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posted by takyon on Saturday January 05 2019, @08:58PM   Printer-friendly
from the coinspiracy dept.

The Dark Overlord Decrypts More 9/11 Insurance Files

On New Year's Eve, Motherboard broke the news that a hacking group known as The Dark Overlord was threatening to release a cache of stolen insurance and legal documents related to the 9/11 attacks. After distributing a small preview set of files, the group has now publicly released a decryption key for more files, meaning anyone can download and read them.

[...] Twitter banned The Dark Overlord's account on Wednesday. Reddit followed suit shortly after. In response, The Dark Overlord is now publishing its announcements on Steemit, a blockchain-based and harder to moderate platform. The Shadow Brokers, a self-described hacking group that released a slew of NSA hacking tools, used the same platform for their communications.

The stolen data itself allegedly comes from a legal firm that advised Hiscox Group, a Hiscox spokesperson previously told Motherboard in a statement. The previously released documents included presentation slide decks, legal correspondence between law firms, and letters from a handful of government agencies. 9/11 conspiracy theorists have been particularly interested in the release of the documents, with internet commenters and several conspiracy-minded YouTubers making videos saying that they hope they will somehow reveal a vast conspiracy around the attacks.

[...] The group released the data after receiving 3 bitcoin, or around $11,000, as part of its self-announced crowdfunding effort.

Does anyone have a link to these documents yet?

Also at the Miami Herald.


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  • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday January 05 2019, @09:04PM

    by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday January 05 2019, @09:04PM (#782605) Homepage

    Limited hangout etc.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @09:16PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @09:16PM (#782606)

    The official report claimed no one heard explosions despite numerous video evidence of it, said explosions needed to be much louder than need be (simulated the sound loudest possible explosive with no obstacles or noise), removed support beams from the simulations of the collapse, etc. Recently a grand jury was convened for the purpose of reinvestigating all this:

    https://www.ae911truth.org/grandjury [ae911truth.org]

    I wonder if it had to do with the supposed serving subpoenas of bush, etc at his fathers funeral: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qasz_T97pY [youtube.com]

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @09:58PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @09:58PM (#782613)

      Jet beams can't melt steel fuel.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @03:23AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @03:23AM (#782666)

        Oh yeah? Here, hold my beer ...

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:46PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:46PM (#782626)

      Funny and spam mods? Well, the youtube video is BS, but there is a rumor about sunpoenas/indictments being served there.

      The problems with the official investigation do exist though, and grand jury is happening. The process was begun November 7th, 2018: https://ae911truth.org/images/PDFs/US-Attorney-Letter-110718.pdf [ae911truth.org]

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:23AM (1 child)

        by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:23AM (#782725) Journal

        Incredible. Absolutely incredible. Something must be done with dopey SPAM Modders!!!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:46PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:46PM (#782740)

          Don't you worry your straw-covered head. Mueller will get to those people as soon as he's done with his current assignment.

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:04PM (6 children)

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:04PM (#782614) Homepage Journal

    That he really _is_ paranoid can be seen by his actively seeking out conspiracies. If there's a rational explanation for something and a conspiratorial explanation he'll always go for the conspiracy.

    He's a great guy. This isn't Schizophrenia rather I expect it's Paranoid Personality Disorder. Such people don't fear conspiracies, rather to know that everything is a conspiracy comforts them as it enables them to make sense of their worlds.

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:26PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:26PM (#782617)

      MDC did 9/11.

      MDC did NOT do 9/11 and then LIED about it.

      Soggy Jobs was shitcanned. Soggy Jobs still exists.

      Fuck MDC

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:49PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:49PM (#782627)

      The reality that everybody in power is incompetent and nothing happens for any reason outside of the gut whims of whoever is currently in charge is a more shocking realization than any of the untold conspiracy theories in circulation, they're indeed all stories of comfort.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @05:14AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @05:14AM (#782684)

      Most of the 'theories' are bunk. Every once and awhile it is 'waaaht they were right' But usually it is over boring junk like 'they were working on a spy plane' or 'they conducted experiments on unwitting soldiers'. The 'far out' ones take quite the leap of logic to think they are even close to true. I follow the things because it is mildly amusing. Are any of them true. No not really. Just mindless fiction for me. Where I draw the line is the ones that make poor choices in life because of these theories. For example the vaccination conspiracy theory guys really piss me off. We could easily go from 'that is eliminated and saved millions of lives' back to 'thousands die per year' all because of the fear they generate. Those need to end. However, for example 9/11. Who did it? That is easy. It was a bunch of pissed off Muslims from ex Saudi Arabia nationals hence us tearing up Iraq and Afghanistan because we stopped funding their 'jihad' in the 80s after the fall of the soviet union. There is no vast conspiracy there. It is just a bunch of richy riches trying to cover up what their brothers did and keep the trail of funding away from them.

      I am of the bigger believer of the theory most of the people in charge are just winging it and doing whatever they feel looks good or they feel is good. No real logic here. Facts do not matter. They will just do whatever. They are not malevolent. They are just doing what they know best in a situation where they know nothing. It would be like handing me a scalpel and saying 'you are up for some brain surgery today on this guy with a tumor'. I would make a total butcher job of it. Ask me to debug what is wrong in your code and you can repeat it I probably can knock it out in a few hours to days (depending on luck). Ask the same of my wife and it would never happen. This is easy to prove. Just look at your boss then your bosses boss. Do you think they know what is going on? No not really. It is mostly the same everywhere. You have an exception here and there. But most people have no clue what the hell is going on. They try to glue it together with 'facts' which are little more than opinions that are disguised as them.. Hell even what I am saying is that. We do this all the time. It is called cognitive bias. We justify doing things because our lying brains told us to do something. We then make up some excuse why it was 'ok'.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:27AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:27AM (#782710)

        Sounds like you know nothing about bio so easily believe random shit bio 'experts' say. Thats called the gellman amnesia effect.

  • (Score: 2) by RandomFactor on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:35PM (4 children)

    by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:35PM (#782621) Journal

    1) Something very bad happened and afterwards Insurance and Law firms write lots and lots about it.
        -- Expected result
    2) Someone managed to hack some old insurance and law firm files about it
        -- Not surprising. These types of organizations are not known for their IT security expertise.

    And now the hackers are demanding bitcoin from people (that would be better served just reading a little [lmgtfy.com]) to release the hacked documents.

    In no scenario would there ever be anything about such a conspiracy known and documented by random legal and insurance firms.

    --
    В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
    • (Score: 2) by exaeta on Saturday January 05 2019, @11:28PM (3 children)

      by exaeta (6957) on Saturday January 05 2019, @11:28PM (#782635) Homepage Journal
      It really depends. Assuming the FBI investigated, maybe the prosecution found out about something but decided there wasn't enough evidence to secure a conviction. Maybe the insurance companies have that evidence, and don't want the public to find out about it because it would damage their reputation? Maybe it's doubtful that they would have anything super significant, but I will look forward to checking the contents of these files.
      --
      The Government is a Bird
      • (Score: 2) by black6host on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:46AM (1 child)

        by black6host (3827) on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:46AM (#782653) Journal

        And to find out the answers to these questions and more.... Tune in Saturday morning!

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @10:29AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @10:29AM (#782719)

          Same Bat Time!! Same Bat Channel!!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @05:32AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @05:32AM (#782687)

        Pretty much the whole gov went ballistic after 9/11. The FBI and CIA investigated everything even slightly involved with it. That there is a massive paperwork trail should surprise no one. That they uncovered 'things' should surprise no one. It is like cops busting into a drug house and finding 3 dead bodies. They were not looking for dead bodies they were looking for drugs.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:42PM (55 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:42PM (#782624) Journal

    Article is short on substance. What exactly is in these files? I always wondered why the hell Tower 7 went down even though it wasn't hit with anything...

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 3, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:53PM (35 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @10:53PM (#782628)

      It went down because it was rigged for demolition for some reason. Use occams razor:

      1) Immediately before collapse people heard a series of explosions, exactly like before a controlled demolition.
      2) It collapsed exactly as it would in a controlled demolition.
      3) No skyscraper besides that one has ever collapsed, besides due to controlled demolition.
      4) There is no other explanation for the collapsed that doesnt involve ignoring evidence or simulatimg a poorly designed skyscraper.

      Now why was it rigged and who did it? That is what the upcoming grand jury is about.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @05:29AM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @05:29AM (#782686)

        There is no other explanation for the collapsed that doesnt involve ignoring evidence or simulatimg a poorly designed skyscraper
        Really? Having a background in construction tells me otherwise.

        I can even use the vaunted conspiracy theory goto 'building 7'. A controlled explosion would have brought the whole thing down. It failed due to fire. Due to the fact across the street ANOTHER 2 large buildings had collapsed on top of the water mains and most of the fire fighters in the area being dead. Those noises heard where the load bearing members snapping like twigs as they failed due to heat stress.

        Most people think buildings are these massive rigid structures. No. They are more like toothpicks held together with gum. They sway. They flex. They move. They are built by the lowest bidder. This is the same city that can not get its shit together to replace some train tracks and some signals in their subway despite billions of dollars spent. Yet somehow these buildings were to be masterpieces of construction that could withstand nuclear blasts. I am going to say that seems unlikely.

        You are using occams razor wrong The simpliest idea is they failed due to 2 airplanes that were filmed and witness flying into WTC1 and 2. Those buildings collapsed due to heat stress of the load bearing floor supports and several thousand tons of 2 jets sitting on floors not meant to support that weight? How much does a 737 weigh? How much can 1 floor of the WTC support. I am going to go out on a limb and say NOT the weight of a jet. 7 caught fire due to flaming jet fuel and debris from WTC1 and WTC2.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:31AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:31AM (#782711)

          So you agree the official explanation is wrong? Or you just dont realize what it is?

        • (Score: 1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:49AM

          by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Sunday January 06 2019, @11:49AM (#782732) Journal

          You know, we had a fire at Trump Tower. Almost a year ago. So many people in Trump Tower. Getting a lot of work done. Or just having a fabulous time -- whether it's fine dining, shopping or "sex." Very popular building, a lot of people there when the fire happened. But, nobody injured in that one. twitter.com/TODAYshow/status/950344716637360128 [twitter.com]

          And, we had another fire in April. Also VERY CONFINED. Because it's what we call a well built building. No sprinklers. So many people said, "oh, what about Sprinklers, where are the Sprinklers?" I'll tell you, nobody knew from Sprinklers when we did the Design for that one. So we designed it, very successfully, with ZERO Sprinklers. But it's a magnificent design, that fire did very little damage. Because our firemen (and women firemen) did a tremendous job. THANK YOU!

        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:49PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:49PM (#782742)

          Most people think buildings are these massive rigid structures. No. They are more like toothpicks held together with gum.

          What type of gum? And what flavor??

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @08:23PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @08:23PM (#782826)

          no, you lazy slave. that's not what happened. it was demolished just like larry silverstein said on tape. go read 9/11 commission report omissions and distortions, for starters. if you think the twin towers fell due to the plains you're pathetic.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:26PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:26PM (#782855)

            Doubt anybody claimed that they collapsed due to plains.

      • (Score: 5, Touché) by epitaxial on Sunday January 06 2019, @06:35AM (2 children)

        by epitaxial (3165) on Sunday January 06 2019, @06:35AM (#782691)

        Occam's razor tells me you're a foil hat wearing idiot. The fact that you're so highly modded gives me doubt about the intelligence of the readers of this site.

        1) The "explosions" were the support structures failing. Know what happens when a lot of energy is suddenly released? Loud noise
        2) The building was designed to fail in that manner
        3) Name another skyscraper to be hit by a jumbo jet at speed
        4) This is conjecture on your part

        What are your thoughts about the bombing of the same building in 1993? Was that also a false flag operation?

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @07:04AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @07:04AM (#782693)

          Then why did WTC 7 collapse at free fall from a ‘furniture fire’? Another ‘coincidence’.

          The fact you’re modded so highly gives me great doubt of the readers of this site.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:37AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:37AM (#782712)

          Another random explanation not offered by FEMA or NIST. The officials missed yours too I guess.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday January 06 2019, @04:28PM (25 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 06 2019, @04:28PM (#782775) Journal
        Let's remove the conspiracy filter here:

        1) Immediately before collapse people heard a series of loud noises that sounded like explosions, exactly like before a controlled demolition.. and exactly like beams snapping under the load of the top floors collapsing onto the rest of the building..

        2) It collapsed exactly as it would in a controlled demolition. But also like it would in the official scenario

        3) No skyscraper besides that one has ever collapsed, besides due to controlled demolition. But then nobody has been flying large airplanes into skyscrapers of that sort either.

        4) There is no other explanation for the collapsed that doesnt involve ignoring evidence or simulatimg a poorly designed skyscraper. Except of course for the official explanation that Mr. Conspiracy Theorist is choosing to ignore.

        If you have an alternate theory, you need evidence, facts that distinguish between your theory and the official theory. Noises that sound like explosions aren't necessarily explosions. Orderly-seeming collapses can happen for other reasons than controlled demolition. We don't have a lot of skyscrapers like the old World Trade Center towers and hence, not a lot of collapses about which to make your unwarranted judgment of point 3). And there are other explanations contrary to your assertion of point 4).

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @05:14PM (19 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @05:14PM (#782792)

          Once again, you have an alternative theory. In the official version there were no sounds like explosions. And building 7 did not collapse like in the official version. In fact they stopped the simulation 2 second in once it started diverging from reality so much and did not investigate further.

          Like the other naysayers in this thread you are simply not aware of the official version, let alone the evidence.

          https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/the-official-theory-wtc7 [ae911truth.org]

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 06 2019, @06:34PM (18 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 06 2019, @06:34PM (#782814) Journal

            In the official version there were no sounds like explosions.

            I'm merely assuming you aren't bullshitting us. The point is that the presence of "sounds like explosions" doesn't undermine the official version.

            And building 7 did not collapse like in the official version. In fact they stopped the simulation 2 second in once it started diverging from reality so much and did not investigate further.

            And that's supposed to be relevant why? You still haven't shown a case for the alternatives.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @07:29PM (17 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @07:29PM (#782824)

              Just click the link, it is all described in great detail. The official theory is not what you keep claiming, so it is pointless for me to continue. You are simply un/mis-informed on this topic.

              Somehow I think you have a mental block to receiving this information. It is too scary for some people to consider I guess.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:43PM (16 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:43PM (#782859) Journal
                How about I not click the link and you provide a rational argument with a few facts instead? Couldn't be that hard, right?
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @10:13PM (15 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @10:13PM (#782868)

                  It has already been written up by engineers who studied this and shared at the link. I have nothing to add to their findings. A special grand jury is being, or has been, convened to address their findings (it was approved by the SDNY attorney general last November, dont know how long it takes to begin): https://www.ae911truth.org/grandjury [ae911truth.org]

                  All you are doing is playing ostrich if you care about the topic but dont click the link and read it.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 07 2019, @12:46AM (14 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @12:46AM (#782942) Journal
                    I read a lot about the supposed deficiencies of the official 911 investigation and little of the supposed evidence for "nanothermite" demolition of WTC 7. Your link has met my expectations.
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @03:06AM (8 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @03:06AM (#782989)

                      So you calling the deficiencies "supposed" based on what? Just that you failed to check them for yourself?

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 07 2019, @04:23AM (7 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @04:23AM (#783020) Journal
                        It's typical accusations without substantiation. For example, accusing the computer modeling of being defective even though no case was ever made that the modeling wasn't adequate enough. Claiming that WTC 7 went down with "nanothermite" even though an official investigation found no evidence for such and gave a plausible alternative scenario backed with evidence.

                        And because conspiracy theories are such a profitable cottage industry, I don't find it even a little surprising that there is some group who is convinced that the government didn't investigate thoroughly enough or is covering something up. Those would exist no matter what happened.
                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:37AM (1 child)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:37AM (#783027)

                          accusing the computer modeling of being defective even though no case was ever made that the modeling wasn't adequate enough

                          It seems like you are literally just cognitively blind to the section where they made this case? Here is the case:

                          Because most of the WTC steel was destroyed before it could be inspected, the NIST WTC investigation had to rely almost entirely on computer modeling. The modeling performed by NIST failed — effectively disproving its hypothesis — in two ways:

                          1. It did not replicate the observed structural behavior of the buildings, and

                          2. It required significant manipulation — in other words, applying information known to be factually unsupported — in order to achieve collapse initiation.

                          As discussed in Free-Fall Acceleration, NIST asserted that the three stages of collapse progression it measured for WTC 7 were “consistent with the results of the global collapse analyses discussed in Chapter 12 of NIST NCSTAR 1-9” (where NIST presented the results of its computer model).

                          https://www.ae911truth.org/images/articles/2017/February/Official-Theory-WTC7-5.png [ae911truth.org]

                          However, when we view the model,6 we see — besides the fact that it stops after only two seconds, which is well before the end of the collapse — that it fails to replicate the observed structural behavior in two important ways. First, it fails to show the 2.25 seconds of free fall that NIST finally acknowledged. Second, it shows large deformations of the building’s exterior structure that are not observed in the videos.

                          NIST also had to manipulate its modeling significantly just to get the collapse to initiate. Specifically — in order to make the floor beams under Floor 13 expand and push the critical girder (A2001) off its seat and allegedly trigger a total collapse of the building — NIST took the following steps:

                          1. It ignored the fact that the fire in the northeast section of Floor 12 had burned out over an hour before it supposedly caused the beams under Floor 13 to expand.

                          2. It omitted shear studs on girder A2001 that would have prevented the girder from being pushed off its seat.

                          3. It inexplicably heated the floor beams but not the floor slab above them, thus causing the floor beams, but not the slab, to expand. This caused the shear studs connecting the floor beams and the slab to fail, which allowed the floor beams to move independently of the slab.

                          4. It ignored the fact that the floor beams could expand no more than 5 3/4 inches — less than the 6 1/4 inches required to push the girder off its seat — before shortening, caused by sagging, would overtake expansion.

                          5. It omitted web/flange stiffeners that would have prevented the bottom flange of the girder from folding (even if the beams had somehow expanded 6 1/4 inches).

                          Had NIST modeled WTC 7 accurately, the mechanism that it claimed initiated the collapse would not have been feasible.

                          https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/the-official-theory-wtc7 [ae911truth.org]

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 07 2019, @03:58PM

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @03:58PM (#783217) Journal

                            besides the fact that it stops after only two seconds,

                            A common thing. It becomes a much harder problem to model a building's collapse after the point of initial failure because then you're modeling breakage which is a vastly harder problem than modeling strain that reaches a breaking point. For example, I have a book that has a nice model of a dam failure which models the stresses on the dam to the point where components of the dam would start to slide. It obviously fails as a model after that because the whole thing is a completely different physical system after that. But it does a great job of determining when the point of failure starts.

                            That's the same problem here. They wanted to know what caused the building to collapse, not accurately model the collapse after that point.

                            It ignored the fact that the fire in the northeast section of Floor 12 had burned out over an hour before it supposedly caused the beams under Floor 13 to expand.

                            I glanced at Wikipedia and discovered a couple of interesting things. First, that there was an out of control fire burning for somewhere around seven hours before the building came down. Second, that the building showed various signs of impending structural failure before its collapse (bulging of the building, creaking sounds, some sort of mess in the basement). Third, the building was completely evacuated of firefighters almost two hours before its collapse because of those warning signs.

                            That last point indicates your above statement is bullshit. There was no way to determine that the fire had "burned out" since no one was there to put it out - going through debris and actually hosing down the hot spots. Fires can still burn while appearing from a distance to be "burned out". And the heat doesn't go away. That would still be present even if things happened as you say.

                            And of course, there's the ongoing out of control fire and evidence of building failure that gets ignored. I notice elsewhere someone elsewhere in the discussion termed this a "furniture fire" [soylentnews.org], as if furniture (and a bunch of diesel fuel!) couldn't burn hot enough to undermine steel.

                            It omitted shear studs on girder A2001 that would have prevented the girder from being pushed off its seat.

                            [...]

                            It ignored the fact that the floor beams could expand no more than 5 3/4 inches — less than the 6 1/4 inches required to push the girder off its seat — before shortening, caused by sagging, would overtake expansion.

                            [...]

                            It omitted web/flange stiffeners that would have prevented the bottom flange of the girder from folding (even if the beams had somehow expanded 6 1/4 inches).

                            These three are most of the impossible claims with no justification for why they're supposed to be impossible. The obvious rebuttal is the building collapsed of something. You being wrong is just as valid a reason as controlled demolition in the continuing absence of evidence. So an alternate explanation here is that the stiffeners, shear studs, etc were insufficient and the floor beams did indeed flex that extra half an inch contrary to your claim.

                            It inexplicably heated the floor beams but not the floor slab above them, thus causing the floor beams, but not the slab, to expand. This caused the shear studs connecting the floor beams and the slab to fail, which allowed the floor beams to move independently of the slab.

                            Differential heating is not a stretch here. The floor beams would heat up and expand first, both because they're closer to the fire and have better heat conductivity.

                            Had NIST modeled WTC 7 accurately, the mechanism that it claimed initiated the collapse would not have been feasible.

                            Unless, of course, you're wrong here. Then it would have shown the collapse was feasible.

                            What's really telling here is that there's no reason for why anyone in the implied conspiracy would want to take down WTC 7 via secret demolition. The building was already a total loss from seven hours of uncontrolled fire. Insurance money was guaranteed (and was already more than ample from the initial collapses). The two towers dropping provided all the propaganda value that a false flag operation would need (few people even knew that other buildings were lost at the time). The only people who need to take down WTC 7 in this way are the conspiracy theorists!

                            And on that last point, it's worth noting that the 911 conspiracy theories have evolved to this point as the old ones were proven false. I read sites like this one [debunking911.com] that shows a lot of ongoing deception (such as taking single words like "pull" out of context). I think this sums my view of your current efforts:

                            Do the conspiracy theorist leaders have one shred of REAL evidence of explosives or anything else which could take down the buildings? Air samples with trace explosive chemicals in it? A memo like the Downing Street memo? A whistleblower who was in on the planning maybe? None of that involves the so called "whisked away steel". They have nothing. They're left to scour the internet for the slightest mistake made by anyone on that horrific, chaotic day. They're left destroying peoples' lives by suggesting innocent people are involved in mass murders.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:42AM (4 children)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:42AM (#783030)

                          I am sorry to say you have been showing all the evidence of this the entire thread:

                          When a person expects certain things to happen, he/she tends to block out other possibilities. This can lead to inattentional blindness.
                          [...]
                          Because of expectations, experts are more prone to inattentional blindness than beginners. An expert knows what to expect when certain situations arise. Therefore, that expert will know what to look for. This could cause that person to miss out on other important details that he/she may not have been looking for.

                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inattentional_blindness#Expectation_2 [wikipedia.org]

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 07 2019, @06:54AM (3 children)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @06:54AM (#783069) Journal

                            I am sorry to say you have been showing all the evidence of this the entire thread:

                            Exactly. I've played this game before. If you had real evidence, you wouldn't be dwelling on minutia and unprovable claims about eyewitness accounts, floor beams and girders that supposedly can just move so, and supposed flaws in simulation programs outside the scope of the simulation (it's common for structural engineering simulations to break down once things start to break - but those programs are still viable right to the point where the breaking starts). The problem with this is that you don't actually have evidence - you have a narrative (a shifting narrative that has evolved considerably since 2001). And the collapse did happen.

                            I think it more likely that you are simply wrong in your assertions than that there is yet another elaborate conspiracy involving Middle East terrorists, US government officials, and the owner of the WTC who apparently wanted more insurance money than just dropping the two towers would provide.

                            The amateur psychoanalysis is a typical response - again conveniently indistinguishable from someone who did due diligence and is tired of the games.

                            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:17AM (2 children)

                              by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:17AM (#783076)

                              Ive seen this before too, nothing will make you consider the arguments and evidence until someone who is an authority figure to you says it. If i presented the NIST model as someone besides the official one you would say that was bs, etc.

                              • (Score: 4, Insightful) by aristarchus on Monday January 07 2019, @10:02AM

                                by aristarchus (2645) on Monday January 07 2019, @10:02AM (#783104) Journal

                                Khallow, in his element! Shaka, and the wall fell! Bad faith and conspiracy theories just kinda go together.

                              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 07 2019, @01:48PM

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @01:48PM (#783163) Journal

                                Ive seen this before too, nothing will make you consider the arguments and evidence until someone who is an authority figure to you says it.

                                Guess that's not you. Come back with evidence and then we'll have something to talk about.

                                If i presented the NIST model as someone besides the official one you would say that was bs, etc.

                                You aren't though. You aren't presenting anything.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @03:22AM (4 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @03:22AM (#782993)

                      Did you look into the evidence that people heard explosions, when the official report denies there were any such sounds heard (whether actually due to explosions or not)?

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 07 2019, @04:35AM (3 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @04:35AM (#783025) Journal
                        What of it? I'm not going to dig into a he said/she said situation. If you had more than unreliable eyewitness reports, you'd have mentioned that instead.
                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:44AM (2 children)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:44AM (#783032)

                          Here you go, sound of explosions on video:

                          https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/videos/video/12-wtc-7-sound-evidence-for-explosions [ae911truth.org]

                          It is all on the site. They were very thorough.

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 07 2019, @01:45PM (1 child)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @01:45PM (#783161) Journal
                            Where is the relevant video? I'm not waiting through 10 minutes of propaganda.
                            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:26PM

                              by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:26PM (#783311)

                              See, you'll just dismiss anything. It isnt ten minutes of propoganda, it is ten minutes of video explaining the evidence. Whatever, if it ends up mattering at all, it'll be your loss.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @08:37PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @08:37PM (#782833)

          you can watch molten steel pouring out the side of the main towers like a fucking foundry! i guess the jet fuel did that?

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:48PM (2 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:48PM (#782861) Journal
            What floor does this alleged molten steel come from? Wouldn't be much point to setting up large thermite devices on a floor getting hit by a plane since they're going to get knocked all over the place by the impact (and the fire from the plane will melt the steel more efficiently anyway).
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @10:52PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @10:52PM (#782889)

              I think the new idea is there were stragically placed fuel tanks for the backup generators filled with some sort of explosive additive. So with a big enough fire the buildings would be demolished.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:26PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:26PM (#783251)

              it's been a long time since i've watched the videos but i want to say it was further down than the plane impacts. don't take my word for it. just go watch the videos. it's not caused by diesel or jet fuel and i don't think the thermate (not thermite) charges are all that big or apt to falloff the steel columns.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:21AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @09:21AM (#783090)

          In regard to point 3. My Conspiracy Theory friend forwarded me a 9/11 conspiracy article about a tall building in Europe that had a fire and didn't collapse. They claimed it was proof that the 9/11 towers shouldn't have collapsed from fire.
          I pointed out that ALL of the steel supporting the floors and outer walls DID collapse despite being held up by a concrete stairwell/elevator shaft in the center. He just went 'oh' and retreated back into his conspiracy world. The guy is a freakin' Engineer too... but he's of Eastern European heritage which from my experience seem to be more prone to conspiracy theories.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @11:00PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @11:00PM (#782630)
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:08AM (13 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:08AM (#782645)

      Seismic activity from the falling towers was sufficient to weaken the roof into collapsing from from all the AC and electrical equipment up there. Damn thing just wasn't that strong. Nothing mysterious there. The only mystery is the who-done-it. That's still top secret. And simple insurance fraud is entirely plausible.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:18AM (12 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:18AM (#782648)

        Source for the siesmic activty, roof collapse explanation? That is not the official one, so strange how you call it "nothing mysterious". And if all you needed to do is collapse the roof to cleanly demolish a building why isnt that the normal procedure?

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @04:12AM (11 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @04:12AM (#782670)

          Shit construction. What can I say? The damn thing fell, didn't it? And the official conspiracy theory? Please! The insurance fraud will never become "official", any more than the official Benghazi story will reveal the true crime of state department weapon sales to terrorists in Syria through Libya (or what was left of it). That shit's classified, brother. All we can do is assume the most plausible.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:24AM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @09:24AM (#782709)

            So no source?

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 06 2019, @04:29PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 06 2019, @04:29PM (#782776) Journal
              As if you had to ask?
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @12:46AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @12:46AM (#782941)

              Where are your sources for your doubts? Government conspiracy theorists feeding the wire services? My sources are my eyes and ears, what's yours? your butt?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:11AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @04:11AM (#783014)

                The point is that you have your own unique alternative theory, like everyone else in this thread apparently. It is not the official one. The government explanation disagrees with your theory. But everything is totally non-mysterious I guess.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @12:54AM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @12:54AM (#782948)

              So no source?

              Are you a fucking idiot or what? We know how and why the buildings fell. The only unknown to the public is the financing and internal complicity. Save your bullshit for Infowars!

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:12AM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:12AM (#783045)

                Yep, I'm a fucking idiot. I've heard like 5 different theories of why wtc 7 collapsed in this thread alone, all different from the government explanation.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:59AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @06:59AM (#783071)

                  Just proves the government is wrong, or more likely lying. They had a war and domestic power grab to sell. I don't even give a shit anymore. The sale was made, and here we are.

                  Find out who financed the deed and who got rich. Let's hope these docs help us reach that goal.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 07 2019, @04:01PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @04:01PM (#783219) Journal
                  I agree. You are a fucking idiot. It's not our job to come up with the one, true explanation for the 911 attacks and why what buildings came down like they did.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @08:27PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @08:27PM (#782829)

            yeah, except they won awards for it's construction b/c it was designed to take jet impacts and what not.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:04AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @07:04AM (#783074)

              And Obama won a Peace Prize. What are you trying to say?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:30PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @05:30PM (#783252)

                so many suck ass slaves paying taxes and making excuses for their masters like fucking cowards.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @02:04AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @02:04AM (#782660)

      According to a doc cited in that steemit link posted by another AC:

      https://steemit.com/thedarkoverlord/@thedarkoverlord/9-11-papers-megaleak-layer-1-checkpoint-03-04-05-06-and-07-cyber-cash-for-cyber-cache [steemit.com]

      Search for "gasoline". Right below that comment are images of scanned docs citing that tower 7 had large (and per the citation, "unsafe") diesel fuel storage tanks installed in it. including a 6000 gallon fuel tank installed on the 23rd floor next to an elevator shaft.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @02:41AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @02:41AM (#782661)

        Placed to have the building collapse into its own footprint though?

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday January 07 2019, @04:38AM (1 child)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 07 2019, @04:38AM (#783028) Journal

          Placed to have the building collapse into its own footprint though?

          Where else is it going to collapse? Center of gravity is inside the building after all.

          • (Score: 2) by exaeta on Monday January 07 2019, @03:05PM

            by exaeta (6957) on Monday January 07 2019, @03:05PM (#783195) Homepage Journal
            Some people seem to think because a tower of cans would collapse on its side that a large building would do the same. It shows a lack of understanding of physics.
            --
            The Government is a Bird
  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @11:05PM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05 2019, @11:05PM (#782632)

    Does anyone have a link to these documents yet?

    Layer 1
    Layer_1.container Decryption Key: uS\gY(oY@(5e=#(8e2nXOZ:9.DqK#abx>v4YUPqlb*~`d$76?VFZPN0Bh2\6vT=N

    If you still haven't downloaded all the 9/11 Archive with the Layer containers, the torrent link is below:

    9/11 Archive
    : " rel="url2html-16061">https://anonfiles.com/6fx7q6pfb6/911_Archive.zip_torrent
    SHA1 HASH: F4C18CF980648E9FBDAC55952F5F3485DBBA95F9

    Checkpoint 05
    LINK: " rel="url2html-16061">https://anonfiles.com/Vds5Aapaba/Checkpoint_05_zip
    SHA-1 HASH: C00B9117F08EEBF261DA32DDAB8EC97AF382CE8F

    Checkpoint 06
    LINK: " rel="url2html-16061">https://anonfiles.com/c2t6A2p6b2/Checkpoint_06_zip
    SHA-1 HASH: 42C3DE7CAE57702A1ADA84FC396B7EAEBA84B925

    Checkpoint 07
    LINK: " rel="url2html-16061">https://anonfiles.com/V4v1A8p9b2/Checkpoint_07_zip
    SHA-1 HASH: 3D76610FECCF093250F39354DB70A704D47D241C

    Instructions to decrypt the containers - Download Veracrypt and use the decryption key above.

    If you don't have our previously released 'Preview_Documents.container' key, it is here: *CZ4=I{YZ456zGecgg9/cCz|zNP5bZ,nCvJqDZKrq@v?O5V$FezCNs26CD;e:%N^

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:05AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @12:05AM (#782644)

      Veracrypt, really?

      Now we know this is but a guerilla marketing campaign.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @01:36AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 06 2019, @01:36AM (#782656)
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @10:07AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 07 2019, @10:07AM (#783105)

    Could we not have a nice and sane aristarchus submission about Louis C.K., instead? Asking for a friend.

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