route without the Abrahamic religions.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 09 2018, @05:23PM (1 child)
the white man's laws with an attempt at fairness were being developed before they were exposed to Judaism.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday December 09 2018, @06:50PM
Well, yes, of course they were. But, so few examples have been handed down through history. Were the Vikings "fair"? Or the Celts? The Germanic tribes? How 'bout those Vandals? Or the Druids? Fact is, from the fall of Rome until Christianity spread far and wide across Europe, there really isn't a lot of example to pull from. Let us try to imagine a world in which Christianity was abolished, and snuffed out in Rome's last years. Would "western values" be what they are today? Would you, as a modern day Westerner, agree with their concepts of fairness?
I suspect that if you were transplanted right now into that alternative reality, you would suffer a culture shock. That shock may or may not be as great as being transplanted into Chinese culture, or Arabic culture, but there would be a shock.
I'm sure you would adapt, but for the rest of your life, you would be faced with instances in which you would wish you were back in our current society.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 09 2018, @03:06AM (1 child)
China today is very similar to the U.S. in the 1930s. The U.S. ended up with food safety laws because of the shenanigans during that period. Chemists trying to make spoiled meat appear and smell ok enough to sell, sawdust added to bread, etc.
The Chinese people are aware of the issues, and as the middle class grows, it will only be a matter of time before their regulation of rich greedy assholes reigns this minority in.
Rich greedy assholes are the same everywhere. The damage they do to others is only limited by how strong they are reigned in by society and regulations.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 09 2018, @12:47PM
Except China is a dictatorship which might throw some spanners in the works. These greedy assholes are pretty well entreched. I do hope I'm wrong though.