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posted by takyon on Monday December 10 2018, @04:01PM   Printer-friendly
from the giant-leap dept.

Aral Balkan has a blog post about taking small steps to end surveillance capitalism. In particular he focuses on the need for federated services. He points out that the move to re-decentralize the WWW is difficult and needs to start at the beginning, using a comparison of Apple's original computers to their latest generation of tablets as an illustration.

Five years ago, when I decided to devote myself to tackling the problem of surveillance capitalism, it was clear what we needed: convenient and beautiful ethical everyday things that provide seamless experiences1 on fully free-as-in-freedom stacks.

This is as true today as it was then and it will remain so. The only way to compete with unethical products built by organisations that have control over hardware + software + services is to create ethical organisations that have control over hardware + software + services and thus have at least the possibility to craft competitive experiences. We remove our eyes from this goal at our peril.

Related: Tim Berners-Lee Launches Inrupt, Aims to Create a Decentralized Web


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  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 10 2018, @06:29PM (24 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 10 2018, @06:29PM (#772470)

    damn liberals and their elitist surveillance profiteering!

    "people tend to centralize."

    They need something to blame, outside themselves, when things go wrong.

    Seriously, that is one stupid statement and even if you were going for funny/witty it falls flat. The answer is convenience, nothing more.

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  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday December 10 2018, @06:37PM (17 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday December 10 2018, @06:37PM (#772474) Journal

    The answer is convenience...

    And dat too! The convenience of passing blame... It's all part of the same show. You don't have to get all stressed out over it. "Liberals" and "conservatives" have nothing to do with the prices of rice here.

    --
    Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 10 2018, @08:02PM (16 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 10 2018, @08:02PM (#772525)

      No one uses facebook because it is convenient to pass blame. That is not a part of the decision making process when anyone signs up.

      Are you confusing people blaming FB for privacy violations with motivation to use their service??

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Monday December 10 2018, @08:29PM (15 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday December 10 2018, @08:29PM (#772541) Journal

        Yes, there are some people that choose a closed source program over open source precisely to have somebody to blame when support is insufficient. Can't say if it's true for Facebook, but it does help Microsoft's sales figures.

        Submissive people look for (central) leaders for many reasons. Passing blame is one of them, even if it is mostly subconscious.

        --
        Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 10 2018, @09:59PM (10 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 10 2018, @09:59PM (#772584)

          kekekekekek

          your view of reality is warped

          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday December 11 2018, @12:30AM (8 children)

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 11 2018, @12:30AM (#772665) Journal

            How is it warped? He (assuming this is a he, here...) has a very solid point.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @05:25PM (7 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @05:25PM (#772944)

              Choosing a vendor because they have enterprise support is not the same thing as choosing them so you can pass the blame. That concept flies a tiny bit with an OS vendor but not at all with FB. All i was saying is people are not using a centralized soci media service so they can blame anyone, that is zero % of the rationale.

              • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:05PM (6 children)

                by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:05PM (#773008) Journal

                Jeezus! It's psych 101. People look for authority figures so they can become blobs and let somebody else take the fall. Are you so willfully blind to basics?

                --
                Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:12PM (5 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:12PM (#773011)

                  Take that libertarian trash somewhere else.

                  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:36PM (2 children)

                    by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:36PM (#773024) Journal

                    Pfft!

                    Oh! sorry, did I do that?

                    C'mon man. Try to cough up something better than that

                    --
                    Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @08:03PM (1 child)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @08:03PM (#773045)

                      Ditto Sir, Edge Lord Sir!

                      Permission to speak freely sir? Thank you sir. Your fedora is tipped at a weird angle sir!

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @08:10PM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @08:10PM (#773049)

                        Much better, gracias...

                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday December 11 2018, @08:41PM (1 child)

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 11 2018, @08:41PM (#773062) Journal

                    That isn't libertarian trash. It's fairly well-known and well-demonstrated that people usually prefer to act in this manner. I have not a clue why but suspect it's something to do with the energetic path of least resistance, i.e., this uses the least energy so our bodies favor it.

                    --
                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @09:22PM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @09:22PM (#773092)

                      Humans group together and form power hierarchies. I'll agree with that.

                      While "let me be a blob and let someone else do all the work and take all the blame" may be true for a small minority of humans it is by no means the average. That line of negative thinking towards humanity leads to tyranny and class structures.

                      "People WANT me to be a dictator and therefore I can do whatever I want! GOD WILLS IT!"

                      Azuma you present a much more sane version with "suspect it's something to do with the energetic path of least resistance". In a communal structure people take on various roles. You are correct, it is about efficiency.

                      Fustakirich is not correct, it is not all about humans debasing themselves so they can be lazy couch potatoes. It is a little bit of a nit-picky distinction on my part but I feel it is very important.

          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 11 2018, @12:37AM

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday December 11 2018, @12:37AM (#772673) Journal

            Eh, no worse than yours, or any other of the 7.5 billion's.

            --
            Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @02:33PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @02:33PM (#772861)

          Yes, there are some people that choose a closed source program over open source precisely to have somebody to blame when support is insufficient.

          Only in corporate environments. Private people usually just blame "the computer" if something doesn't work.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:04PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:04PM (#772969)

          Let ua bring this back to your post that started this:

          people tend to centralize.

          They need something to blame, outside themselves, when things go wrong.

          You walked this back a little but it is still a very minor aspect of anything. Choosing a service for support is not the same as choosing one to blame. That is an edgy comment for when you want to sound insightful at a party.

          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:00PM (1 child)

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:00PM (#773006) Journal

            Bla bla bla, if this is a party, where's my beer??

            Please, enough of your silly games, just read and at least make a feeble effort to comprehend what was written to avoid needless repetition. Fundamentals are important.

            --
            Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @08:05PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @08:05PM (#773046)

              You complain a lot with very little substance. Back to your Olivye.

  • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:29AM (5 children)

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday December 11 2018, @07:29AM (#772787) Homepage Journal

    Have a read of cognitive dissonance. It's very well established in the literature

    Simply put, most people have a far higher opinion of themselves than they really deserve

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @05:30PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @05:30PM (#772952)

      Ok back up that claim, what is your reasoning to support the claim that people use FB because they could blame them for, what exactly?

      • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday December 11 2018, @05:51PM (3 children)

        by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday December 11 2018, @05:51PM (#772960) Homepage Journal

        It's easy enough to set up your own blog at your own website, but were you to do that you'd have to accept the blame for fucking it up.

        --
        Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:38PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:38PM (#772986)

          I think this whole argument is just two sides of the same coin. I still maintain people are making their choices out of convenience, not the more negative aspect of being able to blame the service if things go wrong; but you could say that blaming the service IS the convenience.

          I think you are conflating the idea that people look for blame when things go wrong with the motivating principle that gets them to set things up in the first place. When electing politicians we aren't looking for someone we can easily blame, but when things go wrong we definitely start looking for the easy targets.

          All I am saying is that people are NOT choosing to use centralized social media so they can blame them, people choose those services because they are conveniently easy to access and often have their friends and family with them. That was the original argument, not some exercise in cognitive dissonance. Which btw please go look it up, it was a little more detailed than I thought it was and you definitely used it wrong.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:46PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2018, @06:46PM (#772994)

          PS: you run scripts to check for replies? last I checked SN doesn't notify you of AC replies.